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xDUMPWEEDx
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:05 PM)
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Originally Posted by Karsticles

My grandmother in MI refers to Warren as "that 'Native American' lady".

Warren would get destroyed in a general election. She looked horrible on her recent Bill Maher interview as well. She basically had no answers for anything, instead repeating the same old tired "we need to keep fighting and resist!".
sixteen-bit
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:06 PM)
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shoulda run, Joe
Sapiens
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by dramatis



Characterizing Hillary as a misanthrope is an indication of your hatred for her.

My hatred?

Originally Posted by Hildawg


Can you be a misanthrope and still love or enjoy some individuals? How about a compassionate misanthrope?

Sunday was lethargic from the beginning as I wallowed in a morass of general and specific dislike and pity for most people but me especially.

shawnbuddy
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by davepoobond

Lol the crime bill?

Not Wall Street speeches or ties to Wall Street?

Yep. For some her "super predators" comments and support for mass incarceration in the past proved her current overtures to the black community were inauthentic, with some telling me that she was racist. She also made a big gaffe by handling a protestor that yelled about the crime bill in a dismissive way at a fundraiser. Different people have different priorities.
Last edited by shawnbuddy; 05-19-2017 at 04:08 PM.
Kin5290
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphaLima

The implication is that Biden is suggesting he should be the party's nominee for 2020, because he would have won in 2016 if he'd ran.

The problem being that Biden already ran two unsuccessful primary bids, one that ended in disgrace following a plagiarism scandal. He'll no longer have Barack Obama to hide behind when it comes to his right leaning politics and gaffe prone nature, and not to mention there's his habit of inappropriately touching women when the party and society as a whole has become a lot more cognizant about that.

Originally Posted by shawnbuddy

Hillary's public support of the crime bill was often the main objection to her I heard from hardcore Berners. I can think that the guy who literally wrote it would have had an even tougher time, unless the objection was of course veiled sexism, as it was in many case.

Didn't Bernie... vote for said crime bill?
DontBeThatGuy
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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I see we're digging through old college letters now. Amazing.
Ray Wonder
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(05-19-2017, 04:07 PM)
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Originally Posted by shawnbuddy

Yep. For some her "super predators" comments and support for mass incarceration in the past proved her current overtures to the black community were inauthentic, with some telling me that she was racist. Different people have different priorities.

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?
TestOfTide
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by DontBeThatGuy

Warren probably shouldn't run. (and I don't think she will). She could potentially keep the sort of gains Hillary made with white suburban women, but I don't see her making up for the losses.

No. Warren would be a bad candidate for a couple of reasons:

1) Like Hillary, the GOP propaganda has honed in on attacking her already, so it would be easy for the GOP to turn her into the next Hillary.

2) Warren's fire is great as a senator representing a blue state, but on a national level tends to turn off suburban type conservatives, particularly the Romney/Hillary voters.
msdstc
Incredibly Naive
(05-19-2017, 04:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

Yep she did but her hardcores hand wave that as usual
Maxim726X
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

Ah, the return of hot sauce-gate.

They were the best of times... They were the worst of times. Looking back, mostly the worst.

Originally Posted by msdstc

Yep she did but her hardcores hand wave that as usual

Except, she actually does carry around hot sauce with her and often adds it to her food. Source: Anyone who has been around her for the last 20 years.

Are you Tucker Carlson?
Boke1879
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

She did, but apparently she really does do that. I think they asked her about it.
Kin5290
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

Which was documented fact. Unless you're saying that Hillary Clinton planted a news story so that 20 years later she could exploit it for "urban appeal" in her Presidential bid?
jack_package_200
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

She has done that for decades. She's from the south.

The only people who still bring this up/accuse her of pandering are white people who probably still salty she won the black vote.
dakini
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

She did, but she's been doing that since the 90s.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/...n-hot-peppers/
Maxim726X
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kin5290

Which was documented fact. Unless you're saying that Hillary Clinton planted a news story so that 20 years later she could exploit it for "urban appeal" in her Presidential bid?

Gotta appeal to that hot sauce fiending demographic? I guess?
btrboyev
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by TestOfTide

No. Warren would be a bad candidate for a couple of reasons:

1) Like Hillary, the GOP propaganda has honed in on attacking her already, so it would be easy for the GOP to turn her into the next Hillary.

2) Warren's fire is great as a senator representing a blue state, but on a national level tends to turn off suburban type conservatives, particularly the Romney/Hillary voters.

I like Warren, but she would be a terrible candidate and would get destroyed by the GOP.
tbm24
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kin5290

Didn't Bernie... vote for said crime bill?

Victim of circumstances, is what I would get from the ones I knew.
besada
#NotMyAmerica
(05-19-2017, 04:11 PM)
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Originally Posted by TangoAlphaLima

The implication is that Biden is suggesting he should be the party's nominee for 2020, because he would have won in 2016 if he'd ran.

Yeah, but he's going to be 77, assuming he's still alive by then. Americans like oldies for Presidents, but not that old.
shawnbuddy
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kin5290

The problem being that Biden already ran two unsuccessful primary bids, one that ended in disgrace following a plagiarism scandal. He'll no longer have Barack Obama to hide behind when it comes to his right leaning politics and gaffe prone nature, and not to mention there's his habit of inappropriately touching women when the party and society as a whole has become a lot more cognizant about that.

Didn't Bernie... vote for said crime bill?

Yes, but the excuse was that he was reluctant about it and also because there were priorities in there for domestic violence and a bird landed on his podium so fuck you.

I didn't say it made sense or was fair. Personally I feel most of the left's attacks on Clinton didn't.
GetLucky
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)

Originally Posted by Ridley327

I don't think he's wrong, especially with his clarification about her potentially being a good president. Being a good candidate and a good president don't necessarily go hand in hand.

This times a million. Hillary Clinton is the biggest political inspiration of my life. I think she would've been one of the best presidents in modern history.

She's a bad candidate.
Alucrid
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by besada

Yeah, but he's going to be 77, assuming he's still alive by then. Americans like oldies for Presidents, but not that old.

by the end of trump's presidency everyone will feel 77, so maybe he has a chance
TestOfTide
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by shawnbuddy

Yep. For some her "super predators" comments and support for mass incarceration in the past proved her current overtures to the black community were inauthentic, with some telling me that she was racist. She also made a big gaffe by handling a protestor that yelled about the crime bill in a dismissive way at a fundraiser. Different people have different priorities.

Don't get me wrong. Most of the people who supported the crime bill were just supporting it because they wanted an excuse to keep more black men in prison.

But back in the 90s the support for crime bills wasn't as drastically along racial lines. At the time a lot of older black voters were actually in support of the bill:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ed_by_the.html

Even "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander covered this. Basically while we NOW all know that the crime in the cities was mostly caused by unemployment and economic issues, a lot of well-meaning voters had been convinced that we needed to be tougher on crime to fix things.
Last edited by TestOfTide; 05-19-2017 at 04:15 PM.
SneakersSO
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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To those who haven't read it yet, I recommend reading Shattered. If the accounts of the election in that book are true, then I understand why Joe Biden is saying this now.
Elandyll
Wants his cup full of frames
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by btrboyev

I like Warren, but she would be a terrible candidate and would get destroyed by the GOP.

How?

The worst Trump could come up with was "Pocahontas".

She would destroy him.

Edit: and as much as I like Biden as a 'regular Joe', he missed his chance.
He would be 78 on Nov 2020.
Last edited by Elandyll; 05-19-2017 at 04:16 PM.
Hellwarden
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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I mean, maybe Biden would have fared better against Trump. Maybe not. It's like saying Sanders or Warren would have beaten him, it's an unknown.

Hillary being unlikable wasn't the only reason Trump won.
Last edited by Hellwarden; 05-19-2017 at 04:16 PM.
phanphare
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kin5290

Didn't Bernie... vote for said crime bill?

yes but he did passionately voice his concerns about the parts that he didn't agree with. there were a lot of things in that bill and I guess he thought the good parts forced his hand in terms of voting for it.

Originally Posted by SneakersSO

To those who haven't read it yet, I recommend reading Shattered. If the accounts of the election in that book are true, then I understand why Joe Biden is saying this now.

yeah my brother has been telling me about this book. apparently goes in to detail about obama, hillary, and the democrats holding biden back from running.
AlphaDump
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Appearing at the SALT hedge fund conference in Las Vegas, the possible 2020 presidential candidate weighed in on Hillary Clinton's 2016 candidacy in a way that Clinton supporters sure won't like.

Interesting. I wonder how accurate this is.
Ray Wonder
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by msdstc

Yep she did but her hardcores hand wave that as usual

Originally Posted by Maxim726X

Ah, the return of hot sauce-gate.

They were the best of times... They were the worst of times. Looking back, mostly the worst.



Except, she actually does carry around hot sauce with her and often adds it to her food. Source: Anyone who has been around her for the last 20 years.

Are you Tucker Carlson?

Originally Posted by Boke1879

She did, but apparently she really does do that. I think they asked her about it.

Originally Posted by Kin5290

Which was documented fact. Unless you're saying that Hillary Clinton planted a news story so that 20 years later she could exploit it for "urban appeal" in her Presidential bid?

Originally Posted by jack_package_200

She has done that for decades. She's from the south.

The only people who still bring this up/accuse her of pandering are white people who probably still salty she won the black vote.

Originally Posted by dakini

She did, but she's been doing that since the 90s.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/...n-hot-peppers/

holy fuck, I didn't know it was that touchy of a subject lol. damn. Okay, fair enough, she does carry hot sauce. Just came across as pandering, even if it wasn't.
TarNaru33
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by shawnbuddy

The only other reasonably viable one was Bernie. Maybe Biden thought Hillary was still better than him?

I am really not sure how people come to this conclusion... Hillary was only a better candidate for Democrats (hence why she won the nomination), she doesn't cross the isle, granted should still would have won if she didn't focus so much energy on flipping red states

Originally Posted by TestOfTide

Don't get me wrong. Most of the people who supported the crime bill were just supporting it because they wanted an excuse to keep more black men in prison.

But back in the 90s the support for crime bills wasn't as drastically along racial lines. At the time a lot of older black voters were actually in support of the bill:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ed_by_the.html

To be fair, people are for many things that are against their own interest a lot of time, especially since a lot of Blacks also fell into the belief that harsher punishments would reduce crime.
Last edited by TarNaru33; 05-19-2017 at 04:17 PM.
Maxim726X
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Hellwarden

I mean, maybe Biden would have fared better against Trump. Maybe not. It's like saying Sanders or Warren would have beaten him, it's an unknown.

Hillary being unlikable wasn't the only reason Trump one.

When you lose by ~200k votes in 3 states against the worst candidate in the history of the country, every little bit counts.
msdstc
Incredibly Naive
(05-19-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

holy fuck, I didn't know it was that touchy of a subject lol. damn. Okay, fair enough, she does carry hot sauce. Just came across as pandering, even if it wasn't.

They straight up ask if she's pandering to their listeners who are primarily black and she laughs and asks "is it working?"
tbm24
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by dakini

She did, but she's been doing that since the 90s.

https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/...n-hot-peppers/

Never ceases to make me laugh that this upset anyone. That and the implication that it's not genuine because she's white despite all the folks I know who drown their food in Sriracha.
xDUMPWEEDx
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:14 PM)
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The Dems need to run a moderate in 2020. Jim Webb would have been a great candidate in the general election, and would have handily destroyed Trump.

besada
#NotMyAmerica
(05-19-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

holy fuck, I didn't know it was that touchy of a subject lol. damn. Okay, fair enough, she does carry hot sauce. Just came across as pandering, even if it wasn't.

jack_package_200
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:15 PM)
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For 2020, they need someone young, intelligent, and charismatic and be everything Trump isn't.

Find a Trudeau or Macron.

Warren, Sanders, and Biden are too old for this.
Plinko
Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
(05-19-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by SolidSnakex

It's not revisionist history. We know that as a candidate she chose not to even campaign in Wisconsin, which was a state critical to her path to victory. And according to reports, she ignored Bill's and others suggestions of who should should campaign to and where







https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/10/u...-campaign.html

And a bit more that says a lot about her as a candidate









http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/us...ndraising.html

And finally

Still as rage-inducing today.

Robby Mook should never be allowed to run another campaign.
shawnbuddy
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

Didn't she say she carried hot sauce with her in her purse or something, in an interview with a hip hop station before?

She did, but it was true. She's been doing it since 92. Before she told the hip hop station about her love of peppers and hot sauces, she told Katie Couric.
Last edited by shawnbuddy; 05-19-2017 at 04:18 PM.
phanphare
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(05-19-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by jack_package_200

For 2020, they need someone young, intelligent, and charismatic and be everything Trump isn't.

Find a Trudeau or Macron.

Warren, Sanders, and Biden are too old for this.

yep. I'm gonna be very upset if it's bernie and biden. would show that the D's learned absolutely nothing.
NandoGip
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Biden would have easily won

Hillary could have won but among the options, she was not high on the list of who had the best chances

Bernie could have won, but its just as likely he would have lost

Warren (my senator who I support) would have similar chances to Hillary but in a different way

Hindsight is 20/20, most of this stuff is pretty obvious at this point IMO
davepoobond
you can't put a price on sparks
(05-19-2017, 04:16 PM)
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Originally Posted by besada


Wait until people realize she has been breathing air this whole time
Angelus Errare
this looks like one of those Final Fantasy games lionhead always makes
(05-19-2017, 04:17 PM)
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Hard pass on Biden. We really don't need someone who was/is to the right of Barack as the democratic nomination. People gave Hillary shit for her political leaning but give Biden a pass for his, that's some sus ass shit.

Warren would be a terrible pick too.
Last edited by Angelus Errare; 05-19-2017 at 04:20 PM.
Kin5290
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(05-19-2017, 04:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by phanphare

yes but he did passionately voice his concerns about the parts that he didn't agree with. there were a lot of things in that bill and I guess he thought the good parts forced his hand in terms of voting for it.

I mean, okay, but with that and $2 you can buy a cup of coffee.

Originally Posted by Ray Wonder

holy fuck, I didn't know it was that touchy of a subject lol. damn. Okay, fair enough, she does carry hot sauce. Just came across as pandering, even if it wasn't.

"I'll admit that I was wrong, but I will phrase that in a way that still reflects poorly on the person I was ragging on."
TestOfTide
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(05-19-2017, 04:18 PM)
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Originally Posted by jack_package_200

For 2020, they need someone young, intelligent, and charismatic and be everything Trump isn't.

Find a Trudeau or Macron.

Warren, Sanders, and Biden are too old for this.

Agreed.

One thing the GOP got right was that they have been focusing these past 8 years on filling seats with younger politicians, including conservative millennials.

Dems need to start doing same. Find more Jason Kanders and Pete Puttegiegs and Jon Ossofs.

Originally Posted by xDUMPWEEDx

The Dems need to run a moderate in 2020. Jim Webb would have been a great candidate in the general election, and would have handily destroyed Trump.

Fuck that. We don't need to run Dixiecrats on a national level unless you WANT minority turnout to be even Lower than it was last year.
Rembrandt
Banned
(05-19-2017, 04:19 PM)

Originally Posted by Souldriver

Then you should have run instead of bitching after the facts.

Yup. It's done. Maybe team up instead of dividing.
cartographer
Member
(05-19-2017, 04:19 PM)
Can you opt out of seeing hot sauce posts with GAF Gold?
msdstc
Incredibly Naive
(05-19-2017, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by besada

Look i voted for hillary, but I definitely am not a fan of her, and I really am not looking to cause a dust up debate on hillary because it's been had ad nauseam during the election and amidst the fallout of trump unfortunately winning. I don't hate everything she does, but this particular exchange felt extremely awkward to me.
Yoda
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(05-19-2017, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by xDUMPWEEDx

The Dems need to run a moderate in 2020. Jim Webb would have been a great candidate in the general election, and would have handily destroyed Trump.

In the event this isn't sarcasm, what the Democrats need is an anti-establishment candidate. A candidate like Jim Webb would murder base enthusiasm in it's crib and he'd be easily painted as a puppet of donors, as he'd need to rely on PAC money to compete with the GOP. If the Dems end up with an establishment candidate, at least pick someone with charisma, as much as I don't like him, Cory Booker would be a better choice than Jim Webb, and he's centrist/leans right (lol the government ought not negotiate down drug prices on those poor poor pharma companies!) on everything other than social issues.
shawnbuddy
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(05-19-2017, 04:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by TestOfTide

Don't get me wrong. Most of the people who supported the crime bill were just supporting it because they wanted an excuse to keep more black men in prison.

But back in the 90s the support for crime bills wasn't as drastically along racial lines. At the time a lot of older black voters were actually in support of the bill:

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_a...ed_by_the.html

Even "The New Jim Crow" by Michelle Alexander covered this. Basically while we NOW all know that the crime in the cities was mostly caused by unemployment and economic issues, a lot of well-meaning voters had been convinced that we needed to be tougher on crime to fix things.

I know that. You know that. But I was never able to successfully explain this to any Bernie partisan who wanted to use it as an excuse to hate Hillary.
DonShula
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(05-19-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by jack_package_200

For 2020, they need someone young, intelligent, and charismatic and be everything Trump isn't.

Find a Trudeau or Macron.

Warren, Sanders, and Biden are too old for this.

Truthfully looking forward to a large, young, and diverse primary field. I don't think Biden is really going to run (even if he thinks he will right now). We need so many candidates that the GOP will be scrambling to discredit all of them. Unlike last go around, the nominee winner needs to be tempered and honed during the primary process. Let the best candidate emerge, not the other way around.
Ray Wonder
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(05-19-2017, 04:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by msdstc

They straight up ask if she's pandering to their listeners who are primarily black and she laughs and asks "is it working?"

Oh wow, that's a good way to make people think you are actually pandering. For sure.

Originally Posted by besada

Oh yeah, for sure. This is a very common phenomena. I would love to get into psychology to study the reasons and effects of this.

Although I don't believe it applies to me in this scenario.

Originally Posted by Kin5290

"I'll admit that I was wrong, but I will phrase that in a way that still reflects poorly on the person I was ragging on."

Who's wrong? I was asking a question.

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