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Magic: the Gathering |OT13| Ixalan - Port to Sideboard
- Thread starter SigmasonicX
- Start date
Jesus. Better hope Dinos don't take off because it won't be going down if they do.
I was thinking about making a Dino deck to abuse both of the "Dinos you cast cost 1 less" cards, but if it's $100 for a playset of of the best Dino then I'll stick with Pirates.
Flavorful that Spain gets the conquistador playmats.
Breh. It's the boogeyman of the format.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
control sucks so why should carnage tyrant actually be good?
doesn't die to doom blade
But, like, nothing kills it except Fumigate and it's big enough that when it attacks it'll probably take two creatures to kill it.
It shouldn't be that hard to get it out early either with all of the ramp Dinosaurs got.
Settle the wreckage and doomfall kill it
Does anyone plan on using Settle the Wreckage? Looks pretty expensive for a mass Path.
And Doomfall only works if it's the only creature on their side of the field, which it won't be if they help cheat it in with Otepec Huntmaster, Drover of the Mighter, Kinjalli's Caller, etc.
jakonovski
Member
Namnam Elf will eat dinos for breakfast.
StrategyFan
Member
it's probably a paper pricing thing
it presumably helps vs people who force the game into luck of the draw and general lack of fun by running nothing but removal, counterspells, and blue gearhulks
tons of people have that deck (it was good at some point?), and could play it if people aren't playing aggro, which can happen more often in paper
half of my decks would just fold to x/u control that draws well and/or wins the die roll, so i would actually sideboard in tyrants if i had them
losing happens against other decks too, but it doesn't feel like you were out of deckbuilding options against those
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/johnavonart/magic-the-gathering-unhinged-playmats-by-john-avon
For those interested, John Avon just created a kickstarter page selling his unhinged lands playmats. Funded already
For those interested, John Avon just created a kickstarter page selling his unhinged lands playmats. Funded already
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
I've played this kind of deck for half a year now and carnage tyrant is the least of my worries. If you're a play big dumb things deck you're just not gonna have a good matchup against blue based control. Carnage Tyrant actuallly doesn't help there, I'm just gonna doomfall it or block with a bunch of your eternalized creatures.
URx control will be bad post rotation though imo.
it actually dies to a couple of things that already are seeing play. It's lucky Blessed Alliance is rotating at least.
those die to all the removal that's dead on carnage tyrant so you're not actually losing anything. They also die to damage based board wipes.
Yeah, Blessed Alliance rotating is great for it. Is there another "Target opponent sacs an attacking creature" card in standard? Feels like the kind of card that should always be there.
True enough. But I'm still not willing to call Doomfall a great solution just because paying 3 mana for an edict sucks. But yes, if you're playing Grixis control or whatever you can pretty easily HoD and Doomfall to make sure Carnage Tyrant goes down.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
doesn't look like there is one.
The thing is doomfall is great and any part black slow deck will run some in the sideboard. It's not just an edict but exiles which is very relevant with scarab god in the format and doubles as a thoughtseize. I don't need to run anything that answers carnage tyrant because I already have doomfall.
What deck would it even be good in? In RDW Hazoret will just block it every turn, in Energy they will double block it to kill it and maybe even have a big enough hydra to kill it on its own, control has scarab god to reanimate chump blockers. It is a bad ramp target because it dosent do anything ETB or on attack. Its going to suck in limited but there are commons at the same CMC that will trade with it at least.
Maybe it just becomes the card you throw into every green deck like you can just toss glorybringer into most decks that play red.
Maybe it just becomes the card you throw into every green deck like you can just toss glorybringer into most decks that play red.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
if you can't remove a random other creature in a slow black deck then you got bigger issues than carnage tyrant.
SigmasonicX
Member
Carnage Tyrant has trample.
So you take 3 damage... how much are you taking on the swing back on turn 7?
What about creatures that come with creatures (i.e. Regisaur Alpha, also a great card to play right before Carnage Tyrant)? Or stuff like Raptor Hatchling?
Is there enough removal to just trade card for card?
FreedomFrisbee
Member
People forget theres totally a 4 mana wrath in standard.
Hell, there's a three mana one too.
People been sleeping on Bontu's Last Reckoning for too long.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
yes and those can also be proactively countered.
We still looking at Disallow and Censor as the best counters in standard? Nothing in Ixalan really peaked my interest, except for Lookout's Dispersal, but I doubt a control deck wants to run enough pirates for that to be any good.
Just looking through the set after reading through the recent discussion in the thread and noticed that from the art in Elaborate Firecannon the cannons at least look like they're magical cannon analogs rather than actual powder based weapons.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
Pathing every random dude your opponent is swinging with isn't very good in general unless your opponent's last card is Hazoret.
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
I mean that only matters if your opponent can take you to zero on the swing back.
Yeah, the card doesn't look that great at all. Path is great because it's one mana and you can do it whenever you want. Here you have to hope your opponent is dumb enough to attack with a bunch of creatures into you even though you have 4 mana up.
It just screams "Hmm, they have something in their hand to blow me up."
Angry Grimace
Two cannibals are eating a clown. One turns to the other and says "does something taste funny to you?"
If your opponent is playing white and you have Hazoret or something, you just hang back and throw cards at them.
Or don't overcommit to the board.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
negate, essence scatter, disallow, censor, supreme will can all see main deck play.
Jace's Defeat, Spell Pierce, Dispel, Negate are generally the counters you'll see come in from the sideboard.
Yeah, that's a good selection of counters. I can't believe I forgot Spell Pierce was reprinted (though that won't do much against Dino decks).
OK, I'll admit that control should be fine against Carnage Tyrant. I still want to try him out should the price reach less ludicrous levels though. Doesn't seem like it's that hard to ramp him out really early or give him haste for immediate impact, and Dino support overall seems pretty good.
Okay, trying to looks through the Ixalan cards before the prerelease so I can have an idea of what I may see and be facing and what each thing can do, etc. So I figured I'll throw out questions on interactions and stuff as I run into them.
The first thing I'm running into is the "fight" stuff. To confirm, first off, can you "fight" your own stuff? It's a fringe case, I'd imagine, but mainly I'm looking at Atzocan Archer and his 1/4 stats + ETB fight, and thinking if so, he could be useful to trigger an enrage in some cases. Also, there's Pounce, which is instant (and does specify opponent's creature, making me think my assessment is right on that first card...). Can you, like, wait to declare blocker to block an attack with a creature, then have it fight with this before it dies to take something else out? (Assuming I understand the stack right it'd still die first if it would in the fight and then not deal damage to the creature it blocks, yeah, but could still prevent the attack coming your way?)
Edit: Ooh, but it lived through the fight and was a dinosaur, it could double down the enrage in that specific scenario, right?
The first thing I'm running into is the "fight" stuff. To confirm, first off, can you "fight" your own stuff? It's a fringe case, I'd imagine, but mainly I'm looking at Atzocan Archer and his 1/4 stats + ETB fight, and thinking if so, he could be useful to trigger an enrage in some cases. Also, there's Pounce, which is instant (and does specify opponent's creature, making me think my assessment is right on that first card...). Can you, like, wait to declare blocker to block an attack with a creature, then have it fight with this before it dies to take something else out? (Assuming I understand the stack right it'd still die first if it would in the fight and then not deal damage to the creature it blocks, yeah, but could still prevent the attack coming your way?)
Edit: Ooh, but it lived through the fight and was a dinosaur, it could double down the enrage in that specific scenario, right?
You are correct on the archer being able to ping one of your creatures to trigger enrage but be careful. When two creatures fight, your creature will still take the damage from the creature it is fighting. If you try to ping a creature that does 4 or more damage it will kill your archer.
If i understand your second scenario correctly you want to block an attacking creature, use pounce to fight another creature (attacking or not) and then not have the damage from the creature you are blocking come through? If so then yes that is the way it would work.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
the prevalence of fight on creatures is probably one of the reasons they are changing the way illusions work.
It's really difficult to explain to even enfranchised players that triggers trigger whether they want to or not and that if their illusion is the only valid target it will die because you have to target it yourself no matter if the ability is a may.
It's really difficult to explain to even enfranchised players that triggers trigger whether they want to or not and that if their illusion is the only valid target it will die because you have to target it yourself no matter if the ability is a may.
SigmasonicX
Member
If you have a 1/1 and your opponent has an 8/8 attacking trample creature, then you block and cast that spell, then the trample creature can still assign only 1 damage to your creature and 7 damage to you. The 1 damage will be prevented, but not the 7. Trample cares about "lethal damage", which is generally equal to toughness, not if the damage will actually do anything.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
trample only checks for theoretically lethal damage, even indestructible creatures are trampled over.
That also means deathtouch combined with trample, tramples over for everything but 1 damage per blocker
Trample means "assign lethal damage, then deal remaining damage to player." So it didn't change anything except the creature survives and doesn't take damage.
blindrocket
Member
What do you think about Grixis? I have no real opinion, but I liked the idea of the list. I haven't played Standard in forever and haven't played URx since Splinter Twin, so I'm not good at evaluating this. I saw this posted on FB today, could be jank though.
Okay, so I found the notes for the Ixalan cards on the Wizards sight that covers specific rulings, and this looks helpful.
Currently up to Costly Plunder, and it mentions that you can't sacrifice a treasure both to pay for the card's mana cost and for its additional cost. Buuut... does that mean you CAN use the treasure's effect and then sack it to pay for Costly Plunder, and the mana will still be added to your pool afterwards? If so, that's pretty neat...
(And thanks for the help/putting up with my lack of knowledge, guys! Seriously appreciate all the responses!)
Currently up to Costly Plunder, and it mentions that you can't sacrifice a treasure both to pay for the card's mana cost and for its additional cost. Buuut... does that mean you CAN use the treasure's effect and then sack it to pay for Costly Plunder, and the mana will still be added to your pool afterwards? If so, that's pretty neat...
(And thanks for the help/putting up with my lack of knowledge, guys! Seriously appreciate all the responses!)
No you cant because once you sac the treasure for mana to cast the card the treasure is no longer under your control so you will need a second treasure,artifact or creature to sacrifice.
You sacrifice a Treasure as a cost to get mana, meaning the Treasure disappears before you get your mana. You can't sac it again for anything else. Since the ability is a mana ability, you'll get to use the mana immediately after paying the cost, as oposed to other abilities which need to go on the stack first and can be responded to by other abilities or instants.
Familienoberhauptvogel
Banned
grixis is fine I don't think you have to go all in on it and can jut splash is almost for free off aether hub and similar.
I don't like this list for a couple reasons. Bolas is bad imo and it's not playing Scarab God for starters, 25 lands is low with 0 counters and only 4 opts, 3 glimmers (I've had constant land issues with 25 lands 4 opt 4 censor 4 glimmer), search for azcanta is a 2 mana do nothing card I don't think you can maindeck this with temur energy and red deck wins in the format.
This kind of deck would shit all over the control deck I build though as it's very greedy.