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Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:20 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Especially the arsonist seems to be a danger to me in that regard.

Is he a danger to you due to you being scum, and you dying by an arsonist being a bigger threat to your alignment?
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:21 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Damn, that banner is beatiful.

No lynch could be a viable option, but there is the flipside that no lynch would also give basically a free night for both scum and the arsonist to work on.

It does look nice.

Anyway, they always kind of have a free night, but on this night we have a doctor and the others and we ALL know it. What we do get if we flip is nothing. They get to do what they do anyway. We've got four anti-town out of 17 - not great odds for us. If someone really looks scummy, I'm happy to vote and take the shot. I think we should also definitely discuss other things - fake edit that Trigger has a point, we need stances - but day one often gives us so little and the odds of it being productive are so low. This is a totally different game and I think we should look at different modes. Multiple different modes, so what else can we come up with?
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:23 PM)
Since there are no flips, scum will never know how many town PR are left, unless they are killed after they killed. So the setup is not only a nerf for town.
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:24 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Since there are no flips, scum will never know how many town PR are left, unless they are killed after they killed. So the setup is not only a nerf for town.

I mean "unless they are killed after they have claimed". Brains froze there, apparently.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:25 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

That's true, and it's why I'm asking and not just voting - I think there's pros and cons - but what we will get tomorrow, hopefully, is the hypnotist, the cop, and hell, even the arsonist's result, which seems to mitigate it a bit. But I can't decide if it's worth it.

That's also assuming that the Cop claims and the Hypnotist uses up their shot. I'd still prefer to give a lynch a shot today since we'll get that anti-town information tomorrow instead of waiting of pushing off information, and voting records, to a Day Phase where we won't get clear answer for a while.

Originally Posted by Burbeting

As a note, the 100% open setup is going to change the meta of the game more. Don't expect scum or neutral to do fake PR claims, unless they are sure they are going to be lynched, and just try to fish for a town counterclaim in a suicide move.

I'm not sure how the flips not being directly revealed is going to change the game. There will be lot more uncertainty, especially if arsonist ignites, and kills multiple town and one scum, so that there is no certain information about who of the dead is which alignment. Same if town lynches 1 scum/arso and 1 town in space of 2 days, and then there is no certain information which one of the two was scum.

tbh the second part of your post is the bit that worries me the most about this game. I rely off of flips and votes a lot and since we won't ever get clear answers I'm really worried about that moving forward. :x
Trigger
Member
(09-05-2017, 09:26 PM)
Trigger's Avatar

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

This is a totally different game and I think we should look at different modes. Multiple different modes, so what else can we come up with?

Politely ask scum to raise their hands?
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Is he a danger to you due to you being scum, and you dying by an arsonist being a bigger threat to your alignment?

Not "a danger to me". I meant arsonist gets more dangerous in that scenario is my impression.
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-05-2017, 09:27 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar
Yes, we need to lynch. Odds of hitting are low, but it will give our specials one less target. I think the risk of hitting of hitting scum early, and stopping abilities, is worth it.

4 - 4 chance. I say we take it.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Trigger

Politely ask scum to raise their hands?

'will the real scum please stand up'
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:27 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

That's also assuming that the Cop claims and the Hypnotist uses up their shot. I'd still prefer to give a lynch a shot today since we'll get that anti-town information tomorrow instead of waiting of pushing off information, and voting records, to a Day Phase where we won't get clear answer for a while.

tbh the second part of your post is the bit that worries me the most about this game. I rely off of flips and votes a lot and since we won't ever get clear answers I'm really worried about that moving forward. :x

Oh, I assume the cop won't claim but if they happen to hit scum, may seed it a little. The hypnotist, though, that's fucking cool. May they live forever.

Re: second point: I agree with you. I'm such a data house and this will require a total recalibration of my thinking.

I'll say this: ain't no damn town hookers. -.-
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:31 PM)
Big Hat Logan seems like a good asset for town, due to how the role is worded in the OP. " The player will be compelled to clearly announce their alignment at least 24 hours before the end of the following day phase." This sounds like that the Logan can do a public cop check without needing to claim by themselves, which would still leave their identity a secret for the scum/arsonist, while still helping town.
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-05-2017, 09:34 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar
Does Godfather counter Hypnotize too?
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:35 PM)

Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

Does Godfather counter Hypnotize too?

I would assume so.
squidyj
Member
(09-05-2017, 09:36 PM)
squidyj's Avatar

Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

Does Godfather counter Hypnotize too?

No. Yuria can hide herself from prying eyes but even she succumbs to the biggest hat in all of Lordran.
That said, the player is forced to announce alignment, not role.
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:37 PM)
Oh. That' s even better then.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:37 PM)

Originally Posted by squidyj

No. Yuria can hide herself from prying eyes but even she succumbs to the biggest hat in all of Lordran.
That said, the player is forced to announce alignment, not role.

this is the best game
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:44 PM)
Oh right, verelios is in this game.

VOTE: verelios

Can't be a game without me voting you! Come out, darling.
nin1000
Banned
(09-05-2017, 09:54 PM)
hi i am in this game
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-05-2017, 10:20 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar
Hypnotist is one shot, right?
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:21 PM)

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Hypnotist is one shot, right?

"One time night action", yup.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:35 PM)

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Hypnotist is one shot, right?

Oh, wow, I missed that. I mean it would have been wildly overpowered I guess so that makes sense.
rac
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:38 PM)
save that power for a middle of the game rb claim
rac
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:41 PM)
yes i understand there is no rb
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:46 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

Oh, I assume the cop won't claim but if they happen to hit scum, may seed it a little. The hypnotist, though, that's fucking cool. May they live forever.

Re: second point: I agree with you. I'm such a data house and this will require a total recalibration of my thinking.

I'll say this: ain't no damn town hookers. -.-

that's the secret role squidy didn't tell you about. :p

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

Oh, wow, I missed that. I mean it would have been wildly overpowered I guess so that makes sense.

wait, what did you think I was saying above then?
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks


wait, what did you think I was saying above then?

my brain just straight up ignored it because I had already decided that hypnotist would save the day, I guess. \_(ツ)_/

(I have no good answer beyond "whoops, am dumb, missed stuff, lol day one")
nin1000
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:54 PM)
hello ?
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:55 PM)
Hi nin.
nin1000
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:56 PM)
i think i am ready
squidyj
Member
(09-05-2017, 10:58 PM)
squidyj's Avatar
Talking about the Hypnotist I looked back over the role pm and I realized I forgot to add some information.

If you've been hypnotized and the day ends before your deadline you have 24 hours during the next day phase to state your alignment.

A hypnotized post will not have any highlighting or mod confirmation.

My apologies for any confusion.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 10:59 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

my brain just straight up ignored it because I had already decided that hypnotist would save the day, I guess. \_(ツ)_/

(I have no good answer beyond "whoops, am dumb, missed stuff, lol day one")

if I'm allowed to pull a Ty4on for a second, I slightly town read this tbh

Originally Posted by nin1000

i think i am ready

is the world ready for another nin variant?
nin1000
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:07 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

if I'm allowed to pull a Ty4on for a second, I slightly town read this tbh



is the world ready for another nin variant?

activating..pain mode......
:
:
:
:
......................................ok.............

PAIN MODE!


ACTIVE
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:13 PM)

Originally Posted by squidyj

Talking about the Hypnotist I looked back over the role pm and I realized I forgot to add some information.

If you've been hypnotized and the day ends before your deadline you have 24 hours during the next day phase to state your alignment.

A hypnotized post will not have any highlighting or mod confirmation.

My apologies for any confusion.

So what this means is that the role is only really powerful if it hits scum, since it forces the hypnotised to admit being scum. If it hits town, it's lot less weak, unless we all do some sort of deal that nobody is allowed to state "I'm town", unless they are hit by the hypnosis.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:14 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

activating..pain mode......

Punished Nin 3.6
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:18 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

So what this means is that the role is only really powerful if it hits scum, since it forces the hypnotised to admit being scum. If it hits town, it's lot less weak, unless we all do some sort of deal that nobody is allowed to state "I'm town", unless they are hit by the hypnosis.

I mean, I'd assume the targeted individual probably has to say something specific like 'I am Town/Scum/Neutral' clearly in order for it to count. I'd imagine not complying with those rules would be punishable via Mod action at the very least. :x

Was kinda hoping we'd at least get a confirmed Townie even if they hit incorrectly but seeing as we don't even get Mod confirmation that hope is now out the window.
Burbeting
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:20 PM)
Only way to get someone town confirmed is to make a joint decision of nobody ever claiming to be town explicitly, but that seems pretty hard to do...
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:25 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Only way to get someone town confirmed is to make a joint decision of nobody ever claiming to be town explicitly, but that seems pretty hard to do...

We could make a rule that the person in question explicitly has to say that they were hit by the hypnotist, no? If two people do that then, one will have to be lying.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

We could make a rule that the person in question explicitly has to say that they were hit by the hypnotist, no? If two people do that then, one will have to be lying.

No matter what strictures we put on it, it can be fake claimed. Then the hypnotist has to claim to counter.

I'm backing off from my no lynch question because this shit is complicated, y'all.
Verelios
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:48 PM)
Verelios's Avatar

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Oh right, verelios is in this game.

VOTE: verelios

Can't be a game without me voting you! Come out, darling.

Thanks Bear, you're still the worst.

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

We could make a rule that the person in question explicitly has to say that they were hit by the hypnotist, no? If two people do that then, one will have to be lying.

I don't think restricting town from claiming 'I'm town!' or some variation of 'You're making a HUGE mistake because I'm town!' is a feasible option. When someone's on the lynching block they may act erratically, say whatever to prove their innocence or cave under pressure, even blurting the above out when agitated. It's going to be a clusterfuck to word police all game, that it really isn't worth it.

Anyway, best option is for Hypnotist to claim whenever they feel necessary.
CornBurrito
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:49 PM)
CornBurrito's Avatar
blah blah blah no lynch, blah blah blah lynch.

The correct answer is lynch. If we happen to luck on even putting votes on a scum member we have that valuable voting data for the next game. That's how I correctly pinned over half the scum team the last game I played. Voting records are (almost) everything.

Vote people

Vote: Christina Mackenzie
isaacnukem
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:49 PM)
isaacnukem's Avatar
I think we should absolutely lynch someone today. If they flip, we'll know their alignment for sure and we need to just keep tabs about the alignments moving forward. I think as long as we don't have any shenanigans, we'll be fine. Also, may the arsonist have an early demise.
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:51 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar
Thinking about the setup, town is severely gimped while the arsonist is fine and scum are minorly inconvenienced.

Going off monkey's idea earlier, what if we only lynch on odd days so we can be sure of our flip alignments? It strikes me as extremely important we know our flip results. We know nks are going to be town. We'll know when the arsonist eats it no matter how they die. But if we lynch a town and a scum we won't actually know which was which, which is going to fuck with everyone's reads
isaacnukem
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:55 PM)
isaacnukem's Avatar

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Thinking about the setup, town is severely gimped while the arsonist is fine and scum are minorly inconvenienced.

Going off monkey's idea earlier, what if we only lynch on odd days so we can be sure of our flip alignments? It strikes me as extremely important we know our flip results. We know nks are going to be town. We'll know when the arsonist eats it no matter how they die. But if we lynch a town and a scum we won't actually know which was which, which is going to fuck with everyone's reads

Wouldn't that mean scum and the arsonist can win faster?
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:55 PM)
Yeah, the way flips are handled is going to take some adjustment.
CornBurrito
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:56 PM)
CornBurrito's Avatar

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Thinking about the setup, town is severely gimped while the arsonist is fine and scum are minorly inconvenienced.

Going off monkey's idea earlier, what if we only lynch on odd days so we can be sure of our flip alignments? It strikes me as extremely important we know our flip results. We know nks are going to be town. We'll know when the arsonist eats it no matter how they die. But if we lynch a town and a scum we won't actually know which was which, which is going to fuck with everyone's reads

I believe this may be a good idea early on. But I don't believe we can win if we refuse to gamble at some point and lynch on an even day.
nin1000
Banned
(09-05-2017, 11:58 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

Yeah, the way flips are handled is going to take some adjustment.

but it could be fun
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-05-2017, 11:59 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar
Yes, vote.

Vote: isaacnukem
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 12:22 AM)

Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I believe this may be a good idea early on. But I don't believe we can win if we refuse to gamble at some point and lynch on an even day.

Yeah, I don't think we can make blanket statements to do anything (or not) because situations change.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-06-2017, 12:25 AM)

Originally Posted by isaacnukem

I think we should absolutely lynch someone today. If they flip, we'll know their alignment for sure and we need to just keep tabs about the alignments moving forward. I think as long as we don't have any shenanigans, we'll be fine. Also, may the arsonist have an early demise.

Just the arsonist, not scum?

#scumtells :p

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Thinking about the setup, town is severely gimped while the arsonist is fine and scum are minorly inconvenienced.

Going off monkey's idea earlier, what if we only lynch on odd days so we can be sure of our flip alignments? It strikes me as extremely important we know our flip results. We know nks are going to be town. We'll know when the arsonist eats it no matter how they die. But if we lynch a town and a scum we won't actually know which was which, which is going to fuck with everyone's reads

Arsonist can't be NKed, they can only be lynched.

Chaos Servant - Arsonist
Each night you may burrow a sacred flame into another player by sending the command BURROW: <PLAYER> or you may ignite all players that have a sacred flame in them by sending the command IGNITE.
Furthermore, through your study of pyromancy you have attained some healing magics and the ability to turn your flesh into iron.
You cannot be killed at night.

Originally Posted by nin1000

but it could be fun

no flips doesn't sound very fun, Nin :<
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 12:29 AM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

no flips doesn't sound very fun, Nin :<

Sometimes we have to take what we get
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 12:35 AM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by isaacnukem

Wouldn't that mean scum and the arsonist can win faster?

Eh, i think it's the best play for town. We always lynch because flips are useful town or scum. But with no flips, we should be careful not to confuse what information is available.

Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I believe this may be a good idea early on. But I don't believe we can win if we refuse to gamble at some point and lynch on an even day.

Sure, eventually we should have some confidence and there is always the chance of cop or hypnotist reveals. But for a start, it seems safe.

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

Arsonist can't be NKed, they can only be lynched.

Forgot about that. The no lynch gives the arsonist a lot of freedom, which is bad. Especially because the information gained doesn't help us pin them down really.

Still, vs. blind lynch streaks that can confuse us even should we hit scum... Ugh.

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