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Secret Fawful
(05-12-2017, 05:35 AM)
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Why is Isolation the only entry in the series to get the unknowable intelligent nature of the alien right? Even Ridley is trying to make it a dumb animal now?

Edit: After Alien itself I mean.
Last edited by Secret Fawful; 05-12-2017 at 05:52 AM.
rec0ded1
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(05-12-2017, 05:38 AM)
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So how does it end? David takes Walters body and leaves the planet? Does he take some black goop or eggs along with him?
Fj0823
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(05-12-2017, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by rec0ded1

So how does it end? David takes Walters body and leaves the planet? Does he take some black goop or eggs along with him?

He takes two frozen facehugger embryos with him and places them with the human embryos.

Daniels recognizes David but she's already entering hyper sleep, she tries to get out but falls asleep...
TheXbox
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(05-12-2017, 05:44 AM)
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Scott de-canonizing (is there a fucking word for this?) Aliens triggers at least two levels of frothing nerd rage:

1. "Aliens rules, fuck you for taking a shit on my favorite movie."

2. "Who the fuck are you, Ridley Scott? Alien wasn't even your idea. You just directed it. Six (?) other directors have also made Alien films. Who the fuck are you?"

The third level might be that the Scott's ideas are terrible in their own right, but I haven't seen the new film. Can't say it would bother me a whole lot if Scott took the Alien ball and ran away with it - it's not like I really think about Prometheus when I watch Aliens. Does anyone?

On the other hand, someone, somewhere wants a sequel to Aliens with Sigourney Weaver in it, because someone, at some point, thought that Neill Blomkamp's movie was a good idea. Could be some general wierdness if Fox returns to that idea.
Bobby Roberts
Lore Expert
(05-12-2017, 05:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Why is Isolation the only entry in the series to get the unknowable intelligent nature of the alien right? Even Ridley is trying to make it a dumb animal now?

There are, so far as I can remember, two moments in which the aliens are seen to contemplate a situation before acting. Maybe 3.

1) A Neomorph sneaks up on a victim, and then communicates with David briefly
2) The Xenomorph enters an airlock upright, scanning the area carefully

That second one ends after like 3 seconds as soon as it hears a noise, at which point it goes back to a screeching, yowling animal.

The third is that really fucking bizarre (and kinda comical) scene where the chestburster pops, and David raises his hands to it, and it mimicks the gesture.

both the Neomorph and the Xenomorph spend most of their time on all fours.

I do wonder if they're just gonna write in that Walter snuck some of the goop onboard with him, otherwise it seems weird that David would just leave behind all the cylinders. Although I guess he could just go back and get em whenever.
Last edited by Bobby Roberts; 05-12-2017 at 05:49 AM.
Secret Fawful
(05-12-2017, 05:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

There are, so far as I can remember, two moments in which the aliens are seen to contemplate a situation before acting. Maybe 3.

1) A Neomorph sneaks up on a victim, and then communicates with David briefly
2) The Xenomorph enters an airlock upright, scanning the area carefully

That second one ends after like 3 seconds as soon as it hears a noise, at which point it goes back to a screeching, yowling animal.

The third is that really fucking bizarre (and kinda comical) scene where the chestburster pops, and David raises his hands to it, and it mimicks the gesture.

both the Neomorph and the Xenomorph spend most of their time on all fours.

I do wonder if they're just gonna write in that Walter snuck some of the goop onboard with him, otherwise it seems weird that David would just leave behind all the cylinders. Although I guess he could just go back and get em whenever.

Ridley really doesn't understand his own original movie and why it worked, does he. Like, I thought he must have when he kept things fairly unexplained regarding motive and fairly grotesque in design, though dumb, in Prometheus but no. He just doesn't get it.

Removing the biomechanical design alone is just such a boneheaded move.
Last edited by Secret Fawful; 05-12-2017 at 06:02 AM.
FrozenCell
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(05-12-2017, 08:08 AM)
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were the plants blowing black particles into the air a result of David's biological attack, or something native to Engineer's home planet, which they cultivated and engineered into a gooey bio weapon?
ronaldthump
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(05-12-2017, 08:11 AM)

Originally Posted by Fj0823


It's better than 3,Resurrection, AvP and AvP2.

that's a pretty low bar tbh. lol
DocSeuss
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(05-12-2017, 08:13 AM)
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Aliens makes the Alien uninteresting, so I'm glad Scott is ignoring it. smdh at how Fox tried to claim that Cameron's aliens were bigger, stronger, and smarter, when they are none of these things, as depicted in Cameron's own film.
ronaldthump
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(05-12-2017, 08:14 AM)

Originally Posted by FrozenCell

were the plants blowing black particles into the air a result of David's biological attack, or something native to Engineer's home planet, which they cultivated and engineered into a gooey bio weapon?

the black goo affects living things. so it affected the plants as well. All flora and fauna.
ronaldthump
Member
(05-12-2017, 08:15 AM)

Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

There are, so far as I can remember, two moments in which the aliens are seen to contemplate a situation before acting. Maybe 3.

1) A Neomorph sneaks up on a victim, and then communicates with David briefly
2) The Xenomorph enters an airlock upright, scanning the area carefully

That second one ends after like 3 seconds as soon as it hears a noise, at which point it goes back to a screeching, yowling animal.

The third is that really fucking bizarre (and kinda comical) scene where the chestburster pops, and David raises his hands to it, and it mimicks the gesture.

both the Neomorph and the Xenomorph spend most of their time on all fours.

I do wonder if they're just gonna write in that Walter snuck some of the goop onboard with him, otherwise it seems weird that David would just leave behind all the cylinders. Although I guess he could just go back and get em whenever.

??

wut? Its not walter at the end on the covenant. It's David
FrozenCell
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(05-12-2017, 08:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

the black goo affects living things. so it affected the plants as well. All flora and fauna.

didn't David say it was explicitly engineered to affect animals i.e. fauna?
ronaldthump
Member
(05-12-2017, 08:24 AM)

Originally Posted by FrozenCell

didn't David say it was explicitly engineered to affect animals i.e. fauna?

nah he says the goo is a weapon that affects living things - so the plants etc are infected as well.

Of course, as a synthetic, he's safe.
EroticSushi
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(05-12-2017, 08:28 AM)
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So this is all we get on Shaw's death?

ronaldthump
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(05-12-2017, 08:29 AM)

Originally Posted by EroticSushi

So this is all we get on Shaw's death?

I was saddened by it. How'd you find this pic?

:(

she was also on the table. did you miss it? She was all aliened up.
nOoblet16
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(05-12-2017, 08:30 AM)
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It released here today in UK.
FrozenCell
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(05-12-2017, 08:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

??

wut? Its not walter at the end on the covenant. It's David

I was certain right away that David fooled everyone by cutting his own hand, but since he didn't have the stab wound previously visible under his chin, he must have somehow switched his chip with Walter's?

trying to stay away from hype/spoilers/trailers, I only saw the Walter creation video on Youtube after seeing the movie and there was a chip planting scene - could David remove its brain without blacking out?
Last edited by FrozenCell; 05-12-2017 at 08:36 AM.
EroticSushi
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(05-12-2017, 08:44 AM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

I was saddened by it. How'd you find this pic?

:(

she was also on the table. did you miss it? She was all aliened up.

They actually spoiled that scroll bit from one of their videos. Figured it might be the only thing they show for Shaw.
EGM1966
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(05-12-2017, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Secret Fawful

Why is Isolation the only entry in the series to get the unknowable intelligent nature of the alien right? Even Ridley is trying to make it a dumb animal now?

Edit: After Alien itself I mean.

Yeah it's odd. I mean Cameron while making them more obviously creature like at least left some hints of that "how could they cut the power, they're animals" as well as showing Queen parsing situational context.

He also firmly kept the biomechanical design.

Alien Isolation definitely channels the chills of Alien better than anything science though. Partly because, I believe, it locks itself down to an object in space. That puts the humans in a very small speck of familiar technology surrounded by the expanse of space and trapped with something unknown.

I think by taking place on planets, as every film since has done, this primal context is lost. On a planet there's always the sense of room to run, that the creatures just a creature on a planet: on the Nostromo or the space station from AI the alien becomes an invading virus, and the options to escape feel very, very much narrowed down.
HalterGratis
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(05-12-2017, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by FrozenCell

didn't David say it was explicitly engineered to affect animals i.e. fauna?

Iirc David said that the goo/virus only affects non-botanical life, or "meat". I think the black particles from the plants were actually tiny insects (possibly the 'plant' then being a hive/nest the insects make).
Hystzen
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(05-12-2017, 08:53 AM)
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What was up with the homo erotic walter and david flute playing no one in my screening could not stop laughing. Felt like Scott had Walter for a weird fassbender tries sleep with fassbender fetish he has
FrozenCell
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(05-12-2017, 08:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by HalterGratis

Iirc David said that the goo/virus only affects non-botanical life, or "meat". I think the black particles from the plants were actually tiny insects (possibly the 'plant' then being a hive/nest the insects make).

oh right, and in his lab we see wasp-like mutated insects which could have also pollinated local flora and added something extra
Jinroh
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(05-12-2017, 09:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by DocSeuss

Aliens makes the Alien uninteresting, so I'm glad Scott is ignoring it.

Haha, because covenant doesn't?
Carl2291
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(05-12-2017, 09:12 AM)
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I'd assume that David has some kind of control over the Xenos. This was shown by him communicating with the Neomorph and the whole raising his arms with the chest buster. He's trying to be Weyland. Creating life, teaching it, caring for it.

Next time out he probably creates the Queen, loses any kind of control and gets himself ripped in half, Bishop-style.

As for the Xeno itself, it actually looked threatening. Huge, fast, violent. They really nailed down the actual size of the Xeno.

The last scene of the film with Daniels realising it was David was brilliantly done too. The look of horror on her face, his smugness, the choice of music and showing just how many new test subjects he has.

Exciting times to be an Alien fan.
Moodz
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(05-12-2017, 09:27 AM)
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Just saw it last night.
I'm amazed at how bad this movie was.
I liked Prometheus a lot! I know it had its problems but still, it was fun and gorgeous.
I can't take seriously anyone who would hate on Prometheus for the plot and stupid shit and like Covenant, because it's the same shit but worse! And it isn't even well shot or beautiful to look at, and the cgi was bad...

At least Prometheus didn't try to be an alien movie. Covenant tries to be both Prometheus and Alien and fails at both.
All in all I think it might be the worst alien movie, I don't know, I haven't seen the average and sucky ones that much.

On the good side:
the main cast was very cool, but we already knew that.
I liked the gore, it's reaaally gory.
Some scenes are quite intense and it might be the scariest of the franchise.
sirap
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(05-12-2017, 09:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by EroticSushi

So this is all we get on Shaw's death?

I thought it was hilarious that they revived the series with not-Ripley but equally badass Elizabeth Shaw, only to replace her with someone possessing an acting range of:



Noomi Rapace's character deserved better. They did her dirty with that stupid-ass death.
Last edited by sirap; 05-12-2017 at 09:40 AM.
liquidtmd
(05-12-2017, 10:12 AM)
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Soooo....it's over and I'm out. Worse than Prometheus. And I wasn't a fan of that...

Visually good. A tad more likeable as an ensemble group but a downgraded replacement for a leading lady from Shaw. A real headscratcher of a finale in terms of how he thinks this is good storytelling. I could have dealt with the CGI'ness of a few scenes if I was into the story but it's just...cold.

Ridley - your plans to rush ahead with a Prequel to this. Stop. Please. Stop. This comes from someone who liked The Martian, so I know you've got goodness left in you. Film Alien Isolation as a movie. Work with Blompkamp to do Alien 5 with Weaver. The line of narrative in Prometheus and now this is terrible, it really comes across as hokey as hell.
Last edited by liquidtmd; 05-12-2017 at 12:26 PM.
Hystzen
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(05-12-2017, 10:13 AM)
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Whats strange about the whole David is Walter "twist" is when Daniel's is stapling his face and talking she clearly has a face of this dude ain't Walter. Not sure if it actress but it seemed she already figured it out then nope we get "shocked" reveal later.

Also synthetics can grow hair but not facial hair for some reason. I might be miss remembering but at start we see David talking to Weyland with a british accent but didn't Promethus have that whole part him speaking English accent due to him have a fascination with Laurence of Arabia film or did i just assume he changed his accent because of that but was always British
wesleyshark
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(05-12-2017, 10:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by Carl2291

The last scene of the film with Daniels realising it was David was brilliantly done too. The look of horror on her face, his smugness, the choice of music and showing just how many new test subjects he has.

Exciting times to be an Alien fan.

Absolutely loved the very end of the film when she realizes it's David and not Walter. The thought of him having ~2000 souls to experiment on is the more horrifying prospect in the film imho.

I bet that he'll take lessons learned from what happened on this planet, with how the neos and xeno were not too terribly hard to kill, and from that, he'll look to evolve the xeno into something more than just an organic.

Originally Posted by Hystzen

Also synthetics can grow hair but not facial hair for some reason. I might be miss remembering but at start we see David talking to Weyland with a british accent but didn't Promethus have that whole part him speaking English accent due to him have a fascination with Laurence of Arabia film or did i just assume he changed his accent because of that but was always British

I think that was more of him mimicking O'Toole's particular mannerisms and speaking style, and trying to look like him as well. They don't mention him adopting an accent or not, so this film doesn't really contradict anything.
Last edited by wesleyshark; 05-12-2017 at 10:36 AM.
FrozenCell
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(05-12-2017, 10:49 AM)
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interesting how the local engineer population kind of died in place when the goo hit them externally (no xenos either) but in Prometheus intro when one consumed the goo, his body dissolved fully - or did water act as a catalyst there?
Gilzor
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(05-12-2017, 11:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by FrozenCell

interesting how the local engineer population kind of died in place when the goo hit them externally (no xenos either) but in Prometheus intro when one consumed the goo, his body dissolved fully - or did water act as a catalyst there?

Isn't the suggestion in this movie that these aren't Engineers but a human-like race created by them, that also reveres them (hence all the statues and faces)? In that sense, they're closer to us than the Engineers themselves.
Jinroh
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(05-12-2017, 11:55 AM)
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It's the engineer's homeworld.
SCULLIBUNDO
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(05-12-2017, 12:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

I thought it was hilarious that they revived the series with not-Ripley but equally badass Elizabeth Shaw, only to replace her with someone possessing an acting range of:



Noomi Rapace's character deserved better. They did her dirty with that stupid-ass death.

Shaw was never on Ripley's level.
Gilzor
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(05-12-2017, 12:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jinroh

It's the engineer's homeworld.

Well that's incredibly fucking disappointing then :(
JoJo UK
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(05-12-2017, 12:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by Gilzor

Isn't the suggestion in this movie that these aren't Engineers but a human-like race created by them, that also reveres them (hence all the statues and faces)? In that sense, they're closer to us than the Engineers themselves.

I'm sure I read that in an interview on www.alien-covenant.com, of course it could have all been balls.

EDIT: Here it is, no idea if it holds water or not.
Last edited by JoJo UK; 05-12-2017 at 12:26 PM.
foolia
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(05-12-2017, 12:43 PM)
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sorry if this was answered (i'm still skimming the thread), but is david capable of forming those embryos within his body, or he just hid them inside his body?
wesleyshark
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(05-12-2017, 12:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by foolia

sorry if this was answered (i'm still skimming the thread), but is david capable of forming those embryos within his body, or he just hid them inside his body?

The movie doesn't explain it either way AFAIK.
foolia
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(05-12-2017, 12:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by foolia

sorry if this was answered (i'm still skimming the thread), but is david capable of forming those embryos within his body, or he just hid them inside his body?

Originally Posted by wesleyshark

The movie doesn't explain it either way AFAIK.

I think my bet goes to the former, cuz Scott seems to like them whacky ideas.
wesleyshark
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(05-12-2017, 12:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by foolia

I think my bet goes to the former, cuz Scott seems to like them whacky ideas.

I like the idea of him forming them within himself somehow, also, because it's so far out of left field.

There's your "queen" lol.
Cosmonaut X
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(05-12-2017, 12:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by wesleyshark

I like the idea of him forming them within himself somehow, also, because it's so far out of left field.

There's your "queen" lol.

...and your "biomechanical" - black goo, David's experiments and his own artificial biology come together to give birth to the look of Giger's biomech Alien.
sirap
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(05-12-2017, 12:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by SCULLIBUNDO

Shaw was never on Ripley's level.

Ripley had 4 (well, arguably 3) movies to grow as a character. Shaw was off to a great start and would've worked well as a central figure for the new movies.



Daniels was barely even there. I wouldn't even put her on the same universe as Ripley and Shaw. So much wasted potential.
Ollie Pooch
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(05-12-2017, 12:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

Ripley had 4 (well, arguably 3) movies to grow as a character. Shaw was off to a great start and would've worked well as a central figure for the new movies.



Daniels was barely even there. I wouldn't even put her on the same universe as Ripley and Shaw. So much wasted potential.

She's ripped! Wow. Shame to see her fate but I think it helped with the more brutal elements of this film. Helped build David's malevolence. Ill be honest though, I didn't find her particularly interesting in Prometheus. Not sure if it was the writing or her but she just didn't seem convincing.

Daniels was ok but her first few scenes were so sooky - the sad music was unnecessary when we never knew her husband. She grew into the role over the film but she was no Ripley. Plus her husband was James Franco, so I was secretly glad he got cooked. 👀
wesleyshark
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(05-12-2017, 01:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Cosmonaut X

...and your "biomechanical" - black goo, David's experiments and his own artificial biology come together to give birth to the look of Giger's biomech Alien.

Bingo 👌
Sub_Level
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(05-12-2017, 01:34 PM)
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Its a bit false to say that the aliens in 2 are portrayed as dumb bugs. There was the part where they navigate past a barricade-turret defense perimeteter in a time-synchronized ambush with shuttin off electrical power so their prey has a harder time seeing them. There was also the part where the queen learns how to operate an elevator im under a minute just from visual learning.

It introduces the queen organism (which could easily be written off as a variant or mutation if someone disliked the concept that much) but aside from that, everything about the alien universe is the same at the end of 2 as it was at the end of 1. The derelict ship still intact, company still the same as ever, origins still unknown. Its pretty respectful of the original movie. Prometheus and Covenant do FAR MORE to change the nature of the story than aliens ever did.
Ushojax
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(05-12-2017, 02:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheXbox

I'm guessing the film doesn't address the hive creation or the alien queen from Aliens. Is it still possible to reconcile Scott's alien with Cameron's? Does anyone think Scott is interested in dealing with that stuff?

I think the movie mentions that David used a wasp as part of his early experiments, so the insect aspect from Aliens isn't totally retconned.

Originally Posted by sirap

Ripley had 4 (well, arguably 3) movies to grow as a character. Shaw was off to a great start and would've worked well as a central figure for the new movies.

Daniels was barely even there. I wouldn't even put her on the same universe as Ripley and Shaw. So much wasted potential.

The terrible protagonists of the last two films are a far worse offense than the terrible lore, story structure etc. Ripley was just a space-trucker but she showed more guile, more intelligence, more character than Shaw and Daniels ever did. For a world-class scientist Shaw comes across as a complete moron, and Daniels is just a charisma vacuum.
Last edited by Ushojax; 05-12-2017 at 02:40 PM.
Scarecrow
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(05-12-2017, 02:57 PM)
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Disappointing.

Prometheus had tons of issues, but it looked great and at least tried to do something different with the universe. They had such potential with Shaw and David on the Engineer planet, but utterly squandered it.
Bobby Roberts
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(05-12-2017, 03:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by ronaldthump

??

wut? Its not walter at the end on the covenant. It's David

I know. I misspoke.

Being as the same actor is playing both characters and one is in the act of impersonating the other you get why I mighta slipped up there right?
Toa TAK
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(05-12-2017, 03:33 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bobby Roberts

I know. I misspoke.

Being as the same actor is playing both characters and one is in the act of impersonating the other you get why I mighta slipped up there right?

No.

I only accept perfection around here.
Bobby Roberts
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(05-12-2017, 03:34 PM)
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???

wut
Mediking
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(05-12-2017, 03:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by sirap

Ripley had 4 (well, arguably 3) movies to grow as a character. Shaw was off to a great start and would've worked well as a central figure for the new movies.



Daniels was barely even there. I wouldn't even put her on the same universe as Ripley and Shaw. So much wasted potential.


This gif of her flexing... is really.... hot....

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