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BocoDragon
Banned
(09-11-2011, 04:30 AM)
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After 20 years of being an FF fan, through thick and thin, consider me officially unenthusiastic about the future of this series right now.

The worst part was that one comment about people being expected to grow out of FF. I dont think the original mandate of this series was to do CGI shounen manga for tweens, but it is now. They're basically targeting DBZ + the worst kimd of falsely manufactured melodrama, and I don't like it.

I once saw it as a tableau for various fantasy and sci-fi visions.. Now it's just shitty childrens Anime which aspires to nothing more.

Do the creators of Game of Thrones expect their audience to "grow out of it"? :P
Beth Cyra
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zing

You just wanted to do her doggy style while pulling her pigtails.

It's okay. We all do.

Yuck, I'd have to pass on this one.
Angry Fork
Spelling is Hard
(09-11-2011, 04:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by DR2K

Vanille is easily the best character in FFXIII. Hope XIII-3 is a prequel to 13, explaining her and Fang's story.

This. Vanille and Fang were my favorites from 13 by far. I'm hoping they make a solid appearance in 13-2 and 3.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
(09-11-2011, 04:31 AM)
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I don't remember having problems with the AI. The only time they derp is before I scan an enemy. Also, in the few instances I don't or can't, and they pull something the enemy is immune to they'd stop doing it for the remainder of the battle. At the same time, I was glad I had to micromanage my leader once in a while when they're not casting a specific spell or using a skill, the battles would have been too automated if I didn't, something a lot of people are complaining about.
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

There is a lot of dice rolling in JRPGs. In this case the dice can hit a natural 20 you can't easily recover from(as you could in most games). Killing the boss faster and a few accessories brings down your chances of "instant death" to a miniscule amount. Someone remind me if Sentinel can tank it too or not.

I'm sorry, I really don't see anything defensible about a game being able to dictate random Game Overs, no matter how unlikely.
Riposte
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Angry Fork

This. Vanille and Fang were my favorites from 13 by far. I'm hoping they make a solid appearance in 13-2 and 3.

You can travel back in time in FFXIII-2... oh god, that could turn out bad.


(Also FFXIII-3 doesn't exist.)


Originally Posted by Green Mamba

I'm sorry, I really don't see anything defensible about a game being able to dictate random Game Overs, no matter how unlikely.

So the mechanic is perfectly fine for 99.99% of the game then? Also for some reason random gameovers feels familiar in respect to Final Fantasy, can't put my finger on it.


EDIT: Btw, http://www.finalfantasyxiii-2.com/

ha.
Last edited by Riposte; 09-11-2011 at 04:42 AM.
Combichristoffersen
Combovers don't work when there is no hair
(09-11-2011, 04:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zing

You just wanted to do her doggy style while pulling her pigtails.

It's okay. We all do.

Why, I'd never!

It's true. Throw in Fang and Lightning too
jackdoe
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

Did anyone really find FFXIII that hard to begin with? I found a few of the hunts quite tough(didn't read any FAQs), but it was hardly because of the weakness of leader death.

It was never hard. The generous checkpoints made sure of that. It just ramped up frustration and kept players from playing as whoever they wanted to play with.
Riposte
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by jackdoe

It was never hard. The generous checkpoints made sure of that. It just ramped up frustration and kept players from playing as whoever they wanted to play with.

Okay... Did anyone who played whoever they wanted to play as find it hard?

I arbitrarily made my party(as long as it contained person who could switch to medic and later one sentinel, though sometimes neither of these) and basically used everyone equally in the party and as leader(which is how I play every JRPG when possible). The mechanic made harder than it would be without(since the game would have been extremely easy to turtle/zombie out with a medic/sentinel), but never enough to constrain my character choices. (In the harder battles it encouraged me to use Sentinel, to either get the monster off my main character or to bolster his/her defenses. Without that risk, they'd be no point really.)
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:49 AM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

So the mechanic is perfectly fine for 99.99% of the game then?

No, I wasn't really okay with it as you are partially also relying on AI that, while okay in some areas, is absolutely brain dead in others, with no control over what they're exactly doing outside of their general role and no direct control over where any party member is positioned despite the fact that positioning is actually very, very important to the battle system. The Alexander fight is almost a crapshoot because of this thanks to Hope occasionally deciding to stand right next to any Sentinel that might be in the area.

Oh, and that reminds me. Party leader death = Game Over also places bias over high HP characters as party leaders, limiting potential gameplay options. Having Hope leader is an awful idea for this mechanic and this mechanic only.

Like I said in my first post on the subject, it just strikes me as a very poorly thought out mechanic that they slapped on late in the game quick and dirty like to give the game an illusion of difficulty.

Originally Posted by Riposte

Also for some reason random gameovers feels familiar in respect to Final Fantasy, can't put my finger on it.

Meteor from FFIX dealt randomized damage to the whole party, potentially killing all of them. But I thought that was idiotic too.
jackdoe
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

Oh, and that reminds me. Party leader death = Game Over also places bias over high HP characters as party leaders, limiting potential gameplay options. Having Hope leader is an awful idea for this mechanic and this mechanic only.

I disagree. The higher HP characters were usually not medics and damage can be dealt rather quickly. The bias pretty much means that Lightning is probably the best option to be leader most of the time cause she had higher HP than Hope, but she could heal herself unlike Snow or Fang.
Riposte
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

to give the game an illusion of difficulty.

Illusions are not real. You are giving testimony on how this change has very real effects on combat by making the player vulnerable. Illusion of difficulty would be if the player only thought he was vulnerable in this way but really wasn't.
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 04:58 AM)
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Originally Posted by jackdoe

I disagree. The higher HP characters were usually not medics and damage can be dealt rather quickly. The bias pretty much means that Lightning is probably the best option to be leader most of the time cause she had higher HP than Hope, but she could heal herself unlike Snow or Fang.

Yeah, you're probably right. It's been a while since I played it. But yeah, it definitely places bias on someone.

Originally Posted by Riposte

Illusions are not real. You are giving testimony on how this change has very real effects on combat by making the player vulnerable. Illusion of difficulty would be if the player only thought he was vulnerable in this way but really wasn't.

I would argue that there's a difference between video game difficulty and crap that's out of your hands. The things I mentioned earlier (AI decisions you can't control and positioning that you can't control) are the latter. It's not genuine difficulty, it's just stupid. That's what I meant by illusion. It's something for the game makers to put a check next to the "difficulty" box.

My belief here is that too much of the game is put on autopilot for there to be a mechanic like party leader death = Game Over.
Rahxephon91
Banned
(09-11-2011, 05:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

Being lucky doesn't prevent it from being shitty game design.

I've beaten the game four times. It's not luck. I just make sure my health is up in case the attack happens.
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:08 AM)
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Originally Posted by Rahxephon91

I've beaten the game four times. It's not luck. I just make sure my health is up in case the attack happens.

Your health has nothing to do with whether or not you're killed by Progenitorial Wrath. The Instant Death it deals is pure status effect. I think you're thinking of Merciless Judgment, the move that puts everyone in the red (and can potentially kill you if you're poisoned).

And yes, it is luck.
Rahxephon91
Banned
(09-11-2011, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

Your health has nothing to do with whether or not you're killed by Progenitorial Wrath. I think you're thinking of Merciless Judgment, the move that puts everyone in the red (and can potentially kill you if you're poisoned).

And yes, it is luck.

Yes I guess you are right. Well I've never encountered this problem. Must be real annoyance since even Shane Beth complains about it.
Kyoufu
(09-11-2011, 05:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

Your health has nothing to do with whether or not you're killed by Progenitorial Wrath. The Instant Death it deals is pure status effect. I think you're thinking of Merciless Judgment, the move that puts everyone in the red (and can potentially kill you if you're poisoned).

And yes, it is luck.

Cherub's Crown and Ribbon help a lot.

Never had problems against it without these items, personally. I know the boss will OHKO me if I take too long to kill it, so what I do is... I kill it fast.
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Cherub's Crown and Ribbon help a lot.

But do not give you 100% protection. Nothing can. That's the crux of my entire argument. There's nothing you can do to prevent the game from getting a really good roll and just deciding to kill you. You can stack the odds against it, but there's nothing to prevent it completely. I just think that's indefensibly awful game design.
Kyoufu
(09-11-2011, 05:15 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

But do not give you 100% protection. Nothing can. That's the crux of my entire argument. There's nothing you can do to prevent the game from getting a really good roll and just deciding to kill you. You can stack the odds against it, but there's nothing to prevent it completely. I just think that's indefensibly awful game design.

It shouldn't be in the game I agree, but from what I remember, every "doom" casted in the game was due to you taking too long. Battles in FFXIII are designed to encourage speed.
Mechanized
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:32 AM)
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Started replaying FFXIII today since FFXIII-2 was kinda hyping me, but after 45 minutes I remembered why I never played the game more than 10 hours.

The world design is so goddamn weird. It's so angular and like, paper cut-out looking or plain(don't know how to describe this, everything looks like flat sheets of metal slapped together) and sparse. Leader death = game over is retarded. There is no defending this. So as good as the battle system is, not being able to control your allies makes it stupid. I hate the lore and terminology created for the game, the story is pretty weak, filled with overcomplicated bullshit, most of the characters do not appeal to me at all.

I got to the part where Snow saves Lightning and Hope from being captured and the cinematic where he casts a spell with Shiva is just... weird. It doesn't look right. The art direction just doesn't feel right, but the effects do look impressive, there's a ton of shit going on. But it doesn't feel like Final Fantasy to me anymore. Unfortunately I think I'm done with the series outside of playing remakes of everything before 10.

So to say the idea of ANOTHER sequel to FFXIII isn't what I'm looking for would be an understatement.
Pyrrhus
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

After 20 years of being an FF fan, through thick and thin, consider me officially unenthusiastic about the future of this series right now.

The worst part was that one comment about people being expected to grow out of FF. I dont think the original mandate of this series was to do CGI shounen manga for tweens, but it is now. They're basically targeting DBZ + the worst kimd of falsely manufactured melodrama, and I don't like it.

I once saw it as a tableau for various fantasy and sci-fi visions.. Now it's just shitty childrens Anime which aspires to nothing more.

Do the creators of Game of Thrones expect their audience to "grow out of it"? :P

Very well said. I agree pretty much entirely with your assessment.
Shadow780
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:34 AM)
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I never even saw the Doom spell from Final Boss when I beat it, I had to load back my save to watch it when people complained about in the OT.
Green Mamba
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(09-11-2011, 05:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadow780

I never even saw the Doom spell from Final Boss, I had to load back my save to watch it when people complained about in the OT.

By "Doom spell" do you mean Doom itself or Progenitorial Wrath, the instant kill move?

Because I have a hard time believing you never saw him cast Progenitorial Wrath. You probably did, it just missed.
PokéKong
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:35 AM)
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I agree with Green Mamba. I understand what the developers wanted to do, they wanted to be radical and innovative with the whole turnbased RPG system and throw out the manual, so they tried a few extreme idea but then had to keep stacking other ridiculous things on top of them in an attempt to balance it out. For example, the random AI roll = game over and party leader death = game over was countered by the fact that game overs mean almost nothing and you can just start the battles all over.
Kyoufu
(09-11-2011, 05:39 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

By "Doom spell" do you mean Doom itself or Progenitorial Wrath, the instant kill move?

Because I have a hard time believing you never saw him cast Progenitorial Wrath. You probably did, it just missed.

Never casted it when I did it for myself and for my friend. Like I said, it only does it if you take too long to kill it on each phase.

Same goes for the previous bosses too. They want speed from you, hence the rating system at the end of fights.
Shadow780
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:40 AM)
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Originally Posted by Green Mamba

By "Doom spell" do you mean Doom itself or Progenitorial Wrath, the instant kill move?

Both, I think. I didn't die instantly and I don't remember Doom's been cast.

Yes, I've completed all the side quests and massacred Guis to get all the trophies before I took on the final boss.
jackdoe
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadow780

Yes, I've completed all the side quests and massacred Guis to get all the trophies before I took on the final boss.

Haha. I personally didn't do this because I hit the level cap. So I thought I'd go back after I beat the boss, unlock the level cap, and finish the side quests. Unfortunately, the ending left a sour taste in my mouth and I didn't go back.
Green Mamba
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:42 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Never casted it when I did it for myself and for my friend. Like I said, it only does it if you take too long to kill it on each phase.

Same goes for the previous bosses too. They want speed from you, hence the rating system at the end of fights.

I could have swore he did it at random after so much of his health was gone. It's been a while sine I played it, so I'm probably wrong on this point.

Originally Posted by Shadow780

Yes, I've completed all the side quests and massacred Guis to get all the trophies before I took on the final boss.

Jeezus. I couldn't even imagine what it'd be like to fight the Guis prior to the tenth Crystarium level.

EDIT: Let alone Mission 62.
Shadow780
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:45 AM)
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Oh that's right, you unlock shits after you beat the game, man this game was too unimpressionable for me to remember anything worthy of significance.

I may get the Gui parts wrong but I think I've done everything that can be done before the final boss, the hunting missions, and grinding those 1% drops Z-whateverthefuck. WORST IDEA EVER.
jaxword
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:51 AM)
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I liked the town of Nautilus in FF13, where there were lots of NPCs to talk to and treasures to be found and little NON-world ending minigames.
Kyoufu
(09-11-2011, 05:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shadow780

I may get the Gui parts wrong but I think I've done everything that can be done before the final boss, the hunting missions, and grinding those 1% drops Z-whateverthefuck. WORST IDEA EVER.

Was pretty easy farming them if you just re-load your save. Tedious, but didn't take long to get them all.
Shadow780
Member
(09-11-2011, 05:57 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kyoufu

Was pretty easy farming them if you just re-load your save. Tedious, but didn't take long to get them all.

I grinded where you first encounter those things at the city with Sazh and his Transformer to take off its legs. Turns out there are more efficient ways to grind them later on that I didn't know at the time, probably could save a lot of time too.
Perfo
Thirteen flew over the cuckoo's nest
(09-11-2011, 06:24 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ether_Snake

Errr, it's not like these FFXIII sequels are free to make. So they manage to maybe sell 7.5m copies total for three games, but it still costs a lot of money to make and market each title.

Probably always less than re-creating from zero new game, new assets, new story, characters models, enimes ect. ect. ect.
How much time FFXIII-2 required? 1,5 yrs to develop.
How much Versus is taking? ;)


Originally Posted by Rahxephon91

Man I really liked the cast of XIII. I thought it was the most well rounded cast Ive seen. Not most memorable or best though.

And I agree with you. It's probably also the 1st FF where every character in the main party is really developed.
Dunan
Member
(09-11-2011, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

After 20 years of being an FF fan, through thick and thin, consider me officially unenthusiastic about the future of this series right now.

The worst part was that one comment about people being expected to grow out of FF. I dont think the original mandate of this series was to do CGI shounen manga for tweens, but it is now. They're basically targeting DBZ + the worst kimd of falsely manufactured melodrama, and I don't like it.

I once saw it as a tableau for various fantasy and sci-fi visions.. Now it's just shitty childrens Anime which aspires to nothing more.

Do the creators of Game of Thrones expect their audience to "grow out of it"? :P

This is it right here.

I too remember that quote from Kitase, and should have seen what it was going to mean. Instead, I was still hyped up about the amazing worlds that Cocoon and Pulse looked to be and what a fantastic game could be made with FF12's mechanics in a futuristic world.

I fondly remember the moment when playing FF12 and basking in its beautiful English translation and thinking, "Wow, SE really knows how to do it. Here I am, an 30-year-old adult who's been playing this series since childhood, and their games are still as fun and engaging as ever."

That game contained English words that I, a native speaker, had never heard before! It was a great experience.

Even after FFXII:IZJS, Itō said in an interview that he wanted not just to make a great game but also to recapture fans who amy have wandered away from the series -- obviously these aren't 14-year-old kids he's talking about. He wanted to show mature fans how the series had matured and what it was like now. And in my mind he did a wonderful job.

Contrast that with Kitase's warning that the maturity level was about to fall off a cliff.

I sure hope Itō and his team are working on something now. Leaving one of gaming's great series in the hands of people like Kitase and Toriyama and their adolescent garbage is a crime.
MechaX
Member
(09-11-2011, 08:35 AM)
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Originally Posted by Riposte

You can travel back in time in FFXIII-2... oh god, that could turn out bad.

Hopefully they will completely rip off Radiant Historia and firmly put the foot down against time traveling into the past.
Arcblade
Banned
(09-11-2011, 09:28 AM)

Originally Posted by Narcosis

I take it you never played Star Ocean 3 and 4, or Enchanted Arms, or that console-tan RPG on the PS3, or hell, anything from Gust or Idea Factory?

Yes, yes I have.

Reimi solos the entire FF13 cast.

Gust and Idea Factory haven't managed to sink as far into the gutter of character design as FF13 has.

And that's not for lack of trying.
Rahxephon91
Banned
(09-11-2011, 09:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Arcblade


Gust and Idea Factory haven't managed to sink as far into the gutter of character design as FF13 has.

Aren't their games full of moe characters? Yeah I'll take XIII's character designs over that.
Arcblade
Banned
(09-11-2011, 09:41 AM)

Originally Posted by Rahxephon91

Aren't their games full of moe characters? Yeah I'll take XIII's character designs over that.

*cough* Hope *cough*

I'll take gender proper Moe over that one, thank you.
Rahxephon91
Banned
(09-11-2011, 09:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Arcblade

*cough* Hope *cough*

I'll take gender proper Moe over that one, thank you.

Hope is moe? He looks like a 14 year old teenager as seen in Japan. His hair kind of looks like the lead of Macross. I'm not sure what's moe about him. He dosent look like a little girl that I want to protect and then rape. I guess he panders to the yaoi crowed.
Jarmel
place a shoe on my head
to reduce lag compensation
(09-11-2011, 09:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Arcblade

*cough* Hope *cough*

I'll take gender proper Moe over that one, thank you.

You mean Vanille.
Megidolaon
Member
(09-11-2011, 09:49 AM)
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Yeah, Vanille is far worse than Hope. Her mannerisms and high pitched voice are straight out of a moe anime.

And Serah was specifically designed to be "cute" by Toriyama's request.
Jinfash
needs 2 extra inches
(09-11-2011, 09:53 AM)
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Next to Vanille, Hope (during the first half) and Snow, Serah was pretty tame.
Megidolaon
Member
(09-11-2011, 10:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by Jinfash

Next to Vanille, Hope (during the first half) and Snow, Serah was pretty tame.

Really? I found her character unbearably annoying. Her whole existence was "omg protect me". I hate characters like that. And her vapid personality combined with her "super kawaii" design AND the fact that the other characters never shut up about her (mostly Snow and Lightning) despite her 10 minutes of screen time was soooooo obnoxious.

I even (slightly) prefer Vanille. I'll take a character with a personality (albeit an extremely irritating one) than a fetish mannequin to serve as the token Damsel in Distress.
Nirolak
Mrgrgr
(12-04-2011, 05:41 AM)
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They've finally responded:

Originally Posted by GamingEverything

Square Enix comments on Final Fantasy XIII-3 domain registration
December 3rd, 2011 Posted in 360, News, PS3
Posted By: Valay

A few months ago, Corporation Service Company registered the domain finalfantasyxiii-3.com. This is the same company that has picked up other domains for Square Enix in the past.

Square Enix never truly commented on the domain filing – until now that is. The topic was quickly addressed on the latest episode of the Square Enix Channel podcast. Supposedly, the whole thing was merely a preventative measure done by company’s American division. That’s the official word from a Japanese PR representative.

It is a bit curious that the domain would be brought up again at this time. After all, finalfantasyxiii-3.com was registered almost three months ago.

Is Square Enix just playing coy for now? Or will we eventually see Final Fantasy XIII-3?

Source: http://gamingeverything.com/12452/sq...-registration/
The Praiseworthy
Member
(12-04-2011, 07:06 AM)
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I don't think they will make FFXIII-3..... they won't bored the fans with it, they will let it go and start working on the next univers of FF for the next generation consoles.
Jarmel
place a shoe on my head
to reduce lag compensation
(12-04-2011, 07:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Nirolak

They've finally responded:


Source: http://gamingeverything.com/12452/sq...-registration/

Just like SE to be late.
BocoDragon
Banned
(12-04-2011, 07:24 AM)
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I always found these things to be non-news. If I ran a corporation, I'd register all the way up to finalfantasyXIII-20.com just to make sure cyber-squatters don't get the best of me. What if XIII-2 was a crazy breakout hit, and you wanted to milk it? It's good to spend a couple hundred bucks just to preserve the option of milking it with sequels.
kevm3
Member
(12-04-2011, 07:26 AM)
Final Fantasy of Duty
Zeal
Banned
(12-04-2011, 07:27 AM)
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This is why Square is not allowed to make things like Chrono Trigger 2.
Nora Kisaragi
Banned
(12-04-2011, 07:29 AM)
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13-2 was announced and is being released before Versus, which was announced like five years ago by now.

If 13-3 is announced before versus is released there will be no survivors in the upcoming riot

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