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Competitive Super Smash Bros. Melee Discussion Thread

I

IntelliHeath

As in "Heathcliff"
Shimesaba said:
From Mew2King's Brawl Hate thread, linked above:

Jeus0eb.png


Spade59, you were so right.
Click to expand...

And it will be around for other 4-6 years anyway. I don't think people should worry about Melee too much. At least people are still around to support Melee then it should have a long life.
 
N

Necromanti

Member
I keep forgetting just how broken Melee (and its physics) was. It definitely allowed for a lot of weird things to be pulled off.
 
J

jholmes

Member
Great OP! Fantastic read. The work put in is greatly appreciated. I haven't played much Melee since college so this was a nice walk down memory lane.
 
Rentahamster

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
You weren't joking when you said you're writing a novel. Nice work. Good read. Concise, and full of pertinent information.
 
N

Neol

Member
Nice OP.

Been following this scene since the times where Masashi was considered to be the best fox. Never would have thought the game would still be this strong after all these years.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
Great topic!

Small nitpick, the issue of Nintendo Power that featured competitive Smash was in 2005, not 2006. I remember this very distinctly because that's when I first read about Ken and other players.
 
C

Codeblue

Member
Had no idea M2K uses different controllers for different characters. That's mind blowing.

Great job on the thread, Anth0ny.
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
I'm blown away by all of the kind words. Thanks everyone! Sounds like you guys enjoyed reading it as much as I enjoyed writing it :D


There is a severe lack of Amsa in this thread. Here's some Amsa:

EWnq7FL.gif


3iyr8ac.gif


SxEhJZG.gif


Be on the look out for this Yoshi, everyone. It's scary, and he improves with every tournament.
 
M

Mikel1015

Banned
One thing I can't stand is melee fanboys who think any smash bros game that isn't melee is automatic garbage and don't deserve to be a part of the smash bros community/competitive scene.

Yes I am bitter towards those morons at the Apex finale
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Mikel1015 said:
One thing I can't stand is melee fanboys who think any smash bros game that isn't melee is automatic garbage and don't deserve to be a part of the smash bros community/competitive scene.

Yes I am bitter towards those morons at the Apex finale
Click to expand...

Me too.
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
Great OP, does a good job covering everything.

I only play PM and not Melee, but it's hella fun to watch and most technical stuff applies to both (but Melee is harder).

A huge regret of mine is dumping Smash entirely when Brawl came out. I discovered competitive Smash around 2005 or so, but I wasn't playing many console games at all at that time so I didn't really dabble in it. By 2007 I was back into consoles and instead of learning Melee I decided to wait for Brawl. Awful decision, because I didn't play Brawl for more than a few months before dropping it entirely. I still liked Melee, but it didn't seem like it was going to have a future so I didn't go back to it either. If only I'd known...

Also, yes, moonwalking might be unnecessary (doubly so in PM with RAR) but dammit I play Falcon and feel like I need to learn to do it!
 
D

Deleted member 125677

Unconfirmed Member
I wish they would release a digital version for the Wii U! They could do that, like SMG2 and MPT, right?
 
A

Anth0ny

Member
Roboleon said:
I wish they would release a digital version for the Wii U! They could do that, like SMG2 and MPT, right?
Click to expand...

They absolutely could. In fact, with homebrew, you can play Melee on your Wii U right now.

If Nintendo ends up doing Gamecube Virtual Console for Wii U, you'd have to imagine the best selling Gamecube game would make it on there. They released Smash 64 on Wii Virtual Console, after all.
 
G

GamerJM

Banned
chaosblade said:
Great OP, does a good job covering everything.

I only play PM and not Melee, but it's hella fun to watch and most technical stuff applies to both (but Melee is harder).

A huge regret of mine is dumping Smash entirely when Brawl came out. I discovered competitive Smash around 2005 or so, but I wasn't playing many console games at all at that time so I didn't really dabble in it. By 2007 I was back into consoles and instead of learning Melee I decided to wait for Brawl. Awful decision, because I didn't play Brawl for more than a few months before dropping it entirely. I still liked Melee, but it didn't seem like it was going to have a future so I didn't go back to it either. If only I'd known...

Also, yes, moonwalking might be unnecessary (doubly so in PM with RAR) but dammit I play Falcon and feel like I need to learn to do it!
Click to expand...

My biggest regret is being turned off of participating in the competitive community myself after participating in a 2005 local tournament that was timed with no stage bans where I got destroyed by a campy Link on Temple, and then later finding out about advanced techniques and not being able to perform a wavedash because I thought you had to do an extra input that you don't actually have to do. It took getting randomly paired up with people who happened to TO local events as roommates last year and having them bug me to come to tournaments a few times after playing with them for a few months, even though I was already following the competitive community for years before I met them.
 
B

Brakke

Banned
Incredible OP thanks for putting it together. This scene is fascinating lunacy.

Those commentators sure do like to say "rape" huh.
 
drotahorror

drotahorror

Member
Awesome read. I never was big into Smash, but I watched that documentary and loved it. This write up was sick as well. Thanks.
 
K

KimiNewt

Scored 3/100 on an Exam
Great OP.
I've been trying to get back into Melee recently, but it's difficult as there was basically no community here (Israel) even in the heyday (Nintendo consoles never even shipped here officially).

I have a few friends that played with me, but would now prefer the Wii U version. I'm all for playing all versions, but when the total amount of players in the country is lower than 10-- it's not really good to further fragment (I am also inexplicably terrible at it).

I'm having a first semi-competitive get-together at my place this week, so I hope it goes well.
 
cantona222

cantona222

Member
Great thread OP. I loved the depth. Great timing for me since I've wanted to learn more about the competitive scene in Melee. I will come back soon to finish reading the thread.
 
F

FSLink

Banned
Anth0ny said:
They absolutely could. In fact, with homebrew, you can play Melee on your Wii U right now.

If Nintendo ends up doing Gamecube Virtual Console for Wii U, you'd have to imagine the best selling Gamecube game would make it on there. They released Smash 64 on Wii Virtual Console, after all.
Click to expand...

Speaking of which, using Nintendont on Wii U + Gamecube adapter, is it good enough to play Melee on that instead of my GCN all the time?
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
A couple things that may not be worth adding to the OP but are something for a new player to think over.

Don't practice/learn wavedashing with Luigi. Some people (probably ones who don't actually play) tend to recommend learning with him since he has low traction and a long wavedash, but it's better to learn with the character you actually intend to use. If that is Luigi then great, but characters have different timing based on their jump squat. Best to get comfortable with your character instead of having to "relearn" it.

And for dash dancing, the most important thing to understand is that it isn't "running back and forth." It is space control, and each dash is just an option. If you are just mindlessly dashing back and forth, you may as well be standing still (in fact standing is probably a better idea in that case). Every move should have a purpose, and that includes during dash dancing.
 
C

Cronox

Banned
Love the thread, just a couple suggestions - for people looking to find a local scene, this link is pretty exhaustive.

Also, for the smash doc, maybe linking to the playlist would be better so people know what they're looking at before they sit down - 9 episodes of great documentary stuff. Samox (the filmmaker) is making a feature length doc about Armada that's been filming for some time now too!

Melee matches are by far the most hype video game to watch for me. I don't even play it anymore, but man, what the best players in the world are doing in this game is crazy, especially when you know how many inputs are necessary to make that happen. If I was 10 years younger I'd be working at getting good at the game myself. Given where I'm at now, I'll satisfy myself with playing Smash 4 where my old man reaction time doesn't hurt me quite as much. But I'll definitely be tuning in to Melee at Evo!
 
G

Gaston

Member
Great thread! I really need to get my melee netplay up and running. I have been playing a lot of PM as of late (ditched Sm4sh), but I would like to start practicing my melee as well. Finally am getting the hang of moonwalking so I have a feeling I will be playing a lot of Falcon!
 
E

ec0ec0

Member
apart from the suggestions that i made in the previous page (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152249462&postcount=44) , i'd like to add this:
chaosblade said:
(talking about wavesashing) ...characters have different timing based on their jump squat..
Click to expand...

i think that this should definitely be mentioned in the OP (it would only take another phrase :p). You would only have to mention it, as there's a list of the different timings in Wak's “Advanced how to play” videos.

EDIT: another thing xD the other thread made me think about something: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=152290520&postcount=234

how the game handles your inputs is really different in melee and can feel differrent to people coming from newer smash games. Mentioning buffering may be a good idea?
 
0

0xCA2

Member
Right when you post this someone posts a new Melee vs Brawl thread.

Brakke said:
Incredible OP thanks for putting it together. This scene is fascinating lunacy.

Those commentators sure do like to say "rape" huh.
Click to expand...

There was a conscious effort to stop this several years ago IIRC, along with 'gay' (replaced by 'lame'). People don't say it anymore. It's said often in old matches, though.
 
K

Kimosabae

Banned
Great job, Anthony. Wonder why I never thought to do this myself.

Only problem that I have: "Platinum Age" heading. Seems a bit premature. Who knows where this scene is going to be 5 years from now? The heading implies that this is the scene at its apex and I don't know about that. Still feels like it's got some rise left in it.
 
A

Azure J

Member
So honestly, how does everyone else see the breakdown of the topmost players in Melee currently? I feel like it looks something like this right now:

5 Gods (no real order here)

Mango
Armada
PPMD
Hungrybox
Mew2King

Godslayer/The Demon

Leffen

Demigods

Axe
Hax
Colbol
Shroomed
Amsa (has definitely earned a spot here but could break out into his own tier above this; not quite top 5 killer or top 5 killer killer yet)
PewPewU
Westballz (can also be in his own "What The Hell Westballz" tier)
SilentWolf
Hugs
 
M

Mumei

Member
Fantastic OP.

Anth0ny said:
In 2007, there were many players attempting to break into the upper echelon of Melee play. Jason “Mew2King” Zimmerman was one of them. An extremely dedicated and technical player, M2K created what is essentially a bible of Melee knowledge by himself: a frame by frame analysis of the game using nothing but the pause button.
Click to expand...

Heh. I remember when he was first posting information on Smashboards. I also remember him getting some grief about the fact that his experience was, at the time, almost exclusively against the computer. When I started watching fighting game streams in 2011 (MvC3), I went back and watched a lot of the SSBM stuff I missed (when I had last looked, Ken was the best Marth in the world). When I saw that that M2K was one of the very best players in the world, I did a double-take. Wait, that Mew2King? The same guy that was posting on Smashboards six or seven years ago?

I was quite impressed.
 
S

sinxtanx

Member
Kimosabae said:
Great job, Anthony. Wonder why I never thought to do this myself.

Only problem that I have: "Platinum Age" heading. Seems a bit premature. Who knows where this scene is going to be 5 years from now? The heading implies that this is the scene at its apex and I don't know about that. Still feels like it's got some rise left in it.
Click to expand...

Platinum age been going for two years almost already
and we still got EVO this year

I'd say that counts as an age
 
E

ec0ec0

Member
From the 2006 issue of Nintendo Power:

- 2006 Bill Trinen: "The C stick is simply an aid for inexperienced players who need it. If you don't need it, you should be ashamed of using it."
Click to expand...

haha wow (he definitely needed to learn a couple if things about the C-stick...)

Also, Anth0ny, about the C-stick, you can mention in the OP that it's funtion changes in 1 player mode. F*cking Nintendo...
 
T

theprodigy

Member
ec0ec0 said:
From the 2006 issue of Nintendo Power:



haha wow (he definitely needed to learn a couple if things about the C-stick...)

Also, Anth0ny, about the C-stick, you can mention in the OP that it's funtion changes in 1 player mode. F*cking Nintendo...
Click to expand...

lol Trinen pls
someone check if he uses the C-stick with Rosalina
 
C

chaosblade

Unconfirmed Member
I suppose this is an appropriate place to ask: is there a gif/gfycat/youtube link to Wizzrobe and Gahtzu doing synchronized haxdashes? Saw them do it a little at Paragon (I think) but there was a comment they did it more/better somewhere previously. Was highly impressive.
 
S

Scythesurge

Member
Best thread on GAF ;) and a wonderful OP! Seeing all of this in 2015 makes me so happy...the memories of money matches in Smash 64 leading to the shift to playing and learning Melee to the local tournaments...and now we're e-sports. Seems like retiring from Melee is a temporary thing for most players, including myself. I'm really loving all of the Melee streams on twitch now, I've been learning so much and just having fun chilling in the streams!
 
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