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NinjaCoachZ
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(05-15-2017, 04:43 PM)
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Originally Posted by DarknessTear

Saw this posted just now on twitter.

So iNIS is technically no more, but inisJ is a spiritual successor of sorts? Seems fine by me, as long as Yano and Saito are involved.
GoldandBlue
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(05-15-2017, 04:44 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kaako

Just a bit more patience on the gampelay video. They just announced the kickstarter today after all lol.

These days if you wanna run a successful kickstart, it's better to put out a gameplay video first and then start the campaign. Not the other way around.
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 04:46 PM)
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Originally Posted by toythatkills

I think it's number of variables that makes it sound complicated, for me. Which word do you focus on, then which emotion do you focus on, and if there are say 16 possible combinations for every line they sing then you're basically in a guessing game as to what's going to happen with each of them.

It shows you the opponent's reaction to each choice so you can determine what the "best" rap is without needing to guess.



Apparently you can beat every opponent even if you choose the least optimal raps, so ultimately it seems that the main goal of the system is to let a casual player rap the way they want with specific raps encouraged for hardcore players who want to chase high scores.
Spaghetti
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(05-15-2017, 04:48 PM)
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Originally Posted by GoldandBlue

These days if you wanna run a successful kickstart, it's better to put out a gameplay video first and then start the campaign. Not the other way around.

That's not actually possible in a lot of cases, though. Not many devs are in a position to work on a prototype for X amount of months exclusively or in their spare time.
GoldandBlue
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(05-15-2017, 04:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti

That's not actually possible in a lot of cases, though. Not many devs are in a position to work on a prototype for X amount of months exclusively or in their spare time.

I'm just saying, especially now not a lot of people are ready to put down money on campaigns with no footage or prototype demo.
AcademicSaucer
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(05-15-2017, 04:56 PM)
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Is Kickstarter still popular enough to raise that kind of money?
Ryuuga
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(05-15-2017, 04:59 PM)
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Another nostalgia trap.
MrBadger
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(05-15-2017, 05:02 PM)
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I know it's not always practical to show off something substantial, but people's faith in Kickstarter has been swayed in recent years. It'll be nice to see them succeed, but that's a big asking price considering people only have mock-ups and concept art to work with.
Spaghetti
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(05-15-2017, 05:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by GoldandBlue

I'm just saying, especially now not a lot of people are ready to put down money on campaigns with no footage or prototype demo.

Unfortunately that's just an unrealistic expectation.

It's also a double edged sword, as backers might be put off by a prototype looking like, well, a prototype. I've seen enough knee-jerk reactions to Kickstarters with footage as being "ugly" or "janky" to know that sometimes just concept art and a robust breakdown of features is an objectively better way to present your ideas. It's not always the case though, just like it isn't always the case that a developer has the time, personal finances, or schedule free to start developing before hitting KS in the hopes of funding.
Crocodile
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(05-15-2017, 05:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Oreiller

ITT: people who don't understand the first thing about how expensive games are to make.

Enough previous projects have lowballed their numbers that consumer expectations are out of wack

Originally Posted by Kaako

Just a bit more patience on the gampelay video. They just announced the kickstarter today after all lol.

Nah if they had one, it needs to be there day one. The first couple of hours/days is super important for a Kickstater. It's when they build a lot of momentum that needs to carry them through the slow middle period. Missing key selling point information can be lethal.

Originally Posted by Quonny

Of course. I never said the game shouldn't exist, nor that it shouldn't be on Kickstarter at all. I simply stated that the reason of 'oh it's niche and won't sell' is a poor excuse for it to be on Kickstarter, because there's no way in hell this won't sell more than $1.5 million worth of copies, assuming it's a good game.

Oh, and locking 1/7 of your game for backers only is a shit move.

Many products can make more money selling at a high price to a niche audience than at a low price to a mass audience. I don't think coming to Kickstarter is a bad idea at all from that perspective (whether they can reach their specially high goals is another question all together).

I won't disagree on your last point though

Originally Posted by Spaghetti

That's not actually possible in a lot of cases, though. Not many devs are in a position to work on a prototype for X amount of months exclusively or in their spare time.

True but when developers forgoe such a thing their chances of success drop a great deal. Their hands may be tied in this regard but then they have to live with those consequences.
mentallyinept
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(05-15-2017, 05:07 PM)
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Looks great.

I'll throw down a pledge for the Phat edition, but I'll have to pull it if it doesn't make it to the Switch stretch goal.
panama chief
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(05-15-2017, 05:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by mentallyinept

Looks great.

I'll throw down a pledge for the Phat edition, but I'll have to pull it if it doesn't make it to the Switch stretch goal.

words right out of my mouth. that switch version is a must.
Kaako
Felium Defensor
(05-15-2017, 05:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by TheSpoiler

If you plan to ask that much, you'd better come prepared.

Originally Posted by GoldandBlue

These days if you wanna run a successful kickstart, it's better to put out a gameplay video first and then start the campaign. Not the other way around.

Originally Posted by Crocodile

Nah if they had one, it needs to be there day one. The first couple of hours/days is super important for a Kickstater. It's when they build a lot of momentum that needs to carry them through the slow middle period. Missing key selling point information can be lethal.

Can't disagree about nailing the importance of your initial KS unveiling. But is early gameplay reveal not being there at announcement as lethal as we are making it sound to be?
GoldandBlue
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(05-15-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti

Unfortunately that's just an unrealistic expectation.

It's also a double edged sword, as backers might be put off by a prototype looking like, well, a prototype. I've seen enough knee-jerk reactions to Kickstarters with footage as being "ugly" or "janky" to know that sometimes just concept art and a robust breakdown of features is an objectively better way to present your ideas. It's not always the case though, just like it isn't always the case that a developer has the time, personal finances, or schedule free to start developing before hitting KS in the hopes of funding.

I get it but I'm just going by recent successful funding campaigns. Most of them have had gameplay footage out with their crowdfunding reveal. If these devs can't put one out cause of their schedule then it is what it is but when asking for one million, they will hopefully understand why people weren't in a rush to throw money down when they had nothing but concept art to show off.
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Ryuuga

Another nostalgia trap.

Aside from showcasing the creators' pedigree, this is hardly a nostalgia-fueled Kickstarter. Stuff like Mighty No. 9 and Yooka-Laylee were literally "Mega Man and Banjo-Kazooie but with lawyer-friendly reskins", whereas at least this game's concept is its own thing compared to PaRappa and Gitaroo Man.

In fact, one might even consider this to take more inspiration from Mojib-Ribbon than those series, considering that game was both about a rabbit-like creature wanting to be a rapper and steeped heavily in Japanese culture.
Spaghetti
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(05-15-2017, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Crocodile

True but when developers forgoe such a thing their chances of success drop a great deal. Their hands may be tied in this regard but then they have to live with those consequences.

It's a caveat of crowdfunding for better or worse. No point putting the blame on the devs. Even if they did seek funding for a prototype that'd put the licence rights in jeopardy, as the Rap Rabbit devs seem to not want to by not soliciting a big publisher to pick the game up.
Last edited by Spaghetti; 05-15-2017 at 05:38 PM.
ElBoxyBrown
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(05-15-2017, 05:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Spaghetti

That's not actually possible in a lot of cases, though. Not many devs are in a position to work on a prototype for X amount of months exclusively or in their spare time.

A lot of failed Kickstarters outside are the ones that don't show anything. You gotta have a work in-progress.
Murugo
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(05-15-2017, 05:22 PM)
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As much as I love these guys' games, Yooka-Laylee turned me off to the idea of kickstarting games years in advance. Also, that Switch version seems highly unlikely.
Spaghetti
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(05-15-2017, 05:27 PM)
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Originally Posted by GoldandBlue

I get it but I'm just going by recent successful funding campaigns. Most of them have had gameplay footage out with their crowdfunding reveal. If these devs can't put one out cause of their schedule then it is what it is but when asking for one million, they will hopefully understand why people weren't in a rush to throw money down when they had nothing but concept art to show off.

It is what it is. Crowdfunding is at a make or break point now, but the onus isn't fully on developers to bring the goods for a campaign, there's also a burden on backers and potential backers to take a good look at the pitch and know who they're giving money to.

Mighty No 9's crowdfunding campaign seems to have been executed well enough, complete with prototype (later used to beat the game over the head with, but that's besides the point), but the key failing from backers in hindsight was not taking a closer look at the talent involved.

I can understand why they didn't at the time because of riding a wave of "fuck Capcom" and Inafune's reputation being solid enough (unless investigated) that people were okay with the whole campaign being centered around his involvement. Only now we can take a look at the key talent of the team (designers and directors specifically) to see there's little experience with those responsibilities let alone experience creating classic Megaman or Megaman-like games; and the man who the whole campaign was centered on, Inafune, was only tangentially involved and not even in a crucial role. Businessman indeed.
Spaghetti
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(05-15-2017, 05:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by ElBoxyBrown

A lot of failed Kickstarters outside are the ones that don't show anything. You gotta have a work in-progress.

But this Kickstarter is showing something. I can understand being cautious and outright cynical about a straight verbal pitch and little else, but that isn't the case here.

Just because there's no prototype video doesn't negate the fact there's an extensive amount of space on the KS page to how the game is going to work.
Sponge
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(05-15-2017, 06:01 PM)
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Even though I enjoyed Yooka-Laylee, I'm not keen on Kickstarter anymore after all the drama it brings. As a fan of Parappa I wish them the best.

Also that Epic Rap Battles of History mention and "Make ___ Great Again" banner on the Kickstarter page are turn offs for me.
Last edited by Sponge; 05-15-2017 at 06:06 PM.
metsallica
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(05-15-2017, 06:03 PM)
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Waffling between the Hardcore / Tagged editions. I see all the negativity here, and I agree with a lot of it, but Yano+Matsuura = take my money.
Leafhopper
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(05-15-2017, 06:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by HeisenbergWW62

Switch goal is absolutely ridiculous, put X1 there and PS4 should be where the X1 goal is, Switch should be priority. Portability here would be tits, but devs just want Nintendo to fail like always

Have devs not seen that Lego City Undercover and Puyo Puyo Tetris have done great on Switch? People don't just want Nintendo first party games

You "Shiny new thing" people are weird.
EvB
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(05-15-2017, 06:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Bazry

So basically its $1.1m for a PC/PS4 version but if you want a Switch version they want an extra $3.85m

Makes sense

Switch Tax
ramoisdead
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(05-15-2017, 06:12 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sponge

Also that Epic Rap Battles of History mention and "Make ___ Great Again" banner on the Kickstarter page are turn offs for me.

It was also another thing that put me off. Just forget for a sec that the "Make ______ Great Again" is now portrayed in negative connotation in the West, when were rhythm action games bad?? If anything they were just super niche.
mejin
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(05-15-2017, 06:14 PM)
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I'm happy this was announced right now and not on a Press Conference.
dickroach
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(05-15-2017, 06:24 PM)
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Originally Posted by Quonny

Game would sell at least 100k copies at $20 on PS4 and PC. It's foolish to think otherwise. The spiritual successor to Parappa not selling 100k copies across two of the largest platforms? Come on.

They're going this route because they can get away with it, or like another poster said, they want to control the IP.

1) the "get the game" tier is at $40.
2) you're saying if this game was just stealth dropped tomorrow it would eventually sell $2,000,000 worth, but they're asking for $4,400,000 in the next 35 days to finish the game...
3) Bloodstained got $5,500,000 at the height of the games being kickstarted thing, before everyone started feeling burned. and it is way, way, way less niche.(and the get the game tier was $30)

I'm way into the idea of this game, but you've gotta see that what they're asking for is a tall order.
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 06:37 PM)
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They've added some FAQ sections to address a few questions people have been asking.

What happens if you don’t make the $1.1 million target?

We have turned to Kickstarter to secure the funding for Project Rap Rabbit. If we do not meet this goal we will, sadly, be unable to continue with development.

But what about Nintendo Switch? It wouldn’t take almost $4 million to port it.

Correct. We are building for four platforms while adding a game mode, extra difficulty (remember the cheerleader difficulty level in Elite Beat Agents?) and extra levels (a music game lives and dies by its levels of course!). We also must factor in the various fees and cost of goods to fulfill backer shipments (including console platform fees) and the Kickstarter platform fee to make sure we can safely meet our goals. We do NOT want to be in a position where we are fabricating low goals and then failing to deliver because of that. We need to be sensible about our development resources and ensure we neither bankrupt our development studios nor under deliver on our vision of making the most innovative rhythm-action title in generations.

The ordering and pricing structure of our Stretch Goals are designed to protect the quality of Project Rap Rabbit and the viability of our development studios, and are not driven by any other agenda. We are desperately keen to develop Project Rap Rabbit for all major formats, and are tremendously excited by Nintendo Switch. The Nintendo Switch version is set to a higher tier as it requires game data to be specifically adapted for the console from the PS4 and PC versions due to the differing performance characteristics of that platform.

Development of Project Rap Rabbit is well underway using Unreal Engine 4, which means we’re in a great position to port Project Rap Rabbit to Xbox One and Nintendo Switch. Because of format architecture and studio experience, it’s easier and less expensive for us to initially focus on PS4 and PC versions, followed by an Xbox One title. We must be mindful of the costs needed for development kits and extra staff, and conscious of the fact that this will be our first title for Nintendo’s new console if we hit our Stretch Goal. It is important that we ensure Project Rap Rabbit is fully polished and perfected for every launch platform.

Why are the funding and stretch goal targets so high?

This is a game we have dreamed of developing for a very long time, but with many publishers afraid to invest in the rhythm-action genre we’ve been unable to secure the funds to make Project Rap Rabbit at the quality we expect and you deserve. Ours is an ambitious project that requires us to design and perfect innovative mechanics and multiple songs, which is neither a cheap nor quick task to do right. Making this game for $500,000 wouldn’t be possible!

Though we would love to lower the targets – or do away with them altogether and just make Project Rap Rabbit without turning to Kickstarter - we need to be realistic about the costs involved in developing a AAA music game. While some other Kickstarter projects have been in a position where they were able to fund partly through Kickstarter and secure investment from outside sources, or have underestimated the goals needed to match their full ambition, we need to raise a large percentage of the full amount required to finish development and release Project Rap Rabbit.

This is your chance to prove to the industry that publishers have got it wrong: that there is still demand for story-led music games, and that the rhythm-action genre has a bright future.

Platy
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(05-15-2017, 06:37 PM)
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That is a much slower start than I expected
| Praxis |
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(05-15-2017, 06:40 PM)
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Why rap? God dammit, would kill for another Gitaroo Man game.
Leafhopper
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(05-15-2017, 06:42 PM)
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Originally Posted by | Praxis |

Why rap? God dammit, would kill for another Gitaroo Man game.

Parappa is the more known game of these 2 so I assume that's why.
NinjaCoachZ
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(05-15-2017, 06:45 PM)
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Originally Posted by Sponge

Even though I enjoyed Yooka-Laylee, I'm not keen on Kickstarter anymore after all the drama it brings. As a fan of Parappa I wish them the best.

Also that Epic Rap Battles of History mention and "Make ___ Great Again" banner on the Kickstarter page are turn offs for me.

Yeah that's one thing I wish they didn't do. I kinda winced when I saw it. Just seems to be in poor taste.

Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

They've added some FAQ sections to address a few questions people have been asking.

I'm glad that they're open and honest about everything. All of this sounds fair.
| Praxis |
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(05-15-2017, 06:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Leafhopper

Parappa is the more known game of these 2 so I assume that's why.

The injustice.
tim.mbp
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(05-15-2017, 06:52 PM)
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Wish there was a tier with just digital versions of the game and soundtrack. Don't really want the added cost of physical goods plus shipping.
Last edited by tim.mbp; 05-15-2017 at 06:56 PM.
RoboGeorgeForeman
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(05-15-2017, 06:54 PM)
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Not even going to bother with the Switch stretch goal being that high. Might pick it up on Steam later on down the line if it reviews well.
Deft Beck
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(05-15-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by NinjaCoachZ

Yeah that's one thing I wish they didn't do. I kinda winced when I saw it. Just seems to be in poor taste.

Given that the theme of the story seems to be embracing diversity and making a constructive effort towards social change in lieu of polarization and despair, I think it's meant to tie into how it's an overall allegory for the current zeitgeist.
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 06:55 PM)
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Originally Posted by ramoisdead

It was also another thing that put me off. Just forget for a sec that the "Make ______ Great Again" is now portrayed in negative connotation in the West, when were rhythm action games bad?? If anything they were just super niche.

I think that's what they're trying to convey with the phrase, that they want to bring back the genre. Considering the game is literally about a rabbit trying to save a dystopian world where people fear diversity and "a toxic air of protectionism is taking hold", I assume whoever came up with it didn't know the slogan was also associated with Trump.
Ridley327
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(05-15-2017, 06:56 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

They've added some FAQ sections to address a few questions people have been asking.

Oh wow, they really are going at this on their own. I wish them a lot of luck, but I'll be damned if it's not a real risk for them.
FearlessBelgian
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(05-15-2017, 06:57 PM)
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855.000 ? No change to be financed ... This budget are crazy for a game like it ...
RecRoulette
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(05-15-2017, 06:58 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

They've added some FAQ sections to address a few questions people have been asking.

I sort of get where they are coming from, but it would've been nice to have more platforms prioritized over stuff like multiplayer.

Then again...the alternate endings for tracks in Gitaroo Man multiplayer were awesome...
Deft Beck
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(05-15-2017, 06:59 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

I think that's what they're trying to convey with the phrase, that they want to bring back the genre. Considering the game is literally about a rabbit trying to save a dystopian world where people fear diversity and "a toxic air of protectionism is taking hold", I assume whoever came up with it didn't know the slogan was also associated with Trump.

It could also be a riff on that. Turning the phrase around. Making diversity a plus, instead of turning away everything and protecting what you have.
TheSpoiler
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(05-15-2017, 07:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by Kaako

Can't disagree about nailing the importance of your initial KS unveiling. But is early gameplay reveal not being there at announcement as lethal as we are making it sound to be?

Not in a bubble by itself. But taken in full with everything else?

Yes.

These dudes are punching for 1 million just to get the game off the ground, nevermind putting things like Switch releases behind a few more million after that. Game development is costly, but years and years of lowballing, people are less likely to fund something with a higher number than the usual.

And, conceptually speaking, it seems like people still question how the game is played and want a visual aspect.

Again, had it been a simple announcement with lower goals, I doubt people would care as much. But backers, and by that extension, the average consumer, needs more reasons to fund something than not fund it.
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 07:04 PM)
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Originally Posted by RecRoulette

I sort of get where they are coming from, but it would've been nice to have more platforms prioritized over stuff like multiplayer.

Then again...the alternate endings for tracks in Gitaroo Man multiplayer were awesome...

I'd imagine there's a much better chance of seeing the game get ported to another platform later than there is of seeing extra levels and multiplayer get added after the game's already out, so I prefer it this way personally.

Originally Posted by Deft Beck

It could also be a riff on that. Turning the phrase around. Making diversity a plus, instead of turning away everything and protecting what you have.

Hey, I'd like to think so.
PoshAlligatorRD
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(05-15-2017, 07:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

I think that's what they're trying to convey with the phrase, that they want to bring back the genre. Considering the game is literally about a rabbit trying to save a dystopian world where people fear diversity and "a toxic air of protectionism is taking hold", I assume whoever came up with it didn't know the slogan was also associated with Trump.

Also worth noting that slogan was originally in Japanese. I'm not sure it was ever officially translated, but that is pretty much what it would mean. The exact wording isn't really quite the same.
petethepanda
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(05-15-2017, 07:09 PM)
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I dunno. I really dig the art style, the mashup of cultures and the idea of changing up lyrics on the fly, but PaRappa is one of the only major rhythm games that I've just never enjoyed playing and it's kind of bummer to see that this is along those lines. I guess we'll just have to see how it actually plays.

...not confident in any rhythm game hitting 1mil on Kickstarter, though.
The Bankslammer
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(05-15-2017, 07:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

I assume whoever came up with it didn't know the slogan was also associated with Trump.

they most definitely know. the japanese version uses the same phrasing translations of trump use. yano even splits his time between being in japan and america. it's just a really bad look and i'm not sure what they're thinking.

it's cocky too considering the genre that's supposedly in need of a return to greatness has evolved to utilize tons of unique input methods, massive songlists, and lengthy difficulty curves to keep people playing for years. yet they're pitching a 6 song rhythm game with the same kind of gameplay that's been done dozens of times before (with the branching dialog twist)

the genre desperately needs more story-based rhythm game titles for sure, but the pitch here does little to convince me that this model is a good value proposition
Camjo-Z
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(05-15-2017, 07:40 PM)
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Originally Posted by The Bankslammer

they most definitely know. the japanese version uses the same phrasing translations of trump use. yano even splits his time between being in japan and america. it's just a really bad look and i'm not sure what they're thinking.

it's cocky too considering the genre that's supposedly in need of a return to greatness has evolved to utilize tons of unique input methods, massive songlists, and lengthy difficulty curves to keep people playing for years. yet they're pitching a 6 song rhythm game with the same kind of gameplay that's been done dozens of times before (with the branching dialog twist)

the genre desperately needs more story-based rhythm game titles for sure, but the pitch here does little to convince me that this model is a good value proposition

:V

Well, hopefully they don't regret using it as a slogan then.

Also, I hadn't thought about it until you brought it up, but now I am wondering what they plan to bring to the table in comparison to other modern rhythm games. PaRappa has 6 songs and lasts an hour, but that's $15 on PSN and they're asking $40 for this. (Obviously this will have more mechanical depth, but at the end of the day 6 stages is 6 stages.)

I find it especially interesting considering this interview back in 2011:

There is another factor that's been holding the series back recently. "It's not just content issues -- there's also business issues," NanaOn-Sha director of development Dewi Tanner explained. "How people pay for games has changed compared to 15 years ago. We're not sure that people would be willing to pay $50 for something with 5, 6 stages." While games like Rock Band allow developers to use premade, licensed music and build universal animations, in a game like Parappa "you have to build everything up for these character-based music games. Music, animations, settings, script, and so on."

Perhaps they feel the branching dialogue system adds enough variety to make it worth the pricetag and give it some longevity. Even some prototype gameplay footage would go a long way in selling the concept.
Mafro
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(05-15-2017, 07:52 PM)
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That Switch goal is crazy high. I'll wait on the slim chance of that actually being reached before backing, not really interested in owning it on the other formats since I mostly play on handheld these days.
The Bankslammer
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(05-15-2017, 08:14 PM)
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Originally Posted by Camjo-Z

Also, I hadn't thought about it until you brought it up, but now I am wondering what they plan to bring to the table in comparison to other modern rhythm games. PaRappa has 6 songs and lasts an hour, but that's $15 on PSN and they're asking $40 for this. (Obviously this will have more mechanical depth, but at the end of the day 6 stages is 6 stages.)

I find it especially interesting considering this interview back in 2011:

Perhaps they feel the branching dialogue system adds enough variety to make it worth the pricetag and give it some longevity. Even some prototype gameplay footage would go a long way in selling the concept.

i wholeheartedly believe one-time playthrough, short music games don't need to be devalued. the arcade-style music game genre is extremely saturated as is. i just don't see exactly what it is this project brings that makes up for the content deficit.

is it the quality of the original music? they'd better give me samples to prove it. is it the animation during the songs? will that actually look like the sample screens, and how will it animate? is it the story and cutscenes? better cover what those will be like too. is it the writing and branching lyrics? citing epic rap battles doesn't exactly fill me with confidence so show me some of the lines you got.

i so badly want to be able to support this kind of game (well, mostly. i feel i've had my fill of kickstarter lol) but i don't want to just take them at their word because i'm such a huge fan of their prior works. i need to see what it is about the project that'll make people excited and inject some life back into the genre. as it stands, i don't feel like main selling point of the branching lyrics is nearly enough.
canedaddy
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(05-15-2017, 08:16 PM)
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That rabbit is UGLY. Wow. How can something that hideous come from the creators of the awesome Parappa and Gitaroo Man?

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