Support NeoGAF

Atheerios · Jun 23, 2017

As some of you may know, the online mode update for NBA Playgrounds was supposed to come to the Switch some weeks ago, but until know we haven't received anything.

Today the dev has finally provided more information about why this is happening, and it doesn't sound good for devs who plan to patch their Switch games:

I don't want to even talk about it. I can't talk about it publicly but I am at wits end. Online has been functional for weeks...

Unfortunately there isn't much update I can provide. There are certain elements of our patch that are absolutely essential but that are out of normal Nintendo guidelines. If Nintendo were to approve the patch it would be released immediately, but we are in the midst of a long process of back-and-forth to get small matters waived. It isn't that we aren't working on this. In fact, getting this relatively simple patch out has consumed more of our time than making further improvements in additions to the game. When I say it is entirely out of her hands I mean that. We were put in a position where we needed to get this game out at the same time as the other consoles and because the platform was so new, it suffered in certain areas. There isn't even a change log at this point - is the same patch that has been sitting there for weeks

An example of what is holding up the approval process:

The simplest one is patch size. There are certain size requirements that you can't exceed in a patch. It took us almost 3 weeks to get an exception to allow our patch to be larger than the normal size. And the reason it is larger is due to the technology we are using and is beyond our control. In fact, we proposed reducing the entire file size of the game from seven gigs to 3 1/2 gigs but because the platform is so new it doesn't support it now and that can't be done

About reducing file size:

[Nintendo] won't allow it initially as their system doesn't support it. From our end it's already done.
Once it's supported we will be able to do it.

Quotes from: https://www.reddit.com/r/NintendoSw...laygrounds_update_from_developer_spoiler_not/

And this is not the first time this happened, as the dev of Shifty has also complained that his patch wasn't approved by Nintendo because of the size.

Because of this, I wouldn't expect big post-launch support on Switch games, and this is just unacceptable for a company like Nintendo.

EDarkness · Jun 23, 2017

Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

darkstar0155 · Jun 23, 2017

if true that's stupid and crap from Nintendo.

RulkezX · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

Stevey · Jun 23, 2017

Why would they do this?

maxcriden · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

Ordinarily I would agree with you on this, but in this case if accurate the ability to fix issues with a game is being hindered and that is not a good thing for the end user.

ElectricBlanketFire · Jun 23, 2017

So that explains the typo in Kamiko's opening.

moltonasty · Jun 23, 2017

That's what happens when you release a system with a 32gb hard drive in the year 2017.

Macho Madness · Jun 23, 2017

If it only has 32GB, I see why they're being strict.

But it shouldn't have shipped with just 32GB.

Plinko · Jun 23, 2017

I just don't understand this from Nintendo's perspective.

EDarkness · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 anymore.

Patches don't need to be huge. Some level of compression is needed. They even say that they could get the size down from 7gb to 3gb. That means there's an insane amount of bloat in there.

RinNowaru · Jun 23, 2017

Don't release broken games.,

Drackhorn · Jun 23, 2017

If true that would be crap and not a good sign for future thirdparty games.

Chindogg · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

NBA Playgrounds is missing a full fucking feature that they're trying to patch in.

It's dumb that Nintendo's limiting patch sizes, but even dumber for devs to release an incomplete game.

AquaWateria · Jun 23, 2017

Macho Madness said:
If it only has 32GB, I see why they're being strict.

But it shouldn't have shipped with just 32GB.

It would of increased the price of the Switch which would also be a bad thing.

kunonabi · Jun 23, 2017

Stevey said:
Why would they do this?

Could it have something to do with going with cartridges for games and SD cards for memory?

ViolentP · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

You speak as if large patches are somehow out of design.

Hattori · Jun 23, 2017

I'm curious as to why they didn't just delay so they can ship a finished product.

BitStyle · Jun 23, 2017

That's unnecessarily strict of Nintendo, especially as a guideline to force indies to be beholden to.
I wonder if it is a matter of the 32 gigs of on-board flash the system has that is their main reason for this guideline

TheGamingBox · Jun 23, 2017

Macho Madness said:
If it only has 32GB, I see why they're being strict.

But it shouldn't have shipped with just 32GB.

the shortages for the switch would be even bigger if they shipped with more than 32GB storage

ElectricBlanketFire · Jun 23, 2017

RinNowaru said:
Don't release broken games.,

Which games are broken on the Switch?

RulkezX · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Patches don't need to be huge. Some level of compression is needed. They even say that they could get the size down from 7gb to 3gb. That means there's an insane amount of bloat in there.

Yeah ok.

GAF and it's tech knowledge to the rescue as usual. Fucking lazy devs.

Marmaladefire · Jun 23, 2017

I still cannot believe this system shipped with 32gb

Hattori said:
I'm curious as to why they didn't just delay so they can ship a finished product.

We were put in a position where we needed to get this game out at the same time as the other consoles and because the platform was so new, it suffered in certain areas

I could totally be wrong, but if it released later, would it be considered a "port" and therefore need new Switch only content to even get it released right now?

heybrian · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

I agree. It'd be different on a system more robust and guaranteed to have a lot of space. For the switch they need to keep developers expectations in check and make sure they're not putting up crazy big patches that eat hard drive space.

PopeReal · Jun 23, 2017

I play 2k on PS4 and the patches have been fucking gigantic. Eventually I had to erase the game and download it again just so it didn't take 15 minutes to load. No exaggeration.

If this is what Nintendo is trying to prevent then I am ok with it.

Billfisto · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

They may not be intentionally inflating their patch sizes, but they have no real reason to put any effort into limiting their patch sizes, either.

Half the time it feels like I'm redownloading an entire game just to change some text strings and numbers.

Jetku · Jun 23, 2017

This is ridiculous of Nintendo on a modern console, but at the same time, good on them for holding a developer/publisher's feet to the fire for releasing an unfinished game. Even if they are doing it in a very Nintendo-like way...

Chindogg · Jun 23, 2017

ElectricBlanketFire said:
Which games are broken on the Switch?

NBA Playgrounds is straight up missing features from the release version, along with having some minor bugs.

FX-GMC · Jun 23, 2017

RinNowaru said:
Don't release broken games.,

Also don't bother providing free DLC for your Switch game. Can't have large updates now.

Koren · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

Their companies may be prone to release an unsufficiently tested game and rely on patches, though.

And I wouldn't be so sure about developpers being that great at keeping code small.

There's a middle ground to find, but I'm not convinced it's such a bad idea per se.

udivision · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Patches don't need to be huge. Some level of compression is needed. They even say that they could get the size down from 7gb to 3gb. That means there's an insane amount of bloat in there.

Theyre talking about the size of the entire game, and rhe switch doesn't allow them to change the game's size.

FutureLarking · Jun 23, 2017

ViolentP said:
You speak as if large patches are somehow out of design.

A lot of them are not exactly necessary, but symptoms of how the engine or resource manager for the game packs files together. The amount of unchanged shit that comes down in some of these patches just because the resources are all bundled together in a single file gets ridiculous. You might only realistically make 100MB of changes (which is excessive unless you're adding new graphical or audio content), but the user still gonna download 1GB+. Wanna change a prebaked shadow map? Redownload the whole level resources for the level with that shadow map because we're all in the same file!

Some games do it better than others... most don't bother to make changes to their code that allow patches to be smaller for either performance or build pipelines reasons.

OrbitalBeard · Jun 23, 2017

Chindogg said:
NBA Playgrounds is missing a full fucking feature that they're trying to patch in.

It's dumb that Nintendo's limiting patch sizes, but even dumber for devs to release an incomplete game.

This is kind of where I'm at regarding this particular title.

It's not a very good policy overall (and will almost certainly cause some big problems in the future if not addressed), but damn, maybe you should release the entire game from the get-go. This is far more than bug fixes.

Instro · Jun 23, 2017

Good thing we have Nintendo to protect us from large patches.

nbnt · Jun 23, 2017

EDarkness said:
Honestly, I don't have a problem with their policy. Devs have been releasing these insanely sized patches for a long time now and they need to cut that down. If it means more manageable patch sizes, then I'm all for it.

Agreed! Why don't Nintendo bring back WiiWare's 40MB limit for digital games while they're at it! Think of how amazing that would be

Father_Brain · Jun 23, 2017

This is very shitty of Nintendo, and all the more reason why my laptop will continue to be my primary gaming platform even after I get a Switch.

Technosteve · Jun 23, 2017

Release full featured games, don't expect a day one patch thats half the size of the game to fix tour rushed timelines. The system by default has limited space.

jonno394 · Jun 23, 2017

Which bit is the "harshly" bit?

QuantumBro · Jun 23, 2017

Oh boy, we're backing in the glory days of 2006 console patching!

Wonder if games will start to lose their crossplay feature if Nintendo puts limits on devs updating their games.

panama chief · Jun 23, 2017

RinNowaru said:
Don't release broken games.,

Not enough people echoing this, so I will. You can't get mad at Nintendo 100% when blame falls on your lap for a rushed product.

Astral Dog · Jun 23, 2017

Makes sense they control this with the already limited memory

Sword Of Doom · Jun 23, 2017

moltonasty said:
That's what happens when you release a system with a 32gb hard drive in the year 2017.

Yeah this being the reason seems likely

TheGamingBox · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

they kinda are, a big reason why patches are so big now, is that they are including all the dlc in them and just making buying the dlc as a unlock

patapuf · Jun 23, 2017

Chindogg said:
NBA Playgrounds is missing a full fucking feature that they're trying to patch in.

It's dumb that Nintendo's limiting patch sizes, but even dumber for devs to release an incomplete game.

It also means that post game support is severely limited since you can't add to games. Want to add a free map? sry patch size too big.

Kouriozan · Jun 23, 2017

Wow.... Don't be surprised if AAA 3rd parties aren't interested in the Switch then.
This is really stupid from Nintendo, we are in 2017 for shame.

Billfisto · Jun 23, 2017

ElectricBlanketFire said:
Which games are broken on the Switch?

Mr. Shifty released pretty broken, too, and ran into the same patching troubles.

Giga_Steve · Jun 23, 2017

I remember the big update for Fast RMX that added fixes and modes. Shinen posted on their Twitter that it was submitted and the update took around 3-4 weeks (I think) finally get released after that.

TheMoon · Jun 23, 2017

Macho Madness said:
If it only has 32GB, I see why they're being strict.

But it shouldn't have shipped with just 32GB.

Wii U was available with 8 or 32GB and they didn't care about patch sizes then.

nbnt said:
Agreed! Why don't Nintendo bring back WiiWare's 40MB limit for digital games while they're at it! Think of how amazing that would be

You're being ridiculous now.

There's a certain midway point where this is very much in the player's interest to have patches be of a reasonable size while also being problematic for devs reliant on certain tools that end up producing large file sizes who then have to jump through hoops.

Retro Edge · Jun 23, 2017

Stevey said:
Why would they do this?

It is Nintendo, that explains all.

Dash_Riprock · Jun 23, 2017

RulkezX said:
Devs aren't inflating patch sizes for shits and giggles. It's not 2006 any more.

This is a company that just released a handheld with a 720p screen...

Support NeoGAF

A couple devs claim Switch patch sizes can be sometimes limited & other hurdles occur

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Unconfirmed Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Neo Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

is responsible for the well-being of this island.

Banned

Banned

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads