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kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:30 AM)
Here's something to consider.

The way that this game was designed, I don't think the designers had in mind people not wanting to lynch on every other day. Doesn't that defeat the point of the rule? Are we playing as intended, or are we subverting a design choice?
YesNOnoNOYes
Member
(09-06-2017, 08:39 AM)
YesNOnoNOYes's Avatar
DAY 1 CURRENT VOTE TALLY:

flatearthpandas (1)
kitsunelaine 110

CornBurrito (1)
Christina Mackenzie 134

isaacnukem (1)
Lord of Castamere 96

Verelios (1)
Burbeting 67

Christina Mackenzie (1)
CornBurrito 89

StanleyPalmtree (1)
flatearthpandas 150

Burbeting (0): Sawneeks 44 130

No active vote for Day 1: Fireblend, nin1000, Muffin1611, isaacnukem, Verelios, Trigger, oreomunsta, StanleyPalmtree, hey_monkey, Sawneeks (has previously voted), rac

Day 1 Postcount: Burbeting 11, Fireblend 1, nin1000 6, Muffin1611 6, isaacnukem 7, Verelios 6, kitsunelaine 10, Trigger 4, oreomunsta 5, flatearthpandas 7, StanleyPalmtree 2, CornBurrito 5, Christina Mackenzie 6, hey_monkey 13, Sawneeks 13, Lord of Castamere 3, rac 2


Day 1 ends:



9 votes for majority
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:09 AM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

Hmmm, true. I appreciate your optimism, Nin.

Speaking of, how are you? We didn't really get a chance to chat in LB2. :<

Yeah. Not really. I was kinda absent. Not this time though!
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:11 AM)

Originally Posted by Verelios

No adjustment, either git gud or go home.

On the topic of lynch or no lynch, I'm going to go for lynch, always. I don't want to give scum and arsonist time to plan and prepare, I don't want to give them leeway and I especially don't want town getting complacent because there's no incentive to scum hunt today. Dead air has to be scum's favorite mode of progress and I'll be damned if I let that happen.

...but I thought they could not communicate ?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:13 AM)

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

Hi everyone!

I see that we're exploring lynch versus no lynch. Since we're on two day flip cycles, would lynching one day, and no lynch the next be productive?

My concern with that approach is that it still gives scum the edge :/

Can you go into detail about that ?
What kind of edge are you referring to?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:16 AM)

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

how dare you!

And there I thought you would be coming into the party shortly before day ends.

Did you change because we won't be having our usual flips ?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 10:05 AM)

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

Here's something to consider.

The way that this game was designed, I don't think the designers had in mind people not wanting to lynch on every other day. Doesn't that defeat the point of the rule? Are we playing as intended, or are we subverting a design choice?

we are playing the game
Verelios
Member
(09-06-2017, 10:32 AM)
Verelios's Avatar

Originally Posted by nin1000

...but I thought they could not communicate ?

Good question, they can't, but since they know who their teammates are it's simple for them to juke swerve the vote. Especially when we get no flips, so we're playing blind if they're somehow colluding.
Verelios
Member
(09-06-2017, 10:38 AM)
Verelios's Avatar

Originally Posted by Christina Mackenzie

I'd normally applaud this sort of positive attitude but it completely comes across as trying too hard. Who are you aiming to impress?

Honestly? I have literally zero cares to give, no lynch just doesn't sit well with me when I can't see a big negative for not lynching today. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?
Verelios
Member
(09-06-2017, 10:39 AM)
Verelios's Avatar
Huh...damn you autocorrect. Double negative, meant I don't see a negative to lynching today.
kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:03 AM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

we are playing the game

I think something to consider here, is if we give Scum more nights to kill Town than we have to lynch them, they'll quickly outpace us.
Burbeting
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:12 AM)
Hey squidyj, are the douse targets of the Arsonist informed that they are doused?
squidyj
Member
(09-06-2017, 11:17 AM)
squidyj's Avatar

Originally Posted by Burbeting

Hey squidyj, are the douse targets of the Arsonist informed that they are doused?

not even a little bit.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:26 AM)

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

I think something to consider here, is if we give Scum more nights to kill Town than we have to lynch them, they'll quickly outpace us.

Why should we do that ? I did not really understand you.
Could you go into more detail please
kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:49 AM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

Why should we do that ? I did not really understand you.
Could you go into more detail please

I'm replying to the people who think we should lynch every other night, with the reasons why I disagree.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 12:25 PM)

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

I'm replying to the people who think we should lynch every other night, with the reasons why I disagree.

i know that, i just wanted to hear more details about this statement

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

I think something to consider here, is if we give Scum more nights to kill Town than we have to lynch them, they'll quickly outpace us.

kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-06-2017, 12:54 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

i know that, i just wanted to hear more details about this statement

If I'm not mistaken, scum can kill every night, right? And it's a guaranteed townie kill when that happens. Why would we give them more chance to off us by holding off a lynch? Isn't that just playing into their hands?
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:10 PM)

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Oh.

Vote: StanleyPalmtree

Why so bloodthirsty? Lynch every day seems to me to leave town with the least amount of sure info. What's the flip side?

bloodthirsty?
...sure

the flipside is as i said in my post, presure on scum is maintained by people continuing to hunt for scum to lynch. if we all agree to no lynch scum can chill really easy.

also lets not forget lynching scum isnt only about the info, theres also the whole killing scum part, its a tad important.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:11 PM)

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

If I'm not mistaken, scum can kill every night, right? And it's a guaranteed townie kill when that happens. Why would we give them more chance to off us by holding off a lynch? Isn't that just playing into their hands?

On the one hand you are right, but i can also understand those that want to just want to lynch one person per 2 day phase. Since that will give us a certain answer about the alignment of the person that was lynched by us.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:12 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

And there I thought you would be coming into the party shortly before day ends.

Did you change because we won't be having our usual flips ?

ahh i forgot how adorable you get in this game.
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:17 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Verelios

Honestly? I have literally zero cares to give, no lynch just doesn't sit well with me when I can't see a big negative for not lynching today. Do you agree or disagree with what I said?

Wait, is anyone even talking about not lynching today? Think that's just you
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:18 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

bloodthirsty?
...sure

the flipside is as i said in my post, presure on scum is maintained by people continuing to hunt for scum to lynch. if we all agree to no lynch scum can chill really easy.

also lets not forget lynching scum isnt only about the info, theres also the whole killing scum part, its a tad important.

I'd feel less pressure as scum with town walking into situations where they don't even know if they've hit scum. Even if we get one, we get a bucket full of WIFOM when we don't even know who it was.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:19 PM)
i just now realized that you are worshipping me stan lol
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:20 PM)

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

ahh i forgot how adorable you get in this game.

hey it was just a light poke mate,
dont worry about it,
you have seen nothing yet
kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:33 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

On the one hand you are right, but i can also understand those that want to just want to lynch one person per 2 day phase. Since that will give us a certain answer about the alignment of the person that was lynched by us.

Yeah. But it would cleave the amount of day phases Mafia needs to win in half. I don't see how this benefits town at all.
CornBurrito
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:36 PM)
CornBurrito's Avatar
I actually do not believe the "no lynch on even days" plan will ever work. If even one person disagrees and votes they then have control over the lynch.
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:40 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by CornBurrito

I actually do not believe the "no lynch on even days" plan will ever work. If even one person disagrees and votes they then have control over the lynch.

No...

Originally Posted by squidyj

20. Players may use VOTE: No Lynch to end the Day Phase without a lynch ("No Lynch"). It must also be in an entirely separate line from any other text.

flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:42 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar
I'm not married to the idea or anything, I certainly haven't run the numbers yet, but come on. Real reasons.

It doesn't take scout's honor to pull off and it isn't going to hurt squidy's feelings.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:48 PM)

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

I'd feel less pressure as scum with town walking into situations where they don't even know if they've hit scum. Even if we get one, we get a bucket full of WIFOM when we don't even know who it was.

well, i guess we just have to disagree there, i mean there is only 3 scum right? i would imagine the threat of even one dying would be their biggest worry. town is confused at the best of times, and hardly ever acts predictably, having slightly less murky info wont suddenly make them ace detectives.

and its not like a town confused by a lack of info suddenly becomes completely unable to lynch scum, like, my point here is that we should be able to find scum more reliably from what they say while pressured, rather than by gimping our ability to lynch scum in a desperate attempt to deal with the lack of role flips.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 01:49 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

i just now realized that you are worshipping me stan lol

praising, not worshiping,

important distinction.

and that sure as hell aint you, pretender to the scream!
CornBurrito
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:52 PM)
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Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

No...

Right....
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:53 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

well, i guess we just have to disagree there, i mean there is only 3 scum right? i would imagine the threat of even one dying would be their biggest worry. town is confused at the best of times, and hardly ever acts predictably, having slightly less murky info wont suddenly make them ace detectives.

and its not like a town confused by a lack of info suddenly becomes completely unable to lynch scum, like, my point here is that we should be able to find scum more reliably from what they say while pressured, rather than by gimping our ability to lynch scum in a desperate attempt to deal with the lack of role flips.

Could just be me, I put a lot of stock in flips personally. But I also flub out in lylo usually. But this is reasonable at least.

Vote: CornBurrito
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 01:54 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by CornBurrito

Right....

I mean, maybe I'm not understanding you. But if the majority votes no lynch it doesn't really matter if one person wants to vote someone, they don't control shit.

What am I missing here?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:01 PM)
I am felling pretty good today.
I think it will be a good day.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:04 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

I am felling pretty good today.
I think it will be a good day.

Vote: nin1000
Burbeting
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:05 PM)
"1a. At the start of every Even Numbered Day Phase the number of dead Anti-Town (mafia and neutral) players is announced"

Unless scum somehow flips in N1, D1 is the only lynch where we can be 100% sure of the alignment in the future.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:23 PM)

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

Vote: nin1000

See, it already started.

The pain is real
PaiiiiN!!!!
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:24 PM)

Originally Posted by StanleyPalmtree

Vote: nin1000

Lol, this is where the real Dark Souls begins

Originally Posted by nin1000

Can you go into detail about that ?
What kind of edge are you referring to?

It's been covered pretty well now, but Town will be outpaced if it resorts to securing info on 1 kill versus the potential 3 kills that scum/neutral can pull off in the meanwhile
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:41 PM)

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

Here's something to consider.

The way that this game was designed, I don't think the designers had in mind people not wanting to lynch on every other day. Doesn't that defeat the point of the rule? Are we playing as intended, or are we subverting a design choice?

Players have autonomy to play, much to the chagrin of designers everywhere.

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

I think something to consider here, is if we give Scum more nights to kill Town than we have to lynch them, they'll quickly outpace us.

If we keep lunching town because we have no info and don't recalibrate, we lose even faster. We do also have a doctor, a NK attempt on the arsonist fails, etc. so there are some ways to slow down scum that are possible.

Originally Posted by squidyj

not even a little bit.

OMG

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

If I'm not mistaken, scum can kill every night, right? And it's a guaranteed townie kill when that happens. Why would we give them more chance to off us by holding off a lynch? Isn't that just playing into their hands?

See above.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 03:43 PM)
The bottom line is town must have info to function. We can get it from scum hunting, from lynches, from other reports. But the way all that works in this game may require some different strategies so we don't end up killing our dang selves off and doing scum's work for them.
Christina Mackenzie
(09-06-2017, 03:56 PM)
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I propose we hold off any discussions regarding lynching on Day 2 & Day 3 until later. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

We will get our first report tomorrow at the start on Day 2 on the number of threats left so we should treat this day like any other Day 1 in a mafia game.

CornBurrito is currently leading the vote count.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 04:12 PM)
While I agree that we should make final decisions then, I think it's worth discussing theoretical strategies as a whole with regard to this game as long as we keep an eye on people who don't do anything else, as that could be a place for scum to hide.
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-06-2017, 04:34 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

so we don't end up killing our dang selves off and doing scum's work for them.

That's like every game of Mafia :p

The trick to this game is how much uncertainty we can live with. In other mafia games, you tend to work off the previous night's flip. We can emulate that in this game, but as a trade off, scum can work twice as fast, and the lynching cycles are now twice as long, with someone being taken out halfway through
Christina Mackenzie
(09-06-2017, 04:37 PM)
Christina Mackenzie's Avatar

Originally Posted by squidyj

not even a little bit.

squidyj, if we lynch the Arsonist before he has the chance to use his Ignite ability, anyone who was doused are saved, right?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 04:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Christina Mackenzie

I propose we hold off any discussions regarding lynching on Day 2 & Day 3 until later. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

We will get our first report tomorrow at the start on Day 2 on the number of threats left so we should treat this day like any other Day 1 in a mafia game.

CornBurrito is currently leading the vote count.

Wenn all should start Shit Posting then ?
Christina Mackenzie
(09-06-2017, 04:57 PM)
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Originally Posted by nin1000

Wenn all should start Shit Posting then ?

I was hoping scum hunting. So this is what it's come to...
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 05:21 PM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar
I'm alright pushing no vote discussion to tomorrow, but it's not useless here. We don't have established meta to go off of so this is where it's easier to nudge the strategy in ways that benefit other teams.

That's essentially where my reads are coming from so far. But should establish a bit better. Arsonist is probably best off playing as town as possible. They can't be nk'd and scum aren't going to out them if they find them and even then scum has the doctor wifom that means they will need to try and nk arsonist two nights in a row to even be sure. Given that protection, i will be surprised if we see an ignite for a few days. And of course, town will never know if we've hit arsonist until the end of the game while town will know. So basically fuck us all.

But i assume, since this is gafia town and all, things will look like:

D2: NK, L, B
15 players: 11 town, 1 n, 3 naf

D3: NK, B2
14: 10 town, 1n, 3maf

D4: N, L (d3), B3
12: 8t 1n 3m

D5: N B4
11: 7t 1n 3m

D6: N LD5 B5
9: 5t 1n 3m

Basically mylo for town. With the ignite, basically guaranteed town loss. Assuming everything is perfect for scum. Odds are good the game goes past. At this state, town has lynched 3 times.

Now if we lynch every day and are gafia town

D2: NK L(d1) B1
15: 11t 1n 3m

D3: N L2 B2
13: 9t 1n 3m

D4: N L3 B3
11: 7T 1N 3M

D5: N L4 B4
9: 5T 1N 3M

Town lylo one day earlier. Town info doesn't matter because they've fucked up every lynch as usual. But again, even if we do hit scum, we have less info on who it was and are less likely to piece together anything useful. Of note, town has still only lynched 3 times to reach this state. So it isn't like we even get more opportunities to get scum.


Does this look accurate?
Christina Mackenzie
(09-06-2017, 05:26 PM)
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Originally Posted by hey_monkey

While I agree that we should make final decisions then, I think it's worth discussing theoretical strategies as a whole with regard to this game as long as we keep an eye on people who don't do anything else, as that could be a place for scum to hide.

Since you're bringing it up again, what are your ideas on dealing with Day 2 and Day 3?
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-06-2017, 05:28 PM)
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Just kidding, that's 4 lynches. So one extra lynch and game over potentially one day sooner.
Christina Mackenzie
(09-06-2017, 05:38 PM)
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This is all of course assuming that the arsonist targets are not ever NK or lynched.

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