• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Rumor - Steam to Allow Game Borrowing

Status
Not open for further replies.

Almighty

Member
How exactly is this different from GS/Walmart/BB/etc from selling games? In the Xbox One world, they are rival digital stores.

Valve made nothing off that game for one as last I heard Steamworks is free to use. So if it doesn't get sold though the Steam Store Valve get nothing. Microsoft gets royalties on every new game sold for their consoles regardless of where it is sold.

Second does Microsoft let me buy 360/One games via the competition? The way I see it Greenman Gaming to Steam is more like Sony to Microsoft then Wal-mart. So its more like I bought a 360 game via the Playstation Store and Microsoft earned nothing on that purchase, but it still treating me like I bought it directly from them.
 

Ryaaan14

Banned
This will cripple sales. I support devs, but holy shit if I could save some money for life stuff by creating a borrowing circle.
 

NSider

Member
My guess:

Adding a game to your shared library will disable offline access to that title, making "always online" optional. It's a much smarter way to do it.
 

TheD

The Detective
As long as it is not forced onto everyone by needing you to be online to just run steam games (due to needing to keep tabs on who has what game, like the xbone), but opt in.
Then it seems cool.
 
D

Deleted member 1235

Unconfirmed Member
Oh look, taking a digital copy of a game and giving it MORE freedom.

Are you paying attention Microsoft?

I'm all for bagging the Xbone, however, they announced and led the way the with this feature.
 

Cynar

Member
This will cripple sales. I support devs, but holy shit if I could save some money for life stuff by creating a borrowing circle.

Not really. It could also drive sales by allowing people to experience more games. There are games I wouldn't buy unless I could try it first, this would allow me to do that. :)
 

Grief.exe

Member
This will cripple sales. I support devs, but holy shit if I could save some money for life stuff by creating a borrowing circle.

A lot of Valve's business model is getting people invested into the ecosystem.

If a pirate just wants to pirate the game to try it, why not just borrow it from their friend? Its easier to download, faster, and completely legal.

Then that pirate is invested in the ecosystem, rather then looking in from the outside.
 

Krilekk

Banned
There is something ironic bout all of this

No, it's pure hypocrisy is what it is. Seeing how Steam gets all the praise since forever for doing exactly what X1 does while MS gets shat upon is beyond ridiculous. Steam prices are just as terribad for half the games as Xbox Live prices. They both have great sales. They both suck for new releases (Steam prices offer 10 % off and still are worse than Amazon and other retailers).
 

Martian

Member
Great new is true, doesnt really matter if its not.
Its just a shame i cant gift anyone my copy of the Witcher 2 for example, because my pc cant handle it

But no way Steam will allow for people to trade in their games. What if I buy a game for 2,50 during the sales, and trade it in for 15 in credit.
Although they could make it so that you cant trade in games bought during sales
 

Krilekk

Banned
Great new is true, doesnt really matter if its not.
Its just a shame i cant gift anyone my copy of the Witcher 2 for example, because my pc cant handle it

But no way Steam will allow for people to trade in their games. What if I buy a game for 2,50 during the sales, and trade it in for 15 in credit.
Although they could make it so that you cant trade in games bought during sales

They will have to offer it or close Steam in some EU markets. And what difference do sales make. I can buy stuff cheap and sell it on eBay for more. Of course you won't be able to trade in directly at Valve like Gamestop, that would be stupid.
 

Pranay

Member
Not really. It could also drive sales by allowing people to experience more games. There are games I wouldn't buy unless I could try it first, this would allow me to do that. :)

Their are game demos for this.

This policy will most likly flop on both xone and steam or many publishers wont get on board with this
 
Oh look, taking a digital copy of a game and giving it MORE freedom.

Are you paying attention Microsoft?

Heh, this is pretty amazing.

Anyway, surprised that Steam would be taking any tips from Microsoft's Family Share policy.

Hopefully it becomes standard across all digital platforms. Would be great if you could just add someone to your friends list and lend them a game without any hassle. Naturally,t he game wouldn't be available for you to play while it was 'lent out', that would wide open to abuse.

Well done for pushing the boundary of how digital content works MS.
 

derFeef

Member
Heh, this is pretty amazing.

Anyway, surprised that Steam would be taking any tips from Microsoft's Family Share policy.

Hopefully it becomes standard across all digital platforms. Would be great if you could just add someone to your friends list and lend them a game without any hassle. Naturally,t he game wouldn't be available for you to play while it was 'lent out', that would wide open to abuse.

Well done for pushing the boundary of how digital content works MS.

And everyone will remember it as a Steam thing first, does not matter :)
But this is good for us.

Gabe Newell - the original consumer champion.

See ;)
 
Heh, this is pretty amazing.

Anyway, surprised that Steam would be taking any tips from Microsoft's Family Share policy.

Hopefully it becomes standard across all digital platforms. Would be great if you could just add someone to your friends list and lend them a game without any hassle. Naturally,t he game wouldn't be available for you to play while it was 'lent out', that would wide open to abuse.

Well done for pushing the boundary of how digital content works MS.
This is probably inspired by the EU ruling, not MS. If they took the cue indeed from MS, then Valve worked really fast and smart.
 

IMGF

Neo Member
I'm pretty sure the only reason people are praising Steam and not giving credit to MS is simply the fact that MS has been so incredibly counter productive in its marketing push, that it just got lost in the shitstorm.
 

Cynar

Member
Their are game demos for this.

This policy will most likly flop on both xone and steam or many publishers wont get on board with this

Not all games have demos.

I'm pretty sure the only reason people are praising Steam and not giving credit to MS is simply the fact that MS has been so incredibly counter productive in its marketing push, that it just got lost in the shitstorm.

Also because it probably has more to do with the EU than MS.
 
And everyone will remember it as a Steam thing first, does not matter :)
But this is good for us.

Execution is key and while MS have blundered the message, it will ultimately come down to whoever puts out the game share/borrowing first, will be remembered as the one who changed how digital content works.

This is probably inspired by the EU ruling, not MS. If they took the cue indeed from MS, then Valve worked really fast and smart.

That was selling licences wasn't it? Game borrowing might be linked to that I guess, but I expect there's been industry wide rumblings about doing this for some time too...

Anyway, whoever gets there first will be awarded the praise for changing how digital content works. Brave new world and so on.
 
No, it's pure hypocrisy is what it is. Seeing how Steam gets all the praise since forever for doing exactly what X1 does while MS gets shat upon is beyond ridiculous. Steam prices are just as terribad for half the games as Xbox Live prices. They both have great sales. They both suck for new releases (Steam prices offer 10 % off and still are worse than Amazon and other retailers).

And that lone positive for the Xbone is surrounded by a huge cloud of all the things that makes me stay away from it.
 

Ziltoid

Unconfirmed Member
Sounds good, as long as this won't compromise the offline mode.

My guess is you'll have to be online in order for someone to borrow your game, and they'll be kicked out of it if you are offline for a set amount of time.
 

Krilekk

Banned
Sounds good, as long as this won't compromise the offline mode.

My guess is you'll have to be online in order for someone to borrow your game, and they'll be kicked out of it if you are offline for a set amount of time.

Probably 24 hours. LMAO
 
Sounds good, as long as this won't compromise the offline mode.

My guess is you'll have to be online in order for someone to borrow your game, and they'll be kicked out of it if you are offline for a set amount of time.

Will it require a 24hr check like MS? I think there's way of doing it that don't have such a draconian requirement, like taking the licence away from the person whose lent it and not allowing them access to that game until they go online and receive the licence back.
 

Ziltoid

Unconfirmed Member
Probably 24 hours. LMAO
Which would be fine, great even. The point I was making was that such a system would allow game borrowing while still allowing the original owner of the game license to play the game offline should his/her internet go out.
 

Almighty

Member
Sounds good, as long as this won't compromise the offline mode.

My guess is you'll have to be online in order for someone to borrow your game, and they'll be kicked out of it if you are offline for a set amount of time.

Yep it is why the details for me will make or break this thing.(if this turns out to be true) No offline or having it do hourly/daily checks and this gets a resounding meh like the Xbox One sharing plan.

Of course I can't think of anyway for them to have this work offline and not have people abuse it. Maybe if once you let a friend borrow a game it gets taken out of your library. As well as having a time limit on how long the game can be lent out for(say a week or a month) might work.
 

Addnan

Member
They could do it like this.

Friend wants to borrow a game from me, we both have to be online. He takes said game, it gets put on hold/hidden from my library. I can go offline mode, but it still won't let me play it. The person borrowing the game needs to be online to play. The only way to get the game is to go into online mode and retrieve it. Wouldn't need 24/7 online, just when you want to get your game back.
 
This adds value to the games. Adding value to the products you sell is a good business practice.

Unless you happen to be MS.

But then I don't blame people for being angry, MS completely blundered the message and sent out all the wrong signals. Had they said outright that we're going to allow digital game lending and sweetened the pit a little mor by saying they'd offer more competitive pricing, I think the backlash wouldn't have been as aggressive as it has been.
 

TheD

The Detective
Which would be fine, great even. The point I was making was that such a system would allow game sharing while still allowing the original owner of the game license to play the game offline should his/her internet go out.

And that is the reason why this should be much better than what the xbone is doing.
 

Grief.exe

Member
Unless you happen to be MS.

But then I don't blame people for being angry, MS completely blundered the message and sent out all the wrong signals. Had they said outright that we're going to allow digital game lending and sweetened the pit a little mor by saying they'd offer more competitive pricing, I think the backlash wouldn't have been as aggressive as it has been.

I don't think even they had their policies ironed out when they announced.
 
And that is the reason why this should be much better than what the xbone is doing.

That's not game lending, that's game sharing and that won't be happening.

It'll work exactly how physical media works now. You lend someone the game disc, they play it and return it but with licences instead of a disc.

The 24hr check in requirement is where MS stumble and it will be interesting to see how Steam tackle it, if it's not as draconian as Microsoft's, hopefully MS will look to it and change their own requirements accordingly.

I don't think even they had their policies ironed out when they announced.

comes back to blundering the message. They should have kept quiet until they had it all worked out. Talking about it before anything was finalised was pretty stupid of them.
 

Alx

Member
I don't think even they had their policies ironed out when they announced.

They're probably not ironed out yet... but lending was mentioned from the very beginning.
When you think about it, they gave most of the info at the same time but didn't stress anything, which probably was their mistake : everybody ran with the used games info, and overlooked everything else.
 

Ziltoid

Unconfirmed Member
And that is the reason why this should be much better than what the xbone is doing.
The downside is that the one borrowing the game would get the short end of the stick by being kicked out of the game after the owner goes offline, but I don't think we can have a system for borrowing digital games that'll please everyone.
 

FeiRR

Banned
If a pirate just wants to pirate the game to try it, why not just borrow it from their friend? Its easier to download, faster, and completely legal.
Because his friends are also pirates. People tend to socialize in their own social circles.
 

TheD

The Detective
That's not game lending, that's game sharing and that won't be happening.

It'll work exactly how physical media works now. You lend someone the game disc, they play it and return it but with licences instead of a disc.

The 24hr check in requirement is where MS stumble and it will be interesting to see how Steam tackle it, if it's not as draconian as Microsoft's, hopefully MS will look to it and change their own requirements accordingly.

? What Ziltoid described is having to be online for someone else to play your game (if you can play the same game when they are or not does not matter) and then get kicked off if you want to play or if you go offline.
That is 100% workable and would not stop offline mode (and is how MS should of done it on the xbone).

No, it's pure hypocrisy is what it is. Seeing how Steam gets all the praise since forever for doing exactly what X1 does while MS gets shat upon is beyond ridiculous. Steam prices are just as terribad for half the games as Xbox Live prices. They both have great sales. They both suck for new releases (Steam prices offer 10 % off and still are worse than Amazon and other retailers).

But steam is unlikely to have a mandatory 24 hour check no matter if you want to lend your games or not!
 
Execution is key and while MS have blundered the message, it will ultimately come down to whoever puts out the game share/borrowing first, will be remembered as the one who changed how digital content works.
Yup. I think MS snuck that in after the backlash. Otherwise they would have either talked about it during the unveiling or Phil Harrison would have mentioned it afterwards, considering he did not hesitate to talk about every other "feature".

That's probably why Nelson is still "rounding up" the details, it is probably not even implemented yet. And even if MS gets it out first, we still need to see what the limitations are. They could easily fuck it up again with another stupid restriction or allowing publishers to restrict it.

Then Steam would win anyway.
 

Alx

Member
Yup. I think MS snuck that in after the backlash. Otherwise they would have either talked about it during the unveiling or Phil Harrison would have mentioned it afterwards, considering he did not hesitate to talk about every other "feature".

I had to check again to be sure, but they did publish a description of their whole DRM policies on June 7th, before E3, including sharing to 10 "family members" on other locations.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/07/xbox-one-drm/1
For families who game, there's even better news: up to ten Xbox Live accounts can be tied together as belonging to family members, and all installed games will be accessible to all family members regardless of location. It even seems possible for two or more family members to be playing the same game at the same time on different consoles - despite buying just one copy of the title.

Also there is a capture of the E3 conference showing that sharing was quickly mentioned at their show (it was only a single slide though). *edit : or maybe that one was about sharing gold with multiple accounts on the same console...
 
I had to check again to be sure, but they did publish a description of their whole DRM policies on June 7th, before E3, including sharing to 10 "family members" on other locations.

http://www.bit-tech.net/news/gaming/2013/06/07/xbox-one-drm/1


Also there is a capture of the E3 conference showing that sharing was quickly mentioned at their show (it was only a single slide though). *edit : or maybe that one was about sharing gold with multiple accounts on the same console...
Yes of course, I meant they quickly introduced this feature after the backlash. They didn't talk about this feature at all after the unveiling in May, but they did talk about sharing gold and Phil Harrison talked about how you can log in into another console and access your library etc.

Seems like most policies were set in stone before the unveiling and they simply added the family thing after the initial backlash to calm people down.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
You only need to be online when you want to declare you are done with the game. You don't need to check in every 24 hours. You can play the game for a month offline for example, and when you are done, you log on, tell steam you are done with the game, inform your bro, and your bro can log on to steam to retrieve his game. A perfect implementation of game sharing/borrowing, IMO.


The person borrowing the game will need to be online so steam can check that they can still borrow it and the owner hasn't asked for it back.

The owner should be able to play offline, but they'd need to recall the game first (which obviously requires the borrower to be online to prevent the playing next time they try)
 

RulkezX

Member
I still can't understand how stuff like this is going to work , it has the potential to kill the industry stone dead.

I have enough people on my Steam/XBL friends lists that I would never have to buy a game again , it at least drastically cut down on my purchases.

I can't help but feel these systems will be a lot more restrictive in their application than people believe , or publishers will need to opt in.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Is there a risk Sony gets left behind with this? They should be able to update their digital games to support sharing based on friends (owner + 1 other would be roughly in line with their current 2 game sharing limit), but what about their physical discs?

Are people's friends geographically far enough apart these days that digital sharing is more convenient than handing over a disc?

I guess ultimately they at least offer the choice - you'll be able to go full digital if you want.


I still can't understand how stuff like this is going to work , it has the potential to kill the industry stone dead.

I have enough people on my Steam/XBL friends lists that I would never have to buy a game again , it at least drastically cut down on my purchases.

I can't help but feel these systems will be a lot more restrictive in their application than people believe , or publishers will need to opt in.

It is interesting. The argument for is that it is mimicking sharing a physical disc, and still only one of you can play at a time (so for new games it may not impact them so much because you'll all want to be playing). For long tail/older games its less of a financial impact on publishers anyway, and might be a good way to get consumers to try out games and then buy into new ones in the series?

The argument against is that in the Internet age people will simply set up sharing circles to exploit the system which they wouldn't do with physical discs due to postage costs and time etc.
 

DocSeuss

Member
I'm guessing they're going to be like "so anyone who gets the game loaned to them won't get it counted towards their badge XP, and they won't get Steam achievements." It looks as if the actual owner of the game can boot you whenever they want to play as well, which seems fair. Obviously, it can't happen offline--which would likely make it MORE restrictive than the Xbox One's policies. I'm betting that there'll be an error message that'll say something like "if you want to play this game offline, you'll have to buy your own copy!"

That would be nice.

Not nearly as nice as being able to sell our games on the Steam market, setting our own prices, allowing people to buy games from us at whatever values we want.

I can't believe that the response we're getting to this is "what if Steam let me trade in my games, even at crappy prices?" No, what Steam should be doing (hi, EU ruling!), is facilitating (not ALLOWING, but ASSISTING) in customers reselling the games they bought at whatever prices they feel like. It's not a privilege to sell what you own--it's a right.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom