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Reggie: AM2R killed because it was a commercial product without a charge
- Thread starter benny_a
- Start date
Yep! After I bought AM2R, I had no interest in buying Samus Returns.
Leaves creators in a lurch? I mean, does it really? It sounds to me like they will nuke anything that uses their IP if its going to compete with anything they have in development. So as a creator... don't you just not use their IP at all? Distance your product enough to not be in line for getting taken down from a legal perspective. At least that seems to be the conclusion I would draw.
Well there's a difference. Many of us understand that this is their legal right and have no problem with that. Im in that bunch. But the new hotness is apparently being surprised that a company might exert their legal right to restrict someone from using their IP, whether it be a paid product or not. This is a NEW phenom among what seems to be younger gamers. Its swept across the private server scene recently too. Once upon a time you understood that a PServer or clear IP violating product existed only for so long as the IP holder decided to be gracious enough to allow it to. Now there's extreme anger and resentment (and in a few cases calls for boycott) when a Private Server or IP infringing product gets a takedown notice. Its like Im taking crazy pills.
I mean even without the remake incoming they had every right to pull it asap. Fan projects like these are always risky, especially when Nintendo's IP are involved. The time spent on fan projects are always better spelt elsewhere no matter how passionate the people are about a project
Yeah that's my take as well. Even taking Samus Returns away this game is still sold on Virtual Console today.
I think if the dev released the game as a separate patch to the Metroid II ROM (or Zero Mission since that's basically the real base) it may have avoided C&D.
Sword Of Doom
Member
Aren't they obligated to shut it down in order to protect their IP rights? Copyright law is super complicated to me but that's my understanding of it.
I don't see why people needed to ask him about it
A: It's as obvious as "Nintendo is selling the exact same thing and doesn't want competition"
B: It's Nintendo's IP and they can do what they want with it (Not that it makes it any better)
C: Reggie doesn't give very good answers to tricky questions
A: It's as obvious as "Nintendo is selling the exact same thing and doesn't want competition"
B: It's Nintendo's IP and they can do what they want with it (Not that it makes it any better)
C: Reggie doesn't give very good answers to tricky questions
This is the silliest thing to argue over. Of course a free remake of a commercially sold game (vs a completely original fan game) is going to cut into sales of both VC and official remake titles, even if those other versions play very differently from AM2R.
This project was known about for a long time, and Nintendo only shut it down after it was finished. Be grateful for that. Generally speaking, I think Nintendo is very gracious with fan projects. They don't generally C&D unless they have good reason to, as is the case here.
You people are really something else.
This project was known about for a long time, and Nintendo only shut it down after it was finished. Be grateful for that. Generally speaking, I think Nintendo is very gracious with fan projects. They don't generally C&D unless they have good reason to, as is the case here.
You people are really something else.
whalleywhat
Member
AM2R obviously doesn't have parries or 360 degree aiming either, so getting shook over this fan project is just a bad look all around. Be confident in your product.
Ninja Scooter
Member
Being able to say shit like this with conviction is why people like Reggie make a lot of money.
Honestly, this is going to be an issue that will never disappear for Nintendo. Even if Samus Returns will be coming in a few months, we are going to continue to think of the time when Nintendo shut down AM2R and how that was seen as a jerk move in spite of how Nintendo technically was within legal means to do it (which might not be right to some, but is still the case).
Only thing I'm trying to figure out is if Sonic Mania was announced when AM2R got canned. Seems like if it was, that probably could have triggered the reaction that we saw last year (whereas if it wasn't, it could have made Nintendo's move look even more "jerk-ish" if right after they said no, Sega reveals their fancy game).
Only thing I'm trying to figure out is if Sonic Mania was announced when AM2R got canned. Seems like if it was, that probably could have triggered the reaction that we saw last year (whereas if it wasn't, it could have made Nintendo's move look even more "jerk-ish" if right after they said no, Sega reveals their fancy game).
I imagine Nintendo finally announcing their own remake takes away a lot of the sting from them going after the original, given a lot of people are now just going to go "Oh, yeah, that makes sense" rather than all thinking Nintendo is just out to erase Metroid.
I mean
if Valve actually still made games and ever wanted to keep the possibility of remaking HL1 themselves, they'd have shut it down too.
Sega is good about fan games, but given the state in which they just released Sega Forever, perhaps the reality is that Sega isn't doing it because they are cool and are doing it for the fans as much as they are just doing it (or rather not doing anything at all) because they just don't care.
Which isn't to say that what Nintendo has done with other fan games is necessarily right either.
I think it's pretty clear at this point that what he means by "commercial product without charging" is not that AM2R was making a profit, but rather undermining their potential sales of M:SR.
Let me put it as a car analogy, since this is a gaming forum and that's what we usually use to talk about video games. Car analogies.
I'm Mr. Ford. I'm selling cars for X money. Someone loves my cars so much that decides to create a "fan car". It's clearly a product made by an amateur (without any negative connotations associated to that word, mind you), but it's good enough to provide the public with the necessary features to move around as they would in one of my cars. And best of all, it's completely free. That "fan car" would have entered a commercial space, in direct competition to a commercial product, but would have the advantage of not having to charge anything to be acquired.
If anything, this should be understand as praise towards AM2R. It was so good that Nintendo feared it would "eat its lunch", as some other NeoGAF user put it in a thread a few weeks ago.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Sonic Mania is a game that's being funded and published by Sega while AM2R is not funded or published by Nintendo. These situations are not at all alike.
poor messaging on top of (non existent) messaging
... but they could be. previous sonic fan games were also not made with Sega's permission, until they were.
The issue with this comparison is that Valve doesn't develop new games anymore and it'd be a cold day in hell before they developed an official Half Life remake that Black Mesa could compete with.
you know they've been selling Metroid 2 on eshop since like 2011, right?
OnionPowder
Member
Mother 3 Fan Translation take down when?
You must not have read the post you quoted where I said it was destroying Metroid sales!
This is reaching a bit but the Spanish-based developer of Metroid: Samus Returns were probably aware of AM2R when they were making up their proposal to Nintendo. They could have reached out to AM2R's developer, even hired him. It isn't like Nintendo is doing this game in-house. They ended up hiring an external development studio for the project.
I don't even know if Reggie really has that authority or position to speak about the legal aspects of AM2R or how NCL handles relations with third party development houses. I get the impression NoA is cut away from development outside of suggestions or modifying a game in order to market it for the Americas. Maybe when they were planning or readying marketing for 2017 releases and AM2R came across his desk and he made it a priority to forward it to their legal team?
I don't understand why Reggie can't just say cut and dry ... "We are planning on releasing our own remake of Metroid and associated merchandise and this conflicted with our interests on releasing a product based on our IP."
Nintendo is approaching Axenar levels of competition from fans and they don't like it. It's bad enough that they feel threatened or hungry for advertising dollars for people advertising their games on YouTube or Twitch.
Gardios
Member
UnemployedVillain
Member
Oh man those lazy fucks making it much bigger and better than AM2R did.
Shh no facts just unsubstantiated fanboy rage
whalleywhat
Member
Seeing as this coincides with a competing commercial product... never.
Stairouais
Member
Of course Nintendo has to protect their Ip's. The thing I wanted Reggie to answer is "is there an actual conversation with the creator in cases like AM2R?".
But I have to imagine that they only met a Nintendo lawyer.
But I have to imagine that they only met a Nintendo lawyer.
Sonic Mania isn't even a case of them just picking up fans to make their game for them as much as it is that it's a group of people they already had a prior working relationship from other lesser projects being given the opportunity to make something "new" that also just happened to be fan game makers at one point.
Quick someone start working on an F-Zero fangame.
Oh I don't disagree, I just think working with a fan creator to get a positive outcome would have been the best option. Killing the game like they did just generated negative headlines for no reason.
polyh3dron
Banned
So if I'm going to follow Reggie's logic here, and notice the lack of similar legal heat towards Mother 3 English fan products....
Mother 3 is never getting an official English localization.
Mother 3 is never getting an official English localization.
That was released as a patch you put on the rom you already have. Tomato also used to work at Nintendo.
"Hahahaha. Whater 3? Fuck if I know. Go ahead with whatever translation you want for that. ... yo, Bill! You know what this "Mother 3" is about?"
- Reggie Fils-Aime, President of Nintendo of America, when questioned about Mother 3.
Let it go. The dream is dead.
NOLA_Gaffer
Banned
Searching "Metroid" on Nintendo.com shows 26 games featuring Metroid characters currently available for purchase.
If Nintendo had any reason to think AM2R was taking sales from any of these 26 titles, they're in the right to get it shut down.
Geno Breaker
Banned
Lol they got shook? Samus Returns looks like a fine game on it's own, no confidence at all geez.
Compsiox
Banned
Valve has 3 full titles in development
He's using the word "commercial" weirdly (incorrectly?), but the implication is clear, especially if you read the following answer in the article on what he means by "commercial product"; he doesn't mean a product that's necessarily monetized, as he separates those two terms.
What AM2R was was a fully-fledged product, and so it had the power to be disruptive on the market and hurt Nintendo, whether it was making the creator money or not.
Translation: We were working on Samus Returns when we finally got wind of AM2R and considering that conflicts with a product we recently greenlight, we sent the C&D to ensure OUR Metroid 2 Remake sells well.
Really, this isn't a bad thing to say...but I wish they were more upfront and said 'We just don't like fan projects'. 2016 was the year Nintendo cracked down hard on fan projects, showing the gaming community they aren't SEGA or Bethesdia regarding support for fan projects.
I made peace with this realization honestly, so just happy Nintendo is doing something with Metroid again. Besides, AM2R is still floating around online, so anyone can pick it up and play it still, regardless of Samus Returns and Prime 4 happening.
Really, this isn't a bad thing to say...but I wish they were more upfront and said 'We just don't like fan projects'. 2016 was the year Nintendo cracked down hard on fan projects, showing the gaming community they aren't SEGA or Bethesdia regarding support for fan projects.
I made peace with this realization honestly, so just happy Nintendo is doing something with Metroid again. Besides, AM2R is still floating around online, so anyone can pick it up and play it still, regardless of Samus Returns and Prime 4 happening.
SporeCrawler
Member
yeah i feel appalled that some people think its okay to just steal the name and characters of agame outright and promote it as your own.
I mean, okay? This exists the way it does because Valve made the decision to allow it to. Its still their decision, and they could have gone either way on it.
Or a Golden Axe fan.
Well said Nola. I do have to agree with you in regards of how the situation are not alike at all, but the problem is that I could bet that there were those who probably made this comparison between Sonic Mania and AM2R and didn't think as far as you did on the subject. But that's the irony of timing in this industry if one is seen as a positive and the other as a negative: People will make those comparisons even if there is nothing to actually compare to begin with.
Which are? Because, unlike Samus Returns, I doubt any of them would face a threat from Black Mesa.
It's essentially the same game. If someone recently played am2r they are absolutely less likely to then go out and buy another full price remake.
Idk why that's hard for people to understand. I don't think it's that crazy unlike some of the other shit Nintendo pulled.
I don't think you're reading what I said! The remake known as Another Metroid 2 Remake (note: NOT AN OFFICIALLY LICENSED NINTENDO PRODUCT) was affecting Metroid sales BIG TIME on the eShop. The fact that you were able to play AM2R on the 3DS, Wii and Wii U just made things that much worse, especially after paying such a relatively high price for a game created by commoners.
Confounding Factor
Banned
Intellectual property is totally absurd.
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