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Trump’s lawyers seek to undercut Mueller’s Russia investigation

From:

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To:

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... in two months.

Fantastic!
 

Iolo

Member
So Trumps strategy will be to get as many SC justices appointed as possible for when his self-pardoning goes to SCOTUS. Just has to hold on until then, and hope the justices don't.
 

UberTag

Member
Amazing that this is what Trump fears the most, for reasons I don't think are related to anything Russian. He just doesn't want anything getting out about his true financial status, debts owed, etc. He wants to maintain this image of himself as all-wealthy-all-powerful, when his tax returns will say otherwise.
Oh no... his precious image... because the rest of the world doesn't already think he's a lying, charlatan, self-obsessed imbecile.
We might also know he's not as wealthy as he says he is. Aw, poor Donny.
 

bananas

Banned
I don't think the President should have the power to pardon any federal employee who has committed a crime in relation to their federal duties.

But hey, that's just me.
 

Iolo

Member
Remember when W tried to appoint his personal lawyer Harriet Miers to the Supreme Court?

Who wants to bet Republicans would block it this time?
 
Trump has asked his advisers about his power to pardon aides, family members and even himself in connection with the probe, according to one of those people. A second person said Trump’s lawyers have been discussing the president’s pardoning powers among themselves.

Trump’s legal team declined to comment on the issue. But one adviser said the president has simply expressed a curiosity in understanding the reach of his pardoning authority, as well as the limits of Mueller’s investigation

lol okay. Just satisfying his curiosity. Reminds me of that kill the poor sketch
 

UberTag

Member
A 1974 OLC memo says he cannot, but it's never been put to the test before. It also lists two ways which the president could be pardoned while keeping the office.

https://www.justice.gov/sites/default/files/olc/opinions/1974/08/31/op-olc-supp-v001-p0370_0.pdf
Under the fundamental rule that no one may be a judge in his own case, the president cannot pardon himself.

If under the Twenty-Fifth Amendment the President declared that he was temporarily unable to perform the duties of the office, the Vice President would become Acting President and as such could pardon the President. Thereafter the President could either resign or resume the duties of his office.

Although as a general matter Congress cannot enact amnesty or pardoning legislation, because to do so would interfere with the pardoning power vested expressly in the President by the Constitution, it could be argued that a congressional pardon granted to the President would not interfere with the President's pardoning power because that power does not extend to the President himself.
How hilarious would it be if Trump temporarily bowed out of the presidency under the 25th amendment so Pence could pardon him of his crimes... and then, after doing so, Pence said, "Nah, I'm not going to be doing that; go fuck yourself."

That would never happen... but it would be pretty darn amusing.
 

Zolo

Member
How hilarious would it be if Trump temporarily bowed out of the presidency under the 25th amendment so Pence could pardon him of his crimes... and then, after doing so, Pence said, "Nah, I'm not going to be doing that; go fuck yourself."

That would never happen... but it would be pretty darn amusing.

Yeah. I wonder if Pence would actually go for it. I figured he'd rather just make a deal for Trump to resign for a pardon instead.
 

shiba5

Member
Are you kidding?

The Evangelicals have already renounced everything they believed in prior to support him. They don't actually believe in Christianity. They believe in some fucked up version of American Jingoism and Trump is their new God.

Correct. At this point, maybe a live boy would make them bail, but I wouldn't be surprised if they excused that as well.
 
Trump has repeatedly refused to make his tax returns public after first claiming he could not do so because he was under audit or after promising to release them after an IRS audit was completed.

Uh, IRS have stated multiple times he can release them while being under audit.
 

foxuzamaki

Doesn't read OPs, especially not his own
A combination of the logical conclusion to his narcissism and having no clue what the job would truly consist of? I don't know if even Trump truly knows.

There are times I absolutely think the worst thing you could ever have done to the man was elect him President. He loved his life being Trump. I'm not so sure he does now.
I think he never thought he would get this far, and when he started winning it did what the logical conclusion was for a person like him, raised his ego despite in the back of his mind he knew he should have bailed out
 

Eusis

Member
Lol. His finances must be the darkest shitshow. Like even if he had never met s Russian the state charges alone are probably a house of cards.

Does any gaffer genuinely think he's innocent at this point?

I don't mean RT bots and trolls and New Jersey rock and roll legends, I mean legit #maga hats.
If he's innocent then he's embarrassingly poor by his standards. He would be stupid enough to freak out over that alone, wouldn't he?
 
Amazing that this is what Trump fears the most, for reasons I don't think are related to anything Russian. He just doesn't want anything getting out about his true financial status, debts owed, etc. He wants to maintain this image of himself as all-wealthy-all-powerful, when his tax returns will say otherwise.

From what I've read recently, Trump has been involved with Russian oligarchs specifically money laundering schemes for a long long time.
So imo there's so much more to all of this than just his financial status, I feel this is so much bigger than we think.
 

chekhonte

Member
Just an FYI

Trump can pardon his family and aides
Trump can pardon himself
Trump can execute a pardon via tweet as there is no defining procedure in the constitution for a presidential pardon
If trump is impeached and removed the next president can and will pardon all of the above probably not via tweet.
There are almost no limits to a presidential pardon for federal charges.
 

Thaedolus

Member
Just an FYI

Trump can pardon his family and aides
Trump can pardon himself
Trump can execute a pardon via tweet as there is no defining procedure in the constitution for a presidential pardon
If trump is impeached and removed the next president can and will pardon all of the above probably not via tweet.
There are almost no limits to a presidential pardon.

He can't pardon himself and most of the rest of what you say is bullshit
 
We’re close to a turning point. We’ll soon know if we’re on the best timeline or the worst depending on whether republicans grow the balls to impeach trump when he inevitably fires Mueller, pardons everybody and we learn that everything about the Russia story is true.
 
Fucker tried to pull this shit after being found out he committed treason, should be forceably removed from the White House and have all his assets frozen and confiscated.
 
He's shook. He's been bankrupt so many times and no banks other than one has loaned him anything yet he keeps building means sometime before or after the Ms. America in Moscow his entire business was turned into a money laundering scheme to get around Obama's sanctions.
 
Just an FYI

Trump can pardon his family and aides
Trump can pardon himself
Trump can execute a pardon via tweet as there is no defining procedure in the constitution for a presidential pardon
If trump is impeached and removed the next president can and will pardon all of the above probably not via tweet.
There are almost no limits to a presidential pardon for federal charges.
So Nixon was just an idiot?

He can't pardon himself.
 
My big worry here is that he starts yanking on every lever on his way out to either save himself or screw over those who showed disloyalty to him by not being treasonous shitbags.

We don't know exactly how many are in cahoots with/kompromated by Russians, or what they can do to stymie his expedition either.

We've seen what he's done to the ENTIRETY of federal law enforcement this week, and you KNOW that it'll continue, spread, and get worse.

For evangelicals, none of that will matter. the video is of the "old" Trump. Not the new, born-again King David destined to lead the City on a Hill. They'll be repressed, but they'll still mentally support their anti-Christ.

One of the odd things this decade has brought me is the realization that the realization that a more heterogeneous America wasn't just to more left-leaning and current minorities. Oh no no no no...
 

TwoDurans

"Never said I wasn't a hypocrite."
I bet Nixon wondered if he could pardon himself. Probably never said it out loud though. He's not an idiot.
 

antonz

Member
Saw it brought up online. Trump has to be careful because anyone he potentially pardons can be compelled to testify without immunity and cannot claim 5th amendment due to the pardon having adjudicated guilt.
Presidential Pardons are also not like settling out of court. Accepting a Pardon entails admitting guilt and commission of the crime being pardoned.
 
Fucker tried to pull this shit after being found out he committed treason, should be forceably removed from the White House and have all his assets frozen and confiscated.

Even if he does find a way to pardon himself, the only certainty that will come of this, is his assets will get frozen. And tbh thats where his ego is at, the Money he says he has. The presidency doesn't matter to him, but the money does 😂. Lmao hopefully Mueller finds something
 

Cowlick

Banned
From what I've read recently, Trump has been involved with Russian oligarchs specifically money laundering schemes for a long long time.
So imo there's so much more to all of this than just his financial status, I feel this is so much bigger than we think.
Oh, most certainly he's involved in all manner of shady shit. But in Trump's mind I'm not sure that's the issue that's worrying him. I think he's not of a mindset of "Oh shit, they're gonna discover (insert Russian thing here)", but rather "(insert Russian thing here) was just business. But oh shit, they're gonna discover I'm not a billionaire..."
 

UberTag

Member
I wonder when we should start looking at signs of Trump assets being quietly liquidated and the money funnelled to some place in Russia or the Cayman Islands where it can't be seized.
 
If the question of self pardon when to the SCOTUS, would his appointee, what's his name, have to recuse himself?

No, because the Senate approved him.

I predict the decision would be either 5-4 (with Kennedy/Roberts joining the liberals) or 6-3 (with Kennedy and Roberts) ruling that Trump can't pardon himself.
 
Are we about to see the President of the United States try to pardon someone via tweet

That'd be like when Michael Scott yelled I DECLARE BANKRUPTCY and it actually working
 

FStubbs

Member
Are you kidding?

The Evangelicals have already renounced everything they believed in prior to support him. They don't actually believe in Christianity. They believe in some fucked up version of American Jingoism and Trump is their new God.

White supremacy.

You know, Trump is crazy enough to have someone shoot investigators and then pardon them immediately and then dare Congress to begin impeachment proceedings.

I mean, what happens if a President were to openly have people murdered and then pardon them? Only Congress can impeach and they'd be physically afraid to do so.
 

ZOONAMI

Junior Member
No, because the Senate approved him.

I predict the decision would be either 5-4 (with Kennedy/Roberts joining the liberals) or 6-3 (with Kennedy and Roberts) ruling that Trump can't pardon himself.

Scotus aren't fucking idiots. It also wouldnt just immediately go to Scotus. Lower fed courts would definitely say fuck no he can't pardon himself.

He'll still be impeached regardless, pardon can't touch that. He has to be impeached before he can be indicted anyway as a sitting president.

Pardon means someone else, not yourself, inherently. Scotus would never back it. If trump is already impeached, which he would be if it ever even got to this point, Scotus would have 0 reason to allow him to pardon himself. They would happily tell him to go fuck himself and get the fuck out of DC.
 

FStubbs

Member
No, because the Senate approved him.

I predict the decision would be either 5-4 (with Kennedy/Roberts joining the liberals) or 6-3 (with Kennedy and Roberts) ruling that Trump can't pardon himself.

Honestly I'm not even sure Thomas would go for that. Alito and Gorsuch would be on board with it though.
 
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