• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Let's appreciate: Metal Gear Solid 2 - Sons of Liberty

_Bro

Banned
ryan-ts said:
For the people hating on this game you know what you should do? Stay far away from this thread as MGS2 super fans cannot judge quality nor can they carry on a conversation about actual good games. It's best to just let them live in their own fantasy world.


What? I'm not kidding
Gah, sub-fans. You're describing MGS fans in general, not those who think MGS2 is the bomb.

Kojima made people pay money for, pretty much, the original MGS. Then he insults them with Raiden. It's hilarious and enjoyable to play!
 

Calcaneus

Member
There's so much stuff in that game, it really feels like a whole experience. So many sequences and twists and turns, I wish more games had you doing as much stuff as this game did. That's why I love Kojima's games, they really have you doing a bunch of different things even within the frame of an action/stealth game.
 

sonicmj1

Member
I NEED SCISSORS said:
It was actually meant to be the last in the series, before Kojima went into permanent drama queen mode and Konami forced him to make more he couldn't let the series go.

Pretty much. The whole thing gets more and more ridiculous, layering insane conspiracies on top of each other, frustrating your every expectation at what Metal Gear is supposed to be, and every time Raiden (the player) asks for an explanation, Snake just says, "Dude, it's up to you. Take what you want, and pass it on." MGS2 basically begs the player to stop taking the events that occur in it seriously.

And then everyone said, "Kojima, please tell me what to think! Please tell me what happened!" And even though he had said during MGS2's development, "This is my Metal Gear and I can destroy it if I want to," he just had to keep going, because people kept asking for more from him. Even when he answers all their questions, they are never satisfied.

It's sort of sad, in a way. Someone posted a link to a big analysis of MGS4 in the official thread here, and while the whole thing largely consists of pointing out every moment in the game that references every other moment in the Metal Gear saga, the overall thesis seems to be that a franchise shouldn't continue indefinitely, because its reliance on its own tropes prevent it from creating something newer and better. If we assume that this analysis captures Kojima's intent, the entire message of MGS4 is that the Metal Gear series needs to die.

Next year, Metal Gear Solid (5?): Peace Walker is announced.
 
Green Scar said:
This was my first MGS. I loved it- so weird. But after playing Snake Eater, there's no way I could return to it, the gameplay wasn't polished enough.
Yeah, thats how i am with all Metal Gear games. But the first one is so old, that i can enjoy it today. I'm in the rare boat of the Metal Gear games getting better as the series goes on.
 

StuBurns

Banned
Green Scar said:
This was my first MGS. I loved it- so weird. But after playing Snake Eater, there's no way I could return to it, the gameplay wasn't polished enough.
I can't even imagine playing this one first. The whole point of the story is a ruse in the form of a repeat of something you hadn't even played. Must have been extra hard to follow for you.
 
StuBurns said:
I can't even imagine playing this one first. The whole point of the story is a ruse in the form of a repeat of something you hadn't even played. Must have been extra hard to follow for you.

Not really. I'd already spoiled myself by reading about MGS1 and 2 on Wikipedia. Websites like Gamesradar had already managed to spoil the big plot twist at the end of MGS2, so I figured I might as well learn the rest of what happened :lol

It was the nuts-sounding plot that encouraged me to buy MGS2, though. Which worked out awesome :)
 

Delriach

Banned
I remember when I bought the Metal Gear Solid 2 demo. I played it nonstop up until the release of SOL. So much fun just torturing guards.

That demo also came with an awesome free game >_>
 

Safe Bet

Banned
I never understood what Socrates was talking about until Mr. Kojima explained it to me.

We are merely reflections of another world.

Like waves on the water...
 

StuBurns

Banned
Green Scar said:
Not really. I'd already spoiled myself by reading about MGS1 and 2 on Wikipedia. Websites like Gamesradar had already managed to spoil the big plot twist at the end of MGS2, so I figured I might as well learn the rest of what happened :lol

It was the nuts-sounding plot that encouraged me to buy MGS2, though. Which worked out awesome :)
That's pretty cool.

I always wondered what someone would think going into MGS2 blank. It only really works when the player has finished the first game, it's like required reading for an exam.

What they did with the game was far more brave than anything developers have done since, and they took the bullet too, came out smiling, wiped together another great game a couple of years later, and got that same mega hype for their first next-gen game, burnt people again with it. And if he decides to make MGS6 himself for PS4, it's all going to happen again. It's impressive PR work if nothing else.
 

Siyou

Member
i think you guys who played substance are missing out on the best part of MGS2... God, the skateboarding minigame! :lol :lol I've never laughed so hard at watching Raiden and Snake ride the rails.
 
MGS2 was one of the first PS2 games I bought (along with FFX and Kingdom Hearts) and it immediately raised the bar for what I expected from games. A masterfully crafted game, which may not be my favorite in the series, but immensely enjoyable nonetheless. I particularly enjoy having the extra VR missions and stuff, so much fun to play!
 

RedSwirl

Junior Member
I appreciate this game's story for basically being a giant troll from Kojima to Metal Gear fans, and I didn't have a lot of trouble understanding it. Visually and presentation-wise, this game along with Final Fantasy X also raised the bar for video games and firmly established what the PS2 was bringing to the table. That said, I still put Metal Gear Solid 2 at the bottom of my ranking for the series.

First of all, it represents the point where the franchise's storyline got too thick for its own good, and that ended up affecting the rest of the series afterwards. Kojima had to make MGS3 a prequel in order to make a more sensible story. The main problem with MGS4 was that it's storyline was an attempt to clean up after MGS2.

MGS2's gameplay is also probably my least favorite in the series, it added the least to the formula. MGS1 was basically a 2.5D game but it was well-balanced for what it was. MGS2 added a first person camera and some major AI changes, but felt mostly the same. The Tanker chapter was extremely well-balanced for that scheme (the difference between it and Twin Snakes is night-and-day), but I had too many frustrations with the Plant chapter due to a combination of bad camera angles and no radar much of the time.

Gameplay-wise MGS3 was the turning point of the series where it became a truly 3D stealth game.








...oh, and now every time I post in a Metal Gear thread I'm going to ask people to please play the MSX2 Metal Gear 2. That game is like the Final Fantasy VI of this series.
 

rvy

Banned
RedSwirl said:
...oh, and now every time I post in a Metal Gear thread I'm going to ask people to please play the MSX2 Metal Gear 2.
I didn't plan on posting in this thread, but... a million times this.
 

Skilletor

Member
Chip N Chance said:
Threads like this remind me how why i love the MGS series. The second game was a such a mind fuck, from start to finish, and was a very ballsy game. I don't think will ever get such a high profiled franchise to do what MGS2 did. I always hear about how people played the game so many times, and collected all the dog tags and what not. I only played the game once, but i loved so freaking much. As with all four Metal Gear games.

Every console generation, there's always that one game that stands out from the rest. Whether it be a "right time, right place" sort of thing, or just straight up looking amazing. I feel that MGS2 was that game for allot of people during that time period. I just hope that another Metal Gear game in the future will do what MGS2 did. Because so far, every time a new one comes out, people give it such crap. Maybe RISING?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68mbFvenlaQ&feature=related


You think MGS2 doesn't get crap? :lol
 

loosus

Banned
I still say the gameplay and controls in MGS2 are the most fluid. There's just something about the way he moves and whatnot in that game that feels so much better than in MGS3 (and a hell of a lot better than in MGS4, which was just terrible).

Also, MGS2 actually feels like a "sneaking" game. I felt like I was really sneaking around on a huge boat.

If they would make a game like MGS2 with the storyline "THERE ARE THE BAD GUYS! GET THEM!," I'd be all over it.
 

Imm0rt4l

Member
I remember said Kojima there'd be multiple ways of getting through the game, saying that you could even tranq or kill the operator of Ray. smh.
 
Skilletor said:
You think MGS2 doesn't get crap? :lol

lol, to me it just got weirder, and weirder. Which i really liked. There was a period i do remember being tedious, and that was some of the back tracking. But that was a very minimal complaint i had. I'm sure if i go back, its nowhere near as good as 3, or 4's level progression. Its no secret that fans are split on the second game
 
MGS2 blew my mind. The amount of philosophical insanity Kojima packed into one game is ridiculous. This is actually the game that made me want to become a scenario writer. I never have and never will understand the hate.
 

dak1dsk1

Banned
rvy said:
I remember reading it in the Making Of DVD that came with the PAL version. Great article. No game will ever top MGS 2 for me.
'The document of MGS' I think it was called? Amazing bonus disk. One of the best extras ever. Imagine an MGS2 remake on PS3...
 
I can't even imagine what it must have been like playing this game on launch day. I think I played it in 2006 or 2007, and my mind was blown. It still looks amazing.
 
Blu_LED said:
I can't even imagine what it must have been like playing this game on launch day. I think I played it in 2007 or 2007, and my mind was blown. It still looks amazing.

:p

I imagine most people's launch day reaction would have been something like 'oh fuck, who's these grey-haired nancy boy'
 

Vard

Member
Wow, strange timing. A friend and I randomly picked up a PS2 game to play yesterday and it was MGS2. It was the first time I played it since 2002, I think.

It still holds up nicely, though I think MGS3:S improved on it in pretty much every way.
 
I could do without the rankings and MGS1,3,4 trolls, I think that shit has been done to death but hey that's just me.

I love that Making Of DVD. I wish there was a comprehensive doc on all the games.
 

Blablurn

Member
Buckethead said:
I could do without the rankings and MGS1,3,4 trolls, I think that shit has been done to death but hey that's just me.

I love that Making Of DVD. I wish there was a comprehensive doc on all the games.

god, i think i'll retwatch it now :lol
 
I remember this was one of my first games that I bought on my "new" PS2 in 8th grade, years after it launched. I remember going to a EB poking around the used game aisle for something extremely cheap that I could buy with my less-than-20 dollars.

I saw the cover, saw the title, saw the awesome smokey art of a guy, and had a feeling it was going to be something badass and different.

Which is exactly what it was. Im not sure I totally understood everything that was happening towards the end, but I was still incredibly interested in everything about it. And god I loved the cutscenes!

PS: Totally got it for 7 dollars that day used.
 

Magnus

Member
I don't remember a game before this where the hype buildup was quite as insanely crazy. This, for me, was the introduction to what it was like to 'anticipate' a game, or anything really, since I was so young at the time.
 

Kintaro

Worships the porcelain goddess
MGS2 is so fucking awesome. I mean, there are entire games since then that can't entertain me as well as the E3 2000 Trailer does to this day.

Then again, MGS trailers are video game trailers taken to some sort of godlike level anyway...
 

Mr_Zombie

Member
bud said:
ten years later and the rain effects are still unsurpassed.

It amaze me that with all the tech that game developers have nowadays, very few games surpass (?) or even achieve similar rain effect.
 
Magnus said:
I don't remember a game before this where the hype buildup was quite as insanely crazy. This, for me, was the introduction to what it was like to 'anticipate' a game, or anything really, since I was so young at the time.
Pfft. Every other game before and since has hype, MGS2 is the only one to have frenzy!
Chemo said:
Also, Snake Eater is probably the most overrated game of all time.
128834398644405607.jpg
 

TriniTrin

war of titties grampa
i loved this game for many reasons but if i could choose 2 reasons.... It was the first game where the graphics stunned me and it also introduced me to ZOE which was an awesome series!
 

Blablurn

Member
as many of you already said. such a polished game. damn, even mgs 1 is still today pretty good. okay, it's not a graphical masterpiece but if you consider the fact it came out for ps1 it's just awesome. it's the same with MGS2. it's almost 10 years old and i have no problems playing it. Kojima and his team deserve some credits for that.

btw, the music of MGS2 = incredible.
 
I really don't like this game, and it's not because of Raiden.

It's by far the most frustrating game to play in the entire MGS series, and I really don't understand why people like it. I feel like I'm missing out on something here, but I've given the game more than enough chances, and it just gets worse for me each time. It's like the controls, level design, and radar are all designed to work against me. Most MGS games are more fun as you turn up the difficulty and turn off the radar, but doing this in MGS2 makes it so that enemies who are not on your screen and on a catwalk 100 feet above you spot you. And the camera is static so there's not a single thing you can do about it unless you wanna go through the arduous process of looking around in first person. And even if you have the radar on, you're still getting spotted by enemies you have no way of seeing due to the static camera.

God it's so frustrating.
 
Subliminal said:
Its my personal Game Of The Forever,

IMO its by far the best MGS game and when i think of Kojima I immediately think if this as his best work.

but everyone else hates it cause it has raiden in it.

First reply nailed it.

Easily Kojima's best work. Then he bent over for his fans on 3 and 4. :(
 
You know how when you're a kid and just one game is enough to hold you over for years on end? MGS2 was like that for me, getting all of the dog tags just to change Raiden's wig for new powers, and finding stuff like cartwheeling into Solidus when he rockets towards you in his DeLorean boots can stun him. It's easily my most favorite entry of the entire Metal Gear series. I had a hell of a time playing through Extreme mode as well, fighting 25 RAYs with limited rations. The only way I was able to go past the Extreme mode's torture sequences was with a crummy third-party controller with turbo-fire. :lol
 
I used to think this game was great. Then MGS3 happened.

Then MGS4 happened and I thought to myself - it could be worse.. MGS 2 is not so bad.
 
I think one of the main things that separates MGS1&2 from 3&4 for me is that (aside from being MUCH more ballsy and out-there with 2, which is like half of what I look for in a game) is that in the first two entries, every object, every soldier in every environment felt whole and purposeful. The latter two had that "fighting generic soldiers in generic environments with lots of stuff around me" feel. I can't really explain the idea very well; it's just a feeling that I think the shift in direction failed to capture.

MGS3 and 4 did bring us MGO though, so I love them for that.
 

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
I think it's easily my favorite MGS story-wise. I really love how over-the-top and non-sensical the storyline is. Also the
patriots twist
was incredibly well-done for the time i played it, until it was slowly ruined and retconned by MGS 3 / PO / MGS4.;_;

My only wish, was that i played it when i was completely unaware of "raidens" existence. I didn't play the game, until it was released for PC. Because i didn't own a PS2 at the time.:lol so i had that big twist spoiled for me.;_;

Gameplay-wise i think it's the weakest MGS game though. And in terms of the cutscene-gameplay ratio it's paced very poorly compared to MGS 1 and MGS 3.
 

Jackl

Member
Buying ZOE and obtaining the demo a year before the game out, I must have played 200 hours into the tanker section. I was an MGS1 fanatic. My hopes for the sequel, were huge to say the least.

Which is why buy about 4 hours into it, I was completely disgusted. Maybe nostalgia had padded my memory too much, the demo built my hopes too high. Not to say MGS2 is completely without merit. Some gameplay and story sections were quite good...however, as others have mention I couldn't get over its clunky acting, melodramatic writing, weird plot holes, and over eccentric story devices.

I liked 3 much better, even if some of it was a bit silly as well. I think its a reverse Startrek thing, only get the odd numbered installments.
 
I'm glad we ALL finally agree MGS2 is the best MGS overall, especially in story&characters.



Seriously, I never understood the Raiden hate, Solid Snake is one of the weakest main characters in the series. I think this is more a "I wanna play as Mario, not Luigi!" type of complain than actual care for the characters.

Also, you play part of the game with Snake, the game uses his "death" and the unknowing Raiden for some twists (and they were able to show Snake from another perspective) and it doesn't matter for the story anyway as Snake is almost always directly part of it. Plus in terms of gameplay Raiden is capable of using the exact same moves as Snake.
Totally destroys the game amiright.




oh and MGS2 had the best boss characters/antagonists. I was SO disappointed by the Cobras&BBs in MGS3&4 in this regard: Awesome bosses/designs but they are ZERO involved in the story and simple exist as an obstacle for the player.
 
Top Bottom