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After replaying Mario World, I realized it's not all that. 3, YI and NSMBU are better
- Thread starter AuthenticM
- Start date
Common Knowledge
Member
I made a thread about SMW vs. the NSMB series a while back, and my feelings are more or less pretty similar to yours, OP. The NSMB series (deservedly) receive quite a bit of criticism for their lazy re-use of assets, and the DS and 3DS ones are a little so-so in gameplay quality, but NSMB U in particular I feel was pure excellence from a gameplay perspective and among the peak of 2D Mario platforming. It's a shame it was held back from being a Wii U game and just from being part of the "New" series, because honestly I think it holds its own when compared to the classics and in some ways surpasses them.
JimboJones
Member
I still love World but I've played it so many times it's actually got a bit boring to replay at this point.
NSMBwii and U where fantastic and where even a lot of fun in 2 player.
I was never much of a fan of 3 I mean it's ok but it just never clicked with me the way World or the NSMB series did.
NSMBwii and U where fantastic and where even a lot of fun in 2 player.
I was never much of a fan of 3 I mean it's ok but it just never clicked with me the way World or the NSMB series did.
Dreamwriter
Member
I think theres actually a couple technical reasons SMB3 has more varied environments/art-styles than SMW, and the reasons are they did it from necessity. And SMW didnt have the same necessities.
First off, with the NES limited color palettes per screen, they couldnt pull off a lot of variety in one tile set - you could do lots of good looking brown tiles, or lots of good looking green tiles, but not lots of good looking green tiles *and* brown tiles. So they made multiple tile sets with themes that all used the same palette set. SMW didnt have this limitation, so the levels had quite a lot more variety in terms of the artwork per-level, and they were able to keep to the tropical jungle theme for the entire game.
Also, SMB3 was designed with maximum replayability in mind, because (as some folk have mentioned) you cannot continue where you left off. Without a battery save, you are forced to replay the same levels again and again, each time making it closer to the end of the game. Without different art styles per world, or even variety in level mechanics, people would get bored of the game long before reaching the end. It also gives a better sense of progression as you replay the levels. But SMW, you only really needed to play the same levels until you passed them, then moved on, except for the occasional second-exit level or Switch unlock. You replayed the same levels far, far less often than SMB3, so they didnt need to break up the art style to keep people interested until they beat the game.
First off, with the NES limited color palettes per screen, they couldnt pull off a lot of variety in one tile set - you could do lots of good looking brown tiles, or lots of good looking green tiles, but not lots of good looking green tiles *and* brown tiles. So they made multiple tile sets with themes that all used the same palette set. SMW didnt have this limitation, so the levels had quite a lot more variety in terms of the artwork per-level, and they were able to keep to the tropical jungle theme for the entire game.
Also, SMB3 was designed with maximum replayability in mind, because (as some folk have mentioned) you cannot continue where you left off. Without a battery save, you are forced to replay the same levels again and again, each time making it closer to the end of the game. Without different art styles per world, or even variety in level mechanics, people would get bored of the game long before reaching the end. It also gives a better sense of progression as you replay the levels. But SMW, you only really needed to play the same levels until you passed them, then moved on, except for the occasional second-exit level or Switch unlock. You replayed the same levels far, far less often than SMB3, so they didnt need to break up the art style to keep people interested until they beat the game.
Toadthemushroom
Member
Four words: Cheese Bridge Secret Exit
Few Mario games reach the highs of Super Mario World: Cheese Bridge Secret Exit is a defining moment in 2D Mario - the designers had the courage to ask players to fly *under* the normal level exit.
Mario U is great, I'm surprised at the hate. As others have said, a new art direction and branding would have done a lot for its perception, but at the same time I can see why Nintendo kept it as part of the NSMB universe - the physics and enemy behaviour remains in line with those games.
Few Mario games reach the highs of Super Mario World: Cheese Bridge Secret Exit is a defining moment in 2D Mario - the designers had the courage to ask players to fly *under* the normal level exit.
Mario U is great, I'm surprised at the hate. As others have said, a new art direction and branding would have done a lot for its perception, but at the same time I can see why Nintendo kept it as part of the NSMB universe - the physics and enemy behaviour remains in line with those games.
Ha, and yet...
capylikesgames
Banned
As someone who's favorite 2D Mario is 3, and has become complacent with the fact that the majority will always prefer World over it, I can't help but thank you, OP. You've pretty much laid out my thoughts about World verbatim. Granted, not all of them, but it's almost cathartic to see a World fan realize all these little things about it.
One thing that bothers me is how it doesn't really push its hardware much, especially compared to Mario 3. Yeah, it expands on 3's mechanics here and there, but there's nothing that really showcases the SNES as anything more than the Genesis. I grew up with the SNES version of Mario 3, and there was something about going back to the NES version, and realizing "wow, mechanically, this is lightyears ahead of 1, and running on the same hardware".
Also, the visuals aren't awful, but feel wonky, and even lacking compared to games like Sonic 1. It seems like the devs were baffled by the palette bump, and never managed to develop a persistent art style for the game. It almost feels a little inconsistent between sprites, and the shading is overly simplistic, leading a to a rather flat look. This one's more subjective than anything else, but its always bugged me.
Despite all this, I still love World. I've gone back to it here and there in recent years, and have grown to appreciate it a lot more than I used to. It's a pretty great entry point into the series, mostly due in part to the Cape powerup. It'll never dethrone 3 as my favorite 2D installment, though.
One thing that bothers me is how it doesn't really push its hardware much, especially compared to Mario 3. Yeah, it expands on 3's mechanics here and there, but there's nothing that really showcases the SNES as anything more than the Genesis. I grew up with the SNES version of Mario 3, and there was something about going back to the NES version, and realizing "wow, mechanically, this is lightyears ahead of 1, and running on the same hardware".
Also, the visuals aren't awful, but feel wonky, and even lacking compared to games like Sonic 1. It seems like the devs were baffled by the palette bump, and never managed to develop a persistent art style for the game. It almost feels a little inconsistent between sprites, and the shading is overly simplistic, leading a to a rather flat look. This one's more subjective than anything else, but its always bugged me.
Despite all this, I still love World. I've gone back to it here and there in recent years, and have grown to appreciate it a lot more than I used to. It's a pretty great entry point into the series, mostly due in part to the Cape powerup. It'll never dethrone 3 as my favorite 2D installment, though.
pretty done
Member
nsmbu has better gameplay but the audio/visuals really ruin the series to me. The music and art is so damn bad.
I have always preferred the NSMB aesthetic compared to the older games, they seem more colorful and inviting and interesting, to me at least. But New Super Mario Bros U is not a good game, the level design was so boring, I struggled to make it more than half way in that game before getting too bored and giving up.
Why would you do that?
Member
The only reason why U was "bad" is because it came after three other extremely similar games with similar aesthetics and many of the same level gimmicks, but if it was the first in the series you played or weren't burned out by the other games, than it really was the best of the New SMB series (closely followed by New SMB Wii).
Super Luigi U was even better than that, to be honest... It really shook up the formula a lot in a way that gave a much needed boost of fun to the games. The levels are also shorter, like Mario 3 length, which is a plus if you love the fast progression of Mario 3 like I do.
Super Luigi U was even better than that, to be honest... It really shook up the formula a lot in a way that gave a much needed boost of fun to the games. The levels are also shorter, like Mario 3 length, which is a plus if you love the fast progression of Mario 3 like I do.
Nope.
NSMBU is a fantastic game with amazing level design that's brought down by art style and music that is reused.
But if you can look past that, it's one of the best 2D platformers around.
The one where nostalgia doesn't come into play.
NSMBU has better level design than SMW.
And I say this as someone who still adores SMW. It's my favorite of the original 2D Mario games.
Spiritual_Chaos
Banned
Coming off Super Mario Bros and Super Mario Bros 3, I have always felt that Super Mario World had a very scattered look to it. The art is uneven, and the visual look isn't as homogeneous as earlier titles - or later. It feels a bit thrown together and not as "pleasing" as SMB3 or even the New-series.
I love playing SMW. But I'm not a fan of how it looks. Would have loved to have gotten a straight sequel later in the SNES life when Nintendo ruled 16-bit art.
Yoshis Island is looking great ofc, but that is its own thing.
super mario world is perfect and is one of the best looking games of all time
16-bit perfection
sound design is also best in class which puts it above nsmbu easily. game feel >
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
Star World is almost entirely gimmick levels that lose their luster after you beat them once. 4 and 5 are both close enough to proper levels but they are really simple, easy ones.
Special World is a mixed bag. Honestly feels like a cutting room floor sort of thing where they weren't going to use the levels but added them in as extras and perhaps adjusted them for more challenge. It also contains the worst levels in the game. Again, does anyone like Tubular?
balladofwindfishes
Member
Yes, NSMBU is one of the best 2D Mario games ever made.
Tizoc
Member
This year I got the game on 3DS and beat it for the first time.
It's good but not for me, I wasn't all that impressed by it for one thing. The visuals are nice but feel too...'safe' I guess? Music is lovely, but the overall gameplay did nothing for me. Some good elements here and there but I just wasn't blown away by it or enjoyed it all too much.
I did rather enjoy Mario Land 1 GB, Mario 3D Land, Galaxy and Mario Bros. 1 and 3 though.
Might replay them again someday....
It's good but not for me, I wasn't all that impressed by it for one thing. The visuals are nice but feel too...'safe' I guess? Music is lovely, but the overall gameplay did nothing for me. Some good elements here and there but I just wasn't blown away by it or enjoyed it all too much.
I did rather enjoy Mario Land 1 GB, Mario 3D Land, Galaxy and Mario Bros. 1 and 3 though.
Might replay them again someday....
omgwtfbentime
Member
Ive argued this with a lot of people. The main things mario world has is great art style and music, and good satisfying control (though I get why some people cant get behind the floatiness). The difficulty curb seems all over the place and a lot of the games most satisfying levels are hidden behind secrets, and then some of the Star Road levels approach straight up rom hack levels of frustrating over fun. Its still an enjoyable romp but New super Mario U, 3, and Wii all surpass it IMO. Its also outclassed by a wide margin by the DKC games on SNES, id take any of the DKC games over Mario World.
bigbaldwolf86
Banned
I've always preferred 3 over World. The levels and design are leagues above World. NSMBU was pretty good as well.
Lupin the Third
Member
Sprites look mostly okay, but the backgrounds are busy for the sake of being busy and, going from memory, don't borrow enough variety from the color palette. They don't look that good.
Tizoc
Member
THANK CROM, I THOUGHT I WAS THE ONLY ONE WHO NOTICED THIS!
Seriously Mario felt oddly slippery when I was controlling him; it just wasn't right.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Yeah, SMW is a good game, but it's worse than NSMBU. I don't think any of them are high class masterpieces tbh
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
The portable NSMB games are the weaker entries, despite being the "numbered" ones.
NSMBU/NSLU > NSMBW >>> NSMB2 >>> NSMB
I disagree entirely.
Super Mario World's aesthetic is absolutely uplifting and amazing. Very charming and brings a special feeling to the game.
The controls are real nice. It feels easy to execute what I need to, even with the cape on when I want to float up and down.
The game being really easy is not actually a problem. Entertainment and fun win the day over difficulty. It's the most fun I've had in any Mario game.
The 96 exits are a perfect amount of gameplay for a Mario game. It's not too long and not too short. It's just right. Especially after playing NSMBU and Mario 3D Land. I think those games are too long if you want to do everything.
The only 2D Mario game that is on its level is Super Mario Bros. 3. If someone were to say that was a better game, I'd understand. I wouldn't agree but it's so good that it deserves the argument for sure.
I have played Mario Bros, SMB1, 2 US, and 3 before World so the "first time syndrome" excuse that people throw at Final Fantasy VII fans (which is also not justified) doesn't apply to me here.
So I'm going to take my ball and go home now but I respect your opinion, OP.
Super Mario World's aesthetic is absolutely uplifting and amazing. Very charming and brings a special feeling to the game.
The controls are real nice. It feels easy to execute what I need to, even with the cape on when I want to float up and down.
The game being really easy is not actually a problem. Entertainment and fun win the day over difficulty. It's the most fun I've had in any Mario game.
The 96 exits are a perfect amount of gameplay for a Mario game. It's not too long and not too short. It's just right. Especially after playing NSMBU and Mario 3D Land. I think those games are too long if you want to do everything.
The only 2D Mario game that is on its level is Super Mario Bros. 3. If someone were to say that was a better game, I'd understand. I wouldn't agree but it's so good that it deserves the argument for sure.
I have played Mario Bros, SMB1, 2 US, and 3 before World so the "first time syndrome" excuse that people throw at Final Fantasy VII fans (which is also not justified) doesn't apply to me here.
So I'm going to take my ball and go home now but I respect your opinion, OP.
nah NSMBU/NSLU is actually pretty good. Donkey Kong games are better though
Yeah I always felt that 3 was better than world, hands down.
Sun level alone is one of the most memorable things, ever..
Bucket Mouse
Member
"NSMBU is better than World" is the new "Revenge of the Sith is better than Return of the Jedi".
Tizoc
Member
i played NSMB DS years ago, I may replay it as well someday.
I need to finish up NSMB2 so I can see if I wanna sell it off to lighten my 3DS collection a bit
pirateluigi
Member
I gotta wonder how many of the people shitting on NSMBU even played it. Once you get past the stale art and music, that game had brilliant level design and gameplay.
As for SMW vs SMB3... SMW doesn't have the hammer bros suit.
As for SMW vs SMB3... SMW doesn't have the hammer bros suit.
SciencePilot
Member
Been a while since I played SMW, but I just played Yoshi's Island for the first time recently, and I was surprised how good it was. It really is a better game than SMW across the board. Looks better, has better physics, and is a more difficult and more inventive platformer, too.
EmCeeGramr
Member
Fun fact: when Mario World came out, it really wasn't seen as this incredible perfect hit. People in another thread on here marveled that it "only" got 8s and 9s from Famitsu, and plenty of reviews and consumer comments at the time remarked that the graphics didn't look nearly as outstanding as they assumed a SNES game would (they were right), or that the game basically looked and felt like a souped up NES title rather than a generational leap.
busy for the sake of being busy? wat
OrbitalBeard
Member
Levels in World are significantly longer than the levels in 3, so this isn't really a meaningful comparison.
That being said, 3 > World, all day, every day. The bite-sized levels in 3 are actually one of its biggest strengths. You're constantly seeing and doing something new.
pretty done
Member
Feels similarly slippery to me in SMB3 on SMAS.
Not that it's a bad thing... but Super Meat Boy level of control it is not.
Spyder_Monkey
Banned
For one thing World is so much better than 3, it has the better controls and level design. YI is also not better but that doesn't even play the same as World so the comparison is moot. U maybe, maybe comes close but IMO it's still not better. World is the best 2D Mario. Deal with it.
SpacePirate Ridley
Member
I have been replaying it my whole life and still think its the best. Sorry that you seem to have changed of opinion OP.
Also reading the typical bullshit here of "it usually their first one and that why they loved it"
No, I played 1, 2 (USA) and 3 before it. I beat 2 and 3 before it.
I could undertand some people having 3 as their favourite, or NSMBU. But at the end of the day is more different opinion than anything else.
Also reading the typical bullshit here of "it usually their first one and that why they loved it"
No, I played 1, 2 (USA) and 3 before it. I beat 2 and 3 before it.
I could undertand some people having 3 as their favourite, or NSMBU. But at the end of the day is more different opinion than anything else.
Your conclusion that SMB3 is the better game is correct, but you're too harshort on World.
- the Overworld Map in World doesn't have living, moving obstacles like 3 but it's far more dynamic. It winds and warps. It reaches above the clouds, far underground and into the depths of the forest. World doesn't have areas of distinct visual identity, but it still manages to portray a sense of progression.
- enemy variety is one thing the game has in spades. I don't even know where this criticism is coming from.
- the Overworld Map in World doesn't have living, moving obstacles like 3 but it's far more dynamic. It winds and warps. It reaches above the clouds, far underground and into the depths of the forest. World doesn't have areas of distinct visual identity, but it still manages to portray a sense of progression.
- enemy variety is one thing the game has in spades. I don't even know where this criticism is coming from.
It's literally nothing like that because Sith was a bad movie and Jedi was a good movie.
Oddly enough after replaying it recently I realized that it was every bit as good as I remembered, and that I wasn't just fooling myself when I thought there was something missing in the NSMB games. The levels don't just have more freedom than other 2D Mario games, they feel designed around that freedom in a way none of the other 2D Mario games are. The sole purpose of the cape (to the detriment of the game's difficulty, but still) is that it deliberately encourages players to search for new paths. There are all sorts of unexplained facets of the levels that will make almost anyone want to play through them again if they just play from them in a straight shot to the end the first time through.
LordRaptor
Member
I'm replaying SMW at the moment and enjoying how much its held up; I think the flying mechanics are some of the most enjoyable 'side controls' in the entire Mario series, and can imagine a hypothetical 'lost levels' style title having levels based around them like cheese bridge secret exit (although it seems most people 'cheese' that by ditching a yoshi instead)
also yeah, GAF are / were full of shit on NSMBU, its legitimately great.
also yeah, GAF are / were full of shit on NSMBU, its legitimately great.
Was with you until NSMBU. The game is still rather bland, albeit a step up from previous NSMB entries, but it unfortunately is still rife with the same control and level design issues of previous entries. It's the best of the NSMB games, but certainly a step below the best of the 2D Mario games.