Support NeoGAF

Micael · May 11, 2017

Given that nothing has changed since the somewhat same topic came up a few days ago, I will just be a total douche bag and quote myself.

Micael said:
Saying you don't like indie games is like saying you like music but you only like music that has a big budget behind it or is being made by a big label.

Because that is all that indie games are, a classification of budget/studio independence (take your pick), how can anyone say that these games are all the same and not be ignorant or a straight up troll?

Pretty sure if people came out in droves and started saying stupid stuff like these games below are the same, they would be laughed out of the thread if not straight up banned for obvious troll attempts.

Inferno313 · May 11, 2017

People think they've got hot takes with the whole: "I play them, but most are bad."

Bad is the default. Most of anything is bad. Most movies are bad. Most music is bad. Most AAA games are bad. Great art is always the minority. That said, there's a ton of really really strong independent stuff out there. Enough that you don't need to ever engage with the bad stuff.

SafeinSound · May 11, 2017

When I think of "indie" games anymore, I usually just assume it is a low-we budget title. Hell, some of my favorite games this gen have been low budget games.

orava · May 11, 2017

Not refusing but just losing interest. There's too many games and most of them are just bad or clones of clones.

Calm Mind · May 11, 2017

They are elitist scum.

Duxxy3 · May 11, 2017

I don't refuse to play them, but I'll admit that I have an aversion to them. I think it's because I don't like going backwards. I see all of these 2d games, mostly the pixel art ones, and I see it as a step backwards to the 16bit era.

Well I was there for that era. I played a lot of those games and loved them. But graphics and gaming have long moved passed that era. So even though I own quite a few of these games I never actually play them. At least not on my PC or consoles. On my 3DS, sure. It's a better fit there. But playing pixel art games on a fairly nice gaming PC, on a 1080p monitor, that just feels like a complete waste to me.

azyless · May 11, 2017

I think there's a lot of uneducated guesses about what an "indie game" is (see post above about "2d pixel art").
As people previously mentioned, indie games span an infintity of genres, visual styles, etc. so it makes no sense to me to hear that someone would just refuse to play any indie game. Shame for them I guess.

Jawmuncher · May 11, 2017

I don't refuse to play indie games. I'm just way more picky with them due to the sheer magnitude of them on PC.

hydrophilic attack · May 11, 2017

Indies 👏 are 👏 not 👏 a genre 👏

More_Badass · May 11, 2017

If you want to get technical, The Witcher 3 is an indie game, as it was published and developed by CD Projekt

Duxxy3 said:
Well I was there for that era. I played a lot of those games and loved them. But graphics and gaming have long moved passed that era. So even though I own quite a few of these games I never actually play them. At least not on my PC or consoles. On my 3DS, sure. It's a better fit there. But playing pixel art games on a fairly nice gaming PC, on a 1080p monitor, that just feels like a complete waste to me.

That doesn't make much sense. That's like saying I won't watch a film captured on 35mm or read a book printed on paper, or won't look at art made with oil paints. A good game is a good game

Nowadays, pixel art is just an aesthetic in a developer's toolkit, no different than a dev deciding to do low poly, hand-drawn, cel-shaded, etc. or a director wanting to show their movie in black-and-white (i.e. Logan, Mad Max), and in general doing things that could never be done on actual 8/16bit. To see it a simply a step back is to assume that the devs aren't doing anything new with or advancing the aesthetic

loli pantsu · May 11, 2017

I feel that a lot of gamers who got started with a 360 or PS3 automatically associate big deal AAA productions with what they perceive as 'real' games. Anything else without the marketing muscle of EA, Activision, Microsoft or Sony is automatically considered Indie and 'inferior' to what they think is 'the real deal'.

I find it really sad though. Indie game developers are mostly free of the constraints of publisher demands and are able to exercise their creativity to truly create the games they want to make.

Endless Legend, Dungeon of the Endless, Botanicula and Deponia are the few games I always recommend to people who are newcomers to PC gaming just to show them that not every game out there is an FPS.

LordRaptor · May 11, 2017

gtj1092 said:
I don't get it. If someone doesn't like indie games that's there choice. It's probably not that they don't like indie but instead they just like something else. It's funny though no one gets upset when people shit on AAA games. That's not a genre either.

AAA is, what, 4 genres? 5? with minor sub-modifiers like "Open World"
Its a much narrower generalisation.

The Omega Man · May 11, 2017

What game is that top left? it looks right up my alley

NinjamicWZ · May 11, 2017

Basically.

catilio · May 11, 2017

Because everyone is entitled to do whatever the hell they want during their time.

Glass Shark · May 11, 2017

paragonpro · May 11, 2017

gtj1092 said:
I don't get it. If someone doesn't like indie games that's there choice. It's probably not that they don't like indie but instead they just like something else. It's funny though no one gets upset when people shit on AAA games. That's not a genre either.

There is more of a human side that is made publicly aware when it comes to indies though, people may see you dissing someones relatavely modest game as an insult to that person or small group of devs with a low budget, therefore its more personal, when your hurling insults at a tripple a product its hitting the corporation usually and not the people, plus they typically had far more
Money to make their game than that small indie team. People wanna see the underdog win.

More_Badass · May 11, 2017

loli pantsu said:
I feel that a lot of gamers who got started with a 360 or PS3 automatically associate big deal AAA productions with what they perceive as 'real' games. Anything else without the marketing muscle of EA, Activision, Microsoft or Sony is automatically considered Indie and 'inferior' to what they think is 'the real deal'.

I find it really sad though. Indie game developers are mostly free of the constraints of publisher demands and are able to exercise their creativity to truly create the games they want to make.

Endless Legend, Dungeon of the Endless, Botanicula and Deponia are the few games I always recommend to people who are newcomers to PC gaming just to show them that not every game out there is an FPS.

I was actually talking with a cousin about indie games a few days ago. I write about and cover indie games, but she assumed all games were stuff like GTA, Call of Duty, Madden, etc., (she's 50) so when I mentioned the premise of games like That Dragon Cancer, Firewatch, The Witness, she was quite surprised and was curious how people could make games that play like that or be enjoyable

Duxxy3 · May 11, 2017

More_Badass said:
If you want to get technical, The Witcher 3 is an indie game, as it was published and developed by CD Projekt

That doesn't make much sense. That's like saying I won't watch a film captured on 35mm or read a book printed on paper, or won't look at art made with oil paints. A good game is a good game

Nowadays, pixel art is just an aesthetic in a developer's toolkit, no different than a dev deciding to do low poly, hand-drawn, cel-shaded, etc. or a director wanting to show their movie in black-and-white (i.e. Logan, Mad Max), and in general doing things that could never be done on actual 8/16bit. To see it a simply a step back is to assume that the devs aren't doing anything new with or advancing the aesthetic

35mm still looks fantastic today. Digital hasn't replaced printed paper or paintings. At least not in terms of quality. Convenience maybe. I don't see either of those as "going backwards".

Comparing indie games to more mainstream titles isn't the same as comparing analog to digital. At least not in my eyes.

HellforLeather · May 11, 2017

I do, its just that most of them are shit.

More_Badass · May 11, 2017

Duxxy3 said:
35mm still looks fantastic today. Digital hasn't replaced printed paper or paintings. At least not in terms of quality. Convenience maybe. I don't see either of those as "going backwards".

Comparing indie games to more mainstream titles isn't the same as comparing analog to digital. At least not in my eyes.

It's the same idea. Just because it's an older technique doesn't make it inferior. Much like anything, it depends on how it's used

And doing pixel art, doing good pixel art, is hard and pain-staking. One shouldn't assume it's a matter of convenience or the easy option

NoblesseOblige · May 11, 2017

I don't believe there's a single person who outright "refuses" to play 'Indie-games'. So the title is a silly premise. Even if they straight up said they refuse, then they are more than likely poor with words and simply mean they haven't yet encountered an indie game that they felt deserved their time/money. Or even more likely they don't realize what is or isn't an indie game. And those people could very well be those who jump from one AAA action/fps/whatever title to the next either looking for something big budget or with a large audience. Basically the Michael Bay fans of the video game world. Which is a perfectly valid option for a person to be.

Bolivar687 · May 11, 2017

It's 2017 and the novelty has worn off. There was a time when I was really interested in that sector, and it was always fun looking forward to that next Hotline Miami or Rogue Legacy. But I havent found one that captured me like that for years now. I remember asking GAF about what's new in the scene a few months ago and the best someone could come up with for me was Crypt of the Necrodancer.

I suppose a lot of the PC strategy games i play could be considered indie but the cohesiveness of the category begins to fray at that point.

PhantomThief · May 11, 2017

EGM1966 said:
Some people just have different tastes which is fine nobody should feel guilty about that (well I can think of some taste exceptions but let's not go there...)

Some people deliberately limit themselves based on bias they have which is a shame as it really does limit their chances to enjoy some great.

Basically this.

Also a lot of people don't know what an indie game even means. They think all indie games are 2d platformers, and will even go so far as to call these type of games a scam.

lethial · May 11, 2017

Does it really matter what people play?

More_Badass · May 11, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It's 2017 and the novelty has worn off. There was a time when I was really interested in that sector, and it was always fun looking forward to that next Hotline Miami or Rogue Legacy. But I havent found one that captured me like that for years now. I remember asking GAF about what's new in the scene a few months ago and the best someone could come up with for me was Crypt of the Necrodancer.

I suppose a lot of the PC strategy games i play could be considered indie but the cohesiveness of the category begins to fray at that point.

I could give you a better answer than that. What have you played since then, and what do you like? (Crypt of the Necrodancer is really good though)

brinstar · May 11, 2017

NinjamicWZ said:
Basically.

PhantomThief · May 11, 2017

NinjamicWZ said:
Basically.

Jesus this made me almost spit out my fine wine.

highrider · May 11, 2017

The ones I've played haven't been my thing, as they were more arcade experience type stuff, which isn't something I find interesting. Kind of like puzzle games, just not my thing. That said, a lot have cool art.

Kssio_Aug · May 11, 2017

I believe that most that don't like indie games have just not played some of the really great ones.

Many players may only know indie games based on the free prizes of PS+ and GwG and, unfortunately, besides constantly appearing something really great there, they are usually the most simple ones.

I dare people to try all of these, and still say they don't like indie games at all:

- Limbo / Inside
- Braid
- Mark of the Ninja
- Spelunky
- Cave Story
- Bastion / Transistor
- Stardew Valley
- Starbound
- Terraria
- Journey / Abzu
- Hyper Light Drifter
- Axiom Verge
- Guacamelee
- Ori and the Blind Forest
- Rust
- Rocket League

I confess some of these I haven't played myself, but I added them cause they're in my wishlist and add to the variety. And there are many, many, many others!

Indie games are usually low budget games, reason why they hardly feature high technical graphics. But they are also, most certainly, the most innovative ones and, constantly, features fantastic artistic direction. There are many of them with very simple mechanics and short lenght, but there are many out there with really good gameplay and good duration.

Thing is that, in the indie scene we do not look only at the most popular ones as we do with AAA games. Before Ubisoft release the game we already expect Far Cry and Assassin's Creed. Before Naughty Dog or Santa Monica announces it we already can't wait to play Uncharted or God of War. People are always excited to know what Blizzard will announce next; how the next Halo gonna be; what's EA planning to Battlefield; etc.

With indie games though... they're thrown out there in the wild and - except for some that get some special deal (such as Ori and the Blind Forest) - players will only know about them after some positive reviews, or during a sale event, or from a recommendation in a thread, or just when downloading them in GwG and PS+. They're usually not in the spotlight.

If you're getting tired of repetitive formulas, of competitive shooters, and think most AAA games out there are offering nothing special for your experience, you need to give the indie scene a deeper look and a new chance. There are so many good games hidden there...

Gravy Boat · May 11, 2017

This is a fight I gave up a long time ago. It's also the main reason I mostly stay away from the monthly PS+ thread. The amount of 'oh god more indies give us some variety' nonsense that goes on in there is infuriating to read.

Now I just enjoy my indies and my AAA and everything in between and enjoy the fact that people refusing to play something because it's indie are missing out on some of the best gaming experiences available.

TheVoidDragon · May 11, 2017

Bolivar687 said:
It's 2017 and the novelty has worn off. There was a time when I was really interested in that sector, and it was always fun looking forward to that next Hotline Miami or Rogue Legacy. But I havent found one that captured me like that for years now. I remember asking GAF about what's new in the scene a few months ago and the best someone could come up with for me was Crypt of the Necrodancer.

I suppose a lot of the PC strategy games i play could be considered indie but the cohesiveness of the category begins to fray at that point.

You can't really say "I've had enough of that style of game" and then refer to the more typical games like Don't Starve, Fez, Hotline Miami, Rogue Legacy etc when there are just so many games that aren't anything like those which count as Indie. Indie games are basically any game that isn't associated with a big budget publisher, there is no particular style or type of gameplay. The only real difference is to do with the publisher.

Unless i've missed something, Star Citizen counts as an Indie game. It has no publisher tied to it, it's entirely crowdfunded and it's being developed by a team who are basically doing what they want.

Demicore · May 11, 2017

There are people who refuse to play indie games? They're missing out!

SirNinja · May 11, 2017

Most people who say they don't play indies actually do; they just aren't aware that ___________ is an indie game.

Filling in that blank gets easier every year. Indies are becoming more ubiquitous, and many of them rival or even surpass the so-called "AAA" games in looks and gameplay.

Trace · May 11, 2017

TheVoidDragon said:
You can't really say "I've had enough of that style of game" and then refer to the more typical games like Don't Starve, Fez, Hotline Miami, Rogue Legacy etc when there are just so many games that aren't anything like those which count as Indie. Indie games are basically any game that isn't associated with a big budget publisher, there is no particular style or type of gameplay. The only real difference is to do with the publisher.

Unless i've missed something, Star Citizen counts as an Indie game. It has no publisher tied to it, it's entirely crowdfunded and it's being developed by a team who are basically doing what they want.

It really depends on how you define AAA, if you refer to AAA by budgets then Star Citizen is definitely a AAA game.

TheVoidDragon · May 11, 2017

Trace said:
It really depends on how you define AAA, if you refer to AAA by budgets then Star Citizen is definitely a AAA game.

Are the two terms mutually exclusive? AAA is to do with the budget and quality of the game, indie is to do with the lack of a publisher, so it can be both?

It's just most AAA games are usually non-indie because they tend to need a publisher to get a budget to reach the level of AAA in the first place.

Wolf Dawgz · May 11, 2017

Indie games tend to be a very niche experience. Most of the people woould probably just ignore them, but it's been a marketing point by the big 3 to make their console(AAA) libraries look bigger to the average consumer.

An equivalent example would be big, world class cities vs small towns. They are both nice, but if your tour guide stopped bringing you to places like NYC, or Tokyo, and instead took you to a flyover state, most would be annoyed.

Bergerac · May 11, 2017

It's not that I refuse, I own a few but not many. It's largely down to genre.

When there are more immersive sims, 3rd or 1st person survival horrors with combat, stealth games and FPS/TPS, I'll play more of them. I'm not massively into 2D sidescrolling.

There also seems to be a lot of messy pixel art amongst them and I can't stand the aesthetic. They make the games look worse than those they emulate, from two to three decades ago.

RadMcCool · May 11, 2017

Indie game doesn't really mean anything any more. When you get games like Grow Home being made within a AAA studio, or a mind like Kojima's working on whatever the hell he wants. Rocket League is the most typically indie but its got a massive following and people taking it super serious as a competitive game.

What I'd like to know however is how many people browse and actually download/play something on itch.io (for example) for games they've never read about on here or some gaming blog. Does anyone that isnt a game developer play jam games, like the plethora of cool games on Ludum Dare?

Kureransu · May 11, 2017

Honestly, I think it's just ignorance. There are games that just don't appeal to people, and that's fine. But i think a lot of people just don't know what exactly defines an "indie" title and probably played and enjoyed quite a few of them. They try to label "indie" as a genre, when it is in fact, not a genre at all, just more of a means of distribution.

This reminds me of the "Console owners, why don't you game on PC" thread where a lot of people were saying "it doesn't have games that interest me'. Half of the people doni't realize that franchises like Call of duty, Diablo, The Elder Scrolls, Fallout, Batterfield, Doom, Ghost Recon, Rainbow Six, Quake, Unreal, And Heck Grand theft Auto was made for DOS and ported to ps1 and Windows.

It's just ignorance. I don't people people refuse to play indie games, they may be against playing games in a retro style, but a good game is a good game nonetheless and i don't think any "hardcore" gamer would willingly skip over a great title because it was self published.

Fishook · May 11, 2017

I am not a fan of Retro looking games (Thimbleweed Park was a exception), but I quite happy to support Kickstarter and Indie games as long as they look reasonably modern,

BobbyRobby · May 11, 2017

Shovel Knight was pretty great.

Though a lot of other Indies that come out of America have burned me. Its hard for me to trust reviews or word of mouth.

Things that bother me are that they try too hard to be artistic or they often have a quirky, nerdy sense of humor that I don't like.

I prefer the small scale Japanese developed stuff.

CheesecakeRecipe · May 11, 2017

catilio said:
Because everyone is entitled to do whatever the hell they want during their time.

The problem with this is when it perpetuates false information and allows that to continue to snowball, pushing others away from them before they can even really dig in to the countless indie games which are absolutely worth their time.

I've lost count of how many times I've written very passionate reviews or impressions for indies, and seen similar outpouring of love from other players, only for one person to post about how it's bad. Following that? Posts thanking the one negative person for 'warning' them. Opinions are far too easily swayed by the negative, and that is why the 'indie stigma' needs to be stomped out at every available opportunity. It's not even remotely close to an acceptable viewpoint.

javac · May 11, 2017

I have a really limited amount of time and money dedicated to buying and playing video games, and although I'd never say that these games are not worth whatever they're asking for, people out there can attest to the vast amount of time that they've spent on playing games like Stardew and Rocket League but I guess for me it eats into the money and time that I could be spending on the few big games that I am looking forward to and I feel that my thirst for video games is more than quenched with the 1 or so games Nintendo releases every few months.

For the last two months I've been playing nothing but BOTW and before that I hadn't played anything for the entirety of 2016 outside of the smattering of Splatoon matches and to be honest I don't find myself looking for additional experiences bite sized, free, mobile or otherwise. It's not that I refuse but rather none have gained my attention enough to purchase or play them, not even the smaller Nintendo games like Snipperclips.

TylerDurden4321 · May 11, 2017

More_Badass said:

When is this coming out?? It's from The Last Night, right?

Gravy Boat · May 11, 2017

Is 'immersive sim' a new term? I swear I'd never heard it before this week and it seems like it's everywhere now.

Linkark07 · May 11, 2017

A stupid friend of mine says he doesn't want to play them because they look awful, like SNES games. For some reason, he believes indie = bad graphics.

At first I tried to tell him that not all indie games had awful or old graphics, and even if they try to recreate those old graphics, gameplay is what matters most. But he still, stubbornly, refuses to play them. By now, I have given up. If he wants to keep that closed mind, then it is his loss.

Asd202 · May 11, 2017

Nicky Ali said:
People do realise that "indie-game" isn't a genre, right...?

Like, Death Stranding is technically an indie game. That looks far from cheap.

EDIT: Yeah okay, please forget that Death Stranding bit, but the point remains. You can't lump these games into one big group, that's just a bit silly.

Death Stranding an Indie game? LMAO you made my evening.

Mihos · May 11, 2017

People barely have time to play the sure thing awesome games.... realistically, what is even the point of looking for more beyond that.

I have the time, so I play everything. But honestly, there is so much out there, no one in that category has to go 'looking' for something to play the one day a week they get. They are beat over the head with it by the larger publishers.... and those games have the player counts to keep them interesting.

Kssio_Aug · May 11, 2017

Inferno313 said:
People think they've got hot takes with the whole: "I play them, but most are bad."

Bad is the default. Most of anything is bad. Most movies are bad. Most music is bad. Most AAA games are bad. Great art is always the minority. That said, there's a ton of really really strong independent stuff out there. Enough that you don't need to ever engage with the bad stuff.

Exactly!

People say "most indie games are shit" but they ignore the fact that most games, generally speaking, are shit. The difference is that there are a bunch of popular franchises they already know or companies they already know, so finding what they like is easier... but that doesn't mean that there aren't as much (if not more) good indie games too if they do some research.

catilio said:
Because everyone is entitled to do whatever the hell they want during their time.

You're totally right. But many people are looking at indie games in a wrong way. If you choose to remain ignorant, that's up to you, but if you wish to discover new games, beyond what the AAA popular developers offers, you should at least give indie games a better look.

There's nothing wrong if you simply don't want to look for anything else, cause you're satisfied with your favorite franchises. But saying you "don't like indie games" at all, sounds like lack of proper knowledge of what the indie scene actually offers.

Support NeoGAF

People who refuse to play Indie-Games - Why?

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Banned

Reeeeeeee

Member

Member

Banned

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Member

Member

Neo Member

Member

Member

Member

Stormy Grey

Member

Member

Member

Banned

Member

Gold Member

Member

Similar threads