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LTTP: Dark Souls II (an annual April journey...)

J

joms5

Member
Before we even start, please keep shitposting out of this thread. There are numerous thread to discuss where Dark Souls II ranks among the series so best to do it in those. (Thanks ponpo!)

So last year I finally decided to put my skills to the test and manned up to play Dark Souls. I always adored the art direction but was afraid of the difficulty. After playing the first game it became one of my favorite games of all time, and i've always been chasing that Dark Souls high you get from beating a boss, finding a shortcut or discovering a secret.

For those interested in my Dark Souls exploits see the following:
https://www.giantbomb.com/dark-souls/3030-32697/forums/just-started-dark-souls-for-the-first-time-i-know--1794749/#81

So it's April. And now I embark upon a month long quest to beat the game that many consider the worst Souls game. But that's not what this thread is for.

Here's why i'm making this thread.

A) This game is clearly different than Dark Souls 1 and that's where I need help.

B) It's always nice to relive a game you played through another person eyes.

C) It's help to vocalize my joy and frustration with these games.

Rules (only one):
Please keep spoilers to zero. I don't want any hints or secrets given away unless I specifically ask for it. Also for those interested, I am playing vanilla Dark Souls II (not SOTFS) on the PC with ethernet cable unplugged (don't want any online interaction).


Now let's not delay.

So what have I done so far? Explored Things Betwixt and got sad when I ran out of torch and couldn't light all the torch stands. Tried fighting those big ogre guys at the bottom near the lake and got my ass handed to me. Made it out to Majula. Talked to some NPC's, got the Blacksmith door open as well as the big house (forget the proper name).

Went to the Forest of Fallen Giants and still can't kill the knight sitting against the tree. Made my way to the castle area, past the 5 ballista's where there are some explosive barrels and 1 guy throwing firebombs down. Figured there must be an easier or more ideal path.

So I got my ass to Heide's Tower of Flame. Instantly shitting my pants at the size of the enemies. Realize they're nothing to be worried about but gotta be very careful near edges. Made it to first boss and got him down to 3/4 health before eating it. Took a break for tonight.

HELP!

How frugal do I have to be with effigies? Right now my health is at half of what it should be due to dying and having my full health back would be very beneficial right now. I just don't want to waste them if they're in short supply? Can you ever buy them at a store?

Same goes for life gems. Do I have to use them sparingly. So far I think i've only used 2 or 3. Got about 29 in my inventory. I've mainly been using Estus Flasks. Now I have 3 of them but it's tough with just 3 right now.

I'm finding the game much harder to start than Dark Souls 1. My weapon sucks, armour is blah, shield is meh. Is it like this for everyone?

Finally can I just say how shitty of a system the "die and lose a bit of your health bar" is. Like seriously, fuck that. I don't even feel comfortable exploring knowing that death will ultimately result in a permanent lose of life for me. Is there a maximum threshold that you lose?

Btw, this game looks damned amazing!

ECYar6J.jpg

EjQJC3g.jpg

qjhraCh.jpg
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Rules (only one):
Please keep spoilers to zero.
Click to expand...

Because this is a Dark Souls 2 thread, you might want to add "please keep shitposting to zero" as well, lest your thread get derailed with every bump.
 
F0rneus

F0rneus

Tears in the rain
The is a maximum threshold for health loss. And there are ways to mitigate that loss even hollowed. Early ways.
 
M

Manu

Member
Randam said:
the game is ugly as hell..
Click to expand...

It's a mixed bag, really. When it looks good, it looks amazing. When it looks bad, it looks pretty fucking awful.

I've been feeling like playing DS2 lately though, after The Ringed City I want more Souls and DS1, despite being the superior game, is the one where I like the start the least and it takes too long before you can settle for a cool build.

Also DS2 has a better character creator.

I'll probably jump back into DS2 on PS3 and plat it (I already have the plat in PS4)
 
P

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
joms5 said:
How frugal do I have to be with effigies? Right now my health is at half of what it should be due to dying and having my full health back would be very beneficial right now. I just don't want to waste them if they're in short supply? Can you ever buy them at a store?

Same goes for life gems. Do I have to use them sparingly. So far I think i've only used 2 or 3. Got about 29 in my inventory. I've mainly been using Estus Flasks. Now I have 3 of them but it's tough with just 3 right now.

I'm finding the game much harder to start than Dark Souls 1. My weapon sucks, armour is blah, shield is meh. Is it like this for everyone?

Finally can I just say how shitty of a system the "die and lose a bit of your health bar" is. Like seriously, fuck that. I don't even feel comfortable exploring knowing that death will ultimately result in a permanent lose of life for me. Is there a maximum threshold that you lose?
Click to expand...


1. Found effegies are limited per playthrough, as are purchased ones, but they can be farmed, either through enemies or bonfire ascetics.

2. Spam lifegems all you want. You can buy them easily later.

3. Demon's Souls system do not bully.
 
L

Lork

Member
Since you're playing the original version you can use rings of life protection to basically opt out of the penalty for death. It's kind of ridiculous.

I don't think there are any shops with an infinite supply of human effigies, but the game hands them out like candy and you won't really be needing them anyway once you get your hands on one of those rings. I would just use one any time you feel even a little bit uncomfortable with where your health is at.
 
1

11037

Banned
I hope you enjoy Dark Souls 2, despite what most people say it's actually not bad and is pretty good.

A quick tip for you is that if you're having trouble fighting multiple enemies at once don't lock on. It will allow you to move around more freely and attack easier. Same goes for some of the bigger enemies.
 
A

AWizardDidIt

Member
Majula is possibly my favorite zone in a Souls game. From atmosphere to music to the theming of the area and how you gather all these lost souls who have forgotten themselves. It's just great.
 
T

Tarextherex

Banned
You can buy unlimited lifegems once you unlock the item merchant

You can buy effigies from some people but they are in usually limited quantities. There's tons of ways to get more but it's not worth it to waste too much of them early game

There's a fire longsword in the forest of fallen giants that's a very good early game weapon, also you get tons of titanite in this game so you can easily +10 many pieces of equipment, this isn't like DS1 where slabs were incredibly scarce. The beginning is indeed rough, you should aim to get like around 100 agility so rolling feels like DS1, invincibilty frames and all. Once you get those and beat the first boss that's when you'll "get started" with the game


It may not have DS1's world structure(the most appealing part of that game tbh) but it's still a huge game that will ease your Souls itch, it got a great variety of areas and weapons/spells/items/etc. The DLC is very good as well, definitely worth playing. Have fun!
 
O

Orochinagis

Member
How frugal do I have to be with effigies? Right now my health is at half of what it should be due to dying and having my full health back would be very beneficial right now. I just don't want to waste them if they're in short supply? Can you ever buy them at a store?

Same goes for life gems. Do I have to use them sparingly. So far I think i've only used 2 or 3. Got about 29 in my inventory. I've mainly been using Estus Flasks. Now I have 3 of them but it's tough with just 3 right now.

I'm finding the game much harder to start than Dark Souls 1. My weapon sucks, armour is blah, shield is meh. Is it like this for everyone?

Finally can I just say how shitty of a system the "die and lose a bit of your health bar" is. Like seriously, fuck that. I don't even feel comfortable exploring knowing that death will ultimately result in a permanent lose of life for me. Is there a maximum threshold that you lose?
Click to expand...

1.-Efigies are for restoring that health bar you lose every time you die, online coop and summoning people, use them when you hit the hard cap not right after you lose your humanity, using coop can give you free efigies.

2.-Use life gems before flasks you will get bigger life gem so dont be afraid to use them but dont overuse them since you will need them a lot until you get enough flask fragments to convert to flask uses, it would take a good bunch of time.

3.-Most of the classes start strong, maybe you are rushing the enemies? Cleric starter melee is easy mode

4.-Dont die a lot, sounds trollish but you have to slow your pace and explore carefully
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
DS2 is a very flawed game, but if you can get past those imperfections, you'll find a worthy sequel to DS1. Depending on the day and my mood, I'd be willing to call it my favorite Souls game.

As for the difficulty you're experiencing, it may be due to how rolls work this time around:
-encumbrance % only determines the speed/distance of the roll, iframes are unaffected
-Agility(increased by Adaptability and Attunement) now determines your iframes
-your iframes at base Agility are garbage, so you're likely to get hit by things that you wouldn't have in DS1 until you pump it up a bit

Here's a handy chart showing the break points (warning: large image)

Hope you enjoy, OP!
 
A

.Anema

Member
Hummmm.
- Upgrade ADP to at least 20 ASAP.
- Don't worry about life gems, you can buy thousands later in the game.
- Vanilla is far easier than SOTFS, but if you're having a hard time look for the Drangleic armor and shield after the first boss (and the second/optional). Also the Bastard Sword (and upgrade it everytime you can)
- Don't listen the haters. it's a great game, maybe not better than any Souls, but still great.
- Enjoy Majula's atmosphere. Best area in Souls.
- In Heide's Tower you can find a solution for the life cut when you're hollow.
 
K

kimbaka

Member
The beginning of the game can definitely be a bit frustrating since the starting equipment is awful and not great for dealing with fighting multiple enemies at once which the game loves to throw at you early on. Just keep upgrading the best weapons/shield/armor you've got and learn to lure/single out enemies when they're trying to gang up on you. If you end up with too many enemies ganging up on you, don't be afraid to run away from them until they lose interest and try the encounter again.

I didn't use any effigies in the beginning and got through just fine with half a life bar. The only time I ever really used them was when I was against certain bosses later in the game and I finished with around 45-50 so it's not some rare item. However, keeping yourself offline limits the amount of effigies you'll get as you will get an effigy each time you defeat someone who invades you.
 
5

5il3nc3r

Member
I'm actually going through the DLCs right now. Excellent content so far, they feel different from the main game. Is the DLCs made by a another team?
 
J

jacob armitage

Banned
I find focusing on using a shield for the first little while until getting ADP up is the way to go. I never minded this change, its easy to grasp and changes up play style for the start of the game.

I really adore the game, i'll be following this thread and i hope you enjoy your travels through it.
 
S

Sir Ilpalazzo

Member
I'm finding the game much harder to start than Dark Souls 1. My weapon sucks, armour is blah, shield is meh. Is it like this for everyone?
Click to expand...

DS2 is definitely harder starting out than the preceding Souls games - the nerfed dodge roll i-frames and the changes to Estus make it more punishing early on. Once you get past that initial hump, though, the game is probably easier than the first game and (outside of maybe some stuff in the DLC) doesn't have much in the way of difficulty spikes.
 
1

11037

Banned
5il3nc3r said:
I'm actually going through the DLCs right now. Excellent content so far, they feel different from the main game. Is the DLCs made by a another team?
Click to expand...
Nope, not at all. It's just the DS2 team didn't have to worry about time constraints and presumably learned from their mistakes from the base game.

Dark Souls 2 had a very troubled development.
 
S

Steiner84

All 26 hours. Multiple times.
love this game.
If you allready like it and come overcome the punishment at the bginning it only gets better.
 
SRTtoZ

SRTtoZ

Member
Still my favorite Dark Souls game. The build diversity, the amount of content including the dlcs, the multiplayer, the better ng+ modes. It's the one Souls game I can keep going back to and each build feels vastly different. It definitely starts out harder and you have to get your agility up to around 100 so you can roll and perform actions faster.
 
F

Ferr986

Member
5il3nc3r said:
I'm actually going through the DLCs right now. Excellent content so far, they feel different from the main game. Is the DLCs made by a another team?
Click to expand...

Original DS2 changed directors mid development and had to cut a lot of stuff. DLC had a more stable development.
 
D

daxy

Member
Get the greatsword asap and wreck everybody's shit. Put enough points into strength to one hand it, put another ultra greatsword in your other hand, and watch invaders run at the mere sight of you.
 
F

FataIChoice

Member
I'm pretty close to the end of SotFS now and am polishing off the last of the DLC content before moving onto the last bosses of main game, pretty early on I got over almost all my qualms with the game and have really enjoyed the game except for one specific watery area.

I only ever used effigies to access certain content and maybe burned through 20 total. Having like 80 leftover at the end. I primarily used the ring that reduces the hp loss from being hollow. You can have four rings so I never felt I was restricted by using it.

I've also found strike weapons are really useful in this game due to the large number of armoured enemies. So after starting as a turtle with a good spear I was advised by GAF to try the mace and have been power stancing maces since.

I agree with what some others are saying, the DLC are some of my favourite content in the game. The first DLC is a great area but I wasn't big on the bosses. Second DLC I loved the bosses and liked the area but not nearly as much as the first one. Third DLC is very cool but feels a lot shorter and smaller, haven't got to the final boss of this area yet so can't speak for it.

Also, I have found the bonfires/shortcuts are placed basically perfect for each area. I think I had weapons break once fairly early on, but never since and have never really had to use any consumable but estus flasks.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
1. Effigies are pretty common.

2. Life gems are really cheap to buy. You should use them if you need them.

3. My starter weapons as a Swordswoman lasted me for pretty much the entire game.

4. I like it. It gives you an actual reason to be human just like how soul form halved your health in Demon's Souls. There is a ring at Heide's that limits the max amount your health can be reduced by.
 
T

tsundoku

Member
im pretty sure the magic number is 16 for adaptability. its somewhere in the nineties for agilities and its fine.

over the course of the game i might have brought my agility up to 99 but never over
 
F

Ferr986

Member
tsundoku said:
im pretty sure the magic number is 16 for adaptability. its somewhere in the nineties for agilities and its fine.

over the course of the game i might have brought my agility up to 99 but never over
Click to expand...

Well, it depends, both ADP and ATT raises Agility, so if you're a caster you don't have to level ADP as much.

99 is the minimum Agility I would recommend. It would be around Dark Souls 1 mid roll. 105 Agility is equivalent to a fast roll in Souls 1 (talking about i-frames, of course).

More than 105 makes no much sense because you waste so much levels, but if you're going for a no shield melee or caster I would recomment 105.
 
O

Ordinaryundone

Member
Dual wielding power-stanced Maces are OP as hell in the original version due to the abundance of enemies weak to blunt damage. I had the most fun with DS2 when I stopped using a shield and instead started worrying about how to maximize my DPS and playing more aggressively with dodges and the constant regen from life gems. Sort of like a prototype for Bloodborne. Enemies in DS2 are weirdly aggressive and can attack relentlessly, making playing defensively not very practical or fun (Dragon Shrine good gravy.....)

DS2 is weird for me, with some of the biggest highs and lows in the series. It's very inconsistent, the game can go from genius to disappointing and back again very quickly, even within the same area, but one thing I will always credit it with is how many different, crazy ideas it had. It really feels like it's own thing, unlike DS3 which took great pains to step in the same footprints as DS1, and that makes it very memorable even when it's screwing up. Stuff like bonfire effigies, remixed NG+, environmental puzzles, build diversity and respecs, PVP focus, even a ranged combat focused section. It felt like an attempt to try and do a lot of things DS1 didn't, but in the process didn't refine or recreate what it did.

Also weirdly enough it might also be my most played Souls game. Split between vanilla and SOTFS but I had a serious case of alt-itis in that game due to all the different weapons and magic types.
 
J

joms5

Member
Damn. Let me just say that people always talk shit about how awful the DS community is but the help that people have provided in this thread (along with the words on encouragement) clearly prove that it's not always the case.

Going to use life gems, try and find better gear, hopefully get some good rings and beat that first boss. Will provide a more lengthy update tonight.

Seriously thanks to all that chimed in.

Also for those who are interested in my play style. The first game I went tank. All of Havel's gear (ring included) and used shield almost exclusively to defend only dodging when necessary. I had a mid roll which was more than sufficient for my playstyle. Beat the game using a maxed battle axe which I just got used to the animations on.
 
M

MajinSweet4

Member
You probably already learned this playing Dark Souls 1 but patience and observation are some of the most important things when playing a Souls game for the first time. This holds true for Dark Souls 2. If you're ever at something that seems way too hard, cheap or unfair, there is almost always an easier solution to the problem. A lot of people give up on the Souls games because they hear about how insanely difficult they are then assume they are supposed to bash there head against the wall when that couldn't be further from the truth. For something Dark Souls 2 specific, the game gives you tons of freedom on how you explore the world. Right from the start of the game there are four totally different routes you can take. Use this to your advantage.
 
J

John Kowalski

Banned
Loved this game outside of some specific group enemy placements.

I remember life gems being fairly common and accessible, but, well, personally i think it's always best to be as frugal as possible in souls games.

Think i made it with a scimitar through the majority of the game too, like i tend to do.
 
F

FataIChoice

Member
joms5 said:
Damn. Let me just say that people always talk shit about how awful the DS community is but the help that people have provided in this thread (along with the words on encouragement) clearly prove that it's not always the case.

Going to use life gems, try and find better gear, hopefully get some good rings and beat that first boss. Will provide a more lengthy update tonight.

Seriously thanks to all that chimed in.

Also for those who are interested in my play style. The first game I went tank. All of Havel's gear (ring included) and used shield almost exclusively to defend only dodging when necessary. I had a mid roll which was more than sufficient for my playstyle. Beat the game using a maxed battle axe which I just got used to the animations on.
Click to expand...


I'll add to your rolling too, I haven't played too much with the weight limits but I feel there is more flexibility with weight and it's impact on rolling. My rule of thumb has been to stay under 70% weight, when I played DS1 I stayed below 50%.
 
B

Boney

Banned
Don't know exactly where in the SOFS version but there's a few very easy to get estus flask shards which give you one extra estus heal which are pretty a huge lifesaver early on. Just getting it to 3 is a game changer.

Health consumables are easy to get by and the low potency ones are infinite.
 
J

joms5

Member
MajinSweet4 said:
You probably already learned this playing Dark Souls 1 but patience and observation are some of the most important things when playing a Souls game for the first time. This holds true for Dark Souls 2. If you're ever at something that seems way too hard, cheap or unfair, there is almost always an easier solution to the problem. A lot of people give up on the Souls games because they hear about how insanely difficult they are then assume they are supposed to bash there head against the wall when that couldn't be further from the truth. For something Dark Souls 2 specific, the game gives you tons of freedom on how you explore the world. Right from the start of the game there are four totally different routes you can take. Use this to your advantage.
Click to expand...

This may have been my issue with the start of the game, but I feel like i've started to ease back into the Dark Souls rhythm.

So tonight I beat this guy.

bm6KWhG.jpg


Only took me 3 or 4 tries, and did it with half health and not taking a hit. So I was quite happy with that. Not a very difficult boss but it gave me a ton of souls which helped me increase some vital stats to making my character not as fragile. Also checked my inventory and found the ring people were talking about that makes being hollow not take as much of your life bar away from you. Don't know when I got it, but must have been recently. If it was before the boss fight I really need to check my inventory more.

After him I figured I would go investigate the chapel with the draw bridge. They wouldn't possibly place another boss so close right? WHY DO I ALWAYS THINK THAT?! It screwed me in the first game and almost screwed me this time. Luckily I kept going back and getting my souls back. It wasn't a lot but I always feel like i've lost something why I lose souls for good.

So Old Dragonslayer felt more like a DS boss to me. A bit more unpredictable, getting greedy can really ruin your day and he had a number of attacks which couldn't allow you to rely on one strategy too much. He actually really reminded me of Ornstein or Smough (can never remember which one). But alas, he was no match for me.

XWBGGj1.jpg


After that I took the elevator down below the water and explored the depths of Heide's Tower of Flame. Switched my weapon from a broadsword to a mace and loving every bit of it. Made it to No Man's Wharf which looks great. Gave me a Goonies vibe but not as jolly. Thought I would find another bonfire in time but one of those long armed spider looking fuckers got me. So now I have to venture down and get my 6000 or so souls. That's where I ended tonight.

One thing i've noticed is the bonfires seem to be much more frequentin this game. May just be my imagination. Also being able to warp from the start kills a lot of the exploration which doesn't bother me so much since these starting areas seem to be quite linear.

So is it safe to start upgrading weapons this early in the game?
 
A

Audi

Neo Member
Definitely safe to start upgrading once you find a weapon you like. I finished my first SOFS run a month ago and ended taking the starter 1h Mace all the way to the end of the game. I didn't change weapons till I hit the DLC zones, and even then the 1h Mace was my back up.
 
F

FataIChoice

Member
I didn't upgrade for a long time because I wasn't sure what weapon I wanted to roll with. I got a one handed hammer in the area after No Mans Wharf that I rolled with for quite a long time. But swapped to the mace, I think it was because I wanted to power stance.

You could also upgrade to the maximum you can with just shards as they can be bought later on.
 
K

KO Traveling Hobo

Member
Blunt weapons in general are really good in DS2 because of their effectiveness against certain types of enemies. I think it's the only game in the series where the physical weapon subtypes actually matter.
 
K

Kinsei

Banned
The Old Drgonslayer reminded you of Ornstein because he is Ornstein.

Bonfires are indeed more frequent in DS2 and DS3. It's something I'm not fond of.
 
R

Red Liquorice

Member
joms5 said:
How frugal do I have to be with effigies? Right now my health is at half of what it should be due to dying and having my full health back would be very beneficial right now. I just don't want to waste them if they're in short supply? Can you ever buy them at a store?

Same goes for life gems. Do I have to use them sparingly. So far I think i've only used 2 or 3. Got about 29 in my inventory. I've mainly been using Estus Flasks. Now I have 3 of them but it's tough with just 3 right now.
Click to expand...
Pop lifegems like candy they are an infinitely purchasable consumable. Melentia sells them and she moves to Majula after defeating the Last Giant boss after you have exhausted her dialog in the Forest. I would consider them your main healing source rather than Estus.

Effigies are a bit more sparing especially very early on. When exploring new areas I wouldn't use one until you're at a boss, but once you are a decent way in the game I would use them as needed otherwise you'll end up with a dozens at games end.


joms5 said:
I'm finding the game much harder to start than Dark Souls 1. My weapon sucks, armour is blah, shield is meh. Is it like this for everyone?
Click to expand...
From memory upgrade materials do seem a bit more locked off than in DS1 where it was possible to get OP very quick if you knew where to go. Explore more!
The combat engine is also different from the first game - and different to every other game in the series - which tells you what From thought it. We play inspite of it, not because of it. :)

joms5 said:
Finally can I just say how shitty of a system the "die and lose a bit of your health bar" is. Like seriously, fuck that. I don't even feel comfortable exploring knowing that death will ultimately result in a permanent lose of life for me. Is there a maximum threshold that you lose?
Click to expand...
There's a ring to negate this somewhat, explore more!
edit - I guess you found since you fought Old Dragonslayer!
 
J

Jimnymebob

Member
Don't be afraid of losing Souls on this game. It might suck a bit early on, but as you go through it you'll be getting like 50k plus handed to you for doing practically nothing.

No Man's Wharf can be a tough area too; certainly the toughest you'll have come across so far.
 
N

Nerokis

Member
I understand not wanting to engage with the online aspect, but... In this case, I'd have to strongly recommend otherwise. Not only does DS2 do a pretty good job relative to other Souls games in that area, but it synergizes very well with everything else. As an example, the death penalty you don't like is alleviated significantly if you engage in jolly cooperation, especially after finding a certain clever item that innovates on summoning a bit.

Of course, that requires being able to connect with other people, and I don't know how active the original DS2 is on PC.
 
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