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THQ: 'Humongous change' in graphics not the focus for next-gen, business models are

diamount

Banned
Err, didn't they also say photorealistic games have to be possible for other genres to flourish or something like that? So many conflicting opinions from THQ.
 

+Aliken+

Member
I read very clearly what you said, and I stand my point.
You, like many others on GAF, are implying that with more powerful hardware developers would be focused just on improving graphics and that giving them less powerful hardware is good cause it will force them to focus on design.
Which is bullshit.

Well, here's an uncomfortable truth for you guys: developers in the mainstream market will *always* be focused on improving graphics, because that's what help sales the most, and if new consoles aren't going to give them enough additional hardware power, they aren't going to change philosophy, they are just going to improve graphics at expenses of other stuff.

At the moment yes focusing on graphics is enough but will it be enough in the future?
I stand by innovation as the best answer to increase sales, people need to try new things to keep themselves interested.



Of course not. I barely even play consoles anymore. I almost play exclusively on my PC, ipad or iphone. What's the point of a console if it doesn't get me really good graphics for cheap? You know that nextgen is going to be sony and microsoft trying to get me to give them money for services I don't want on a super closed system. What's the point?

How about the games?
Some games you can only find on home consoles.
 

pvpness

Member
I read very clearly what you said, and I stand my point.
You, like many others on GAF, are implying that with more powerful hardware developers would be focused just on improving graphics and that giving them less powerful hardware is good cause it will force them to focus on design.
Which is bullshit.

Well, here's an uncomfortable truth for you guys: developers in the mainstream market will *always* be focused on improving graphics, because that's what help sales the most, and if new consoles aren't going to give them enough additional hardware power, they aren't going to change philosophy, they are just going to improve graphics at expenses of other stuff.

can you prove this? Most of my data says visuals aren't the top priority for most consumers, which seems to be what your suggesting.
 
You say that to me after reading Loghorn150's posts in this thread? Try to be a little less transparent.

I'm talking to you, not Longhorn or anyone else - did you see me agreeing with him? (no idea what he's said BTW.) Get a grip Son, it isn't the end of the world.
 

MadOdorMachine

No additional functions
I disagree, Crysis gave you this suit that didn't exactly work the way I thought it would. I felt less powerful then standard human enemies, despite the "open" nature of the environment, I always end up spamming the stealth mode just to keep my energy in reserve not to mention the ridiculous"AI" hive-awareness they all have. The suit mechanics was like a jumping-jack sequence just to get it to work: stealth/off/shield/off/speed/off, etc etc. simply because they lose energy too fast. Need I also mention that the sprint whether suit activated or not depletes your energy. Ridiculous.

Uncharted at least gets it consistent, the mechanics do work to the design although I wished they would've expanded the formula than kept it context-based.

I'd like to see them expand on suit upgrades with Crysis 3. It was a really cool idea they put in with Crysis 2 that felt unfinished imo. Perhaps they could have extra batteries you could get for it like Metroid/Megaman.
 

jmls1121

Banned
You look at the trailers for Watch Dogs and the new Star Wars game, supposedly representative of next-gen graphics, and there is an honest debate whether the game would be playable on the current HD Twins

I think we are heading towards the smallest jump ever between console generations, at least in terms of the graphical representations on the screen. Can graphics look a lot better than they do now? Yes. But the cost to develop that type of game makes no economic sense.
 
I'm talking to you, not Longhorn or anyone else - did you see me agreeing with him? (no idea what he's said BTW.) Get a grip Son, it isn't the end of the world.

What are you even going on about? What "desperation"? Who's "losing grip"? How are you getting these reactions from the two innocuous posts I made in this thread?
 

Persona86

Banned
It's about time we focus more on improving AI and Physics etc. What's the point of amazing graphics when you don't improve on other aspects of games?
 

edgefusion

Member
Of course if there is any company that is capable of accurately predicting the future it's THQ, that bedrock of financial stability and success.
 

Vanillalite

Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Of course the move from DX10 to DX11 hasn't really been there. Companies are hardly maxing out DX10 to a certain extent because companies are trying to focus on getting the game looking and running great on the widest range possible. This either means making a console version or concentrating on making the "mid" range version of the PC look great and then scaling up from there.

When you basically have DX9+ consoles you're not going to see a ton of ZOMG DX11 stuff right now. That being said some of the stuff we have seen is pretty great. It's also crazy talk to not think there isn't a big jump the the Samaritan/Fantasy Epic demos or the SE Luminous demo.
 

jmls1121

Banned
It's also crazy talk to not think there isn't a big jump the the Samaritan/Fantasy Epic demos or the SE Luminous demo.

There is certainly a jump, but I really wouldn't call it that big.

Think about some of the previous graphichal jumps between generations. This will likely be the smallest jump yet.
 
What are you even going on about? What "desperation"? Who's "losing grip"? How are you getting these reactions from the two innocuous posts I made in this thread?

Oh I dunno', perhaps because you're trying to desperately twist the THQ guy's words... Allllllll the quotes from people in the business which allude to the exact same thing, and, oh yes, what top end PCs are currently achieving at $1000 costs, and yet you STILL want everyone to believe you theory? Yeah. No. Time to face reality. Why that is so difficult though, I don't know.
 

Majanew

Banned
Oh I dunno', perhaps because you're trying to desperately twist the THQ guy's words... Allllllll the quotes from people in the business which allude to the exact same thing, and, oh yes, what top end PCs are currently achieving at $1000 costs, and yet you STILL want everyone to believe you theory? Yeah. No. Time to face reality. Why that is so difficult though, I don't know.

Are you saying that what is being achieved on top end PCs right now is all next-gen consoles will be able to accomplish?
 
Oh I dunno', perhaps because you're trying to desperately twist the THQ guy's words... Allllllll the quotes from people in the business which allude to the exact same thing, and, oh yes, what top end PCs are currently achieving at $1000 costs, and yet you STILL want everyone to believe you theory? Yeah. No. Time to face reality. Why that is so difficult though, I don't know.

If you saw "desperation" in those two posts that wasn't my intention, lmao. What theory am I trying to propagate? Why are you singling me out? You sound quite butthurt about the Wii U probably being considerably less powerful than the PS4 and 720 and are purposely misconstruing my posts. I'm not the one who has to 'face reality' here. There's quotes and rumors saying PS4 and the next Xbox will be much more powerful as well.
 
If you saw "desperation" in those two posts that wasn't my intention, lmao. What theory am I trying to propagate? Why are you singling me out? You sound quite butthurt about the Wii U probably being considerably less powerful than the PS4 and 720 and are purposely misconstruing my posts. I'm not the one who has to 'face reality' here. There's quotes and rumors saying PS4 and the next Xbox will be much more powerful as well.

It's amazing. I actually understand why the term "cool bro, wanna cookie" was coined. I literary don't have the mental age to comprehend, process or give a a decent reply to this.
 

Derrick01

Banned
It's about time we focus more on improving AI and Physics etc. What's the point of amazing graphics when you don't improve on other aspects of games?

I'm with you. No one seems interested in that though, I guess because you can't sell a game to casuals on AI. Hell if you made AI smart they'd probably just bitch that the game is too hard and they can't auto win like COD.
 
It's amazing. I actually understand why the term "cool bro, wanna cookie" was coined. I literary don't have the mental age to comprehend, process or give a a decent reply to this.

You also don't seem to have the mental age to comprehend the difference between 'literary' and 'literally', but alright dude, I'll try to refrain from being so incredibly desperate in my posts.
 
Be careful Heavy, you may not want to resort to pointing out typos or spelling mistakes; the last bastion of the desperate internet troll.

EDIT

You also don't seem to have the mental age to comprehend the difference between 'literary' and 'literally', but alright dude, I'll try to refrain from being so incredibly desperate in my posts.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
"Games as a service" rather than "games as a product" comes to mind.

games will not be ours anymore, folks.
 
I read very clearly what you said, and I stand my point.
You, like many others on GAF, are implying that with more powerful hardware developers would be focused just on improving graphics and that giving them less powerful hardware is good cause it will force them to focus on design.
Which is bullshit.

Well, here's an uncomfortable truth for you guys: developers in the mainstream market will *always* be focused on improving graphics, because that's what help sales the most, and if new consoles aren't going to give them enough additional hardware power, they aren't going to change philosophy, they are just going to improve graphics at expenses of other stuff.

No, actually focusing on graphics is what wrecked the game industry this past gen, and the success of mobile gaming and the Wii proved just the opposite also. But congrats for being able to so easily and nonchalantly state the complete *opposite* of the obvious truth. Graphics is what you (and other enthusiasts) want - along with a lot of (imo completely misguided) developers. But it's not what makes money. And of course the (mostly verbally) enthusiast market is not willing to pay the price for this.


"Games as a service" rather than "games as a product" comes to mind.

games will not be ours anymore, folks.


Yep.
 

RoboPlato

I'd be in the dick
All this talk of new business models makes me really worried. I don't want my proper single player experiences to go away.
 

davepoobond

you can't put a price on sparks
They have never been ours.

ours insofar that we have control over when and where we play a game. once games become a service they can flip the switch on and off whenever they want.

thats called "engaging" your customers. When you can't afford to keep a game on anymore, you shut it off for everyone.


All this talk of new business models makes me really worried. I don't want my proper single player experiences to go away.



i wouldnt say they would go away completely. there will still be a market for it. but i think that it will probably be restrained more to single-player RPGs and possibly single-player action games. And most likely puzzle games.

but anything that can be "MMO-ized" or "made into a service" will be the thing to do for publishers. They develop all that game technology and sell a million copies, but where does it get them in the end? It is infinitely more appealing to keep building on that same technology and release DLC/expansions since all the "sequels" we get now are practically doing the same thing in more expensive fashion
 
You look at the trailers for Watch Dogs and the new Star Wars game, supposedly representative of next-gen graphics, and there is an honest debate whether the game would be playable on the current HD Twins

I think we are heading towards the smallest jump ever between console generations, at least in terms of the graphical representations on the screen. Can graphics look a lot better than they do now? Yes. But the cost to develop that type of game makes no economic sense.

Honest debate by people who are honestly out of their mind. You can look at any Crysis 3 bullshot and realize that the DX11 stills can't be achieved on the PS3 and 360, and it's actually costing them more to downgrade assets, implement AA options that don't turn the game into a slideshow, and optimize for 30fps.
 

inky

Member
Developers must be salivating at the thought of phone-gaming-like micropayments.

Yep, it seems like they are going to have it both ways: charge you $60 for your 'AAA' games and have online storefronts filled to the brim with shit, boosters and "convenience" items.

Dark days ahead of us.
 

SmokedMeat

Gamer™
Not suprising at all. But it doesn't suggest to me that graphics aren't going to leap forward. Just that the FOCUS is on sucking gamers dry with "business models" like Microsoft's "apps" and "services". More season passes and DLC than ever before, and maybe some paid cloud gaming service.

I really hate where this hobby is leading.
 
Honest debate by people who are honestly out of their mind. You can look at any Crysis 3 bullshot and realize that the DX11 stills can't be achieved on the PS3 and 360, and it's actually costing them more to downgrade assets, implement AA options that don't turn the game into a slideshow, and optimize for 30fps.

This is quite irrelevant to the basic argument that says development costs will increase with better technology (obviously not for technical reasons though) and the market may not be willing to pay for it. Obviously porting (down or up) costs some money. The point is that developing for newer, more cutting edge technology costs, for a number of reasons, more than developing for old stuff. There's no technical reason for why things need to be this way of course, better technology could easily be used to ease developer's burdens. It just hasn't happened yet.
 

george_us

Member
Shut the fuck up about business models, target audiences, etc. I'm so tired of hearing about that shit from what's supposed to be a creative industry.
 

Gueras

Banned
Why PC has beautiful games with awesome graphics and small budget? why only in consoles if graphics get better than game got expensive???
 

Sentenza

Member
No, actually focusing on graphics is what wrecked the game industry this past gen
I thought it was mismanagement.
No, wait, I still think it's mismanagement.

But congrats for being able to so easily and nonchalantly state the complete *opposite* of the obvious truth.
You clearly didn't get a single word of what I wrote, anyway. So I'm not sure why you are pretending otherwise.

Graphics is what you (and other enthusiasts) want
Please, feel free to spread even more bullshit. Don't mind the truth.
I never claimed I want graphics above everything else (even if-unlike you- I'm not childish enough to pretend it doesn't add to the quality of the experience), I simply argued that depriving developers of more powerful hardware isn't going to stop them from looking to ways to improve graphics.
Beside, graphics is not what I want, it's what I already have, playing on PC. As far as I'm concerned next gen consoles could be even weaker than a Wii performance wise and I still couldn't give a damn.
Hell, I could probably even enjoy the funny side of the thing.

So here's the catch: if they have good hardware they are improving the graphics and then eventually using the additional power in other ways.
If the hardware is just barely better than the previous gen, on the other hand, they are simply going to use that additional power on better graphics, ignoring pretty much anything else.

If you don't agree, I don't know what game industry are following in these years.
Maybe pvpness "statistics" (about WHAT, I have NO IDEA) can help us all to see the truth.
 

Boss Man

Member
Is this the same THQ guy who went like two weeks straight saying shit like, "We don't want to make games like Saints Row, it's too crazy." and other things that sound like really dumb and terrible decisions?
 

Gueras

Banned
Im getting tired about indusytry saying we need to play with graphics from ps2 era and customers are buying this ridiculuos idea...
 

Haunted

Member
Upcoming leap nonwithstanding, Sony and Microsoft took too long with this generation and have basically lost me as a consumer as a result.

A good PC and steam is where it's at - they'll have to try that much harder with a whole slew of fantastic exclusives to win me back, otherwise, I can't see myself moving away from my current setup (sans Wii U for the next mainline Zelda and Mario).
 
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