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LordOfLore
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:29 PM)
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Link.

Despite a rise in the number of anime titles and overall industry profits, one out of four anime studios is experiencing net losses, according to a Japanese television report.

That surprising figure was featured on an episode of Oikonomiya, a show on Japanese broadcaster NHK, which delved into the current state of the anime industry.

The number of studios in the red increased to just over 25% percent in 2015, according to the program, after hovering around 20% between 2011-2014.

The episode also featured residents of the Tokyo Animator Dormitory, who spoke to host Naoki Matayoshi about the financial problems faced by young animators. Numbers discussed: 80% of animators quit within their first three years, and average wages for an in-between animator come out to about 60,000 ($540) a month.

Perhaps the most explosive number: animator Tetsuya Akutsu revealed he had once spent five hours on a frame for which he was paid 200 (under $2).

First saw it on Crunchyroll.
kewlmyc
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:30 PM)
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I'm going to blame Light Novel adaptions.
AlStrong
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:33 PM)
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I haven't seen enough anime to know where this is going.
BronsonLee
(05-19-2017, 08:34 PM)
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If only it was all four, my war on anime would be complete
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(05-19-2017, 08:34 PM)
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They just need to work more hours is all.
Lactose_Intolerant
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:34 PM)
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Originally Posted by AlStrong

I haven't seen enough anime to know where this is going.

Berserk anime
SocksAndShoes
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:34 PM)
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Have they tried changing forms?
NESpowerhouse
Perhaps he's wondering why someone would shoot a man before throwing him out of a plane.
(05-19-2017, 08:35 PM)
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Originally Posted by BronsonLee

If only it was all four, my war on anime would be complete

You monster Frisbee.
yanipheonu
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:36 PM)
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Hearing stories that they literally couldn't get enough animators (not lack of budget or resources, there were literally not enough people to do the job) for Attack on Titan S2 to have more episodes was an eye opener. That industry has problems.
HStallion
Now what's the next step in your master plan?
(05-19-2017, 08:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by yanipheonu

Hearing stories that they literally couldn't get enough animators (not lack of budget or resources, there were literally not enough people to do the job) for Attack on Titan S2 to have more episodes was an eye opener. That industry has problems.

Japan in general has serious problems with its workforce at large, not just anime.
L Thammy
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:38 PM)
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anime avatars ruin everything

also, it's nothing but trash
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
(05-19-2017, 08:39 PM)
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Pump out the Isekai's.

Surprised it isn't higher than 1 in 4. Releasing anime is gambleish as fuck.
Akuun
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(05-19-2017, 08:39 PM)
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Perhaps the most explosive number: animator Tetsuya Akutsu revealed he had once spent five hours on a frame for which he was paid 200 (under $2).

Holy shit. That won't even buy a drink in some cases.

It makes sense that these people would try to find a job that pays better for less work. That's just ridiculous.
Divvy
Canadians burned my passport
(05-19-2017, 08:40 PM)
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The episode also featured residents of the Tokyo Animator Dormitory, who spoke to host Naoki Matayoshi about the financial problems faced by young animators. Numbers discussed: 80% of animators quit within their first three years, and average wages for an in-between animator come out to about 60,000 ($540) a month.

I truly worry about the anime industry there.

There's going to be a giant shortage of talent there soon, as who in their right mind is going to want to be an animator with those wages and work hours.

Originally Posted by Akuun

Holy shit. That won't even buy a drink in some cases.

It makes sense that these people would try to find a job that pays better for less work. That's just ridiculous.

That's just the quota system that isn't really uncommon around the world. It's a shit system that doesn't take into account the complexity of the work. I wish it would die.
Jeffrey
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:42 PM)
Why are animators paid so little? Is this common in other countries? $500 a month able to even get you rent in the cities where these studios are?
Zombine
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(05-19-2017, 08:44 PM)
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I miss the good old days when anime was just space adventures and distopian worlds where everyone exploded into tomato juice and cursed a lot.
Divvy
Canadians burned my passport
(05-19-2017, 08:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Why are animators paid so little? Is this common in other countries? $500 a month able to even get you rent in the cities where these studios are?

It's a career people go into because they're passionate and are naively willing to make sacrifices for.

Obviously a lot of studios and production houses take advantage of this.
Easy_D
never left the stone age
(05-19-2017, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Why are animators paid so little? Is this common in other countries? $500 a month able to even get you rent in the cities where these studios are?

Something relating to profit margins, I'd assume.
Geist-
Member
(05-19-2017, 08:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Jeffrey

Why are animators paid so little? Is this common in other countries? $500 a month able to even get you rent in the cities where these studios are?

I imagine this is the reason 2D animation has died/is dying in most other countries in favor of CG.
Orcastar
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(05-19-2017, 08:45 PM)
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Just outsource animation to India or the Philippines or wherever. Problem solved.
Akuun
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(05-19-2017, 08:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by Divvy

I truly worry about the anime industry there.

There's going to be a giant shortage of talent there soon, as who in their right mind is going to want to be an animator with those wages and work hours.



That's just the quota system that isn't really uncommon around the world. It's a shit system that doesn't take into account the complexity of the work. I wish it would die.

The quota system is pretty dumb, yeah.

I was once offered a job transcribing things that paid $1 per page of text. I was like "lol, fuck that."
.JayZii
Banned
(05-19-2017, 08:47 PM)
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I wish the business model would change to there being half as many shows being made per season but with more people working on each one.

I guess a quality over quantity model is even worse at paying the bills than what they currently have?

Originally Posted by Zombine

I miss the good old days when anime was just space adventures and distopian worlds where everyone exploded into tomato juice and cursed a lot.

The good old days when that's all that was brought over to your country as opposed to everything, like it is now.
BadWolf
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(05-19-2017, 08:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zombine

I miss the good old days when anime was just space adventures and distopian worlds where everyone exploded into tomato juice and cursed a lot.

Those were the days :(
Squishy3
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(05-19-2017, 08:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orcastar

Just outsource animation to India or the Philippines or wherever. Problem solved.

They'd probably be paying more for that.
- J - D -
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(05-19-2017, 08:49 PM)
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Are people buying less merchandise? It's where the money used to be.
Mortemis
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(05-19-2017, 08:49 PM)
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Originally Posted by BronsonLee

If only it was all four, my war on anime would be complete

Keep fighting the good fight!
kiunchbb
www.dictionary.com
(05-19-2017, 08:51 PM)
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Not enough people buying the blu ray that only included 2 episodes for more than 30 bucks?

There are not much point in collecting them anymore, since majority of the shows every season are just advertisement for unfinished light novel or manga.
SliceSabre
Catgirls in skimpy clothes aren't sexual, it's their made up MMO culture
(05-19-2017, 08:54 PM)
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You'd think they'd be making more money when you think about the shit wages they pay animators but then you remember how much DVD/BDs cost and then it makes sense to a certain extent.
Turin Turambar
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(05-19-2017, 08:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Akuun

Holy shit. That won't even buy a drink in some cases.

It makes sense that these people would try to find a job that pays better for less work. That's just ridiculous.

And at the same time, if they increased salaries even more companies would be in the red.
DiipuSurotu
(05-19-2017, 08:55 PM)
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All according to keikaku
jstripes
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(05-19-2017, 08:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Zombine

I miss the good old days when anime was just space adventures and distopian worlds where everyone exploded into tomato juice and cursed a lot.

Can't tell if serious.
ShinySylvee
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(05-19-2017, 08:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Orcastar

Just outsource animation to India or the Philippines or wherever. Problem solved.


I was under the impression that a lot of animation (Both Western and Japanese) outsourced a lot of the tedious and work-intensive parts of the animation process to companies in Korea and the Phillipines. It definitely happens with a lot of Westerm shows and I heard they did it for Anike a lot too.
Syder
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(05-19-2017, 08:59 PM)
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Make better stuff worth buying then.
daveo42
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(05-19-2017, 08:59 PM)
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Not enough otakus in the wild to support all the moe, loli, fanservice, and harem garbage that seems to have taken over the industry. Animation also tends to be real expensive.
julesodies
Member
(05-19-2017, 09:00 PM)
Maybe they're not working hard enough? More overtime guys! Humans only need 1 hour of sleep anyways
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by daveo42

Not enough otakus in the wild to support all the moe, loli, fanservice, and harem garbage that seems to have taken over the industry. Animation also tends to be real expensive.

Yeah I wonder how the studios that didn't cave in 100% on that type of stuff have been doing.

Originally Posted by kiunchbb

Not enough people buying the blu ray that only included 2 episodes for more than 30 bucks?

There are not much point in collecting them anymore, since majority of the shows every season are just advertisement for unfinished light novel or manga.

Yeah the prices are freaking stupid. I remember back in the 2000's it was typically around 20 bucks for a dvd and you typically got 4-6 episodes
Last edited by QisTopTier; 05-19-2017 at 09:04 PM.
Lumination
'enry 'ollins
(05-19-2017, 09:02 PM)
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What is the difference between successful cartoons in the US and anime in Japan? From what I can tell, animators are basically paid in peanuts and the studios STILL struggle to make a profit. Why are they not making enough income? I always hear that their main revenue stream is blurays, but why is that? There are the US cartoons that are sustained by merchandise, but aren't they usually just supported by commercials like other TV shows?
StoneFox
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(05-19-2017, 09:03 PM)
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A vicious cycle of bad work conditions, old talent retiring or dying off thus leaving behind a void, and overpriced blu rays and merchandise that only hardcore fans would spend money on (unless your target demographic is children and are selling toys). I don't know what the solution would be, but clearly things need to be reviewed for possible changes.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(05-19-2017, 09:03 PM)
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Self correcting problem:

Anime dies due to lack of viewers,
Therefore Japanese people start hooking up and having kids again,
Therefore more viewers to watch anime
DeadRockstar
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(05-19-2017, 09:03 PM)
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Most anime studios aren't on the production committees for the works they produce, nor do they usually own them, so that doesn't surprise me.

For example: Actas lost money on the Girls und Panzer movie because they went over budget, even though the movie was a big success. They simply didn't see the profits.
Imperial Bishop
Oh my God!
(05-19-2017, 09:04 PM)
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When you rely on pandering garbage, this is usually what happens.
blakep267
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(05-19-2017, 09:05 PM)
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They need to monetize it overseas better. Crunchyroll just started getting the bulk of the shows last season but before that there were a bunch of shows that weren't subbed. Even now there still are a bunch of shows not subbed by Netflix or CR
Youngfossil
Junior Member
(05-19-2017, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

Self correcting problem:

Anime dies due to lack of viewers,
Therefore Japanese people start hooking up and having kids again,
Therefore more viewers to watch anime

LOL you're assuming they dont bang because of anime.

They dont bang because of those crazy game shows
Kite
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(05-19-2017, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by HStallion

Japan in general has serious problems with its workforce at large, not just anime.

I've heard that anime is the worst, if you are an artist and want to actually make semi-livable wages.. you get out of anime and into gaming. There is a serious lack of new talent going into anime.

Ironically, one of the few studios that pays their workers decent salaries, train them in house and work to retain talent is.. Kyoto Animation the masters of the hated moe lolol



http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/feat...special/.95559

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/inte...itions/.110623
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
(05-19-2017, 09:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Lumination

What is the difference between successful cartoons in the US and anime in Japan? From what I can tell, animators are basically paid in peanuts and the studios STILL struggle to make a profit. Why are they not making enough income? I always hear that their main revenue stream is blurays, but why is that? There are the US cartoons that are sustained by merchandise, but aren't they usually just supported by commercials like other TV shows?

Adaptations are one of the biggest things in anime, that alone sucks up money due to royalties and shit.

I'd say one of the biggest things fucking anime studios is royalties and shit

Originally Posted by Kite

Ironically, one of the few studios that pays their workers decent salaries, train them in house and work to retain talent is.. Kyoto Animation the masters of the hated moe lolol

Well people don't typically hate their stuff in general because they are basically the one everyone is copying. It's like in the gaming world where everyone was trying to copy call of duty but not understanding why there were not being sucessful
Last edited by QisTopTier; 05-19-2017 at 09:10 PM.
Divvy
Canadians burned my passport
(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by DeadRockstar

Most anime studios aren't on the production committees for the works they produce, nor do they usually own them, so that doesn't surprise me.

For example: Actas lost money on the Girls und Panzer movie because they went over budget, even though the movie was a big success. They simply didn't see the profits.

This

The studios themselves only have so much money to work with unless they own the IP themselves. It's the production companies forcing studios to underbid for projects leaving them with scraps to pay people.
TissueBox
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(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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Anime has always felt close to boarding a sinking ship for a while. Please, get your sh*t together people! I just hope anime isn't exclusively light novel promos and hentai in the future lol.
Veitsev
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(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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Part of the answer I think is better proliferation of the source material in the West. Right now the system we have is not great. Something like a 1/3 of anime revenue comes from outside Japan and it should be much more.

Take something like Spice & Wolf

- Anime gets released
- Novels get licensed a good amount of time later
- Takes at minimum a year of releases for source material to catch up with Anime. With other series it might take 2 years or more.
- During this time the fastest way to read it is through fan translations that don't give any money to the publisher. Fans get used to this, getting stuff for "free", and are less likely to spend money.
- There is also nowhere near as much prerelease hype to an anime adaptation following this model

There needs to be a company pushing the source material harder even before anime adaptations. Yen Press is the largest we have and they only seem to license most stuff after its been successfully adapted into anime. A quality, successful, and likely popular in the West manga like Kaguya Wants to Be Confessed To isn't licensed and likely won't be unless there is an anime adaptation. There is space for a digital service offering what the scanlation groups do for "free" and right now the industry is just throwing that money away.
Kinyou
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(05-19-2017, 09:09 PM)
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You'd think with anime being so easily available internationally through streaming services, studios would make a bigger profit.
Lucumo
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(05-19-2017, 09:10 PM)
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Originally Posted by daveo42

Not enough otakus in the wild to support all the moe, loli, fanservice, and harem garbage that seems to have taken over the industry. Animation also tends to be real expensive.

Pretty much this. With the shift away from the general public as the market to pandering to those kinda people, such things are expected. Though, if they stayed like that, they would have been in the red anyway.

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