cj_iwakura
Member
Yep, I dig it.
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Shin Megami Tensei Community Thread: Be Your True Demon
- Thread starter cj_iwakura
- Start date
snow in jamaica
Member
Mother and daughter. Guess which one's which.
I sure hope "it's good except for X fetishistic element" isn't a thing forever. I'm fucking sick of otaku garbage.
Also, why did they add Night Stalker of all things? Nice one on Thanatos though, even if it's one of Kaneko's more puzzling designs.
TurnipFritters
Member
A: "Hey so we need a design for a mythological figure whose only real significant myth was largely about her being a mother who wanted her daughter back"
B: "I've got just the ticket!"
B: "I've got just the ticket!"
ResourcefulStar
Neo Member
I wonder if Atlus USA will go with the Doric spelling (Damater) to tie into the MA theme.
ClearMetal
Member
Demeter is all about agriculture and fertility of the earth. Motherhood plays a big part in the story of her and Persephone, but isn't what she was worshiped for as far as I'm aware.
I wouldn't have depicted her as a child myself, but I can kind of see where it comes from, I guess? I feel Doi has taken a more "playful nature spirit" approach to her, which is fine. One of the charms of SMT is that it doesn't shy away from depicting mythological figures in new and unexpected ways.
I honestly can't tell if you're talking about Demeter or Persephone here. Besides, it has already been a thing forever, given the fetishistic elements Kaneko liked to add to his designs.
I was gonna say, that has been a thing since the Kaneko days. See: Angel, one of the demon designs everyone loves. Angel (the BDSM one, not the Devil Survivor/old school one) is an perfect example of demons being depicted in unexpected, yet logical if you think about it, ways.
Or Arioch might be an even better example. I won't post the pic here since he might be considered NSFW, but basically he is a giant blue vagina with teeth and a tongue, holding a sword. His name in Hebrew means "fierce lion". Lion = cat = pussy = vagina
And he certainly looks quite fierce.
Doi's designs aren't as good as Kaneko for sure, but they definitely are quite good.
TurnipFritters
Member
you're right. she was worshiped because she turned herself into an old woman and taught a guy how agriculture worked so he could share it with all the humans.
cj_iwakura
Member
Sounds like OT title material to me.
Fuck, laughing like an idiot at 4 AM.
snow in jamaica
Member
That sounds too blasé with Demeter under consideration. The point of contention is her infantilization. With enough (any?) exposure to otaku and otaku media (including 4A and its pedophilic creepfests), her design reads as cheap, gross "loli" pandering. While not as explicit as the historical figures depicted as half-naked children in Fate/Grand Order, it's still reminiscent of them. I see no good reason for her to be a child and there's enough precedent for me to not trust that it was done in good faith. It gets way, way worse when you factor in her many consorts and children. Uggggghhhhhh. It doesn't help either that Anahita has incongruent playboy body language going on.
Also, Persephone's design has zero fetishistic content, she's just nude. It's not about the existence of creative liberties, but rather responsibility in regard to what they are, what they're for, and how they're used.
She was worshipped at Eleusis because of her search for Persephone, and it's pretty linked to her. Life and death etc.
It's not a great design.
The concept of Demeter does remind me a bit of the 'moe representation' school of design, with a couple of character items added to an otherwise unrelated design.
It's obviously not comparable in quality; and there's nothing offensive about it on its own, but for how it's being used and what it's intended to represent; it does kind of invite that parallel.
It's obviously not comparable in quality; and there's nothing offensive about it on its own, but for how it's being used and what it's intended to represent; it does kind of invite that parallel.
I've got another random question. Does anyone know of a list (or just know) of every demon in the Jack Frost family throughout the entire IP? I was looking for a list but couldn't find one.
Off the top of my head, there's:
Jack Frost
Pyro Jack/Jack-o-Lantern
Jack Ripper
Devil Buster Busters
King Frost
Frost Ace
Black Frost
Demonee-Ho
Raiho
Frost Five
Frost Trio
Lucifroz
What am I missing?
Off the top of my head, there's:
Jack Frost
Pyro Jack/Jack-o-Lantern
Jack Ripper
Devil Buster Busters
King Frost
Frost Ace
Black Frost
Demonee-Ho
Raiho
Frost Five
Frost Trio
Lucifroz
Hairy Jack
What am I missing?
This page should have a few.
Ones listed there you missed are the Blue Hawaii Frost, Petit Frost, Milky Frost, Queen Frost; and Lemon, Strawberry and Melon Frosts.
Cool, thank you. Though you got me on a technicality -- five of those are the constituent elements of the Frost Five.
snow in jamaica
Member
Wendiho
Is that real, or just a pun off of Wendigo being ice-based?
snow in jamaica
Member
Jack Frost evolves into Wendigo in SMT4.
cj_iwakura
Member
Deleted scenes from Nocturne:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN0bH79tlO8
Interesting. Clearly very rough, but interesting. Is that in Ginza?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dN0bH79tlO8
Interesting. Clearly very rough, but interesting. Is that in Ginza?
I'm digging this new Incubus design, it really captures men's descent into madness as a result of their lust. Kaneko truly was a genius.
Also, is that Lisa in the hospital? Why is she there? Wish I could understand what they're saying.
cj_iwakura
Member
I'm digging this new Incubus design, it really captures men's descent into madness as a result of their lust. Kaneko truly was a genius.
Also, is that Lisa in the hospital? Why is she there? Wish I could understand what they're saying.
The Lisa thing was from debug mode, I'm pretty sure it was just a test of the engine, not meant to have her be part of the story.
snow in jamaica
Member
Yeah, just test assets. There were also models for Maya, younger man Louis, and Sid Davis.
Neat video. Amazing scene of Lilith's snake hacking up a fireball to open a goblin door to Bowser's castle.
Neat video. Amazing scene of Lilith's snake hacking up a fireball to open a goblin door to Bowser's castle.
cj_iwakura
Member
Four Horsemen battle (hack):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLx562Kqmyk
Looks intense. Kind of funny we've never had that as a thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLx562Kqmyk
Looks intense. Kind of funny we've never had that as a thing.
snow in jamaica
Member
Well there was this in SMT4. Easy quest to miss!
cj_iwakura
Member
Well there was this in SMT4. Easy quest to miss!
Oh yeah. Probably not as hard as it would be in Nocturne, though.
snow in jamaica
Member
Yeah it'd be done in a turn or two I think.
Wow, I don't remember that quest at all, and I'm pretty sure I did all of the side-quests. Unless it's a Fiend fight? I never got around to those because 1/74291475683 chance of encounter is just not something I want to deal with.
Also, is it normal to be in a constant state of wanting to replay Nocturne but never getting around to it because you still have other titles in the franchise to play
Also, is it normal to be in a constant state of wanting to replay Nocturne but never getting around to it because you still have other titles in the franchise to play
cj_iwakura
Member
I personally ache whenever I see someone say "I need to get to that one day". I want to grab them by the shoulders like Max would and say "NOW. FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLAY IT NOW".
NeonZ
Member
It's not an actual Fiend fight. It's a quest you get in Infernal Tokyo when returning there after defeating Lucifer/Merkabah. It might be new game + only too. They're much weaker than the Fiends from the actual Fiend battles though, so it's not really hard at all.
snow in jamaica
Member
You should do it if you're in the mood probably.
If you haven't gotten around to playing DDS then it's time to ramble about DDS.
I'll be reading some Quantum Devil Saga soon!
If you haven't gotten around to playing DDS then it's time to ramble about DDS.
I'll be reading some Quantum Devil Saga soon!
cj_iwakura
Member
My delayed replay is Raidou 2. Just put it down and never got back to it for some reason, I was going after Lucy.
snow in jamaica
Member
I put down Nocturne because my insight sucks. I could have better things to post about it in the anniversary thread but oh well.
IRL problems interfere with it too but I still don't have confidence in whatever I write about it.
IRL problems interfere with it too but I still don't have confidence in whatever I write about it.
SMT3 is tough to write about because it basically reduces you to the level of a gushing teenager. You want to write this soaring prose to meet the game at it's level but it's impossible to convey how masterfully everything works together without coming across as a hyperbolic idiot. Replaying the game for the first time in a decade, with the added perspective of finishing the rest of the series, is basically the most blissful gaming experience of the year. And this has been a great year!
SatelliteOfLove
Member
Have tried many a time, can confirm.
cj_iwakura
Member
The day I got to start up Nocturne was the most religious experience of my life.
I don't deserve to replay Nocturne until I get around to DDS and Strange Journey. It's seppuku-worthy how I still haven't beaten the other top dogs in the franchise.
I feel you, I think I only have DDS2 and Raidou 2 left, but I'm saving that replay for after those even though I constantly get the urge to start it right away. I feel like replaying it as an adult will add a lot to the experience too, can't wait!
snow in jamaica
Member
I totally overlooked the visual motif of vortexes in Nocturne the first time around. It's called the Vortex World! There are the spinning terminals, the coiled Magatama, the zen garden ripples on the sand, the spiral painting in the hospital lobby, the triskele in the sky, the elder Manikin's spiral-patterned swastika rug (the swastika already being a vortical symbol on its own), the spiral structures such as the kila descent in the Assembly of Nihilo and ascent at the end of the Tower of Kagutsuchi, etc.
Magicpaint
Member
It's a shame to see that there's nothing that has been done about the PS3 PAL Nocturne (Lucifer's Call). I went through it recently and it still crashes after defeating the Kagatsuchi. It sort of had a similar problem on PS2 but changing up the setting (mostly the Hz setting) you could get lucky and still get to the true final boss, but on PS3 it has been impossible.
snow in jamaica
Member
Nocturne's game over screen seems to crib this Gustave Doré illustration for The Divine Comedy. It's also yet another spiral in the game!
archnemesis
Member
When is the release date?
archnemesis
Member
Thanks! I'll make a mental note to pick it up then.