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BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(10-04-2016, 08:37 AM)
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Was there ever a good PVM or BVM from the 2000s "flat screen" era? By which I mean the screen itself was flat... it's still a fat CRT. Think Sony Wega or Panasonic Tau in commercial CRTs.

Seems like all the retro community go-to PVMs are the bubble screen ones... but I confess that I have no nostalgia for the distortion of the curved screen, and I'd want it gone if I had a choice.
televator
Member
(10-04-2016, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by mdd45

From what i am gathering from google the problem maybe due to Convergence and/or purity. Any idea if this can be corrected without unscrewing the tv?

Yikes. Afiak, you do have to open the set and adjust some rings on the tube... Personally, I'd just get a new set.
Galdelico
Member
(10-04-2016, 08:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

Was there ever a good PVM or BVM from the 2000s "flat screen" era? By which I mean the screen itself was flat... it's still a fat CRT. Think Sony Wega or Panasonic Tau in commercial CRTs.

Seems like all the retro community go-to PVMs are the bubble screen ones... but I confess that I have no nostalgia for the distortion of the curved screen, and I'd want it gone if I had a choice.

I have no technical expertise, so I just talk about what I see with my eyes, but... I'm actually looking for a curved CRT screen, to replace my Trinitron flatscreen.

At least by my personal experience, I found out the latter models tend to be the ones showing up major distortions/geometry imperfections, especially around the borders. The TV I'm currently on is my third Trinitron, and all of them - no matter the size or the model - had asymmetrical alignment/straightness/bending issues that I just couldn't fix, even despite some intensive tweaking through service menu.
BocoDragon
or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
(10-04-2016, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Galdelico

I have no technical expertise, so I just talk about what I see with my eyes, but... I'm actually looking for a curved CRT screen, to replace my Trinitron flatscreen.

At least by my personal experience, I found out the latter models tend to be the ones showing up major distortions/geometry imperfections, especially around the borders. The TV I'm currently on is my third Trinitron, and all of them - no matter the size or the model - had asymmetrical alignment/straightness/bending issues that I just couldn't fix, even despite some intensive tweaking through service menu.

Yeah... CRTs will never have perfect geometry. There's a certain logic to having a curved screen so you can say "F it, I'm not even trying for perfectly square geometry".

But I still think my commercial 27 inch Sony Wega from the mid 2000s had a more geometrically perfect image than my Sony PVM from 1990.

I'd take a PVM over a commercial CRT any day of the week, but I'm curious how a latter day flatscreen PVM might have looked... might be more what I'm looking for. I don't know.
Fallen92
Junior Member
(10-04-2016, 09:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Yawnny

I see! So If I get a SCART switcher (Like the gscart then the SCART OUT needs to convert to JP21 before going in to the XRGB-Mini, is what you're sayin?

Should I be concerned that the gscart has discontinued their JP21 edition? Is it still going to be fine if I convert SCART to JP21 with a cable?

Thanks!

No you shouldn't have to worry about that, the frameister itself doesn't have an actual SCART connecter on it, it has a small circular rgb port instead. It does however come with a JP21 adapter that you use to connect it to the frameister rgb port provided you use JP21 cables. All you need in Order to use EuroSCART or the gscart switcher is the cable I linked to in my previous post so you can use EuroSCART cables instead.

Here's an image for reference:

Last edited by Fallen92; 10-04-2016 at 09:25 AM. Reason: Clarification and posted image.
Galdelico
Member
(10-04-2016, 09:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by BocoDragon

Yeah... CRTs will never have perfect geometry. There's a certain logic to having a curved screen so you can say "F it, I'm not even trying for perfectly square geometry".

But I still think my commercial 27 inch Sony Wega from the mid 2000s had a more geometrically perfect image than my Sony PVM from 1990.

I'd take a PVM over a commercial CRT any day of the week, but I'm curious how a latter day flatscreen PVM might have looked... might be more what I'm looking for. I don't know.

Well, I guess they can - in the previous thread, many gaffers posted pics of their CRTs, which seemed to offer a reasonably 'perfect' geometry - you just have to be very lucky. Or not as anal as I am, unfortunately. XD I must say, it's nothing that prevents me to enjoy my retro consoles - I really believe I'm squeezing out the absolute best it can do, with my actual Trinitron - but still, I can't genuinely unsee those issues, nowadays.
And that's the reason why I'm dying to get my hands on an OSSC. I gave up with PVMs - in my area, they come stupidly overpriced, and often in pretty rough conditions too... Sellers don't seem reliable, in general - and I'm honestly a bit tired of going through the usual effort of getting a new CRT set, tossing out the old one, just to discover it still has the same problems, only placed differently on the screen. :D

I should probably go 'nevermind' and keep trying - there's a nice Bang & Olufsen set which is on sale near my town, but it's 190 euros on the one hand, and even worse, it's too damn big for my retro corner - but then I think about it again, and... I just don't feel motivated enough.
Last edited by Galdelico; 10-04-2016 at 09:31 AM.
purdobol
Member
(10-04-2016, 09:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by mdd45

From what i am gathering from google the problem maybe due to Convergence and/or purity. Any idea if this can be corrected without unscrewing the tv?

Looks like geometry issue to me to be honest. There is some bleeding going on yes. But that's always the case, and blue/pink colors show convergence issues the most. If you have acces to the service menu try to get geometry right (using a grid pattern or something). Top of the screen seems to be stretched outwards. Try to correct that first. Black vertical lines might as well be cable noise. Lots of possibilities here. So in short:
1. Try to get perfect geometry first.
2. Than check the convergence (white grid is perfect for that).
3. If 2 above are fine but you still have black vert lines. Try another cable.
4. If everything fails. Trash it... hehe :)


Also new thread yay! Subscribed.
ponpo
Banned
(10-04-2016, 09:58 AM)
Saw someone on twitter doing a Game Gear LCD mod. Didn't know that was a thing.

But that + GGMSX adapter is cool.

televator
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:16 AM)
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Originally Posted by ponpo

Saw someone on twitter doing a Game Gear LCD mod. Didn't know that was a thing.

But that + GGMSX adapter is cool.

The hell? MSX games run natively on GG?
ponpo
Banned
(10-04-2016, 10:25 AM)

Originally Posted by televator

The hell? MSX games run natively on GG?

Aside from the adapter, I think slight modification of the GG is necessary.

GGMSX is the device if you want to look it up.
DracoBlade
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by davidwhangchoi

sixteen-bit and BTails,

i picked this up from ebay for the Guncon
http://www.ebay.com/itm/252506253249...%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

hopefully it's a working adaptor. i'll post pics once i get it and report back =)

thanks guys again!

Bought this earlier in the week as well. On a bit of a light gun craze atm over here :)

Speaking of I picked up a 27 inch Trinitron with component the other day (that suffers from some severe geometry warping I might enlist ya'll to help me correct in the service menus at a later time)!

I have a question however: I own SCART for every console pre-dreamcast for the ol Frameister but, for the sake of CRT based games on the PS2, should I stick to component or buy a YUV transcoder? (i.e. is the color/image quality superior over Scart to YUV, or would it be unnecessary give n YPbPr I already have?). For everything before ps2 that uses SCART (ignoring those new component third party cables I've seen briefly around the boards) would transcoder to YUV component be a better option than S-Video I would otherwise be limited to on the CRT?
gingerbeardman
Member
(10-04-2016, 11:21 AM)
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Originally Posted by dubc35

I only have two on my HD. I view a decent amount online mostly out of curiosity to compare/contrast features. So, I don't have much to contribute beyond what is available on the two sources I posted above, sorry.

Edit, sorry my "most" comment above was probably misleading. It was more a most of what I have searched for (5 or so chassis).

OK. I'm going to start a collection. More soon.
gingerbeardman
Member
(10-04-2016, 11:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by televator

The hell? MSX games run natively on GG?

So cool.
entremet
Member
(10-04-2016, 11:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by televator

The hell? MSX games run natively on GG?

Probably same processor class.
RadarScope1
Member
(10-04-2016, 12:31 PM)
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I have a 19 BVM with rock solid geometry. I don't have the 240p test suite but it looks damn near perfect to my eyes.
Peltz
Member
(10-04-2016, 12:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by televator

The hell? MSX games run natively on GG?

woah. That screen also looks amazing.
Ashby
Member
(10-04-2016, 01:05 PM)
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Speaking of screen replacements, apparently it's a real bitch to source the parts for an OG gba backlight mode these days. It's a shame. Those afterburner kits used to be everywhere.
D.Lo
Member
(10-04-2016, 01:10 PM)
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It popped up last year. I guess the LCD mod actually makes it usable, since you can use the full Mark III resolution.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9lrUXYykJ8

MSX1 has exactly the same specs as the SG1000 (and Colecovision), just with different memory mapping. The Mark III is an SG1000 with an extra video mode, and is fully backward compatible with SG1000. And the Game Gear is a Mark III in a box with an increased colour palette, and is also fully backward compatible with SG1000.

All that said, it's still pretty impressive. Even though all required hardware is on there, it needs some signifiant engineering to re-map everything.

Originally Posted by Ashby

Speaking of screen replacements, apparently it's a real bitch to source the parts for an OG gba backlight mode these days. It's a shame. Those afterburner kits used to be everywhere.

Afterburner was a front light, not a back light.
entremet
Member
(10-04-2016, 01:14 PM)
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Sent my Wii to the shop. Disc drive died. Man I really miss it. It's my go to retro device due to the native 240p, component video, and huge VC catalog.

Neat little machine. Is there a way to back up VC purchases and still have access to the shop? I'd hate to lose my legally obtained ROMs via the VC if my Wii dies.

But I'm still buying stuff of the shop. Much cheaper than carts these days!
Ashby
Member
(10-04-2016, 02:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by D.Lo


Afterburner was a front light, not a back light.

Yeah, that's right. maybe front light mods are still easy to get hands on. I'll look into that.
Peltz
Member
(10-04-2016, 03:38 PM)
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We should add this to the OP or the logo:

Laevateinn
Member
(10-04-2016, 03:49 PM)
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Whoa! Where'd you get a picture of my game room?
Mega
Banned
(10-04-2016, 04:00 PM)

Originally Posted by BocoDragon

Was there ever a good PVM or BVM from the 2000s "flat screen" era? By which I mean the screen itself was flat... it's still a fat CRT. Think Sony Wega or Panasonic Tau in commercial CRTs.

Seems like all the retro community go-to PVMs are the bubble screen ones... but I confess that I have no nostalgia for the distortion of the curved screen, and I'd want it gone if I had a choice.

To my knowledge... no, none of the PVMs or BVMs had flat screens. Some of the 2000s pro JVCs do.

CRTs will never have technically perfect geometry, but they can be perceptibly perfect during use... in other words, in all manner of everyday scenarios where you aren't staring at a test pattern looking for minute imperfections.

Originally Posted by ponpo

Aside from the adapter, I think slight modification of the GG is necessary.

GGMSX is the device if you want to look it up.

Backlit GG is the best mod ever relative to the improvement gain from stock hardware.











Check out the before and after with the vertical scanlines filter:

Last edited by Mega; 10-04-2016 at 04:10 PM.
Ramune
Member
(10-04-2016, 04:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mega

To my knowledge... no, none of the PVMs or BVMs had flat screens. Some of the 2000s pro JVCs do.

CRTs will never have technically perfect geometry, but they can be perceptibly perfect during use... in other words, in all manner of everyday scenarios where you aren't staring at a test pattern looking for minute imperfections.



Backlit GG is the best mod ever relative to the improvement gain from stock hardware.



Check out the before and after with the vertical scanlines filter:

These are pretty neat. Must be a gargantuan leap over the original screen to be sure! My old model (TV Tuner compatible) GG still turns on, but obviously needs those capacitors for the sound and my D-pad is wonky. :(
Come to think of it, what's the battery life with the new screens?
Mega
Banned
(10-04-2016, 04:31 PM)
I'm not sure, I'm always on AC adapter when I play, but it should be a big improvement. There is a LED backlight mod (not full LCD screen replacement like the above pics) that drastically improves the battery life. The GG's original CFL is very inefficient.

Originally Posted by Leonsito

Is that the McWill mod?

Yes.
Last edited by Mega; 10-04-2016 at 05:02 PM.
Leonsito
Member
(10-04-2016, 04:44 PM)
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Is that the McWill mod?
CrispyGoomba
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:15 PM)
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What's the best settings for the framemeister while using a PS1? I have it set for 1080p and 4:3 ratio. Does anyone use 16:9? What else am I missing?
RedSwirl
Junior Member
(10-04-2016, 06:16 PM)
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Is something like an XRGB helpful with a console as recent as the PS2 or Gamecube games via a Wii? I noticed the XRGB Mini doesn't have any component input. What would these upscaling solutions do versus just plugging a PS2 or original Wii into a 1080p TV through component?
gingerbeardman
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:18 PM)
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Scanlines I guess
Peltz
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:20 PM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

Is something like an XRGB helpful with a console as recent as the PS2 or Gamecube games via a Wii? I noticed the XRGB Mini doesn't have any component input. What would these upscaling solutions do versus just plugging a PS2 or original Wii into a 1080p TV through component?

It takes D-Terminal which is the same signal as component. You'll need a very simple adapter to plug in component sources.

And yes, it can be helpful, especially for 480i sources. But many HDTV's scale 480p faster and more cleanly. People are divided on whether to use the XRGB for 480p. (I personally do not).
Timu
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

I noticed the XRGB Mini doesn't have any component input.

Just get this to use component on the XRGB Mini.

davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:23 PM)
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Originally Posted by DracoBlade

Bought this earlier in the week as well. On a bit of a light gun craze atm over here :)

Speaking of I picked up a 27 inch Trinitron with component the other day (that suffers from some severe geometry warping I might enlist ya'll to help me correct in the service menus at a later time)!

I have a question however: I own SCART for every console pre-dreamcast for the ol Frameister but, for the sake of CRT based games on the PS2, should I stick to component or buy a YUV transcoder? (i.e. is the color/image quality superior over Scart to YUV, or would it be unnecessary give n YPbPr I already have?). For everything before ps2 that uses SCART (ignoring those new component third party cables I've seen briefly around the boards) would transcoder to YUV component be a better option than S-Video I would otherwise be limited to on the CRT?

i'm not sure for frameister but for a Sony BVM RGB CRT, i've been using scart cables for snes and genesis, component for wii and ps2.... as ps2 component is really good as recommended by Mega.

maybe he and others can chime in a bit more on this subject of using rgb vs. component on ps2
Huggers
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:26 PM)
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Big fan of the new thread name
BTails
Member
(10-04-2016, 06:28 PM)
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Now I want to play Metal Gear on my Game Gear... Operation Intrude N313 on 6 AA batteries, aw yeah!

Also David, be sure to let us know how that cable works with your Guncon!
Morfeo
The Chuck Norris of Peace
(10-04-2016, 07:39 PM)
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Originally Posted by CrispyGoomba

What's the best settings for the framemeister while using a PS1? I have it set for 1080p and 4:3 ratio. Does anyone use 16:9? What else am I missing?

In Pal, I actually output 576p, in smart2 and with scanlines. Definitely 4:3. In ntsc i use 720p and otherwise the same.
saveweyard
Member
(10-04-2016, 08:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by RedSwirl

Is something like an XRGB helpful with a console as recent as the PS2 or Gamecube games via a Wii? I noticed the XRGB Mini doesn't have any component input. What would these upscaling solutions do versus just plugging a PS2 or original Wii into a 1080p TV through component?

Like was said above, you just need a D-terminal to RCA female adapter for YPbPr component input to the framemeister. Depending on your TV, 480p signals might look better just directly plugged directly into your TV as the framemeister makes them look a little soft.

I just have everything going through the framemeister for convenience, though.
IrishNinja
(10-04-2016, 08:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by ponpo

Saw someone on twitter doing a Game Gear LCD mod. Didn't know that was a thing.

But that + GGMSX adapter is cool.

whoah, that's a first - looks amazing too!

Originally Posted by Peltz

We should add this to the OP or the logo:

haha yeah, best one since the neo geo thread image
InfiniteCombo
Member
(10-04-2016, 08:41 PM)
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Now I need some SCART cable recommendations for my SNES model 1, Genesis model 2, Saturn, and maybe Dreamcast.

I bought a cheap cable for my Genesis and it has the buzzing sound issue. I need to toss it.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:06 PM)
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Everybody here will recommend the seller retro_console_accessories on ebay, or retrogamingcables.co.uk.

I've used retro_console_accessories for all my cables, including custom jobs, barring the one the came with my cMVS.
NormalFish
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:15 PM)
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if you're crafty, you might try making your own cables. Honestly at this point next time I need new cables that's what I'll be doing. I've found issue with basically every cable I own, whether from a reputable dealer or some random chinese 3rd party on amazon.
Fallen92
Junior Member
(10-04-2016, 10:22 PM)
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If you can then like the poster above me mentioned you can make your own cables but I've personally not have any problems with the cables I've received from retro_console_accessories on ebay. For your Dreamcast, if you want a really good high quality VGA box then I suggest one from beharbros like the Kuro. They are sort of pricey but they are worth it. Alternatively you can try to get one of those cheap VGA cables on eBay but they're pretty hit or miss.
davidwhangchoi
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by BTails

Also David, be sure to let us know how that cable works with your Guncon!

will do! i'm pretty excited with the idea of finally be able to use a light gun again!

also +2 on retro_console_accessories cables on ebay.
D.Lo
Member
(10-04-2016, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by BTails

Now I want to play Metal Gear on my Game Gear... Operation Intrude N313 on 6 AA batteries, aw yeah!

It can't play Metal Gear, it can only play MSX1 games.
cyborgnumberblue
Member
(10-04-2016, 11:01 PM)
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Originally Posted by Fallen92

If you can then like the poster above me mentioned you can make your own cables but I've personally not have any problems with the cables I've received from retro_console_accessories on ebay. For your Dreamcast, if you want a really good high quality VGA box then I suggest one from beharbros like the Kuro. They are sort of pricey but they are worth it. Alternatively you can try to get one of those cheap VGA cables on eBay but they're pretty hit or miss.

I can vouch for the Kuro. The Super Behar Bros are very helpful, as well, the cable that connected my Dreamcast to the Kuro was defective and they sent me another that arrived within days. For something coming from Turkey to the US, that's pretty dang good. Also helped me out troubleshooting and such. Nice guys.
sixteen-bit
Member
(10-05-2016, 01:01 AM)
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that's a cool game gear mod
Morfeo
The Chuck Norris of Peace
(10-05-2016, 01:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by Peltz

We should add this to the OP or the logo:

Hmm, who sneaked into my living room?
sixteen-bit
Member
(10-05-2016, 02:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Laevateinn

Whoa! Where'd you get a picture of my game room?

Originally Posted by Morfeo

Hmm, who sneaked into my living room?

Roomies?
Fuzzy
I would bang a hot farmer!
(10-05-2016, 03:10 AM)
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That picture is what some in the thread about the PSVR HDR pass through thought the workaround looked like.
ponpo
Banned
(10-05-2016, 04:49 AM)
More handheld LCD mods, @norix_v

Hng
Yawnny
Member
(10-05-2016, 05:03 AM)
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Originally Posted by ponpo

More handheld LCD mods, @norix_v



Hng



Everything about that start screen makes me giddy with nostalgia.

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