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Kotaku: Former and current ND employees about the allegations

Pie and Beans

Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
CC'd to everyone in the company, wow. Then subsequently 17 months out of the industry.

E-mail send and Tweet buttons need a "IS THIS WORTH IT?" pop-up 5 years ago.
 

jroc74

Phone reception is more important to me than human rights
Let's not forget that at the end of the day this is a personal matter for Ballard and whoever else is involved. We could wait forever for details to emerge that may never come since there is no requirement for either side to say anything publically. This could end up being settled by the involved parties in a private matter and we may never know any more than we do now, but that silence shouldn't push you to believe one side or the other. We might have to just accept that we'll never know the full story and we don't really have the right to.
Yup, this is true.
 

kliklik

Banned
Technically it doesn't disprove what he said, and even unpleasant people can be harassed... But on the other hand:

• he hasn't presented any record of anything to corroborate his statements (like even just an email asking the person to stop!)

• he didn't tell ANYONE at the time about it

• he didn't file an HR claim about sexual harassment

• yet he filed MULTIPLE HR complaints, possibly against multiple different people for various perceived grievances

• he CC'd everyone in the office while attacking a coworker to humiliate them


... this behaviour kinda makes him seem like the one who was harassing people at ND. Yikes. On the basis of what we know so far, I find I am not able to condemn Naughty Dog or Sony. I don't think he's lying; I just think his mental instability may have affected his ability to correctly interpret people's actions and words.
 
Yea, the company wide email seems like the biggest new detail here as it actually provides a different perspective on a small portion of the initial accusations (or maybe I missed something?).
 

Floody

Member
Sadly I think this is where this ends. Still not enough information to jump to any conclusion, but some people already have and more will as time goes on.

Feel really sorry for Ballard though, either-way he's not coming out of this in a good position (unless he has evidence, which he likely doesn't considering his state of mind at the time). I don't think he's lying about the sexual harassment either and the asshole who did it is likely still in a place of power somewhere.
 

III-V

Member
J putting in that due diligence. I wonder if we will see any follow up action from either party at this point. The laundry has been aired, but no direct harasser named. Interesting to see where this goes.
 
Imagine that it was someone you knew who was making the allegations and then remember that above anything else including the media corporations that make video games that there is a person involved. If he is lying for attention (not proven by this article by any stretch) or otherwise then Ballard's mental problems go deeper than I would want to understand or empathize with.

Regardless of if it were someone whom I knew or not, without solid facts to back up the accusations in the eyes of the law, and who said person is relative to myself, the law does not care.

In the eyes of the law, all they are interested in is if the accusations happened, who was the accused, and did the accused carry out the accusations.

I’m not saying he shouldn’t be empathised with, if he has mental health issues he most certainly should be getting all the help required, additionally, if the accusations do come out to be true, I hope he pursues through any and all avenues necessary.

Adversely, if it is found that he is lying, then coming out to the world about this, on Twitter of all places, may end up being one very costly and regrettable mistake.
 
I'm referring to the piece painting him as being under strain, having a mental breakdown, and thus that being used as a reason for why he was fired and/or potentially lied about sexual harrassment. My point being that in the cases of sexual harrassment, it is not uncommon to suddenly see media stories about a person that denigrates their personal integrity in some way or another. See what Harvey Weinstein and his company used to do for example. It's an old as time trick used by lawyers and others in and out of court to discredit woman as being crazy, whores, drug addicts, etc., when they claim sexual harrassment.

For the record I have no idea who is the right here, if there are more/similar people out there with the same kind of grievance against Sony, I wouldn't be surprised to see a class action. I just find this story rather interesting from the perspective of what often happens with sexual harrassment, albeit in this case it being done to a man.

And no, I'm not pointing fingers at Kotaku by saying this.

Firstly, I think the piece was well-written and balanced. I think it is respectful to Ballard, as it should be, without provoking the situation. It's simply reporting the facts. Unfortunately, the situation surrounding Ballard's departure from Naughty Dog is extremely relevant to the story and the mental breakdown was not information hidden by Ballard when making the claims. It's not exposing private information. The employees also seemed to be sympathetic towards David. Hopefully Jason is able to dig further and get to the truth for David and for Naughty Dog.
 

kliklik

Banned
Let's not forget that at the end of the day this is a personal matter for Ballard and whoever else is involved.

It is not anymore when they make public accusations and public statements are released.

Still not enough information to jump to any conclusion ... the asshole who did it is likely still in a place of power somewhere.

I mean, you kinda just jumped to a conclusion yourself (that the unnamed person actually committed sexual harassment and is a bad person.)

Regardless of if it were someone whom I knew or not, without solid facts to back up the accusations in the eyes of the law, and who said person is relative to myself, the law does not care.

The law is irrelevant here because we are not dealing with a court case and we are not jurors. The public is perfectly able and entitled to draw conclusions about situations without the courts weighing in – even one that goes against a verdict. I personally believe OJ Simpson was guilty despite being found not guilty. I think adultery is morally wrong and harmful even though it's not a crime, and I am convinced certain people have cheated on their spouses without them being put on trial. People are allowed to believe his claims even if they don't hold up to the scrutiny of criminal law standards.
 
Article refutes nothing that Ballard said(article doesn't intend to). Most of the comments from ND employees corroborate his story. Also I never got the feeling that Ballard was planning on taking this to court. It seems like we can take his words at face value here, he got courage from others to tell his story and that's pretty much it.
 
It is not anymore when they make public accusations and public statements are released.



I mean, you kinda just jumped to a conclusion yourself (that the unnamed person actually committed sexual harassment and is a bad person.)



The law is irrelevant here because we are not dealing with a court case and we are not jurors. The public is perfectly able and entitled to draw conclusions about situations without the courts weighing in – even one that goes against a verdict. I personally believe OJ Simpson was guilty despite being found not guilty. I think adultery is morally wrong and harmful even though it's not a crime, and I am convinced certain people have cheated on their spouses without them being put on trial. People are allowed to believe his claims even if they don't hold up to the scrutiny of criminal law standards.

Okay then, people are more than capable of coming to their own conclusions yes?

The same people who when presented with nothing other than baseless accusations, because that’s what it is just now, are more than willing to grab the pitchforks?
 

Dyle

Member
Great work psf. On the one hand I'd like to hear more from Ballard, but I also realize how much he already went on a limb posting what he did. Hopefully more stories like this coming out will lead to improvements on reporting/correcting harassment in the games industry
 
Technically it doesn't disprove what he said, and even unpleasant people can be harassed... But on the other hand:

• he hasn't presented any record of anything to corroborate his statements (like even just an email asking the person to stop!)

• he didn't tell ANYONE at the time about it

• he didn't file an HR claim about sexual harassment

• yet he filed MULTIPLE HR complaints, possibly against multiple different people for various perceived grievances

• he CC'd everyone in the office while attacking a coworker to humiliate them


... this behaviour kinda makes him seem like the one who was harassing people at ND. Yikes. On the basis of what we know so far, I find I am not able to condemn Naughty Dog or Sony. I don't think he's lying; I just think his mental instability may have affected his ability to correctly interpret people's actions and words.
Nobody knows what he talked to HR about, only that other employees believed it was unrelated to any potential sexual harassment. Let's not forget that David claims he did tell HR about the harassment and while the email event was obviously a breaking point and very unprofessional behaviour we don't know what caused him to send that email. If it was a result of ongoing harassment, in conjunction with a high-pressure work environment, then he definitely deserves some sympathy
 

Rurunaki

Member
The possibility of him being sexually harassed is still up in the air for debate. What is clear though was his email action which is harrassment on its own. I will wait for more details to surface before forming more concrete opinion on this issue. Also foe the people getting already passing judgements on ND/Sony/Balard, please be more objective and wait for further details before riling up others people.
 

kliklik

Banned
Okay then, people are more than capable of coming to their own conclusions yes?

The same people who when presented with nothing other than baseless accusations, because that's what it is just now, are more than willing to grab the pitchforks?

I think it's a bad conclusion to start condemning Sony/ND on the basis of what little we know, but my reasons for why it's a bad conclusion have nothing to do with how this situation would be treated in criminal law.

Nobody knows what he talked to HR about, only that other employees believed it was unrelated to any potential sexual harassment. Let's not forget that David claims he did tell HR about the harassment and while the email event was obviously a breaking point and very unprofessional behaviour we don't know what caused him to send that email. If it was a result of ongoing harassment, in conjunction with a high-pressure work environment, then he definitely deserves some sympathy

1) He stated that he brought up sexual harassment tangentially once HR opened a case on his mental breakdown and his workplace behaviour that ensued

2) Sony/ND state that they have no record of a formal HR sexual harassment complaint being filed

3) His coworkers stated that he told them he filed HR complaints but not about sexual harassment; instead, about being persecuted for leaving then coming back to ND

These three facts are in harmony when you accept that he did not file a formal sexual harassment complaint. Therefore, this is what I conclude unless he comes out and says, "no I actually did follow up the conversation with HR and file one."
 
Article refutes nothing that Ballard said(article doesn't intend to). Most of the comments from ND employees corroborate his story. Also I never got the feeling that Ballard was planning on taking this to court. It seems like we can take his words at face value here, he got courage from others to tell his story and that's pretty much it.

Can’t say I got that vibe at all.
 

Mael

Member
It's so common to have companies fire people who complain about sexual harassment that I really wouldn't put it past ND/Sony to have done that in this case.
Then you get the smear campaign on the former employee till it's resolved with a fat paycheck and a NDA.
Even in the case that the former employee would be right or wrong, unless the people interviewed by Kotaku were part of the HR department I doubt they would know about the drama all that much.

e: Sony/ND having no record of a formal complaint could be the HR department asking the dude whether he wants to file it or not and the employee declining for some reasons.
 

Floody

Member
I mean, you kinda just jumped to a conclusion yourself (that the unnamed person actually committed sexual harassment and is a bad person.)

I also said I don't think he's lying about the sexual harassment (I just don't see what he gains from it), and anyone who sexually harasses someone is a asshole.

People should just put the pitchforks down and see if anything more comes out.
 

hairygreenpeas

Neo Member
Yikes, this doesn't sound good at all for Ballard. I was more than wiling to side with him, as I often find myself doing when it comes to sexual harrassment/assault claims, because goodness knows the victims have suffered enough. I'm not going to disbelieve his claims just yet, but this definitely doesn't paint him in a good light.

I sure hope he's not making it all up, because his actions will also affect some people's perceptions on sexual harrassment/assault claims from actual victims.
 

Kinyou

Member
He claims he took it directly to HR not to everyone in the company. A second employee on twitter also says they had their own sexual harassment there.
Did that person also claim that it was covered up by ND?

This controversy isn't about whether sexual harassment can happen at ND, it's about whether ND dealt with it appropriately
 

KageMaru

Member
The article really doesn't change anything so the people jumping to conclusions like unfounded complaint are being stupid.

He claims he took it directly to HR not to everyone in the company. A second employee on twitter also says they had their own sexual harassment there.

In a case like this there isn't a lot that can be said or done in either direction if those employees did not keep documentation at the exact time it occurred if it did.

Completely agree with this.

Also think this part was rather telling:

One current Naughty Dog employee said that he and co-workers he spoke to were “blind-sided” by the news, and that while he believed Ballard’s allegations, he also believed that the studio had been unaware of them.

A current employee believes Ballard and it's entirely possible that the rest of the studio was completely unaware. This is entirely possible. Just because it happened, doesn't mean the studio knew about it. The fact that Ballard was mentally breaking down could have been the result of him keeping the encounter to himself all that time. Bottling something like that up with no clear solution or outcome can eat someone from the inside.
 

Mael

Member
Completely agree with this.

Also think this part was rather telling:



A current employee believes Ballard and it's entirely possible that the rest of the studio was completely unaware. This is entirely possible. Just because it happened, doesn't mean the studio knew about it. The fact that Ballard was mentally breaking down could have been the result of him keeping the encounter to himself all that time. Bottling something like that up with no clear solution or outcome can eat someone from the inside.

On top of that it's a major risk for someone to raise a complaint about sexual harassment.
In France, about 95% of women who do that are fired after all.
I'd say there's good reasons why he wouldn't want to go that public over it.
 

sn00zer

Member
Kinda odd for Kotaku to start asking people around the office. This would be a private HR thing that most people would not be privy to anyway.
 

TheFatMan

Member
At this point I have to at least consider that this may have been an employee who was having a rough time, and maybe was upset at the people and situations in his work place and lashed out with a lie. I'm not saying I know this for sure, but it has to be considered.

For example.

I am in charge of a large number of people at my job. Some of them are in high school, some of them are as old as 50. I once had to fire a 22 year old man for screaming at one of the 16 year old girls over some petty thing that happened in the break room (she was playing music on her phone or something...I forget).

After he was fired, the man went on to tell everyone he knew that I had told him to kill himself and do everyone a favor. Something I absolutely did not do in any way shape or form. This mans mother even called our head office and left a complaint about how terrible of a person I was.

All of this to save face over the fact that he had essentially been fired for being an ass to a child.

Basically what I'm saying is that people are people, and sometimes they say shit that isnt true to make themselves look like the victims. It might not be what has happened here. But I just wanted to share this story and remind everyone who is shitting all over Naughty Dog, that there isn't any proof that any of this happened and there are always two sides to a story.
 
Kinda odd for Kotaku to start asking people around the office. This would be a private HR thing that most people would not be privy to anyway.

Trying to find out if there could be some sort of bigger harassment issue at ND seems pretty relevant to me, nothing odd about it.
 

KageMaru

Member
On top of that it's a major risk for someone to raise a complaint about sexual harassment.
In France, about 95% of women who do that are fired after all.
I'd say there's good reasons why he wouldn't want to go that public over it.

Yup, there is major risks to one's employment and career by speaking up. I know for a fact that it's not hard to keep a lid on harassment if the victim doesn't openly speak up to a lot of people.
 

big_erk

Member
They are essentially providing positive references for ND and ND's culture. Why would they not name themselves?

ND doesn't reveal internal information about the email directly and their employees release it anonymously? I don't think that is a good look at all.

Because most companies have clauses about employees speaking about the coma\pany with the press. They have PR people for that. Doing so can be a fire-able offense. This is extremely common.

Kinda odd for Kotaku to start asking people around the office. This would be a private HR thing that most people would not be privy to anyway.

Have you ever worked in an office environment? Everyone knows a little of everything that goes on. If there was indeed a culture of harassment going on, someone else would know.
 

kliklik

Banned
After he was fired, the man went on to tell everyone he knew that I had told him to kill himself and do everyone a favor. Something I absolutely did not do in any way shape or form. This mans mother even called our head office and left a complaint about how terrible of a person I was.

And??? What happened next? What did head office do? Don't leave us hangin!
 

Mael

Member
Yup, there is major risks to one's employment and career by speaking up. I know for a fact that it's not hard to keep a lid on harassment if the victim doesn't openly speak up to a lot of people.
It's like well-oiled machine,
If anything transpires then you can rely on someone basically saying this to deflect any problem :
At this point I have to at least consider that this may have been an employee who was having a rough time, and maybe was upset at the people and situations in his work place and lashed out with a lie. I'm not saying I know this for sure, but it has to be considered.

For example.

I am in charge of a large number of people at my job. Some of them are in high school, some of them are as old as 50. I once had to fire a 22 year old man for screaming at one of the 16 year old girls over some petty thing that happened in the break room (she was playing music on her phone or something...I forget).

After he was fired, the man went on to tell everyone he knew that I had told him to kill himself and do everyone a favor. Something I absolutely did not do in any way shape or form. This mans mother even called our head office and left a complaint about how terrible of a person I was.

All of this to save face over the fact that he had essentially been fired for being an ass to a child.

Basically what I'm saying is that people are people, and sometimes they say shit that isnt true to make themselves look like the victims. It might not be what has happened here. But I just wanted to share this story and remind everyone who is shitting all over Naughty Dog, that there isn't any proof that any of this happened and there are always two sides to a story.

e:
Have you ever worked in an office environment? Everyone knows a little of everything that goes on. If there was indeed a culture of harassment going on, someone else would know.

You wish, if the harasser is not a dumbass there's ways they can act under the nose of nearly everyone.
It's easier to spot a predator in a hostile work environment but that doesn't mean it's easy to spot and prove at all.
And the lack of culture of harassment is not proof that harassment never happens or is something that the company would do something about as well
 

pixelation

Member
Let's not forget that at the end of the day this is a personal matter for Ballard and whoever else is involved. We could wait forever for details to emerge that may never come since there is no requirement for either side to say anything publically. This could end up being settled by the involved parties in a private matter and we may never know any more than we do now, but that silence shouldn't push you to believe one side or the other. We might have to just accept that we'll never know the full story and we don't really have the right to.

Hey bud... no one is looking for rationality here!!! *grabs pitchfork*
 

True Fire

Member
He CC’d everyone in the company in a passive aggressive email? I’m cringing so hard.

But I understand the crazy things people do during mental breakdowns. I’ve been through it.
 
D

Deleted member 80556

Unconfirmed Member
My big takeaway here is that the other employees said that they don't feel that ND's culture is one that would let this kind of thing just drift on.

Still, a harassment does not necessarily occur in the eyes of everyone, so it's possible that the anonymous sources didn't see anything because no one apart from Ballard and the harasser saw anything. I'm not gonna hope that Ballard comments on this, since he shouldn't be pressured to do or say anything on this, but rather hope that he finds peace and that he can join whatever company he wants to join and isn't bothered by this kind of thing or topic anymore. I also hope that if something really happened, that ND strengthens their systems for communication to better accommodate victims.
 
I think it's a bad conclusion to start condemning Sony/ND on the basis of what little we know, but my reasons for why it's a bad conclusion have nothing to do with how this situation would be treated in criminal law.



1) He stated that he brought up sexual harassment tangentially once HR opened a case on his mental breakdown and his workplace behaviour that ensued

2) Sony/ND state that they have no record of a formal HR sexual harassment complaint being filed

3) His coworkers stated that he told them he filed HR complaints but not about sexual harassment; instead, about being persecuted for leaving then coming back to ND

These three facts are in harmony when you accept that he did not file a formal sexual harassment complaint. Therefore, this is what I conclude unless he comes out and says, "no I actually did follow up the conversation with HR and file one."

This is about where I'm at.
 

big_erk

Member
It's like well-oiled machine,
If anything transpires then you can rely on someone basically saying this to deflect any problem :


e:

You wish, if the harasser is not a dumbass there's ways they can act under the nose of nearly everyone.
It's easier to spot a predator in a hostile work environment but that doesn't mean it's easy to spot and prove at all.
And the lack of culture of harassment is not proof that harassment never happens or is something that the company would do something about as well
Actually no, I don't wish. I've seen it first hand. You would be surprised what people know about their co-workers. I work in an enterprise with over 2500 employees, and if something like this goes on, it filters to everyone who listens.
 

Mael

Member
Actually no, I don't wish. I've seen it first hand. You would be surprised what people know about their co-workers. I work in an enterprise with over 2500 employees, and if something like this goes on, it filters to everyone who listens.

You're talking about harassment culture in a company.
That doesn't preclude harassment happening at all in a company without a pervasively hostile environment.
If the harasser is not an idiot, it's not hard for the predator to assault someone and try to pass it off as something else.
It's all cool and great to assume that because you work in a big company it means that HR is on the ball but they're not everywhere and a predator knowingly targetting victims while trying to be conspicuous could fly under the radar.
It's far from unheard of.
And on top of that it doesn't change the fact that it's nearly as efficient to call HR as it is to put in your resignation!
 

TheFatMan

Member
And??? What happened next? What did head office do? Don't leave us hangin!
Human resources asked me about it and asked about a dozen or so of the people who worked with me and the employee and as there was no one who had ever heard me say anything even remotely like that to anyone ever the matter was put to bed.


It's like well-oiled machine,
If anything transpires then you can rely on someone basically saying this to deflect any problem :
l

This is a ridiculous answer. I didn't tell that story to "deflect the problem" I told that story to point out that people are shitty and tell lies to make themselves look better or to look the victim ALL THE TIME. Kids do it, adults do it, hell old people do it. Watch a single episode of any cop show and you'll see people do it a dozen times.

People should no way all take this as a "don't tell anyone if you get harassed" message because that's not what I'm saying.

I'm just pointing out its unfair to lynch someone or a company by the balls on the word of one person who may or may of not had a problem of another nature at his or her work place.....it's not fair to anyone.
 

Mael

Member
This is a ridiculous answer. I didn't tell that story to "deflect the problem" I told that story to point out that people are shitty and tell lies to make themselves look better or to look the victim ALL THE TIME. Kids do it, adults do it, hell old people do it. Watch a single episode of any cop show and you'll see people do it a dozen times.

People should no way all take this as a "don't tell anyone if you get harassed" message because that's not what I'm saying.

I'm just pointing out its unfair to lynch someone or a company by the balls on the word of one person who may or may of not had a problem of another nature at his or her work place.....it's not fair to anyone.

This is not why you're saying this but this is how it is understood.
Again raising complaints about sexual harassment is one of the quickest way to get fired.
And people who fired others for complaining about sexual harassment will never tell that this was what it was about, they'll always find good reasons to explain it away.
 

KingV

Member
This almost seems like a hit-piece against Ballard.

What's the point of including this in the article?

Yeah, I find it kind of gross that employees are lining up to anonymously tear the guys character down.

Like I have no idea if the guys allegations are true, or honestly exactly what they are, but frankly, it just seems sort of cowardly. IMO, it’s questionable whether those he said, she said elements should have even been reported.

The one thing that makes me think he’s not making it up, is that it just doesn’t 100% add up. Like I sort of get why somebody would make up an allegation about a specific person, jilted lover, etc. but not why someone would make an allegation about a non-specific person at a company they used to work for.
 

Sylas

Member
This is not why you're saying this but this is how it is understood.
Again raising complaints about sexual harassment is one of the quickest way to get fired.
And people who fired others for complaining about sexual harassment will never tell that this was what it was about, they'll always find good reasons to explain it away.

That's not how it's understood. I understood it perfectly well to be him telling an anecdote about how people can lash out. Which is precisely what can happen and it's why allegations of any sort need to be taken very, very seriously on a company-wide level. At the end of the day it's always going to be a he-said-she-said scenario unless there's direct proof. It's very easy to say, "Yeah, people lash out," but it's also easy to say, "Sexual harassment absolutely happens and can be dangerous to report."
 
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