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NieR: Automata Spoiler Thread

N

Nightengale

Member
snow in jamaica said:
How do you "conclude" Drakengard?
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5f955d9a3f817b0c4da04721488b8244.jpg
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.
 
O

Ordinaryundone

Member
snow in jamaica said:
How do you "conclude" Drakengard?
Click to expand...

For me it basically goes Drakengard 3->Drakengard 1->NieR->Drakengard 3. With the events of the first 3 endings of D3 setting up the world of D1, then D1 flowing into NieR whose story in this timeline is mostly irrelevant and mostly serves as a "what if/bad end" to this primary timeline. Then Accord finds/creates D3s final ending, concluding the story with the threat of the Watchers destroyed before they ever get going. It doesn't work perfectly but it works for me. I don't include Drakengard 2 because it's mostly bad all around and does nothing interesting with the plot but if you must then it's A path flows from D1's A path and ends pretty solidly as well.

Nier then flows off in its own to Automata which wraps things up pretty handily.

Christhor said:
He still needs to make Drakengard 4 with the little hero and Michael the cowardly dragon. It needs to be made.
Click to expand...

If we ever see Seere again it'll be too soon :mad:
 
H

Hektor

Member
KO Traveling Hobo said:
Drakengard 4: you press start game, and Yoko Taro appears and yells Drakengard! with jazz hands, then the game closes and deletes itself.
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It should go full meta.

The game you play is about some typical japanese schoolboy living a normal school life and often he sits down to play a videogame, which is Drakengard 5, so you have a videogame in a videogame, and it's like a sitcom where fucked up but funny things are happening and the boy often starts looking like this and says "Drakengard!"

05d.jpg


And eventually Yoko Taro appears and joins the schoolboy playing, so you can interact with virtual yoko while playing Drakengard 5 in Drakengard 4.
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Eumi said:
I'm pretty sure the machines didn't create YoRHa since the machines only learned about YoRHa in the stage play. Androids created YoRHa using machine cores because they didn't feel comfortable using android AI tech to create people that were all designed to be murdered.

There are definitely androids above the commander, but they aren't important. The machines had the SS classified stuff from hacking into the bunker, but originally it would have been correspondence between the machines who created YoRHa.

Of course they could all be dead by now. The pods seem to be the ones responsible for cleanup so they could be all that's left.
Click to expand...

I haven't seen a stage play (other than Romeos and Juliets). But is there really any indication that there's a significant android faction outside of YoRHa? The Resistance seems to be portrayed as significantly less capable and fairly reliant on YoRHa. YoRHa seems to believe itself to be essentially the military arm of the human side in the human/machine war. Meanwhile all the SS-classified YoRHa stuff is machine-associated and the backdoor is used to convert YoRHa models to the machine side (the virus is putting them under the control of I think the girl in red).

I'd interpreted the information I'd come across as saying that the machines were highly fragmented with multiple factions (which could explain why some machines didn't already know about YoRHa). Adam and Eve were ostensibly in control of, or at least were very important nodes in, the network, but there were obviously lots of other independent groups even when they were around. When Eve goes down it at first looks like the networked machines have gone crazy, but it's soon apparent that there's a machine intelligence involved with the backdoor and doing something with the Tower. I thought the girl in red was presented as the usual sort of manipulator who was controlling everything from behind the scenes all along.

The androids, YoRHa and otherwise, seem hopeless after the backdoor triggers. The machines appear to have won. They evidently have the ability to launch massive attacks on weird targets like Pascal's kids - this is a big reveal that it's not just crazy machines attacking at random after Eve is taken out. The backdoor is supposedly about clearing the way for "new models" but there's no indication that any androids have the wherewithal to produce these models, build a new Bunker, etc. - the twins are presented as the only androids capable of even maintaining combat models post-backdoor. And anyway this plan is really weird if it's some group of androids plotting to keep the war going to give androids something to live for - really most non-YoRHa and many YoRHa androids seem like they'd be pretty happy just trying to live normal lives. Meanwhile we know that the major machine intelligences are driven by a need to evolve and have in the past planned out ways of giving themselves something to fight against to make themselves stronger. The timing of the backdoor activation and everything going crazy afterwards makes a lot of sense if it's the girl in red wanting to hit a reset button on the political situation and start things over with more capable machines and androids. She initiates a cleansing of combat androids and non-networked machines, going to rather absurd lengths. The machine network is the only entity that would seem to be in a position to rebuild YoRHa, and it has reason to since the girl in red is unquestionably dominant going into the final stretch of the game.
 
O

Ordinaryundone

Member
Christhor said:
Is the little hero they teased in the Drakengard 3 DLC supposed to be related to Seere?
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I'm not sure if it was Seere but he's the first thing that comes to mind when I think of that story. I'm not sure it was ever meant to be a literal recounting of past events or anything, just a fairy tale until he made it real with his Pact.
 
T

theultimo

Member
I think the server capacity emails (and route c voices in tye background) foreshadowed the backdoor perfectly. Maybe its where the server needs to be purged in order to clear space is when the trigger to activate hapoens?
 
J

Jeffrey

Member
Is there any story or gameplay changes tied to difficulty? Besides autochips. I ended up doing most of 2b stuff on easy because I hate his combos lol.
 
L

LotusHD

Banned
Jeffrey said:
Is there any story or gameplay changes tied to difficulty? Besides autochips. I ended up doing most of 2b stuff on easy because I hate his combos lol.
Click to expand...

You mean 9S?

I'm pretty sure Hard mode has the machines attack more frenetically, and of course deal more damage, but that's about it.

----

Lol
 
E

Eumi

Member
Gotchaye said:
I haven't seen a stage play (other than Romeos and Juliets). But is there really any indication that there's a significant android faction outside of YoRHa? The Resistance seems to be portrayed as significantly less capable and fairly reliant on YoRHa. YoRHa seems to believe itself to be essentially the military arm of the human side in the human/machine war. Meanwhile all the SS-classified YoRHa stuff is machine-associated and the backdoor is used to convert YoRHa models to the machine side (the virus is putting them under the control of I think the girl in red).

I'd interpreted the information I'd come across as saying that the machines were highly fragmented with multiple factions (which could explain why some machines didn't already know about YoRHa). Adam and Eve were ostensibly in control of, or at least were very important nodes in, the network, but there were obviously lots of other independent groups even when they were around. When Eve goes down it at first looks like the networked machines have gone crazy, but it's soon apparent that there's a machine intelligence involved with the backdoor and doing something with the Tower. I thought the girl in red was presented as the usual sort of manipulator who was controlling everything from behind the scenes all along.

The androids, YoRHa and otherwise, seem hopeless after the backdoor triggers. The machines appear to have won. They evidently have the ability to launch massive attacks on weird targets like Pascal's kids - this is a big reveal that it's not just crazy machines attacking at random after Eve is taken out. The backdoor is supposedly about clearing the way for "new models" but there's no indication that any androids have the wherewithal to produce these models, build a new Bunker, etc. - the twins are presented as the only androids capable of even maintaining combat models post-backdoor. And anyway this plan is really weird if it's some group of androids plotting to keep the war going to give androids something to live for - really most non-YoRHa and many YoRHa androids seem like they'd be pretty happy just trying to live normal lives. Meanwhile we know that the major machine intelligences are driven by a need to evolve and have in the past planned out ways of giving themselves something to fight against to make themselves stronger. The timing of the backdoor activation and everything going crazy afterwards makes a lot of sense if it's the girl in red wanting to hit a reset button on the political situation and start things over with more capable machines and androids. She initiates a cleansing of combat androids and non-networked machines, going to rather absurd lengths. The machine network is the only entity that would seem to be in a position to rebuild YoRHa, and it has reason to since the girl in red is unquestionably dominant going into the final stretch of the game.
Click to expand...
This really doesn't make any sense to me.

Like, you're saying the machines created YoRHa and the human myth, but also learned that humanity is extinct from YoRHa, and also were the ones who decided that android AI's were not humane enough to use, but their own machine AI's were? That they created YoRHa, but also were inspired to evolve beyond the war by them?

There's just way too many contradictions for this theory to hold for me, especially since all of them are solved by just taking what the game states at face value and accepting that androids created YoRHa and left the pods to run it.
 
S

Slater

Banned
Again the machines did not creat Yorha if you don't believe what the game directly tells you then just look up the Yorha stage play where A2, Anemone and the Terminals were all introduced and look at what happened there, the terminals directly found out about what Yorha and the council actually were in it and that wouldn't make any fucking sense if they were the ones who built them
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Eumi said:
This really doesn't make any sense to me.

Like, you're saying the machines created YoRHa and the human myth, but also learned that humanity is extinct from YoRHa, and also were the ones who decided that android AI's were not humane enough to use, but their own machine AI's were? That they created YoRHa, but also were inspired to evolve beyond the war by them?

There's just way too many contradictions for this theory to hold for me, especially since all of them are solved by just taking what the game states at face value and accepting that androids created YoRHa and left the pods to run it.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure why the machines have to have learned that humanity is extinct from YoRHa. What is the source for this?

I thought the emphasis was on the machine cores being recycled. Machines and androids are fundamentally similar - this is the purpose of this fact story-wise - and it's more humane to re-use existing cores than to bring about new cores for the purpose of eventually destroying them.

The main machine intelligence possibly evolving beyond the war is a very new development. What we're explicitly told is that the machines want to evolve and that they only really seem to evolve through combat. They otherwise don't appear to learn.

I mean, I feel like I'm taking what the game says at face value. There's YoRHa and there's machines. The Commander knows that there are no humans, but not that YoRHa itself is designed to fail and give way to improved models at some point. The backdoor involves the machines destroying YoRHa, and appears to have set the stage for the machines' ultimate victory as far as any androids could tell. The machines have a reason to want an enemy, and a reason to want to be able to easily get rid of them when their purpose is fulfilled.

Slater said:
Again the machines did not creat Yorha if you don't believe what the game directly tells you then just look up the Yorha stage play where A2, Anemone and the Terminals were all introduced and look at what happened there, the terminals directly found out about what Yorha and the council actually were in it and that wouldn't make any fucking sense if they were the ones who built them
Click to expand...

Oh, I see there's an actual stage play. This is not very compelling. First, obviously there could have been changes in the production of the game. Second, I'm not sure why you'd take what the Terminals are saying to A2 at face value.
 
S

Slater

Banned
Gotchaye said:
I'm not sure why the machines have to have learned that humanity is extinct from YoRHa. What is the source for this?

I thought the emphasis was on the machine cores being recycled. Machines and androids are fundamentally similar - this is the purpose of this fact story-wise - and it's more humane to re-use existing cores than to bring about new cores for the purpose of eventually destroying them.

The main machine intelligence possibly evolving beyond the war is a very new development. What we're explicitly told is that the machines want to evolve and that they only really seem to evolve through combat. They otherwise don't appear to learn.

I mean, I feel like I'm taking what the game says at face value. There's YoRHa and there's machines. The Commander knows that there are no humans, but not that YoRHa itself is designed to fail and give way to improved models at some point. The backdoor involves the machines destroying YoRHa, and appears to have set the stage for the machines' ultimate victory as far as any androids could tell. The machines have a reason to want an enemy, and a reason to want to be able to easily get rid of them when their purpose is fulfilled.



Oh, I see there's an actual stage play. This is not very compelling. First, obviously there could have been changes in the production of the game. Second, I'm not sure why you'd take what the Terminals are saying to A2 at face value.
Click to expand...

That's not what happens, in the play which this game is a blatant sequel to make no mistake the terminals find out directly what Yorha's deal is and discuss it among themselves they don't spin a tale for A2, second just read the machine report from Jackass where she says she's going to kill the assholes who created Yorha and lied to them, which again if that was the Terminals doesn't make any fucking sense cause there gone and she knows that

It's all right there and laid out
 
G

Gotchaye

Member
Slater said:
That's not what happens, in the play which this game is a blatant sequel to make no mistake the terminals find out directly what Yorha's deal is and discuss it among themselves they don't spin a tale for A2, second just read the machine report from Jackass where she says she's going to kill the assholes who created Yorha and lied to them, which again if that was the Terminals doesn't make any fucking sense cause there gone and she knows that

It's all right there and laid out
Click to expand...

If you'd like to quote the parts of the play you're talking about that'd be welcome, but as far as Jackass' report goes I feel like she's much more plausibly referring to people who were behind the coverup of humanity's extinction - androids that we're told exist like those on the moon taking care of the servers - rather than some previously-unmentioned and never-appearing group of androids capable of carrying on the fight against the machines and rebuilding YoRHa. It's not clear to me from Jackass' report that she's even aware that YoRHa was designed to fail - she just seems mad about the human coverup.
 
F

FlutterPuffs

Member
Eumi said:
I'm pretty sure the machines didn't create YoRHa since the machines only learned about YoRHa in the stage play. Androids created YoRHa using machine cores because they didn't feel comfortable using android AI tech to create people that were all designed to be murdered.

There are definitely androids above the commander, but they aren't important. The machines had the SS classified stuff from hacking into the bunker, but originally it would have been correspondence between the machines who created YoRHa.

Of course they could all be dead by now. The pods seem to be the ones responsible for cleanup so they could be all that's left.
Click to expand...

I dont think the androids created Yorha from robots due to not being comfortable, but out of convenience. Same with the robots reusing parts from dead androids to create other robots. Basically recycling the materials, over and over.

But yeah, the androids learnt about the human coverup by hacking deep into the Android database. Can't remember where but it was definitely in the game.

Jackass is pissed about everything, the human coverup, the androids, because she's Jackass and she doesn't give a fuck.
 
J

Jiraiza

Member
Gotchaye said:
If you'd like to quote the parts of the play you're talking about that'd be welcome, but as far as Jackass' report goes I feel like she's much more plausibly referring to people who were behind the coverup of humanity's extinction - androids that we're told exist like those on the moon taking care of the servers - rather than some previously-unmentioned and never-appearing group of androids capable of carrying on the fight against the machines and rebuilding YoRHa. It's not clear to me from Jackass' report that she's even aware that YoRHa was designed to fail - she just seems mad about the human coverup.
Click to expand...

She's pretty mad about the fact her best buddy, the Commander, got the short end of the stick, too.
 
R

ramyeon

Member
The whole Machines created YorHa argument is really fundamentally flawed and I think it basically relies on a misinterpretation of the intention behind the Black Box = Machine Core reveal to even be considered.
 
W

Weiss

Banned
YoRHa was created by Androids like the Devola and Popola models to perpetuate the lie that humanity was alive and to fight off the Machines.
 
Hikami

Hikami

Member
AwShucks said:
I loved A2 and all but everytime I see 2B in a screen or video I wish we had more playing time as 2B.
Click to expand...

2B and 9S got their own routes. A2 had to share one with 9S. I wanted more playtime as A2 here, way more fun than the other two. Hopefully in a DLC or something.
 
E

Eumi

Member
Just beat the second secret Emil boss.

Anyone who hasn't done that should definetly do it. The first Emil fight is kinda just a bonus boss, but this is probably one of the best moments in the whole game.

Now, to buy my trophies and then delete my save!
 
U

Ubernube

Member
AwShucks said:
I loved A2 and all but everytime I see 2B in a screen or video I wish we had more playing time as 2B.
Click to expand...

Honestly, I wish we got more play and screen time with A2. She's playable and plays a role in the story for part of a route instead of having one dedicated to her like 9S and 2B had. I feel it kind of harmed her overall character development and progression since it goes so quickly in Route C.
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
Ubernube said:
Honestly, I wish we got more play and screen time with A2. She's playable and plays a role in the story for part of a route instead of having one dedicated to her like 9S and 2B had. I feel it kind of harmed her overall character development and progression since it goes so quickly in Route C.
Click to expand...
Let's be real. The ladies derserved way more time then they got. A2 was missing a prologue and more 2b is never a bad thing. Was missing her during route C.
 
E

Eumi

Member
ubercheez said:
I heard it's completely impossible to get through that final gauntlet solo even if you're a shmup god because the enemies eventually become invincible.
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Someone earlier in the thread says they did it, but I could barely follow their description of the method so I'm not sure impossible isn't all that apt a description, if not literal.

Also it's mathematically impossible that data is actually deleted upon taking damage in the choir section, right? I mean, even assuming an incredibly generous average of two hits in that section, and every single person deleting their own data, we'd have already run out of help, right?
 
U

ubercheez

Member
Eumi said:
Someone earlier in the thread says they did it, but I could barely follow their description of the method so I'm not sure impossible isn't all that apt a description, if not literal.

Also it's mathematically impossible that data is actually deleted upon taking damage in the choir section, right? I mean, even assuming an incredibly generous average of two hits in that section, and every single person deleting their own data, we'd have already run out of help, right?
Click to expand...

Yeah, I really really want to know how they actually implemented this. It was an absolutely mindblowing experience in the moment, but as you said there's no way this could be a 1 to 1 translation of players getting hit to saves lost.
 
D

DrunkShogun

Member
ThatChairMan said:
That final Emil boss fight. Goddamn, the laughing and crying was too much to take.
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I couldn't even imagine how more depressing it could have been if they somehow made a reasonable excuse to get kaine and Nier to have a voiced cameo. As in squeeze a flashback between the two games with the three of them.
 
C

Christhor

Member
DrunkShogun said:
I couldn't even imagine how more depressing it could have been if they somehow made a reasonable excuse to get kaine and Nier to have a voiced cameo. As in squeeze a flashback between the two games with the three of them.
Click to expand...

A flashback to Kaine and Emil camping together would be rad. Or if you wanted a scene with all four of them, then the "don't look back" dialogue playing in the back could work pretty well.
 
B

Baalzebup

Member
ThatChairMan said:
That final Emil boss fight. Goddamn, the laughing and crying was too much to take.
Click to expand...
I finally just played this as well. Goddammit, Emil. That hit pretty hard.
Squire said:
Finally did the Amnesia quest last night. 2Bs jealousy is really cute.
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While this isn't an untrue statement by any means, that is a kind of funny observation to make considering the way the quest ends. People usually comment on the fucked up situation of the E-type.
 
S

Squire

Banned
Baalzebup said:
I finally just played this as well. Goddammit, Emil. That hit pretty hard.

While this isn't an untrue statement by any means, that is a kind of funny observation to make considering the way the quest ends. People usually comment on the fucked up situation of the E-type.
Click to expand...

Oh no, I agree that stuff is way dark, but I'd already read about it in this thread a week ago. That particular reaction has settled.
 
A

AlucardGV

Banned
snow in jamaica said:
How do you "conclude" Drakengard?
Click to expand...

you play as accord and you travel through timelines just to seal them off.


anyway the name i put at the beginning of the game was "Caim" so i wonder if someone will get helped by Caim for ending E.
not canon i know because caim would rather appear as a name in the credits to kill the player
 
C

Christhor

Member
Speaking of Accord, after beating the game and talking to the lady with the machine head in the resistance camp, I actually expected them to reveal that it was Accord. It just fit in very well with all the meta dialogue and the you know what store. But there's really nothing else to support that.
 
B

BADMAN

Member
Christhor said:
Speaking of Accord, after beating the game and talking to the lady with the machine head in the resistance camp, I actually expected them to reveal that it was Accord. It just fit in very well with all the meta dialogue and the you know what store. But there's really nothing else to support that.
Click to expand...

Does that mean the man with the machine head is Caim?
 
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