huge meta study
Five years after completing structured weight-loss programs, the average individual maintained a weight loss of >3% of initial body weight.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full
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Has anyone abandoned low carb and still lost weight?
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huge meta study
Five years after completing structured weight-loss programs, the average individual maintained a weight loss of >3% of initial body weight.
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/74/5/579.full
So they did not (necessarily) stick to their diet? q.e.d.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Uh, consult a dietitian. They go by RD. You might get in touch by your healthcare system/policy/...I don't know, I'm from the US. It never makes any sense.
Ignore "nutritionists." That's not a certifiable title.
Ignore "nutritionists." That's not a certifiable title.
I wouldn't really call low carb a fad diet. It's been around 100+ years. Also, studies suggest it leads to more weight loss than other diets, and for longer periods of time.
Taubes and people that back his line of reasoning conjecture that something in the modern western diet (probably sugar, if not carbs in general) throws a wrench in our hormonal regulatory systems. In broad strokes, they acknowledge that calories in = calories out, but they raise a number of interesting points.
For example, when humans go through puberty, and they eat a ton of excess calories, why are those calories channeled into building certain bodily tissues and not just in body fat? Why do eunuchs tend to be overweight? Why do some people tend to have cravings for food and want to eat much more than others? Why do some people have more energy and are more prone to want to run around and exercise and expend that energy, while others want to sit on the couch all day? Why does taking insulin cause weight gain?
There are a lot of things like this that suggest obesity is more complicated than just taking in too many calories.
I said nothing as harsh and negative as the what you tried to put in my mouth. Kindly don't do that.
I never discounted the strength of cutting carbs, I merely discount the effects that some people give it. Just cut calories, people. I find opposition for that. Thanks, internet.
I don't think that matters since not being able to stick with say a specific diet is in some part a failure of that approach.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Yeah, you are right. it isn't as simple. But Taubes and co have to have equal billing the uncertainty. It's more economics and social science rather argument than basic concrete rules.
https://www.vox.com/2015/8/20/9179217/paleo-diet-jeb-bush-weight-loss
http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(16)31338-1/fulltext
It isn't a black/white, cico/low-carb/
I lost weight on what I thought was the most lackluster which was interment fasting. I can actually use that as a more useful guideline than any diet.
Of coure it matters.
"counting calories doesn't work for long term weight loss" is not what you can take from that paper.
"lost weight by counting calorie diet for a couple of weeks will be gained back after 4-5 years time by most individuals" is what you can take away.
Also, calorie counting can be a very low energy diet as well, depending on .. well.. how much you count?
NoblesseOblige
Banned
I just count calories and have consistently lost or kept weight off. Obsessing over carbs or fat or whatever seems like an unneccesary waste of time.
You lose weight by sheer force of will?
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
It shouldn't be called low carb, it should just be the proper amount.
Whatever makes people happy I guess.
Whatever makes people happy I guess.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
Are you confused?
You lose weight by consuming fewer calories than you burn. So I count calories. Anything more than that seems unnecessary. So why would I bother counting carbs/fat.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
People, and myself included, should ask: "what is the minimum of this thing that will keep me happy on a day to day basis."
Not by what makes me happy, I should do. I struggle with that.
don't you get that this is the actual problem? Any approach based on sustained will-power will result in failure for the overwhelming majority. That doesn't mean people are weak, it means the approach is wrong(+ systemic issues).
I'm sorry but what you're saying is not backed by this paper. Both VLED and HBD can be "calorie counting".
As for VLED vs. HBD:
"the median length of treatment for the VLEDs was 22 wk and that for the HBDs was 12 wk (P < 0.001)" ... You have to factor in the length of the expsore to the approach as well.
The longer you have to do something, the more likely it is to become a habit. For an actual comparison the conditions should have to be the same for both types of diets.
Also:
"The percentage of individuals at 4 or 5 y of follow-up for VLEDs and HBDs were 55.4% and 79.7%, respectively."
So you don't even know if you only got the people who were successful in maintaining their weight or an equal portion of both or whatever.
For me, the only thing that really helped me keep my weight off was exercise. Calories in/calories out is really where the bulk of my weight loss was actually coming from, but maintaining a disciplined exercise schedule is what kept me motivated to not cheat on my diet. Every time I tried cico by itself or with inconsistent exercise I ended up failing because losing hard work in the gym is a lot more psychologically motivating than losing a few days of not indulging my snack cravings.
Which is also the reason I've slipped back into being a little overweight. Once I stopped exercising my willpower couldn't keep a bad (but delicious) diet away. Diet and exercise are inseparable concepts when it comes to my personal weight loss.
Which is also the reason I've slipped back into being a little overweight. Once I stopped exercising my willpower couldn't keep a bad (but delicious) diet away. Diet and exercise are inseparable concepts when it comes to my personal weight loss.
pillowtalk
Member
Maintained the same weight for 3+ years now after losing a bunch. I eat whatever the hell I want, just eat less of it. Simple.
ZackieChan
Member
I think that's a good point, and that a lot of this is mental. Exercise itself doesn't burn THAT many calories, so diet is where you need to concentrate. Hunger is a big issue, though, with simply trying to limit calories. If the foods you eat are mainly protein and fats, your are more satiated all day. I eat twice a day on keto, with various snacks and fat bombs throughout the day. The few hundred calories I burn from lifting are a pittance - one fat bomb. But it's been extremely easy to stay within my 2100 calories a day on keto due to feeling satiated all day. The guilt over "wasting" a workout and the good feeling of strength afterwards is a mental block to cheating, as well.
So, I'm basically doing a combo of keto and CICO, but sticking to the CICO is way easier than ever with my diet consisting of 75% fat.
The Greek Freak
Member
Yup, just track calories accurately unlike basically anyone who says it doesn't work.
The laws of thermodynamics don't lie.
Low carb works for many because carbs are often where their worst food habits reside. Not because it is some sort of magical trick.
Typical American carbs = easy to eat a ton of with lot of calories, but don't make you feel full. No wonder cutting them out makes weight loss easier.
The laws of thermodynamics don't lie.
Low carb works for many because carbs are often where their worst food habits reside. Not because it is some sort of magical trick.
Typical American carbs = easy to eat a ton of with lot of calories, but don't make you feel full. No wonder cutting them out makes weight loss easier.
JoJoShabadoo
Member
Maybe this is the place to ask this. I calculated my BMI online and supposedly on a sedentary day with no activity I burn approximately 2400-2500 calories per day. I'm 5'7 and around 145lbs.
Does that sound right? I always imagined that the number would be more around 1800-2000.
Does that sound right? I always imagined that the number would be more around 1800-2000.
Yep, that's what really keeps you going.
Same for me, really.
Used to be at 7.5% BF, then my Master's thesis + working came along, dialed back on exercise and clean eating in the process, now around 15%... But working my way back now since I started exercising again.
I actually never did CICO, just stuck to 5 meals a day with ~20-30g of protein each and adding carbs depending on the time of day. Simple + complex carbs for breakfast, almost none for second meal, complex for lunch, simple for postworkout, none for evening meal. And (close to) no fats with simple carb meals.
Resting metabolic rates are hard to determine accurately. I'd always go for the approach of calculating it from your lean body mass, never BMI.
I fall off the wagon and eat a ton of really sugary cereal every few days or so. Eating junk food doesn't keep you satisfied for long, not to mention the damage it's doing to your insides. My excuse is I have had a lot of issues surrounding food lately, but ofc this behaviour is ill-suited to any form of diet.
The rest of the time, I have found that replacing things like potatoes with broccoli/cauliflower, has helped. I try to eat more protein, to compensate for the bad days where I'm am overloading on the worst types of carbs. And, it's true: I feel better and less hungry when I eat cleanly.
Ideally, I should think that upping your protein intake in general and sticking to complex carbs would work for most people trying to maintain, or lose, weight. I think fad diets only work if you are coming at them from a healthy place to start with - mentally and physically.
The rest of the time, I have found that replacing things like potatoes with broccoli/cauliflower, has helped. I try to eat more protein, to compensate for the bad days where I'm am overloading on the worst types of carbs. And, it's true: I feel better and less hungry when I eat cleanly.
Ideally, I should think that upping your protein intake in general and sticking to complex carbs would work for most people trying to maintain, or lose, weight. I think fad diets only work if you are coming at them from a healthy place to start with - mentally and physically.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
This is exactly it. This is why low carb or keto works within the CICO method, not against it.
Within margins of errors. A keto diet will probably be more caloriess but Will be less Glycemic intensive.
I'm going to try something wild. I'm going to eat normal portions. My big problem is I'll usually have 2 or 3 helpings of things and eat until I'm bloated. So I'm still going to eat the things I do but just not as much. Was weird only eating one 4oz cheeseburger and a little pasta salad.
The Greek Freak
Member
You and snagret are 100% right.
Doing a bunch of cardio and seeing "650 calories burned" (i know the machine trackers sucks but still) makes going and eating some sugary crap with 400 calories so much harder. Like fuck I could have not done cardio, and not eaten this and be in a similar spot fuck this.
I don't intentionally eat low carb/keto but some days my carbs are in the keto range just because I make sure to eat stuff that doesn't leave me still hungry afterwards.
This is a hard habit to break especially if you are used to eating out alot, or used to be an athlete and had to eat nonstop.
"Wait a normal meal isn't two 8 oz cheeseburgers and fries and a protein shake? That was fine to eat when we had 5 a day practices years ago!"
I struggled with it so bad that I did intermittent fasting for approx 6 months. Essentially I would eat 90% of my calories in a huge ass meal when I woke up and then a protein shake after I lifted later. So I still had a huge ass plate of food, but I also knew "well no more food for today so don't think about it!".
The only reason I stopped is that it made eating and cooking with my wife basically impossible.
You don't see the irony that instead of "wasting your time" counting one thing you're counting another?
Also, you don't have to actually count carbs to do a low carb diet. You just stop eating a few things like grains and potatoes and shit. So in practice it's actually far easier than counting calories.
Yeah I just do calorie restriction, I did low carb for awhile and lost like 30lbs but I just felt depressed and out of it all the time. Calorie restriction and working out and I'm down 90lbs and feel loads better, pasta, rice and potatoes are so fucking dope. I can eat steak sure but without some starchy carbs it's just incomplete, sandwiches were also missed dearly on low carb.
I recently fell in love with zucchini noodles. Try them.
dragonelite
Member
The basics don't really change, i can tinker with macros for a bit to get some boosts.
But I like how my brain functions on a keto diet compared to a higher in carbs diet.
I agree. It's like you have to retrain your brain. I usually cook big dinners for the family so we have leftovers but I'm starting to just make smaller meals because I'm usually the only person who eats the leftovers. I hate to waste food so I try to eat stuff before throwing it out. The smart thing to do would be to just buy less.
A Fish Aficionado
I am going to make it through this year if it kills me
Portions and culutre.
1st Course
Member
It's all about calorie management.
Calorie in/Calorie out is still the golden rule to go by.
Calorie in/Calorie out is still the golden rule to go by.
BWJinxing
Member
I could never count calories on a regular, i never felt sated with portion control. Id count but i felt hunger still.
I just started the keto diet 2 weeks ago, and frankly this feels like a sustainable diet for me. I've got way more energy and its great motivation. I actually feel full after a smaller, fatty meal. I could down a box of pizza and never feel full.
I just started the keto diet 2 weeks ago, and frankly this feels like a sustainable diet for me. I've got way more energy and its great motivation. I actually feel full after a smaller, fatty meal. I could down a box of pizza and never feel full.
SlipperyFishes
Banned
I've lost 11lbs in 6 weeks by cutting out meat with one or two slips here and there.
What Kind of meat and how much of it did you eat before?
family_guy
Member
What's worked for me is the 16 hr fast combined with a morning workout. It takes some time to get the body adjusted to it. Counting calories has become less important since I've been on it.
michaelius
Banned
I'm doing
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
since I started developing anemia due to stress and workload which mostly comes down to cutting down on fat , white bread and I cut sugar almost completly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mediterranean_diet
since I started developing anemia due to stress and workload which mostly comes down to cutting down on fat , white bread and I cut sugar almost completly.
you lost 47 lbs in 8 weeks?
The Greek Freak
Member
Even after eating better for years I'm still a bit fucked.
It's not uncommon for me to ask my wife to look at my plate and tell me if I'm fucking up in terms of portion size. You could put an entire rotisserie chicken on my plate and a 2nd plate of sides and I'd just eat all of it if I'm not thinking and I'm being too lazy to measure everything by weight.
That's actually not that weird if you are obese and eating tons of sugar/salt/very little fiber leaving you bloated as fuck.
I've seen people drop 20 lbs in 2 weeks when they go from pure trash diet/no exercise to a regular diet + moderate exercise.
Keeping up that pace for 16-20 weeks+ is crazy though.
entremet
Member
Explain East Asia?
I'm not against low carb or keto. I think they're great and help many people. But it's not the only way to lose fat. And it may not be affordable for everyone. Meat is expensive.
Some low carb advocates can be aa dogmatic as religious fundamentalists lol.
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