https://twitter.com/Surface_UK/status/861888603525349376
Sounds like they're about to announce something, or have a pointless video demoing existing product.
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Microsoft Surface Pro 4 announced: "better in nearly every way" (The Verge)
- Thread starter Anton Sugar
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Sounds like they're about to announce something, or have a pointless video demoing existing product.
brotkasten
Member
They already confirmed that there won't be a Surface Pro 5 in the near future. It looks like a SP4 refresh with Kaby Lake is the only thing we're getting early this year. SB2 in the Fall, too.
they announced this about Surface Pro 5?
edit: sounds like a misquote, but it's clear that MS want to ride out the SP4 for a while.
What I would like to see in a SP5...
-Sturdier stand. The current one is really nice and has a nice wide range of positions, but after 1.5 years it feels a little flappy/loose (though I think it was always like this). Not sure how to describe it but it feels a little less than premium.
-Would be cool if they could go fanless across the entire product range. I love so much that my SP4 m3 is fanless/quiet.
-Better pen. I mean it's great as is but I want to see MS compete with Wacom here on accuracy, jitter, etc
-OMG improve the battery
-Sturdier stand. The current one is really nice and has a nice wide range of positions, but after 1.5 years it feels a little flappy/loose (though I think it was always like this). Not sure how to describe it but it feels a little less than premium.
-Would be cool if they could go fanless across the entire product range. I love so much that my SP4 m3 is fanless/quiet.
-Better pen. I mean it's great as is but I want to see MS compete with Wacom here on accuracy, jitter, etc
-OMG improve the battery
PodcastFips
Member
"Just a refresh" without new features will kill all Surface momentum. They're not going to risk that.
Are they?
Are they?
No, Panos was misquoted as he tried to dodge Qs about SP5. I think they will announce SP5 in their China event later this month.
I don't think so. I think we'll see a SP4 refresh at that event and then the real deal SP5/SB2 this fall.
Shogmaster
Member
N-Trig already has better accuracy, palm rejection, and jitter control than Wacom's AES due to their superior touch digitizer layer. Where they lag behind is on their pens, specifically the load sensor, where Wacom enjoys lower initial detection force and much more linear and predictable pressure curve.
This is why the upcoming dual protocol pen from Wacom for N-Trig and AES devices is so exciting: It gives you best of both tech.
brotkasten
Member
Thank you for the correction. I wasn't aware of that. I only caught the story on DTNS this morning.
Is that pen ever coming? It feels like I've been hearing about this for two years now.
Shogmaster
Member
It feels like it don't it... It's still listed as "under development" according to Wacom's latest investor's report according to Surface Pro Artist's blog.
The Faceless Master
Member
Microsoft? kill momentum on a product? never!
artsi
Member
Apparently this thing just popped up.
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/wacom-bamboo-ink-smart-stylus-black/5731102.p?skuId=5731102
That's Q4. It's a way away. Might be 2018.
What leak?
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/19/15662342/microsoft-surface-pro-leak
Unfortunately, seems like its just a refresh.
Surface Pro 2017 sounds like a very nice upgrade, especially the pen. "Twice as responsive as Apple Pencil"
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/23/15674228/microsoft-surface-pen-features-improvements
Surface Pen 2017 vs SP4 stats:
latency 12ms vs 45ms
pressure: 4096 vs 1024
activation force: 12g vs unknown (much worse)
new: tilt+rotation
https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/23/15674228/microsoft-surface-pen-features-improvements
Surface Pen 2017 vs SP4 stats:
latency 12ms vs 45ms
pressure: 4096 vs 1024
activation force: 12g vs unknown (much worse)
new: tilt+rotation
The pen is backwards compatible, but aside from the tilt that won't work on SP4, will the latency and pressure at least function?
Shogmaster
Member
12 grams IAF is TERRIBLE. It has to be a typo. N-Trig's older pens had 10 grams of IAF, and that's ones before SP4. By comparison, Wacom AES pen has 1 gram IAF.
I wouldn't count on latency improving.
I don't remember which article it was that cited 12g IAF. Maybe I made a mistake.
True enough. Latency doesn't really bother me, but if the sensitivity increase works then I'd still consider the pen. Of course I'm also prepared for that not to either.
LukasTaves
Member
Tilt is coming via firm update to all surface devices starting at Surface 3 (and Pro), but excluding the Surface Laptop, according to the store page.
Shogmaster
Member
No you are correct. The Verge clearly says 12 grams IAF...
Ah that's good to hear. I missed that when skimming earlier.
That however is deeply concerning.
Shogmaster
Member
Well The Verge as usual was wrong. According to someone from Surface team, the IAF is "less than 9 grams". So 8 grams and some fraction. Probably 8.9 grams lolz.
I guess MS prioritized reducing lag over reducing IAF. That's good for digital drawing newbs, not good for us veterans.
artsi
Member
How much is the old pen?
ThoseDeafMutes
Member
10 I believe. So a small improvement in that area.
brotkasten
Member
I want to see this exact confirmation coming from a member of the Surface team.
Shogmaster
Member
10 grams is what N-Trig has been listing it as for years. Maybe it was higher lol.
Shogmaster
Member
Apple circumvents the load sensor's IAF by starting level 1 of the pressure curve by simply touching down on the screen and engaging the electro static field.
Basically, you don't have to press down on the pen tip to start marking, making it impossible to know what the IAF of their load sensor is.
Shogmaster
Member
They already have 1 gram IAF. That's their best feature IMO.
I called Wacom sales today. They first gave me some run around, but eventually sent me an email stating that their dual protocol pen Bamboo Ink Smart (CS321AK) will be publicly announced on May 31st. It will probably be on sale that day. Best Buy distribution centers already have them BTW.
artsi
Member
That's damn cool, I'll get it day one.
Shogmaster
Member
Hopefully it has the second coil for tilt function. It may not (Wacom is only charging $70 for the pen while MS is charging $100 for their tilt pen).
Comparing the specs for SP4 vs specs for SP2017 on the UK store shows a few things.
Microsoft seem to have a weird idea of the RRP of the SP4, as they're listing the old price of the SP4 at £100 or more than it was ever was, even in 2015.
The stingy 4GB RAM / 128GB SSD is now £980, which is quite a price hike over the previous gen.
The 2017 type keyboard is £150, despite having no improvements. Still no wireless option. Given that one of the keys on my SP4 keyboard is pretty bad now, it seems like pretty poor value.
Microsoft seem to have a weird idea of the RRP of the SP4, as they're listing the old price of the SP4 at £100 or more than it was ever was, even in 2015.
The stingy 4GB RAM / 128GB SSD is now £980, which is quite a price hike over the previous gen.
The 2017 type keyboard is £150, despite having no improvements. Still no wireless option. Given that one of the keys on my SP4 keyboard is pretty bad now, it seems like pretty poor value.
I have a Apple Pro but never draw on it.
Is the Pencil worth the $100
Shogmaster
Member
If you like to draw, then yes. It's infinitely better than any of the 3rd party stylus solutions for iPads, including Wacom's Creative Stylus 2 and Adonit whatever.
Brexit prices.
I love my SP4 i5 and I use it almost every day, but I don't much enjoy writing text on it, partially because of the lag, but also because of the software.
I haven't found any software for written notes that I liked using. Onenote has this 'floating text area' concept that always turns my notes into such a mess. iOS frustratingly has much better options for note taking.
Shogmaster
Member
Try Squid (Papyrus) or Mischief.
Ah, thanks. I read somewhere that the creators update fixed the lag?
Well the SP4 just got another firmware update.
- Surface Embedded Controller Firmware (103.1684.256.0) improves battery life during sleep.
- Intel(R) Precise Touch Device (v1.2.0.83) disables touch when cover is closed and improves stability.
- Surface Integration (v1.0.121.0) adjusts system hibernation defaults
- Surface Touch Servicing ML (v1.0.724.0) updates touch functionality.
- Surface System Aggregator Firmware (v103.1610.256.0) resolves screen brightness issues when device comes out of sleep.
- Surface UEFI (v106.1624.768.0) refines brightness settings.
- Surface Touch (v57.1.1.1) optimizes touch functionality.
I checked out the new Surface Pro in the Microsoft Store today. It definitely looks very very similar to the SP3/SP4, but it still feels top of class and better than most every other such device out there - not fixing what's not broken!
The screen is beautiful, the performance flies, and the kickstand feels nicer.
I'm thinking that I'll replace my Surface Book with this thing. The Surface Book is really nice, but I like the Surface Pro form factor better, and would appreciate it being lighter and thinner too. And the update from Skylake to Kaby Lake will be noticeable, even if not huge.
The screen is beautiful, the performance flies, and the kickstand feels nicer.
I'm thinking that I'll replace my Surface Book with this thing. The Surface Book is really nice, but I like the Surface Pro form factor better, and would appreciate it being lighter and thinner too. And the update from Skylake to Kaby Lake will be noticeable, even if not huge.
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