cubicle47b
Member
Neither series sells well. Only 5 games in either series have sold more than a million units and 3 of those were F-Zero games.
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Ok GAF lets battle it out. Which franchise is better F-Zero or Wipeout
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OricWindstar
Member
That makes F-Zero GX look horrible
You're basically showing this (https://youtu.be/0qU5_TgSLes?t=89) as an example of how great the game is.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
The controls of F-Zero (G)X are absolutely proper.
That makes F-Zero GX look horrible
You're basically showing this (https://youtu.be/0qU5_TgSLes?t=89) as an example of how great the game is.
Yea, I've never understood why people cite the snaking in F-Zero GX as though it's a good thing. It's not like bunnyhopping in Quake where it enhances the gameplay... it completely blows the gameplay mechanics up, and invalidates the game in pretty much anything that isn't exploit-ridden time trials.
F-Zero GX is still god-tier of course, but the snaking is something that breaks the game, rather than improves it imo.
When people aren't glitching out in F-Zero GX and just racing normally...it's quite obvious it's not as interesting as Wipeout. I can understand it being more fun for people though.
As in realistic, vs the more arcade F-Zero style. Redout just isn't as incredibly precise driving like in wipeout.
F-zero doesn't even feel like you're driving something, it feels like an arcade title from way back...
As in realistic, vs the more arcade F-Zero style. Redout just isn't as incredibly precise driving like in wipeout.
F-zero doesn't even feel like you're driving something, it feels like an arcade title from way back...
freethoughtbubble
Member
Yea... I'd just be more direct and say that I feel more people prefer F-Zero because they can't play WipEout for shit.
Now that's more like it!
Edit: This thread is now about glitches and "proper" ways of playing a game. Discussion never goes anywhere. All I'll say is I value games whose systems are capable of producing interesting exploits to a game rigidly designed to be played in the developer-mandated manner. But that's just me.
Maybe you should play the game more than a couple of hours before making that call?
I saw this post you made earlier (really, a small citation from the larger post) and I couldn't help but agree with it and what you said above:
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Well, F-Zero is not a sim, but an arcade game, absolutely, but I think this is a great advantage.
I think the "arcade" talk is a bit of a silly differentiator when we're talking about two anti-grav racers lol. Both games are arcade as fuck, just in different ways. The original Outrun for example has incredibly direct and "twitchy" controls like F-Zero has, but something like Daytona USA is just as much an arcade game, despite adhering far more to a sense of momentum and shifting weight.
I'd say that it's more of an analog vs digital divide really. Some people will argue that momentum-based games aren't as responsive (classic Sonic games have retroactively been getting a lot of flak for this reason), whilst others will find game with more direct controls simplistic and uninteresting. It kinda reminds me of a thread regarding classic Tomb Raider games a while back, where someone was arguing that an action game's mechanics were bad if your character doesn't respond to a new action at any point in time... so effectively being unable to say dash cancel out of a heavy attack was objectively worse than having the player not be committed to their prior input.
But...overcoming momentum is still a major point to tackling the turns in the original Outrun.
Sonic Racing Transformed was also on Vita but that had even worse performance than 2048
Ugh... That game isnt horrible but I have bad memories of an unbeatable level. When I want a non wipeout I just play crash team racing again usually. I have Mario cart on my 3ds though and its not bad at all.
Souldestroyer Reborn
Banned
Wipeout without a doubt.
F-Zero sucks.
F-Zero sucks.
It isn't though. Your car goes from lock-to-lock in like 6 frames. Success in the original Outrun boils down mostly to reactions and either having enough space on the outside to let yourself be pulled through the turn, or dropping your speed just under the threshold so that your car instead moves towards the inside. Turning left has almost no bearing at all on your ability to turn right at any given moment.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
Only an absolute degenerate would believe Wipeout is better than the racing perfection of F-Zero GX
Mario Kart on the Switch (e.g. The Vita 2) is amazing.
I_D
Member
When the question is "Which is better: A Nintendo original series or the clone of that series?" the answer is pretty much always Nintendo.
I've only played a tiny bit of Wipeout, but it's just so boring compared to F-Zero. Even the fastest footage I can find on Youtube just looks like F-Zero's warmup stage; and the environments are hilariously bland compared to F-Zero's on-screen carnage.
I like trippy games and all, but F-Zero easily has this locked down.
I've only played a tiny bit of Wipeout, but it's just so boring compared to F-Zero. Even the fastest footage I can find on Youtube just looks like F-Zero's warmup stage; and the environments are hilariously bland compared to F-Zero's on-screen carnage.
I like trippy games and all, but F-Zero easily has this locked down.
tenderbrew
Member
You're not wrong but I also think that that's better.
WipEout isn't an F-Zero clone. It's as much a clone of F-Zero as Splatoon is Gears of War.
On purely gameplay terms, on mute, GX is top of the pile for me.
But, as a cultural force, the excitement at the time of the first two Wipeouts is still being felt today, beating the excitement of the SNES F-Zero, and the Nintendo/Sega collab for GX
As this is a school yard argument, I would propose the solution to be for all the developers to join forces to create a combination of the two!
But, as a cultural force, the excitement at the time of the first two Wipeouts is still being felt today, beating the excitement of the SNES F-Zero, and the Nintendo/Sega collab for GX
As this is a school yard argument, I would propose the solution to be for all the developers to join forces to create a combination of the two!
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
Well, I can't recommend Wipeout, but still: You should play it some more if you think it's an F-Zero clone. I wish it were, even if it was a second rate F-Zero clone, it would be very much appreciated considering the current, say, scarcity of F-Zero games.
Come on dude, it's obvious from the first 10 minutes what the gameplay is like. I just played the first and last cups just now too... it's ok? Wipeout is something else entirely. I can appreciate people enjoying this...but it's nothing like wipeout. This also feels hella out dated from a control/physics standpoint. It's fine, sometimes less than fine with some vehicles that just slide pretty much randomly. But when that's not happening, it's okay, quite fun. Some of the tracks are quite cool and look neat.. but it's not wipeout, which I feel has extremely little in common with f-zero when it comes to gameplay. I mean, sure you accelerate and break, air breaks and a side-shift sort of thing (more like it teleports a bit) but the way those mechanics play out are completely separate.
It also feels way slower than wipeout. That's without snaking of course. Beat the final cup coming first, first try on standard. I could've written an essay while I played...
Nah it was okay. But not much more... I'll keep playing just in case I'm actually missing something, or getting better is a lot of fun. But it's not going to change the wide-ass tracks, mostly simple turns and physics. I just hope I get more of a handle on why it wants to crash me into a wall almost at random sometimes when I barely turn.That's fine... and I can understand that. Wipeout is frustrating from the get-go. But f-zero is hella retro and simple (physics) by racing standards even 10 years ago... hella retro. Not necessarily bad...but can't I just can't compare it to wipeout at all.
Yoshi
Headmaster of Console Warrior Jugendstrafanstalt
There is nothing outdated about the controls in F-Zero (G)X, in fact, I have yet to play a racing game that has even remotely as great controls as F-Zero (G)X (especially X, the nuances this game has, yet having extreme accessability is unparalleled). And if you think the vehicles slide randomly, you haven't understood the handling all too well yet. I'm more well-versed in X at the moment, but show me a run with a few unintended slides and I tell you for each position in advance when the slide will happen. It is absolutely deterministic and easy to identify when a vehicle will start a slide on its own.
EDIT: Regarding the edit: Simple is good. Simple physics and controls guaranteeing you immediately understand what's going on (well, for the big stuff at least, you still seem to have trouble seeing when a vehicle will start sliding) are an absolutely great thing.
My problem with Wipeout is less that it is frustrating - it isn't really frustrating at the level I played it at - my problem is that it play (from my perspective as someone who always wants immediate control) like utter shit. It is just completely devoid of fun for me, which hurts a lot, because I love fast racing games. But any kind of lack of immediacy in controls is an immediate fun-killer for me.
I'm tempted to record some when they happen because it's pretty damn sudden when it happens to me - I'm going pretty much straight, but the track is curved and bending and it can happen really abruptly, almost making no sense - I just try going a little straighter and not boosting and it tends to be okay - after I switched to captain falcon.
Wipeout controls are immediate, it's just the ship doesn't slide to the side and correct itself instantly kind of like it does in f-zero, you have to control it and keep it's movement at the forefront of your thinking (along with the track design) when racing.
pretty done
Member
Yea people have no idea what the word clone means.
I bet they called Mortal Kombat a Street Fighter clone back in the day. Horizon? Zelda clone EZ.
King Gilga
Member
Only one of these series still exists so it's moot.
Spladam
Member
And you know this to be 99% accurate? So GAF is a bubble of Nintendo enthusiast? Maybe it has something to do with F-Zero being a legendary game in gaming circles, period. A game with high critical praise and commercial success. His comment about Wipeout being a "million selling series"... you say 99% accurate, I say I'm pretty sure F-Zero has sold more.
So the first F-Zero is NOT a good game? That's insane. F-Zero X may be the least popular, but it would be hard to argue that it is not a good game either.
F-Zero X
F-Zero Gamespot.
EternalDarko
Member
I love both series, though I would say best game overall from both series would have to be F-Zero GX, that game just hit another level.
What's your source on that? Please don't tell me it's ********. Wipeout sold over 1.5 million, Wipeout 2097 and Pure a million each, Wipeout HD Fury will definitely have sold at least that as well.
EDIT: haha banned source, no wonder.
I really hope I can get a switch this year
What do sales have to do with the quality of the games? Oh and its no wonder Wipeout sold more since it was released on the PS1. But again it does not matter one bit.
archreaper93
Member
Wipeout is for people who weren't good enough to play F-Zero.
pretty done
Member
At least your post is properly in the past tense. Can't wait to play a new Wipeout game in a couple weeks online with some friends.
cubicle47b
Member
I did a lot of googling because I knew the site you're talking about is suspect (Pure and the original are the only ones I could find over a million). Even if I spot you 4 nothing touches the original F-Zero for numbers and both are poor selling compared to something like Gran Turismo or (the juggernaut that is) Mario Kart. You said F-Zero was obscure and Wipeout was a mega-franchise which is ridiculous.
edit: Mario Kart 8 on the Wii U, a system that only sold 13.5 million units, has easily sold the entire F-Zero and Wipeout series. I just find that interesting.
freethoughtbubble
Member
I'm in the F-Zero camp, but sweet jesus lol.
Chronospherics
Member
Thing about Wipeout is that there hasn't been a completely new iteration on consoles since 2097, on the PS2, which was pretty bad. HD/Fury content is all adopted from the PSP versions of the game, which are in themselves, fine, but unambitious.
I feel that a Wipeout built from the ground up, for PS4 or PS3, would have been a lot more appealing than 2048 or HD/Fury have been.
With that said, I still prefer HD Fury to F-Zero. I like that Wipeout tracks are insanely windey, and complex. F-Zero certainly has moments of technical challenge but many of the tracks are pretty simple. When playing on Phantom, just getting around the track is a challenge on Wipeout, I find that really fun.
I also find the weapons and shield management system more interesting. There's a good deal of depth to the execution to performing barrel rolls within minute portions of airtime. Perfecting your driving line, and pitch of the ship so that you catch those moments, then executing them, there's a lot to it that most players will never appreciate.
I feel that a Wipeout built from the ground up, for PS4 or PS3, would have been a lot more appealing than 2048 or HD/Fury have been.
With that said, I still prefer HD Fury to F-Zero. I like that Wipeout tracks are insanely windey, and complex. F-Zero certainly has moments of technical challenge but many of the tracks are pretty simple. When playing on Phantom, just getting around the track is a challenge on Wipeout, I find that really fun.
I also find the weapons and shield management system more interesting. There's a good deal of depth to the execution to performing barrel rolls within minute portions of airtime. Perfecting your driving line, and pitch of the ship so that you catch those moments, then executing them, there's a lot to it that most players will never appreciate.
isaacnukem
Member
F-Zero feels campy while Wipeout feels classy. They excel in both their own ways. I like them both equally.
tenderbrew
Member
But does Wipeout have: Michael Chain?
How did you get this so wrong?
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