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gutshot · Apr 7, 2017

ZealousD said:
Guys, there's a reason we do the re-review a full two months or more out after the expansion. People are kneejerking like fuuuuck.

Agree that it is too early to make sweeping statements about the meta at this point. But I don't think there has ever been a deck to come out of the gate as strong as Quest Rogue that didn't go on to become a Tier 1/2 deck.

Yes, it's early but I would be very surprised if Quest Rogue is out of the meta within a month or two (barring nerfs ofc).

Dahbomb · Apr 7, 2017

MonorailCat said:
Haven't played with the deck yet, but there is one thing I don't get:

Looking through the decklist, how would that deck ever beat a facedeck like pirates? Isn't that a hard counter?

You get the quest early and you make a big/wide board fast.

Certainly doable for the Rogue player but that's their only bad match up.

Which sucks because just like Jades... you beat Quest Rogue by going under it.

peakish · Apr 7, 2017

I can't hold all these spells help

Yaboosh · Apr 7, 2017

BananasWithGuns said:
This is what I'm running right now. It's dragon with a lot of card thievery stuff. I'm sure it could still use some refinement but I'm both surprised and impressed with how well it's doing for me so far.

Have you not been seeing too many rogues? I would think double dragonfire instead of one holy Nova would be appropriate if you are.

Peléo · Apr 7, 2017

Trying out Zoo and so far seems powerful. Some new Un'Goro cards are doing great, especially Devilsaur Egg and Ravenous Pterrodax. Ravasaur Runt is also quite decent, getting Mini-Bot or +3 Health is insane in Zoo. Not as good as Peddler. Deck really misses Power Overwhelming and Imp Gang Boss though. I've tried the 3/1 Summon 2 1/1 minions but it's shit. Will try a more minion heavy list with Sea Giant's later. Here is what I'm running:

Deck is also doing well against Quest Rogue. Unless Rogue starts playing Thalnos, Sap or Sergeant Sally Zoo will be favoured.

V-Faction · Apr 7, 2017

Quest Rogue is Tier-5.

Tier 5/5, that is. Gooh-hoo-hoo-hoo!!

Yaboosh · Apr 7, 2017

miladesn said:
It usually doesn't. Actually the worst match up for it is aggro druid and zoo. There is no comeback for the deck, go wide on board it's over.

I feel like the deck right now is greedy. Moroes and violet teacher feel like they will be gone from the deck in a month. It could easily be tuned to have more comeback mechanics I think.

Glass Shark · Apr 7, 2017

Familienoberhauptvogel · Apr 7, 2017

Yaboosh said:
I feel like the deck right now is greedy. Moroes and violet teacher feel like they will be gone from the deck in a month. It could easily be tuned to have more comeback mechanics I think.

I've cut those for the finja package but the build is still super greedy. With all the bounce it should be possible to run healing and other tech cards that vastly improve difficult matchups

BananasWithGuns · Apr 7, 2017

Yaboosh said:
Have you not been seeing too many rogues? I would think double dragonfire instead of one holy Nova would be appropriate if you are.

I haven't myself, but yeah I agree with you. If you're running into a lot of Rogues I'd go with second Dragonfire, potentially even cutting the Songstealer as well.

gutshot · Apr 7, 2017

BananasWithGuns said:
This is what I'm running right now. It's dragon with a lot of card thievery stuff. I'm sure it could still use some refinement but I'm both surprised and impressed with how well it's doing for me so far.

Similar to what I'm running with one big difference being I went with Blazecallers instead of Drakes. How have they been performing for you?

wiibomb · Apr 7, 2017

I can't believe Time warp stacks...

not that I think it would matter, there are not much options to duplicate the spells in hand, but it is very interesting.

BreezyLimbo · Apr 7, 2017

thepotatoman said:
I absolutely love murloc paladin. So good in this meta. I bet long term 80% winrate vs Quest Rogue easily.

Decklist

Rogue already ready to coin out quest turn 4? Still will never beat this board.

Very cool. Will have to check this deck out

BananasWithGuns · Apr 7, 2017

gutshot said:
Similar to what I'm running with one big difference being I went with Blazecallers instead of Drakes. How have they been performing for you?

The Primordial Drakes? I like them a hell of a lot, they've come up clutch for me so many times. In my opinion I think they're a big reason why dragon Priest can stick around. Well, after Operative of course lol.

CarbonatedFalcon · Apr 7, 2017

Exodia Mage is bullshit, lol.

It's essentially the new freeze mage. Same shit with hiding behind Ice Block(s) until they can assemble their combo.

Doesn't even matter how much HP you have, since the combo does infinite damage.

Mobius and pet octopus · Apr 7, 2017

I wonder if there are any rick and morty references

Too bad there are no pirates.

MrPing1000 · Apr 7, 2017

It's tough being F2P but at least secret Mage with no new cards can actually beat quest rogue.

squidyj · Apr 7, 2017

day 2 quest
"play 50 rogue cards"

Karsticles · Apr 7, 2017

MrPing1000 said:
It's tough being F2P but at least secret Mage with no new cards can actually beat quest rogue.

Definitely add the new 2/3 that draws a secret - what's your list? I want to try out a Tempo Secret Mage.

Tacitus_ · Apr 7, 2017

"Your opponent left"
Playing pirates with Magni skin, the scumbag.

Drkirby · Apr 7, 2017

I strategically play Murloc Shaman as Thrall, so the enemy expects me to play elemental shaman.

MrPing1000 · Apr 7, 2017

Karsticles said:
Definitely add the new 2/3 that draws a secret - what's your list? I want to try out a Tempo Secret Mage.

Oh yeah I have one of those, forgot about that heh

Kabal Lackey x 2
Mana Wyrm x 2
Arcanologist
Frostbolt x 2
Medivh's Valet x 2
Sorcerer's Apprentice x 2
Acolyte of Pain
Arcane Intellect x 2
Counterspell x 2
Ice Block
Kirin Tor Mage x 2
Mirror Entity x 2
Potion of Polymorph
Volcanic Potion
Ethereal Arcanist x 2
Fireball x 2
Kabal Crystal Runner x 2
Flamestrike

Just fiddling with it atm, got to rank 14 pretty easy. Prob going to drop flamestrike for a polymorph or something.

peakish · Apr 7, 2017

This goddamn Hearthstone client

Put 2x Northshire Clerics on board

Went to heal my other minion, got hit by a common lagspike and hit my full health guy instead

"Well played"

RedZaraki · Apr 7, 2017

IceMarker · Apr 7, 2017

Crystal Core the new most rage-inducing card for me. Fuck you Blizzard for printing this shit.

wiibomb · Apr 7, 2017

RedZaraki said:
Streamers reviewing "The Caverns Below":

Lifecoach:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-gSbP24XbuE&t=40m53s

it's almost a parody at this point how lifecoach was so so off on the card on this expansion

Grief.exe · Apr 7, 2017

wiibomb said:
it's almost a parody at this point how lifecoach was so so off on the card on this expansion

He also said Blizzard shouldn't print Marsh Queen. Seems ineffective from what I've seen so far.

squidyj · Apr 7, 2017

you know what's great? the background audio for ungoro packs. I wish i could set that as my regular background audio for all of hearthstone.

wiibomb · Apr 7, 2017

Grief.exe said:
He also said Blizzard shouldn't print Marsh Queen. Seems ineffective from what I've seen so far.

yeah exactly, in fact, he almost made it seem like the last reason why he quit HS, which seems so off now

squidyj said:
you know what's great? the background audio for ungoro packs. I wish i could set that as my regular background audio for all of hearthstone.

This one is my favorite, but in the past I actually went to select BRM banner just to hear it, it was a pretty nice theme

f0lken · Apr 7, 2017

Dahbomb said:
They have to god damn nerf Patches at the bare minimum in 2 weeks.

What needs to be nerfed is charge, is the one ability that needs its cards constantly nerfed, from patron warrior, to Leeroy increased cost, to golem, etc.

You see the dinosaur this expansion that has charge but can't attack heroes its first turn? Every minion with charge should be like that.

Htown · Apr 7, 2017

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=232560860#post232560860

Rogue Quest looks awful.

Man, that Rogue quest reward seems awful. Guess we won't see much change to Rogue decks.

I see Blizzard still has no idea what to do with Rogue.

That quest seems horrible on first glance. Even if you have your deck stacked to try and duplicate or replay cards, you lose consistency from the getgo by having the quest in your opener and with 2 base copies at max you may not draw both very quickly and will be very draw dependent to even fulfill the quest while the others shown so far are way easier to complete.

Rogue quest is a bit underwhelming. I guess the idea is to complete it early and immediately drop the core on turn 5 but yeah, I don't see this being too great.

So you are supposed to make a deck full of Shadowsteps and Brewmasters to bounce back stuff? And then finish the game with some 5/5 Stonetusks Boars or something?

Yeah, that's gonna work. /eyeroll

So rogue gets a shit legendary and a shit quest

Quest Rogue. The new Tier 5 meta.

That said, I don't think the Quest Rogue is quite as good as it looks right now. Midrange decks can stomp on it pretty hard.

Drkirby · Apr 7, 2017

So, how do you play to counter the Rogue Quest? Do you just need to silence their death rattle elemental minion, and kill anything they put on the board?

FeD.nL · Apr 7, 2017

f0lken said:
What needs to be nerfed is charge, is the one ability that needs its cards constantly nerfed, from patron warrior, to Leeroy increased cost, to golem, etc.

You see the dinosaur this expansion that has charge but can't attack heroes its first turn? Every minion with charge should be like that.

Yup, so much this.

I think the whole thing with the Rogue quest too, the most annoying thing is Patches/Deckhand/Boar getting played and bounced once or twice for 10/25 dmg depending on their hand. There is very little counter play involved there beyond playing a taunt.

gutshot · Apr 7, 2017

Lifecoach gonna quit HS out of embarrassment now.

sibarraz · Apr 7, 2017

f0lken said:
What needs to be nerfed is charge, is the one ability that needs its cards constantly nerfed, from patron warrior, to Leeroy increased cost, to golem, etc.

You see the dinosaur this expansion that has charge but can't attack heroes its first turn? Every minion with charge should be like that.

I don't know, I feel that cards like leeroy are fine as how they are, since it's a win condition, stonetusk boar too, he is only good now because one deck akes him op, but without the quest he is still a mediocre card at worst. Besides, the game needs some sort of aggro, otherwise the game could get as bad with only control heavy decks, and there also games last longer, the only concern is not make aggro THAT good

And now the only charge card that is a problem right now is patches, since you get him for free no matter what, and now is more obscene thanks to rogue quest.

I forgot southsea, yeah, that card is op too

peakish · Apr 7, 2017

Dafuq, the 5/5s cant be silenced but Edwin still gains his attack? That seems ... inconsistent.

Familienoberhauptvogel · Apr 7, 2017

I don't remember saying anything about the rogue quest, I just rated it a 1.

Vanillalite · Apr 7, 2017

Basically Rogue broken and OP?

MrPing1000 · Apr 7, 2017

ok counterspelling crystal core is hilarious.

Htown · Apr 7, 2017

peakish said:
Dafuq, the 5/5s cant be silenced but Edwin still gains his attack? That seems ... inconsistent.

This is my only problem with the Rogue Quest.

If the minions were always 5/5 regardless of buffs or whatever, that would be fine. But as it is, you can't silence them below 5/5, but they CAN go HIGHER.

The whole thing is counterintuitive and contrary to how Hearthstone usually works. You should be able to silence them.

Drkirby · Apr 7, 2017

Familienoberhauptvogel said:
I don't remember saying anything about the rogue quest, I just rated it a 1.

People expected it to be harder to do. But really, you just need to bounce the same minion 2 or 3 times, which isn't actually that hard. Plus, they play the cards the produce 1/2 elemental tokens for redundancy.

ZealousD · Apr 7, 2017

gutshot said:
Agree that it is too early to make sweeping statements about the meta at this point. But I don't think there has ever been a deck to come out of the gate as strong as Quest Rogue that didn't go on to become a Tier 1/2 deck.

Yes, it's early but I would be very surprised if Quest Rogue is out of the meta within a month or two (barring nerfs ofc).

I'm not even convinced that it's that strong. I think people either aren't recognizing how to counter it or they aren't playing the kinds of decks that counter it.

Quest Rogue spends a lot of time dicking around in the early game bouncing stuff back and forth from the hand. There's at least four turns of prep time where you're doing things like playing weak minions or bouncing stuff where you're sacrificing a ton of tempo and early game board presence in order to fulfill the requirements of the quest. Efficient removal like backstab and eviscerate can only get you so far.

So how do you counter it? Do all the dumb aggro or curvestone stuff that Hearthstone is known for. Play early game stuff and exert pressure on your opponent. If you can establish a board before the Rogue can, then you can clear out any tiny minions they do have before they go into their Turn 5 where they play the quest. If they don't prep the quest out, then they can't establish a board on the same turn they play the quest. That gives you a full turn to conquer the board even further and punish them. The deck doesn't have any taunts or healing so from this point on you can take advantage of your early game push and race them down.

Zoggy · Apr 7, 2017

I also thought rogue had the worst quest.

Glad they're on top

thepotatoman · Apr 7, 2017

Damn heroic strike. Why am I even running Golakka Crawler if they always have that in their opening hand?

Emerson · Apr 7, 2017

Haven't been able to pay a ton of attention, has any degenerate aggro shit started to take over the meta yet?

If the meta solidifies as-was last night I'd be quite happy. Was really enjoying playing Taunt/Quest Warrior and TTK Mage as well as Quest Rogue.

Htown · Apr 7, 2017

thepotatoman said:
Damn heroic strike. Why am I even running Golakka Crawler if they always have that in their opening hand?

I feel like Crawler probably isn't best played on curve early. It's better as a tech card for later when they drop an arcanite reaper into bloodsail raider or something like that.

Emerson said:
Haven't been able to pay a ton of attention, has any degenerate aggro shit started to take over the meta yet?

If the meta solidifies as-was last night I'd be quite happy. Was really enjoying playing Taunt/Quest Warrior and TTK Mage as well as Quest Rogue.

People are still experimenting, but Pirate Warrior seems like it's still strong. I'd be more worried about midrange decks and the return of Shamanstone, really.

Grief.exe · Apr 7, 2017

The Rogue and Hunter quests are relatively similar. Just fill your decks with one drops.

After the quest is complete, every Rogue draw will be a huge tempo play, while draws in the Hunter deck have a higher chance of being a dead card.

ZealousD · Apr 7, 2017

Grief.exe said:
The Rogue and Hunter quests are relatively similar. Just fill your decks with one drops.

After the quest is complete, every Rogue draw will be a huge tempo play, while draws in the Hunter deck have a higher chance of being a dead card.

So Hunter should just not play the quest. Don't skip Turn 1. Play Alley Cat into Crackling Razormaw and just smorc the face like Hunters do.

Htown · Apr 7, 2017

Grief.exe said:
The Rogue and Hunter quests are relatively similar. Just fill your decks with one drops.

I think this is the wrong way to go about it for hunter. Instead, it's probably better to use the elemental cards that generate 1 drops, and go more midrange with the actual deck construction.

ZealousD said:
So Hunter should just not play the quest. Don't skip Turn 1. Play Alley Cat into Crackling Razormaw and just smorc the face like Hunters do.

this is also correct

psyfi · Apr 7, 2017

My priest build got hit hard with the move to the new year, so I'm playing wild for the first time. It's nuts man, there's some majorly broken cards I've never seen before! It's cool, but I don't see myself sticking around after I get a standard deck put together again.

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