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Jinroh
Member
(05-11-2017, 07:43 AM)
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She only appear for a few seconds during the little prologue, that's all.

They just pulled a Star Wars episode 7. You want some background and lore information? Buy the book.
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 07:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tevious

I don't think that was even her. She's uncredited for this film. Her only actual appearance was the photo. The hologram is distorted, so could have been any actress playing her there. The singing voice on the hologram could have been someone else too.



Experimentation leading to the creation of a face hugger egg is vague. We don't know how precisely this works. He's getting these eggs and embryos somehow. Growing them? Harvesting them? I doubt he's building them with his bare hands. That wouldn't make any sense. Where would he be getting the material for that, anyway?



you see noomi during the prologue on youtube
orochi91
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(05-11-2017, 08:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

They're not. There is no queen.

David invents the egg. The Alien lifecycle, according to this movie, literally starts here. With a roomful of eggs handmade by David.

Doesn't that contradict the Xenomorph mural from Prometheus?

Clearly these Xenomorph species/variants exist elsewhere, thus predating David and the events of Prometheus.

Or is Covenant implying that the Egg/Face hugger/chestburster cycle is specifically David's creation, but not the alien species itself?
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 08:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by orochi91

Doesn't that contradict the Xenomorph mural from Prometheus?

Clearly these Xenomorph species/variants exist elsewhere, thus predating David and the events of Prometheus.

Or is Covenant implying that the Egg/Face hugger/chestburster cycle is specifically David's creation, but not the alien species itself?

well david said that he created the perfect organism it could mean that entire cycle is his own idea
SolidChamp
Hydrox Hero
(05-11-2017, 08:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by orochi91

Doesn't that contradict the Xenomorph mural from Prometheus?

Clearly these Xenomorph species/variants exist elsewhere, thus predating David and the events of Prometheus.

Or is Covenant implying that the Egg/Face hugger/chestburster cycle is specifically David's creation, but not the alien species itself?

Shit, I forgot about that mural in Prometheus.

Now I'm just lost. The mural suggested that the Engineers knew about the Xenos long before David planted his flag, so to speak.
Vectorman
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(05-11-2017, 08:12 AM)
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Well what's the point of releasing the prologue and having David talk sorta highly about Shaw in it if she was going to die off-screen anyways? What a bizarre move and waste of a character imo. I get David pulling a bitch move and killing her but to not even understand why he did beside he's a fucked up android seems like lazy script-writing. Pretty much makes Prometheus seem like a good ol' waste of time for everyone involved lol. You probably could have Walter/David dynamic with the baggage of the previous film and it would still work then it sounds like.
Last edited by Vectorman; 05-11-2017 at 08:15 AM.
Tevious
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(05-11-2017, 08:18 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toxa

you see noomi during the prologue on youtube

Just watched it on youtube. Huh, I guess so. Its very dark and the camera mostly focused on David, so maybe I just didn't realize that was really her.
Waldini
Member
(05-11-2017, 08:37 AM)

Originally Posted by SolidChamp

Shit, I forgot about that mural in Prometheus.

Now I'm just lost. The mural suggested that the Engineers knew about the Xenos long before David planted his flag, so to speak.

Well ... about that mural.

That served as an easter-egg. A nod, so to speak, for the die-hard fans. Nothing more.
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 09:04 AM)
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Ridley Scott said that this third film will be called Alien: Awakening and will take place chronologically between the events of Prometheus and Alien: Covenant. This reveals the fate of David and Elizabeth Shaw once they arrive on the planet of the engineers (and future destination of the Covenant ship) and will clarify many question Alien: Covenant


WTF .... ???
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
(05-11-2017, 09:23 AM)
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I'm so glad that Ridley Scott scrapped plans to shoot this in 3D. I would have been irresistibly compelled to see this if he'd followed through.
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 09:28 AM)
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" after landing on the Engineer homeworld with Shaw, David unleashed the "black goo", a bioweapon recovered during the Prometheus mission. This killed the Engineers and allowed David to experiment on local fauna by using the black goo as a catalyst to cross-breed them. The earliest xenomorphs came about after David experimented with a parasitic wasp that laid its eggs inside its prey; upon being born, the larvae ate the prey from the inside out. Elizabeth Shaw became the first victim of a facehugger, murdered by David in what David considers to be a necessary sacrifice."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien:_Covenant#Plot
Bulby
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(05-11-2017, 09:36 AM)
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If David created the facehuggers and the Alien, what was up with the giant squid facehugger and horrible CG mini Alien thing at the end of Prometheus? Or is it all just YOLO now?
Jinroh
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(05-11-2017, 09:38 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toxa

"Quote"

Why are you not giving the source?
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 09:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jinroh

Why are you not giving the source?

english wikipedia
Sidzed2
Member
(05-11-2017, 09:48 AM)
As I said in the reactions thread:

Alien: Covenant is worth watching for some beautiful imagery and a couple of effective scenes, but I strongly suggest that everyone tempers their expectations.

Covenant is not a great movie. It might not even be a good one. It's various shades of mediocre depending on your fondness for Prometheus.

Make no mistake, this is a full-blown Prometheus sequel in the worst ways; some of the dialogue is so on-the-nose its embarrassing, and characters still act in the stupidest of ways.

The biggest problem, apart from the script, is that the tone is all over the place. This is big, operatic, pompous sequel to Prometheus which also wants to be a gritty, stripped down haunted house movie like the original Alien. It tries to have its cake and eat it too but the whole thing feels like an unwieldy Frankenstein's monster.

I wasn't bored, and I enjoyed myself a fair bit, but Covenant is nowhere near as good as it could have been (and, in some scenes, is).

Summary: about as good as Prometheus.
unrealist
Banned
(05-11-2017, 10:02 AM)
If David created the Alien eggs, then how did they end up on the crashed Engineers' ship in the original Alien film? The original Alien film is supposed to be after Covenant.

Did the Engineers know how to make the eggs? Or did they steal it from David sometime between Covenant and Alien?

The Deacon was a result of the black goo + Shaw, without David's interference. So doesn't that mean David was not the inventor of the Xenomorph? He just evolved them. The Engineers must have known the goo can result in modification of DNA and creation of such monsters.
unrealist
Banned
(05-11-2017, 10:05 AM)

Originally Posted by orochi91

Doesn't that contradict the Xenomorph mural from Prometheus?

Clearly these Xenomorph species/variants exist elsewhere, thus predating David and the events of Prometheus.

Or is Covenant implying that the Egg/Face hugger/chestburster cycle is specifically David's creation, but not the alien species itself?

Could it be the Xeno as a race = Queen -> Egg - > Xeno, kinda like Zerglings. Or some other reproduction method?

But David found a way which was Egg -> Facehugger -> Xeno.

Either way, the Engineers must have known about the Xenomorphs or played a part in their creation since the original goo can result in a Deacon?
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 10:24 AM)
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when you start to make movie which try to explain the previous one I think it's time to stop
wesleyshark
Member
(05-11-2017, 10:29 AM)
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Saw it last night. I quite enjoyed it.

My biggest complaint would be the heavy use of CGI over practical effects.
SolidChamp
Hydrox Hero
(05-11-2017, 10:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by wesleyshark

Saw it last night. I quite enjoyed it.

My biggest complaint would be the heavy use of CGI over practical effects.

Yeah, in some scenes with the alien(s) I found it to be distracting.
wesleyshark
Member
(05-11-2017, 10:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by SolidChamp

Yeah, in some scenes with the alien(s) I found it to be distracting.

I just don't find CGI beasts all that frightening haha. Takes me right out of the shock or suspense.

I liked the setup at the end of the film with them using the ship's sections to guide the alien to the docking bay, but the almost liquid-like movements of the alien took the tension out of it.
Yautja_Warrior
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(05-11-2017, 11:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by SolidChamp

Shit, I forgot about that mural in Prometheus.

Now I'm just lost. The mural suggested that the Engineers knew about the Xenos long before David planted his flag, so to speak.

The black goo can make lifeforms and was made by the Engineers, so I bet the Engineers had made alien creatures before this, hence the mural in Promeheus.

My guess is David, having learned a lot about the Engineers in the 10 years he was on the Juggernaut, just figured out how to make them too, maybe he tweaked their formula, to make something close to the Xeno we all know but it's not 100% guaranteed that he was the very first one to do it.
Last edited by Yautja_Warrior; 05-11-2017 at 11:28 AM.
mariachi507
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(05-11-2017, 11:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

1) After 25 years, Fox & Ridley Scott have finally, finally managed to clear the (low-ish) hurdle that is Alien 3. This is a better movie than that was.

This is all I needed to hear and figured this would be a best case scenario for the movie. I'm definitely going to check it out next week.
papercan55
Member
(05-11-2017, 11:46 AM)

Originally Posted by Bulby

If David created the facehuggers and the Alien, what was up with the giant squid facehugger and horrible CG mini Alien thing at the end of Prometheus? Or is it all just YOLO now?

the black liquid was known about before david, the engineers clearly knew it was capable of creating those things, hence the wall mural which showed a deacon(alien at end of prometheus).
David simply took the liquid and is experimenting with it to create various types of other xenomorphs, he wants to become a god himself and create the perfect organism.
The film doesn't really 100% say that david is the first person do create these lifeforms(although david wants to be the first), so they could simply say in the next film that the engineers knew way before david the recipe and sequences needed to create the same xenomorphs or at least very similar.
If the next film really is set between prometheus and covenant then they will probably show you exactly how david learnt the formula to create them, he could have simply found various ways already known and documented by the engineers and spent ten years trying to do the same thing by himself.
I think when ridley scott said in the interview regarding this film that it was david who created the xenomorphs and not the engineers he means that they original planned for this film to have the engineers create them but it made far more sense as a character progression if they showed david wanting to do it himself, i'm not sure he means that david created ALL the xenomorphs but rather the ones we see in covenant.
Last edited by papercan55; 05-11-2017 at 11:54 AM.
Ferr986
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(05-11-2017, 11:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yautja_Warrior

The black goo can make lifeforms and was made by the Engineers, so I bet the Engineers had made alien creatures before this, hence the mural in Promeheus.

My guess is David, having learned a lot about the Engineers in the 10 years he was on the Juggernaut, just figured out how to make them too, maybe he tweaked their formula, to make something close to the Xeno we all know but it's not 100% guaranteed that he was the very first one to do it.

I mean, I didn't watch the movie but the Xeno in here is different. Look at the motherfucker



different arm, legs (more organic, , seems like it's more veiny..)
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 11:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by papercan55

the black liquid was known about before david, the engineers clearly knew it was capable of creating those things, hence the wall mural which showed a deacon(alien at end of prometheus).
David simply took the liquid and is experimenting with it to create various types of other xenomorphs, he wants to become a god himself and create the perfect organism.
The film doesn't really 100% say that david is the first person do create these lifeforms(although david wants to be the first), so they could simply say in the next film that the engineers knew way before david the recipe and sequences needed to create the same xenomorphs or at least very similar.

Either that wasn't the first deacon or there was something quite close in nature to it that had existed before (and it's likeness made into a mural). The "video recordings" that the Prometheus crew find while exploring the Engineer structure give the suggestion that something was hunting them down and picking them off.

As far as the xenomorph goes, it think he is probably the first, given its more organic look. The biomechanical xenomorph from Alien hasn't been created yet. I'm assuming that's what he'll end up working towards once the colony ship reaches its destination.
Last edited by wesleyshark; 05-11-2017 at 12:01 PM.
Alienfan
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(05-11-2017, 12:10 PM)
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1/3 great.2/3 Wtf. 3/3 good

Seriously, what was that middle third of the movie. Hipy David dressed in a cape frolicking around the place. The flute scene, "I'll do the fingering" Weird stuff, not necessarily bad, just weird. No idea how the critics thought the movie was just Alien again, vastly different. I'd compare it more to Alien 3

The Alien looked great, yeah the cgi was obvious in a few spots, but you could tell a lot was practical. Not as pretty as Prometheus, and not as good either, but better than Aliens, Alien 3 and 4. The Horror was done well, I just wish there had been more of it.

I can't state this enough, it's a weird movie, weird movie
Last edited by Alienfan; 05-11-2017 at 12:24 PM.
Toxa
Junior Member
(05-11-2017, 12:14 PM)
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RBaKqOMGPWc

I just can't wait for the covenant honest trailer
Jinroh
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(05-11-2017, 12:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Alienfan

The Alien looked great, yeah the cgi was obvious in a few spots, but you could tell a lot was practical.

A lot?? I'm pretty sure 90% of the shots involving aliens are CGI. I don't remember anything practical about the last two aliens... Even the neomorphs look CGI the whole time.
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 01:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jinroh

A lot?? I'm pretty sure 90% of the shots involving aliens are CGI. I don't remember anything practical about the last two aliens... Even the neomorphs look CGI the whole time.

Definitely seemed to be almost all CGI save for some of the face huggers. I honestly couldn't pull out any practical shots of the xenomorph. It all looked way too clean.
Takyon
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(05-11-2017, 02:10 PM)
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Damn why do the crew keep splitting up. I know if was in that situation, I wouldn't stray 10 meters from my crew.
Also, i found it kinda funny how the crew worked out how the Xenomorph would sprint. It looked a bit Gorilla-ish.
ronaldthump
Member
(05-11-2017, 02:16 PM)
Now we talk about it with no spoiler tags

Fucking third act (the minute) they ran out of the temple, the movie turned into hot garbage. A completely uninteresting and unscary CGI alien zippy do da cartoon.


weird cgi alien staring at people boarding a lander.

lander sequence was shot shaky cam + with ridiculous OTT action and zero tension. Incoherent and dull

Got to the ship. Gay guy no2. hatches but they don't show the death

shower scene is pointless and spoilt by trailer and they don't even bother to show the woman dying.

Then a straight series of doors open/doors close with alien vision......... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

AIRLOCK sequence that is about as exciting as watching paint dry

"Help a girl out line" while B-side ripley with bad hair quips a dumb line

The motion of the CGI Alien was really bad. It just didn't look right.

OMG this movie. Yikes!



CGI alien birthed staring at GOD david was also very bad.
Last edited by ronaldthump; 05-11-2017 at 02:23 PM.
Ninhead
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(05-11-2017, 02:18 PM)
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So is whatshername Ripley's mom?
ronaldthump
Member
(05-11-2017, 02:22 PM)

Originally Posted by Nappuccino

I kinda like it in Aliens 3--the death feel appropriate to the world and life of Ripley. No happy endings.

Shaws death doesn't make much thematic sense with Prometheus.

it makes sense because david is basically nuts.

Aliens 3 killed of 2 of the characters that people care about for no reason; outside of its shit plot (and that Newt got old). horrible movie anyhow
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ninhead

So is whatshername Ripley's mom?

No
Jacce
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(05-11-2017, 02:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ninhead

So is whatshername Ripley's mom?

lol no, what gave you that impression?
ronaldthump
Member
(05-11-2017, 02:25 PM)

Originally Posted by wesleyshark

I just don't find CGI beasts all that frightening haha. Takes me right out of the shock or suspense.

I liked the setup at the end of the film with them using the ship's sections to guide the alien to the docking bay, but the almost liquid-like movements of the alien took the tension out of it.

its like the door sequence from aliens 3 where they try to coral the alien into the chamber where they pour the lead. Open door. Close door. Open Door. Close door. Except boring with no tension - in aliens 3, they had to risk their lives to get the alien in the room.
Last edited by ronaldthump; 05-11-2017 at 02:38 PM.
SolidChamp
Hydrox Hero
(05-11-2017, 02:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

Now we talk about it with no spoiler tags

Fucking third act (the minute) they ran out of the temple, the movie turned into hot garbage. A completely uninteresting and unscary CGI alien zippy do da cartoon.


weird cgi alien staring at people boarding a lander.

lander sequence was shot shaky cam + with ridiculous OTT action and zero tension. Incoherent and dull

Got to the ship. Gay guy no2. hatches but they don't show the death

shower scene is pointless and spoilt by trailer and they don't even bother to show the woman dying.

Then a straight series of doors open/doors close with alien vision......... zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

AIRLOCK sequence that is about as exciting as watching paint dry

"Help a girl out line" while B-side ripley with bad hair quips a dumb line

The motion of the CGI Alien was really bad. It just didn't look right.

OMG this movie. Yikes!



CGI alien birthed staring at GOD david was also very bad.

Succinct and reductive, but not baseless. You're right on a lot of points.

There was ZERO tension in the lander sequence.

Literally every tense moment in Prometheus outshines the "tense" moments in Covenant.
Jinroh
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(05-11-2017, 02:33 PM)
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One of the reason there's no tension is that you never feel like the characters are really threatened once they escape the temple. They just hunt the aliens. Daniels doesn't seem afraid, why would we be?
Sub_Level
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(05-11-2017, 02:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nappuccino

I kinda like it in Aliens 3--the death feel appropriate to the world and life of Ripley. No happy endings.

Shaws death doesn't make much thematic sense with Prometheus.

Well waddya know. Some Alien 3 fans finally getting a bitter taste of their own offscreen death medicine.

Can't say it feels bad >_>
EGM1966
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(05-11-2017, 02:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ferr986

I mean, I didn't watch the movie but the Xeno in here is different. Look at the motherfucker



different arm, legs (more organic, , seems like it's more veiny..)

Read in interview lead designer noted they decided to ditch the more obvious biomechanical trappings and go with more of a real world look (in that it's a living creature with muscles and veins).

Disappointing really as Scott was so keen on the biomechaical look for Alien and noted only Gieger's art looked truly alien and thus that was crucial to the look.

TBH the lower legs aside (limitation of the time of course) the original suit Geiger put together still looks best when well shot (such as emerging from the pipes in Narcissus).

In Alien Isolation where they blended original Geiger with better lower limbs for convincing movement the result was fantastic.

Here it loses the weird not flesh/creature vibe the biomechanical look delivered and just looks like a moderately funky human variant. Only the classic long dome head makes it look odd at all now.

But then with Prometheus and Covenant Scott has gone much further than anyone else in franchise in making the alien merely an exotic creature and lost the true sense of alien essence he himself first captured.

Given I decided to skip film I figured I'd most here and see if my worst fears were the case and oh boy does it sound like they were. Reading reviews/comments it's obviously a damn odd amalgam of Prometheus and Alien 3 and as disjointed as that implies.

The fact they'd skip chance to show Davids betrayal of Shaw (which could and should have been a very powerful scene and a key moment for David) says it all for me. Scott's skipping about chasing various themes and as dead that take his fancy, and while some good elements are emerging the whole is very messy.

I'll probably skip completely in cinema and just watch later for curio value at home.
Ninhead
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(05-11-2017, 02:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jacce

lol no, what gave you that impression?

There was a ton of talk about that leading up to release.
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 02:38 PM)
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Alien Isolation's beast is definitely my favorite Xenomorph design.
Days like these...
Poonani should have a ph balance of 0
(05-11-2017, 02:41 PM)
So the next film, timeline wise is placed between Prometheus and Covenant? Im hoping the film after that will feature the engineers and their own creations battling against David and his xenos leading up to the infamous space jockey scene in The original.
Alienfan
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(05-11-2017, 02:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jinroh

A lot?? I'm pretty sure 90% of the shots involving aliens are CGI. I don't remember anything practical about the last two aliens... Even the neomorphs look CGI the whole time.

Obviously the running/jumping was cgi, but you could definitely tell the parts where it was a guy in a suit by the way it was walking or the scene when the neomorph was hunched over. Maybe I'm wrong, but based on what Riddly Scott was saying prior to release about them using lots of practical effects for the creatures, I think when we see the making of, there will be a lot surprised people.
wesleyshark
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(05-11-2017, 02:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Days like these...

So the next film, timeline wise is placed between Prometheus and Covenant? Im hoping the film after that will feature the engineers and their own creations battling against David and his xenos leading up to the infamous space jockey scene in The original.

At this point it could be anything lol. Ridley has made mention of exploring between Prometheus and Covenant, and also what would lead up to the original Alien as well.

They're working on the script for next one, but what part of the timeline it covers, who can say for sure?

Maybe it'll be both a prequel and sequel to Covenant?
Days like these...
Poonani should have a ph balance of 0
(05-11-2017, 02:49 PM)

Originally Posted by wesleyshark

At this point it could be anything lol. Ridley has made mention of exploring between Prometheus and Covenant, and also what would lead up to the original Alien as well.

They're working on the script for next one, but what part of the timeline it covers, who can say for sure?

Maybe it'll be both a prequel and sequel to Covenant?

Since he's hellbent on explaining everything might as well go for broke. How much worse can it get?
papercan55
Member
(05-11-2017, 02:50 PM)

Originally Posted by EGM1966

Read in interview lead designer noted they decided to ditch the more obvious biomechanical trappings and go with more of a real world look (in that it's a living creature with muscles and veins).

Disappointing really as Scott was so keen on the biomechaical look for Alien and noted only Gieger's art looked truly alien and thus that was crucial to the look.

TBH the lower legs aside (limitation of the time of course) the original suit Geiger put together still looks best when well shot (such as emerging from the pipes in Narcissus).

In Alien Isolation where they blended original Geiger with better lower limbs for convincing movement the result was fantastic.

Here it loses the weird not flesh/creature vibe the biomechanical look delivered and just looks like a moderately funky human variant. Only the classic long dome head makes it look odd at all now.

But then with Prometheus and Covenant Scott has gone much further than anyone else in franchise in making the alien merely an exotic creature and lost the true sense of alien essence he himself first captured.

Given I decided to skip film I figured I'd most here and see if my worst fears were the case and oh boy does it sound like they were. Reading reviews/comments it's obviously a damn odd amalgam of Prometheus and Alien 3 and as disjointed as that implies.

The fact they'd skip chance to show Davids betrayal of Shaw (which could and should have been a very powerful scene and a key moment for David) says it all for me. Scott's skipping about chasing various themes and as dead that take his fancy, and while some good elements are emerging the whole is very messy.

I'll probably skip completely in cinema and just watch later for curio value at home.

Ridley scott has said the next film is set between prometheus and covenant so i guess you will see the betrayal then, we will also discover exactly what happened to them both during the ten years.
It might go into more detail how david found the formula for creating the xenomorphs seen in covenant, and if he had any help or guidance from engineers after landing.
Last edited by papercan55; 05-11-2017 at 02:52 PM.
clockworkinyou
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(05-11-2017, 02:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

3) This is the first film in which I honestly believe Ridley Scott has allowed a character to be an avatar of himself. I don't think he's ever self-inserted into one of his movies before.

David is basically Ridley Scott as obvious, and obviously flawed artist, stylishly obvious in the worst ways, confusing his on-the-nose flamboyance for profundity.

Holy shit man, I really enjoy this opinion. That's an accurate and sobering comparison.
chandoog
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(05-11-2017, 02:55 PM)
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Are there any Proto-xenomoprh vs Neomorph scenes in the movie ?

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