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JareBear
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(05-20-2017, 02:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ricerocket

I feel like fps matters a lot with input/latency in aiming when it comes to shooters compared to 4k/ultra settings To me that is a big advantage, matters more. Some games go 30 sp, 60 pvp for console?

Read the post right above yours

Originally Posted by op_ivy

Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with rural shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"No console parity" is and has been a joke

molnizzle
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(05-20-2017, 02:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ricerocket

I feel like fps matters a lot with input/latency in aiming when it comes to shooters compared to 4k/ultra settings To me that is a big advantage, matters more. Some games go 30 sp, 60 pvp for console?

I believe that Destiny has the lowest input lag of any shooter on console and it runs at 30fps. It's all about dev priorities.

It's true that for fast pace games it's easier to keep track of the action at 60fps vs 30fps. That might feel like an advantage. Here's the thing, though... you can have that advantage too if you want it. You're not forbidden from buying a Scorpio.

...but if it's not important to you, then don't. Your games will still work.
perfectsil
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(05-20-2017, 02:45 AM)
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HOw would they enforce it anyway? Xbox test team is not going to play every game for hundreds of hours to find frame rate dips , and do that all again after every patch
Collingwood
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(05-20-2017, 02:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by josecitoxnyo

Saving this thread for when they announced D2 is 30fps too.

Should be hilarious.

Originally Posted by Ricerocket

What happened to leaving no Xbox 1 users behind according to Phil? That kind of shits on the current 30m+ x1 users.

Also Scorpio is using a Jaguar cpu too, I wouldn't have that high expectation for fps.

Staggering there are so many people who don't get how all this works.
JareBear
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(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

I believe that Destiny has the lowest input lag of any shooter on console and it runs at 30fps. It's all about dev priorities.

It's true that for fast pace games it's easier to keep track of the action at 60fps vs 30fps. That might feel like an advantage. Here's the thing, though... you can have that advantage too if you want it. You're not forbidden from buying a Scorpio.

...but if it's not important to you, then don't. Your games will still work.

The bolded part is what most people seem to really struggle to accept or agree with, which is unfortunate.
Apoleptica
Banned
(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)
Was it confirmed that Destiny 2 would be 30 fps on scorpio? Where did this idea come from?
Boke1879
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(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

It's hampered by the same awful CPU architecture but has some pretty nice advantages over Pro other than that.

Only time will tell.

I mean sales wise.
Falchion
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(05-20-2017, 02:46 AM)
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Smart move on their part.
JareBear
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(05-20-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apoleptica

Was it confirmed that Destiny 2 would be 30 fps on scorpio? Where did this idea come from?

Destiny 2 Scorpio-specific details are not confirmed yet. They said they can't talk about that version yet.
Boke1879
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(05-20-2017, 02:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apoleptica

Was it confirmed that Destiny 2 would be 30 fps on scorpio? Where did this idea come from?

Bungie states consoles will be 30fps and Scorpio still suffers from the CPU
Fisty
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(05-20-2017, 02:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

Bungie states consoles will be 30fps and Scorpio still suffers from the CPU

Scorpio isn't a console though, it's a box full of dreams
molnizzle
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(05-20-2017, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

Scorpio isn't a console though, it's a box full of dreams

True.
JareBear
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(05-20-2017, 02:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

Bungie states consoles will be 30fps and Scorpio still suffers from the CPU

False. They made a point to specifically state they cant discuss details of the Scorpio version yet. You. Are. Wrong.

When they say 30fps on consoles, Scorpio isn't included in that because the Scorpio version is still under wraps.

It may be the same in the end but we don't know for sure yet.
Collingwood
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(05-20-2017, 02:51 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apoleptica

Was it confirmed that Destiny 2 would be 30 fps on scorpio? Where did this idea come from?

Nope.

The fact that Bungie has publicly said they can't speak about the Scorpio version is a point of contention. Or it's just due to the Destiny Sony marketing? Who knows.
Wamb0wneD
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(05-20-2017, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

Scorpio isn't a console though, it's a box full of dreams

Haha.
molnizzle
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(05-20-2017, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear

False. They made a point to specifically state they cant discuss details of the Scorpio version yet. You. Are. Wrong.

When they say 30fps on consoles, Scorpio isn't included in that because the Scorpio version is still under wraps.

It may be the same in the end but we don't know for sure yet.

eh, you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're expecting 60fps for D2 on Scorpio. That extra .2 GHz of CPU power over the Pro isn't gonna be the differentiator that gives D2 the juice to run at 60. Certainly not from Bungie who's all about parity. Certainly not in their flagship series that is heavily marketed by Sony and will likely be bundled with PS4 Pro's this holiday.
gamz
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(05-20-2017, 02:52 AM)
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Originally Posted by Collingwood

Nope.

The fact that Bungie has publicly said they can't speak about the Scorpio version is a point of contention. Or it's just due to the Destiny Sony marketing? Who knows.

Marketing has nothing to do with mandating fps. I don't know why people think this? It's silly.
gamz
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(05-20-2017, 02:54 AM)
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Originally Posted by molnizzle

eh, you're setting yourself up for disappointment if you're expecting 60fps for D2 on Scorpio. That extra .2 GHz of CPU power over the Pro isn't gonna be the differentiator that gives D2 the juice to run at 60. Certainly not from Bungie who's all about parity. Certainly not in their flagship series that is heavily marketed by Sony and will likely be bundled with PS4 Pro's this holiday.

I don't think Bungie gives a crap who there game sells best. Sales are sales.
Fisty
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(05-20-2017, 02:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

Marketing has nothing to do with mandating fps. I don't know why people think this? It's silly.

The same reason people think an extra 9% of CPU power will produce 30 extra frames. It's silly.
Collingwood
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(05-20-2017, 02:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

Marketing has nothing to do with mandating fps. I don't know why people think this? It's silly.

I know.

I"m saying the Destiny Marketing could by why Bungie won't talk about the Scorpio version.
molnizzle
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(05-20-2017, 02:56 AM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

I don't think Bungie gives a crap who there game sells best. Sales are sales.

Wouldn't be Bungie's call.
ElFly
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(05-20-2017, 02:57 AM)
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good decision

after all, the free market will speak helped by the framerate counter in front of the machine
The Jazz Cabbage Master
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(05-20-2017, 02:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by op_ivy

Rank the advantages:

Head phones vs stereo tv
Surround sound vs stereo tv
Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
480p/720p tv vs 1080p
1080p tv vs 4k tv
Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
shit tier internet vs Google fiber
30 fps vs 60 fps

"Mp console parity" is and has been a joke

This actually just changed my perspective on the 30vs60fps parity debate because you reminded me of all the disparities that I've taken for granted or outright forgotten about. 🙏
op_ivy
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(05-20-2017, 03:00 AM)
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Am I the only one wishing halo 6 goes back to 30 fps on x1 and 1080/60 or 4k/30 on scorpio? Yeah? Ok then, carry on...

Originally Posted by TheLover

This actually just changed my perspective on the 30vs60fps parity debate because you reminded me of all the disparities that I've taken for granted or outright forgotten about. 🙏

/high five
NeoMetallix
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(05-20-2017, 03:01 AM)
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Everyone was complaining about Pro before it released and said it's give unfair advantage to Pro multiplayer but now people are applauding it? Lol gamers are so fickle.
rokkerkory
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(05-20-2017, 03:02 AM)
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Imagine if 1080p60 mode was avail on scorpio! Woot
lukeskymac
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(05-20-2017, 03:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by Boke1879

Expect it to perform similar to the PS4Pro

Relative to XB1 sales you mean. It won't see similar numbers to the Pro.
Collingwood
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(05-20-2017, 03:04 AM)
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Originally Posted by NeoMetallix

Everyone was complaining about Pro before it released and said it's give unfair advantage to Pro multiplayer but now people are applauding it? Lol gamers are so fickle.

Huh? People are saying the same thing now about Scorpio as a reason why it won't have 60.

It's a dumb reason given PC Cross play is a thing.

Gears 4 has ranked PC/Xbox play which means? 60 v 30.
gamz
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(05-20-2017, 03:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by lukeskymac

Relative to XB1 sales you mean. It won't see similar numbers to the Pro.

Agreed. No way.

edit: you do mean it'll sell way more, right?
Apoleptica
Banned
(05-20-2017, 03:05 AM)

Originally Posted by op_ivy

Am I the only one wishing halo 6 goes back to 30 fps on x1 and 1080/60 or 4k/30 on scorpio? Yeah? Ok then, carry on...

I just hope they don't make the enemy ai have animations that are at a different framerate to the gameplay depending on distance. Looked like complete shit in halo 5.
molnizzle
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(05-20-2017, 03:05 AM)
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Originally Posted by rokkerkory

Imagine if 1080p60 mode was avail on scorpio! Woot

I would blood sacrifice my PS4 through open flame under a gilded portrait of Phil Spencer.
op_ivy
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(05-20-2017, 03:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Apoleptica

I just hope they don't make the enemy ai have animations that are at a different framerate to the gameplay depending on distance. Looked like complete shit in halo 5.

I actually never really noticed. And if that's what it took to give us a solid 60, it was worth it.
BleedOrange
Banned
(05-20-2017, 03:08 AM)

Originally Posted by Ricerocket

What happened to leaving no Xbox 1 users behind according to Phil? That kind of shits on the current 30m+ x1 users.

Also Scorpio is using a Jaguar cpu too, I wouldn't have that high expectation for fps.

Should we also force Xbox Scorpio users to use 1080p resolution because OG Xbox One exists? Is that really how your thought process works?
Paragon
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(05-20-2017, 03:20 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

The same reason people think an extra 9% of CPU power will produce 30 extra frames. It's silly.

If the game is built to run at 30 FPS on the PlayStation 4 which has a 1.6GHz CPU, and Scorpio runs that same CPU at 2.3GHz, that's a 44% increase, not 9%.

Assuming that the PS4 CPU is maxed-out at 30 FPS, a 44% increase won't be enough to run the game at 60 FPS on Scorpio.
But if you were to use a variable refresh rate display (FreeSync or HDMI 2.1 VRR) you could unlock the framerate and it might run around 45 FPS on average rather than 30 FPS - which is a worthwhile improvement.

That's the advantage Scorpio has over the PlayStation 4 Pro.
Even if the PS4 Pro's CPU at 2.1GHz could run the game with an average of around 40 FPS rather than 30 FPS, without support for VRR displays 40 FPS at 60Hz results in bad stuttering and screen tearing or input lag.
You have to lock it to 30 FPS for smooth gameplay.

30 FPS at 60Hz is fine, and 60 FPS at 60Hz is smooth, but anything in between the two at 60Hz stutters terribly due to the uneven frame-pacing.
Here's a comparison I recorded a while back using Dark Souls 3:

Originally Posted by Paragon

Last edited by Paragon; 05-20-2017 at 03:22 AM.
JareBear
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(05-20-2017, 03:22 AM)
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Originally Posted by Garrett Hawke

on pc. even if the scorpio cpu could handle it, i doubt the gpu could.

The GPU could handle 4k/60 with a mix of medium/high settings. The CPU stands no chance though.

Scorpio is most likely going to make its money with 1080p/60 coupled with native 4k/30 bundled options for games as a standard offering, hopefully
op_ivy
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(05-20-2017, 03:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by JareBear


Scorpio is most likely going to make its money with 1080p/60 coupled with native 4k/30 bundled options for games as a standard offering, hopefully

I'm still doubtful, but if this is true, MS, TAKE MY MONEY!
Ricerocket
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(05-20-2017, 03:23 AM)
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Originally Posted by BleedOrange

Should we also force Xbox Scorpio users to use 1080p resolution because OG Xbox One exists? Is that really how your thought process works?

No? I explained a few posts ahead where I was coming from, I value speed of input over gfx.
13ruce
Banned
(05-20-2017, 03:25 AM)
Silly question but can 30fps players beat 60fps players competitive wise? Or are the 60fps players at a huge advantage?
Leafhopper
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(05-20-2017, 03:25 AM)
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Originally Posted by Fisty

Scorpio isn't a console though, it's a box full of dreams

"When is the NX coming out? That Switch thing is just a stop gap right?"
op_ivy
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(05-20-2017, 03:26 AM)
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Originally Posted by Ricerocket

No? I explained a few posts ahead where I was coming from, I value speed of input over gfx.

Then lockout people with crummy gaming tvs?
Tyraniboah
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(05-20-2017, 03:27 AM)
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My question in all of this is this: how much of an advantage would hypothetical 60 fps Destiny players have over 30 fps players? I've read things saying that the server tick rate, monitor/TV refresh rate, lag, etc make a bigger difference...but I'm not sure.

PC players obviously deal with this already, so it can't be that deep, can it?
bananas
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(05-20-2017, 03:27 AM)
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Originally Posted by Collingwood

Huh? People are saying the same thing now about Scorpio as a reason why it won't have 60.

It's a dumb reason given PC Cross play is a thing.

Gears 4 has ranked PC/Xbox play which means? 60 v 30.

Gears 4 MP runs at 60fps on Xbox One.
Curufinwe
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(05-20-2017, 03:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

Agreed. No way.

edit: you do mean it'll sell way more, right?

All over the world gamers are just frothing at the mouth to pay up for a new version of the Xbone. Especially since the exchange rate conversion always works out so nicely for people outside the US.
Vigilant Gambit
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(05-20-2017, 03:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Kayant

already don't mandate any kind of minimum support like the Pro(i.e 1080p) as far as with know.

This is false. The only mandate for Pro is, basically, the Pro version has to at least match the base version in terms of performance and graphical fidelity. It's a completely reasonable thing.
Liliana Eileen
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(05-20-2017, 03:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by NeoMetallix

Everyone was complaining about Pro before it released and said it's give unfair advantage to Pro multiplayer but now people are applauding it? Lol gamers are so fickle.

Your post history...holy shit

This is a great thing, no need to bring console wars into this
op_ivy
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(05-20-2017, 03:33 AM)
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Originally Posted by Tyraniboah

My question in all of this is this: how much of an advantage would hypothetical 60 fps Destiny players have over 30 fps players? I've read things saying that the server tick rate, monitor/TV refresh rate, lag, etc make a bigger difference...but I'm not sure.

PC players obviously deal with this already, so it can't be that deep, can it?

Glad you asked (my own opinion):

Ranking the advantages:

1) Tv with huge input lag vs gaming monitor with far less
2) shit tier internet vs Google fiber
3) Default controller vs elite (or scuff) and paddles
4) 30 fps vs 60 fps
5)Head phones/surround vs stereo tv
6)480p/720p/1080p vs 4k tv
BleedOrange
Banned
(05-20-2017, 03:39 AM)

Originally Posted by Ricerocket

No? I explained a few posts ahead where I was coming from, I value speed of input over gfx.

That's cool, but some people value visual acuity over input speed. I'm not saying that's more advantageous for an arena shooter (it's probably not), but there are entire classes of games where visual acuity is a more game-affecting advantage than FPS.

Take PLAYERUNKNOWN'S BATTLEGROUNDS for example, a game that is coming to consoles. In that game being able to target acquire is paramount, and higher resolutions vastly improve your ability to target acquire, so the resolution differences between PS4 and PS4 Pro are an inherent, game-affecting, advantage. One that Sony completely whitewashes as insignificant when it isn't.

What I'm saying is trying to push a narrative that FPS differences are the only advantages is factually incorrect and is honestly patronizing to console audiences. Sony can't have it both ways, either they should mandate resolution AND fps parity or mandate neither, and we all know what the actual choice should be.
AyaisMUsikWhore
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(05-20-2017, 03:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by rokkerkory

Imagine if 1080p60 mode was avail on scorpio! Woot

This seems like what would happen. At this point it's all but announced. This is just me being optimistic
lukeskymac
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(05-20-2017, 03:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by gamz

Agreed. No way.

edit: you do mean it'll sell way more, right?

Why the hell would it? It's an Xbox platform, which means it'll barely sell outside US, UK, and some random LA countries. It's a premium model that also has few console exclusives and almost no actual exclusive thanks to PC, so it only makes sense to the very specific "US/UK Xbox gamer that wants better IQ but not a PC" demographic.
Last edited by lukeskymac; 05-20-2017 at 03:48 AM.
Ahasverus
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(05-20-2017, 03:43 AM)
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Scorpio will make the Pro so much better thanks to competition. Please release soon, and be excellent.

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