• Register
  • TOS
  • Privacy
  • @NeoGAF
  • Like

StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-06-2017, 06:07 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

Wenn all should start Shit Posting then ?

we haven't already?
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 06:28 PM)

Originally Posted by Christina Mackenzie

Since you're bringing it up again, what are your ideas on dealing with Day 2 and Day 3?

I'm with FEP on this - it's a numbers game. But okay, we lynch d1, find out it's probably town, since after the NK, we're told that townies dropped, scum stayed the same. At that point, it's basically a standard d2 - we analyze the NK, which probably gives us nothing, and our votes on d1, which probably also doesn't give us much, but at least we have a little.

How do we then proceed? At least in the early phase - and this may change in late game - no lynch seems like a viable position if we have not-much to work with. Of course if we have some kind of lead, let's chase it. But if we're all like welp, we're flying blind, blind-lynching and hoping for the best can bite us in the ass in this game moreso than in others.

Early game phase, I'm all for the lynch-no lynch pattern until or unless viable clues come into presence.
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-06-2017, 06:30 PM)
Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-06-2017, 06:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

Prepare to possibly Die :<
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:04 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

We have way more to do in this game than in most games!
rac
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:41 PM)
lynch everyday who cares if we get it wrong

at least we'll be able to pretend we got scum
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

Talk !
It's perfectly normal to get into fights with one another since those are sincere.

Why are you unwilling to play ? At least try muffin
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:45 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

Embrace it and have fun.
No need to overthink it and not post.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:47 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

That's just wrong muffin and you know it.
You go with what you get. Posts that were made and responding to it or ask something.

Try to get into the discussion. If you don't like the discussion. Create your own
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:48 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

Talk !
It's perfectly normal to get into fights with one another since those are sincere.

Why are you unwilling to play ? At least try muffin

Originally Posted by nin1000

Embrace it and have fun.
No need to overthink it and not post.

I'm not unwilling to play! Just not sure what to talk about.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:48 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

Man, I hate D1. Nothing to go on and I'm just wondering what I should even do.

Muffin1611
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:49 PM)
I was also just in college since in the morning, so my exhaustion is not really helping me finding something constructive to discuss. ^^"
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:50 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

I'm not unwilling to play! Just not sure what to talk about.

What are your thoughts on the players that are currently not posting ? Or your thoughts about coasting players in general ?

What do you think about FEP and the way he is playing ?
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:51 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

I was also just in college since in the morning, so my exhaustion is not really helping me finding something constructive to discuss. ^^"

Take a power nap and let's go.
No need to stay constructive.
Stay active.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:52 PM)
I like how invested you are in the game FEP.

almost gives me the impression that you are at a safe spot.

😏😏😏😏😏😏
Muffin1611
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:56 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

What are your thoughts on the players that are currently not posting ? Or your thoughts about coasting players in general ?

What do you think about FEP and the way he is playing ?

I don't really think we can determine already who is coasting and who is not, the day isn't that far in yet.

About FEPs talk about possible strategies, I don't really like the idea of No Lynch. Maybe on D2 only. Seems a bit risky to me giving scum and especially the arsonist more time.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 07:59 PM)

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

I don't really think we can determine already who is coasting and who is not, the day isn't that far in yet.
..

In my eyes 70% of the players are currently coasting.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:02 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

Take a power nap and let's go.
No need to stay constructive.
Stay active.

whoa whoa whoa let's put the brakes on this one
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-06-2017, 08:04 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar
I might be down for no lynch tomorrow but logically we have to try today. As today will probably be one of the few that we know the alignment of who dies with only 2 deaths possible. Almost every night after this will end with 3 deaths, and suspect allegiance.

The problem with waiting for pr's is that the arsonist can only be lynched. A day we may have hit them, might be completely wasted. Plus if we don't lynch, what can we gain from that day in past reads? It's entirely possible that scum hit n, or doc blocks one of the kills, giving us another pure alignment day. Every day we NL feels like a day where nothing is learned. Like we're trying to meditate our way to max intelligence, but we need to punch a dragon instead.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:09 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

whoa whoa whoa let's put the brakes on this one

Why ? Not everyone is constructive.
I mean most mean good and try to be but aren't.
I give him the advice to stay active first of all, which is miles better than being inactive.
Lord of Castamere
Member
(09-06-2017, 08:11 PM)
Lord of Castamere's Avatar

Originally Posted by Muffin1611

I was also just in college since in the morning, so my exhaustion is not really helping me finding something constructive to discuss. ^^"

I feel you. I had 5 hours of sleep before my 8am math class today. Still have to finish a speech outline before Friday, print a bunch of crap, and find the energy to work out.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:11 PM)

Originally Posted by Lord of Castamere

I might be down for no lynch tomorrow but logically we have to try today. As today will probably be one of the few that we know the alignment of who dies with only 2 deaths possible. Almost every night after this will end with 3 deaths, and suspect allegiance.

The problem with waiting for pr's is that the arsonist can only be lynched. A day we may have hit them, might be completely wasted. Plus if we don't lynch, what can we gain from that day in past reads? It's entirely possible that scum hit n, or doc blocks one of the kills, giving us another pure alignment day. Every day we NL feels like a day where nothing is learned. Like we're trying to meditate our way to max intelligence, but we need to punch a dragon instead.

Yeah, with the way information is revealed and the work that's been done there, I agree - we have to lynch today.

Originally Posted by nin1000

Why ? Not everyone is constructive.
I mean most mean good and try to be but aren't.
I give him the advice to stay active first of all, which is miles better than being inactive.

True, inactivity is the lowest on the scale of usefulness, but why not go big and say yes, try to be constructive? Empty activity such as "gee, things are confusing, not sure what to do" might as well be inactivity.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:16 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

True, inactivity is the lowest on the scale of usefulness, but why not go big and say yes, try to be constructive? Empty activity such as "gee, things are confusing, not sure what to do" might as well be inactivity.

whoa whoa whoa let's put the brakes on this one....

Jokes aside, that's why I gave muffin the suggestion to just stay active for the moment and then see where the boat takes you.

He was clearly having issues where to begin and I gave him one of the lowest branches to go by.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:23 PM)

Originally Posted by Verelios

Hmmm, Fire just checked in above, so I think it's just CM and LC.

I know Fire checked in, that's why I also said 'contributed something' because he just checked in but gave no thoughts.

CM has just checked in since then though and is coming in hot.

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

Yeah, because of the schedule we do need to do today. But I like the idea of every other day thatvwas suggested. The real question is though: how are we gonna reconcile voting records without flips in later days? Patterns will exist but not with clear links.

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

Does this look accurate?

So I've been mulling over the lynch everyday vs. don't lynch everyday and I think it actually comes down to how confident we feel we can lynch Scum/Neutral. Taking FEP's math, the only difference between No Lynching every other Day Phase and lynching every Day Phase is the extension of only a single Day Phase ( Day 5 v Day 6 ). HOWEVER, I think the bigger difference between the two is the amount of lynch attempts we have.

If we go for a No Lynch every other Day Phase then we only have 3 chances to hit Scum/Neutral and given Gafia Town's track record ( and the fact we have no flips ) I'd put our odds at very unlikely that we lynch correctly every single time. Not to mention the Neutral has the chance to royally fuck us over by igniting his/her targets the Night before we get our Dead Anti-Town number and potentially kills Scum which, while GREAT for us, means we now have to guess between a group of people who was Scum and who wasn't. Did we lynch the Scum? Did the Neutral Ignite them? It turns into WIFOM hell.

Now, if we decided to go for lynching every Day Phase we'd have 5 lynch attempts before things start getting dicey. That means more shots at Scum and more shots at the Neutral. True, we don't get any concrete information from the flips anymore other than we might have guessed correctly at some point in the past 2 Day Phases but I think the point of this game is to break our reliance on Flips and for us to find others way of nailing Scum/Neutral. It's also not like we're without any information either; we have a Day Cop and a normal Cop than can get us information as well to help us narrow down the playing field.

I see pros and cons to both sides of this, honestly. While getting some sort of info on flips would help tremendously I don't trust Gafia's track record enough to narrow our flip count to just 3 flips before potentially losing the game by lynching the wrong Anti-Town, not to mention the fact that the Neutral could ignite up-to 4 people in one go if we never lynched them. This does leave our PRs a better chance at hitting Scum, the Cop specifically, since we have less of a chance to mislynch them but this also relies on them hitting correctly and they wouldn't be able to fully trust their Town clears with a Godfather in play. I also really don't like the prospect of not having information on flips but leaving a Neutral that can murder a bunch of us in one go ( and maybe hit Scum ) and leaving Scum to run around doing their thing worries me even more.

I'm starting to feel we should just take the risk and go for lynching every Day Phase.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:25 PM)

Originally Posted by nin1000

In my eyes 70% of the players are currently coasting.

What do you see as coasting behavior, Nin?
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 08:53 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks


I'm starting to feel we should just take the risk and go for lynching every Day Phase.

I appreciate the logic you lay out here, but I'm hesitant to decide either way at this juncture. I guess in the end, I think we should go forward as though it's a standard day, with No Lynch coming in as a more viable alternative than in a usual game if we need it (for some reason). Because I don't trust us either.
Trigger
Member
(09-06-2017, 08:58 PM)
Trigger's Avatar
I think we should try to lynch every day. Everyone having the ability to comfortably hide behind a no lynch vote is going to make tracking voting less useful. I always considered end-of-day votes as a useful reference point for trying to find scum. It's just not very useful to vote not to lynch someone in a game of accusation.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 09:08 PM)
But - and I mean this as a good-faith, legitimate question - how can we use those end-of-day votes in the same way as we would in any game, when we don't have any concrete results to link them to? I mean, I love data. I'm just trying to visualize how this will work. We'll find out at the end of this day phase to a point, but it'll take the next two-day cycle to really see - and by then we're halfway to a loss as town if we haven't been careful.
Trigger
Member
(09-06-2017, 10:36 PM)
Trigger's Avatar

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

But - and I mean this as a good-faith, legitimate question - how can we use those end-of-day votes in the same way as we would in any game, when we don't have any concrete results to link them to? I mean, I love data. I'm just trying to visualize how this will work. We'll find out at the end of this day phase to a point, but it'll take the next two-day cycle to really see - and by then we're halfway to a loss as town if we haven't been careful.

Who people choose to vote for could still be useful....Maybe? We have a cop that can confirm alignments later in the game, hopefully......I don't really know. Yeah, my arguments have some holes.

Admittedly, I'm just not confident that no lynch days are going to be productive. They haven't been in previous games that I played in. By deciding ahead of time to not lynch people I feel like we're giving scum room to wiggle. It's harder to scrutinize people's stances on other players if we've all agreed to not lynch as town.They can do whatever they want knowing that they won't be eliminated.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-06-2017, 10:38 PM)
But I don't think anyone is absolutely saying let's not lynch. The argument is more this game is different; we should consider other possibilities, including the possibility of a time when no lynch is more viable outside of mylo/lylo.
CornBurrito
Member
(09-06-2017, 11:15 PM)
CornBurrito's Avatar

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

I mean, maybe I'm not understanding you. But if the majority votes no lynch it doesn't really matter if one person wants to vote someone, they don't control shit.

What am I missing here?

Nothing. I forgot No Lynch counts as a vote.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:28 PM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

I appreciate the logic you lay out here, but I'm hesitant to decide either way at this juncture. I guess in the end, I think we should go forward as though it's a standard day, with No Lynch coming in as a more viable alternative than in a usual game if we need it (for some reason). Because I don't trust us either.

So how do you plan to go about the rest of this Day Phase, Monkey? Because so far we've all just kind of circled around this issue and not a whole lot else.
Sawneeks
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:36 PM)

Originally Posted by Burbeting

"1a. At the start of every Even Numbered Day Phase the number of dead Anti-Town (mafia and neutral) players is announced"

Unless scum somehow flips in N1, D1 is the only lynch where we can be 100% sure of the alignment in the future.

Burb can I get any thoughts from you that aren't mechanics related

Originally Posted by Christina Mackenzie

I propose we hold off any discussions regarding lynching on Day 2 & Day 3 until later. We'll cross that bridge when we get there.

We will get our first report tomorrow at the start on Day 2 on the number of threats left so we should treat this day like any other Day 1 in a mafia game.

CornBurrito is currently leading the vote count.

Everyone else seemed to ignore you on this so I'll ask: why did you bring this up?

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

I have no idea how Neutral will play in this game. We won't even know if we get the neutral, so the threat of dousing will last for a while after death. If I were Neutral I'd do something like, not douse anyone after the first death which would lead people to suspect the Neutral had been caught.

Originally Posted by kitsunelaine

...And that's why you should never start a train of thought post with "I have no idea how x will play".

Is that because you're the Arsonist trying to mess with our heads? o:
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:43 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

What do you see as coasting behavior, Nin?

It was a joke, since we are in the early to middle phases of D1 and I know that not everyone has checked in yet or ready started to play.
nin1000
Banned
(09-06-2017, 11:44 PM)

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

What do you see as coasting behavior, Nin?

Not posting
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-07-2017, 12:40 AM)
I'm pretty firm in believing that not lynching is detrimental to town, so I'm curious as to why some are still wanting to go down that route
isaacnukem
Member
(09-07-2017, 12:42 AM)
isaacnukem's Avatar

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

I'm pretty firm in believing that not lynching is detrimental to town, so I'm curious as to why some are still wanting to go down that route

Who're the holdovers? I think even the purveyor of lynching on certain days agrees we have to lynch today. Hey, monkey!
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-07-2017, 01:07 AM)

Originally Posted by isaacnukem

Who're the holdovers? I think even the purveyor of lynching on certain days agrees we have to lynch today. Hey, monkey!

I'm talking lynching through the whole game, not just today. Monkey is being pretty vocal about not lynching every day, but there may be others who haven't spoken much or at all about it
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-07-2017, 01:35 AM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

So I've been mulling over the lynch everyday vs. don't lynch everyday and I think it actually comes down to how confident we feel we can lynch Scum/Neutral. Taking FEP's math, the only difference between No Lynching every other Day Phase and lynching every Day Phase is the extension of only a single Day Phase ( Day 5 v Day 6 ). HOWEVER, I think the bigger difference between the two is the amount of lynch attempts we have.

...

Now, if we decided to go for lynching every Day Phase we'd have 5 lynch attempts before things start getting dicey. That means more shots at Scum and more shots at the Neutral.

Actually, we have only four lynch attempts before we get into a sticky situation. So we basically trade +1 day and better info on flips for -1 lynch. Assuming worst case scenario for town in both cases.

I'm still in favor of the no lynches for a while, but would prefer to shelve it until tomorrow at this point.

So.. who to lynch today?
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-07-2017, 01:44 AM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

I'm pretty firm in believing that not lynching is detrimental to town, so I'm curious as to why some are still wanting to go down that route

I've outlined my piece already but the short of it is it isn't really detrimental. It gives us another day in a worst case scenario game in exchange for one less lynch attempt and gives us better info on our flips if we find some scum.

Scum are not going to be chatting with each other in their spare time devising devious plots. They'll be stuck with the rest of us and that is one more day for them to slip.

I'd be more curious why you're convinced this is a bad trade off.
StanleyPalmtree
Banned
(09-07-2017, 01:46 AM)
wow, i didnt sleep through several pages of discussion for once, if this keeps up i might actually be able to play confidently for once!
Tui ad: yeah right

anyway, it seems like everyone is on board for a lynch today at least, and as fun as it is discussing the math of future lynchs (itsreallynotmathisfornerds) i think we might need to actually come up with a few lynch possibilities, no?
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-07-2017, 02:07 AM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar
I'm going to leave my vote where it is. Between me and CM's omgus corn is the vote leader.

Someone give me a better target or say something good about him.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-07-2017, 02:10 AM)

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

I'm pretty firm in believing that not lynching is detrimental to town, so I'm curious as to why some are still wanting to go down that route

Should I just... repeat everything I've said and that others have said? Like any other vote, this will have people for or against.

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

I'm talking lynching through the whole game, not just today. Monkey is being pretty vocal about not lynching every day, but there may be others who haven't spoken much or at all about it

To clarify: I'm being pretty vocal that a no lynch vote should be discussed when appropriate, unlike in a "normal" game, when it's not appropriate, really, in mid-game. I'm not saying a blanket no lynch policy or always no lynch every other day or anything else. I'm saying that with this game structure, it should be an option that doesn't immediately get someone on the chopping block just for suggesting it.

Originally Posted by isaacnukem

Who're the holdovers? I think even the purveyor of lynching on certain days agrees we have to lynch today. Hey, monkey!

indeed. hey, isaac!

Originally Posted by Sawneeks

So how do you plan to go about the rest of this Day Phase, Monkey? Because so far we've all just kind of circled around this issue and not a whole lot else.

Apparently I'm gonna explain the same thing several times, but when other topics of discussion arise, we'll talk about those. That is to say: hard to predict at this time, because not sure what's going to happen. Don't mean to give a nonanswer, but it's difficult to plan for a d1.
oreomunsta
Banned
(09-07-2017, 02:11 AM)

Originally Posted by flatearthpandas

I'd be more curious why you're convinced this is a bad trade off.

I don't really understand where you were going with your math, fep, but here's my post outlining why no lynch isn't great

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

In other mafia games, you tend to work off the previous night's flip. We can emulate that in this game, but as a trade off, scum can work twice as fast, and the lynching cycles are now twice as long, with someone being taken out halfway through

hey_monkey
Banned
(09-07-2017, 02:11 AM)
vote: kitsunelaine

for voting for someone over an action in another game. As good as any.
flatearthpandas
Member
(09-07-2017, 02:16 AM)
flatearthpandas's Avatar

Originally Posted by oreomunsta

I don't really understand where you were going with your math, fep, but here's my post outlining why no lynch isn't great

They don't work twice as fast though... not even close. That's where the breakdown was going.
Fireblend
Banned
(09-07-2017, 03:04 AM)
Hey guys sorry for my inactivity today despite promising to be more active. I'll try to share more and actually put a vote down on someone tomorrow, specially since I have a class to plan for tomorrow morning right now and can't give this thread much attention.

Do want to say that I would rather lynch everyday if anything because this is already a game in which we have little control and information and every bit of agency helps. I'm trying to stop myself from scum-reading people who want to take that agency away.

I'll actually look at the player list tomorrow and start writing down thoughts on people, as useless as that is on D1.
hey_monkey
Banned
(09-07-2017, 03:26 AM)
By the same token, I'm trying not to scumread anyone who isn't willing to discuss the idea that alternate methods of play may be more suitable for games with alternate rules, so I guess we're sort of on the same page with that.
kitsunelaine
Banned
(09-07-2017, 03:37 AM)

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

vote: kitsunelaine

for voting for someone over an action in another game. As good as any.

Hmm, interesting. Why does a joke vote in response to another joke vote make me-- Eh, you already said it doesn't. \_(ツ)_/
Verelios
Member
(09-07-2017, 05:42 AM)
Verelios's Avatar

Originally Posted by hey_monkey

By the same token, I'm trying not to scumread anyone who isn't willing to discuss the idea that alternate methods of play may be more suitable for games with alternate rules, so I guess we're sort of on the same page with that.

That plays a little to close into 'All those against me shall DIE' territory for me Monkey.

And by that, I'm asking if you're automatically scum reading people who disagree?

Thread Tools