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Let's talk about Pennywise's powers. (Spoilers)

M

MogCakes

Member
Apparently, Pennywise is an eldritch multiverse interdimentional ancient god with 'psy' powers who supposedly is pure energy and able to destroy/consume worlds. Why is a being like that just chilling out in Maine and eating some kids every 27 years again?

I'm aware that Pennywise is something called a Were Spider, and may also be a character called the Crimson King in the Dark Tower macroverse. The lore behind Penny seems really over the top compared to the creature's actual role in its own story. In IT we see it showing off various forms/mind tricks and has sharp teeth, and revealing its true form to Beverly turns her into Snow White...but nothing about those displays informs its true nature. At most I could say its ability to alter the minds of the townsfolk of Derry into complicitness is pretty strong, but that is still nowhere near the apparent all-encompassing horrors it possesses as an eldritch abomination god. So what gives? If Pennywise is so strong and dangerous, why is it just messing around in a small town on Earth? Why would Stephen King write such a powerful entity only to use it in a setting where any meaningful use of its powers would kill everyone in the town off instantly?
 
O

Ogodei

Member
Doylist Explanation: because authors sometimes have a hard time grasping scale. Yes, what we're told about Pennywise is way over the top compared to what we're shown of it's actual abilities. Of course, once you get into the Ritual of Chuud side of things in the book it seems to be the part of the book that King wrote on coke (or something else), so perhaps he didn't give a fuck and was just freestyling whatever sounded cool, logic be damned.

Watsonian Explanation: It does most of what It does because it's fun. The hibernation cycle seems to be compulsory, but brute-forcing your way through your enemies isn't fun.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Pennywise is relatively weak here in this reality, and this should be considered a "node" of its greater reality that has punched through a weak part of our reality, a point where our reality is weakened by fear, and Pennywise strengthened by it. Occasionally he can do more, occasionally less. Presumably the limits of his power are variable as a result, and that imagery and metaphor are part of his feeding cycle.
 
S

SmokinGunZ1981

Member
It's been awhile since I've read the book but I don't remember it being apprant that it was a Were Spider. I've also never heard it speculated that IT was/is the Crimson King.
 
S

Seesaw15

Member
Because OP
6da082fbfafcf593d64799e9da4e11b4df2899b7459116a78e650d8b377a421f.jpg
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
BruceCLea said:
He gets his ass beat by a group of preteens. Doesn't seem that powerful.
Click to expand...

Only because the actual god of everything is working through them tho.

edit: Also IT is more than like a demon elemental of a(the?) beam, since it's feuding with the Turtle, not that he is CK himself.
 
A

Anoregon

The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
SmokinGunZ1981 said:
It's been awhile since I've read the book but I don't remember it being apprant that it was a Were Spider. I've also never heard it speculated that IT was/is the Crimson King.
Click to expand...

Yeah I think OP got confused. I've seen speculation that he's a servant of the crimson king, but not the king himself.
 
H

Herne

Member
Were Spider? I don't remember that being in the book (though admittedly it's been quite a while). The "spider" they confront is really only the thing that the Losers Club's human minds can process - it is impossible in this reality to see It's true form.
 
K

Kard8p3

Member
Oh yeah, also the only other creature similar to IT as we know of, as said by King himself is Dandelo.

Chojin said:
From what I understand IT is either related to Dandelo or is Dandelo from another reality. The physical manifestation if a spider honestly is King's I don't know how to finish this kind of thing.

Never heard of IT being the Crimson King. I mean Insomnia takes place in Derry and has Mike Hanlon and references the Crimson King but never made a connection IT was the King.

Pennywise the clown is more of a glamour. IT is probably some sort of demon related to Tak: Small time demons who think they big shits in tiny towns.
Click to expand...

Nah, King said they aren't the same being, just the same species. Some people like to think he's maybe one of IT's children.

I might be wrong but people think IT=Crimson King because of both of them dealing with deadlights at one point, but the Crimson King only does it to ascend to a higher level of the tower in Insomnia.
 
C

Chojin

Member
From what I understand IT is either related to Dandelo or is Dandelo from another reality. The physical manifestation if a spider honestly is King's I don't know how to finish this kind of thing.

Never heard of IT being the Crimson King. I mean Insomnia takes place in Derry and has Mike Hanlon and references the Crimson King but never made a connection IT was the King.

Pennywise the clown is more of a glamour. IT is probably some sort of demon related to Tak: Small time demons who think they big shits in tiny towns.
 
S

SmokinGunZ1981

Member
Herne said:
Were Spider? I don't remember that being in the book (though admittedly it's been quite a while). The "spider" they confront is really only the thing that the Losers Club's human minds can process - it is impossible in this reality to see It's true form.
Click to expand...

The Were Spider was from the Dark Tower series, even so I don't think it was ever indicated that it was the same species as Pennywise.

It's generally believed that Pennywiuse is the same species as Dandelo though, again another character from the Dark Tower series.
 
P

Prince of Space

Banned
MogCakes said:
Apparently, Pennywise is an eldritch multiverse interdimentional ancient god with 'psy' powers who supposedly is pure energy and able to destroy/consume worlds. Why is a being like that just chilling out in Maine and eating some kids every 27 years again?
Click to expand...

Because children are easy prey for It. It feeds on their fears and only really adopts the Pennywise disguise to entice them/lower their guard a bit.

It's also important to note that what we really learn of It's true form and nature mostly come from It itself, so there might be some exaggeration there.


Raptomex said:
Isn't IT a direct contrast to the Turtle? Good vs Evil or something like that?
Click to expand...

They're natural enemies, yes.
 
E

Experien

Member
MogCakes said:
Apparently, Pennywise is an eldritch multiverse interdimentional ancient god with 'psy' powers who supposedly is pure energy and able to destroy/consume worlds. Why is a being like that just chilling out in Maine and eating some kids every 27 years again?

I'm aware that Pennywise is something called a Were Spider, and may also be a character called the Crimson King in the Dark Tower macroverse. The lore behind Penny seems really over the top compared to the creature's actual role in its own story. In IT we see it showing off various forms/mind tricks and has sharp teeth, and revealing its true form to Beverly turns her into Snow White...but nothing about those displays informs its true nature. At most I could say its ability to alter the minds of the townsfolk of Derry into complicitness is pretty strong, but that is still nowhere near the apparent all-encompassing horrors it possesses as an eldritch abomination god. So what gives? If Pennywise is so strong and dangerous, why is it just messing around in a small town on Earth? Why would Stephen King write such a powerful entity only to use it in a setting where any meaningful use of its powers would kill everyone in the town off instantly?
Click to expand...

Maybe it just seems super powerful but in the grand scheme of things (like most eldritch things) it is really weak and didn't want to call attention to itself by doing big things so it doesn't get killed by "Cthulhu" etc?
 
M

mysocksarepink

Banned
I just looked it up

wtf

his archnemesis is a turtle?

"As bizarre as it may sound, Pennywise’s arch rival is a turtle! StephenKingWiki explains: “It’s natural enemy is The Turtle, another ancient Macroverse dweller who, eons ago, created our Universe and possibly others. The Turtle appears in King’s series The Dark Tower as Maturin, one of the Guardians of the Beam. The series suggests that It, along with the Turtle, are themselves creations of a separate, omnipotent creator referred to as “the Other” (who may be the entity Gan). The Turtle and It are eternal enemies in a battle of creation against consumption.”"

http://villains.wikia.com/wiki/It_(Stephen_King)

Stephen King's IT (novel)
“ The Turtle can't help you. „
~ IT to the children.
 
S

Sullichin

Member
Stinkles said:
Pennywise is relatively weak here in this reality, and this should be considered a "node" of its greater reality that has punched through a weak part of our reality, a point where our reality is weakened by fear, and Pennywise strengthened by it. Occasionally he can do more, occasionally less. Presumably the limits of his power are variable as a result, and that imagery and metaphor are part of his feeding cycle.
Click to expand...

I agree with this explanation.

Also he arrived on Derry before civilization and basically is harvesting it as his feeding ground. So I don't think he wants to destroy it even if he can.

Also he's definitely not the Crimson King. He may be the same species as a character named Dandelo in the Dark Tower who can also shape shift, make rooms seem different, and Dandelo feeds on laughter rather than fear.
 
I

Imbarkus

As Sartre noted in his contemplation on Hell in No Exit, the true horror is other members.
I think you might be going too literal with it.

Don't be to Stephen King what August Derleth was to H.P. Lovecraft.
 
C

Chmpocalypse

Blizzard
MogCakes said:
Apparently, Pennywise is an eldritch multiverse interdimentional ancient god with 'psy' powers who supposedly is pure energy and able to destroy/consume worlds. Why is a being like that just chilling out in Maine and eating some kids every 27 years again?

I'm aware that Pennywise is something called a Were Spider, and may also be a character called the Crimson King in the Dark Tower macroverse. The lore behind Penny seems really over the top compared to the creature's actual role in its own story. In IT we see it showing off various forms/mind tricks and has sharp teeth, and revealing its true form to Beverly turns her into Snow White...but nothing about those displays informs its true nature. At most I could say its ability to alter the minds of the townsfolk of Derry into complicitness is pretty strong, but that is still nowhere near the apparent all-encompassing horrors it possesses as an eldritch abomination god. So what gives? If Pennywise is so strong and dangerous, why is it just messing around in a small town on Earth? Why would Stephen King write such a powerful entity only to use it in a setting where any meaningful use of its powers would kill everyone in the town off instantly?
Click to expand...

The inscrutability of IT's motivations is very much in line with cosmic horror. The "but why?" of IT's interest in this small town is part of the draw. It makes no sense to us, yet we must know why, but never can.
 
S

SheSaidNo

Member
Yeah in the movie, the group of kids kinda just stood in a circle with some sticks and beat him up. I felt kinda embarrassed for him tbh.
 
D

Doctor Decimate

Member
Isn't there a chapter or two in the book where it just has a single-minded instinct to feed or something.

Like, "this thing has crazy mind powers" doesn't necessarily translate to "this thing has ambitions to take over the world" or something.
 
P

Prince of Space

Banned
Doctor Decimate said:
Isn't there a chapter or two in the book where it just has a single-minded instinct to feed or something.

Like, "this thing has crazy mind powers" doesn't necessarily translate to "this thing has ambitions to take over the world" or something.
Click to expand...

Pretty much.

It is only really interested in eating and sleeping, and Derry is It's own little secret stash.
 
P

Poppy

Member
because IT is a real asshole

i assume it just fucks with our reality for fun and does a small base level of fear consumption to stay around

i mean in the book it is kind of talking itself up like a comic book villian when the final confrontations hit iirc

SheSaidNo said:
Yeah in the movie, the group of kids kinda just stood in a circle with some sticks and beat him up. I felt kinda embarrassed for him tbh.
Click to expand...
that kind of reminds me of cabin in the woods where all the japanese children are like in a circle singing to beat their ghost and the controllers are all goddamnit
 
W

Wereroku

Member
I thought it was in Derry because that is where the kid was supposed to be born. Also why it hunts mostly children.
 
P

Poppy

Member
Isak_Borg said:
Man, are there any turtle references in IT?

It's def not the Crimson King since he's trapped in a damn tower.
Click to expand...
yeah it mentions the turtle plenty in the book, mostly in the adult section if i recall. dunno if they will keep it for the movie since it gets pretty coked up

like you can make sense of that King is writing but at the same time you just are like...uhh yeah okayyyy
 
N

NoblesseOblige

Banned
I went to see the new IT and it was the first iteration of the story I have seen in full. Curious I looked up more about Pennywise afterwards and my eyes glazed over when I began to read how he's some multidimensional being. It quickly makes the character and story completely asinine so I am going to ignore the larger King universe.
 
I

Isak_Borg

Member
Poppy said:
yeah it mentions the turtle plenty in the book, mostly in the adult section if i recall. dunno if they will keep it for the movie since it gets pretty coked up

like you can make sense of that King is writing but at the same time you just are like...uhh yeah okayyyy
Click to expand...

I know the mythology is kind of convoluted but I loved putting all of kings work together and noticing how a lot of the dark tower stuff is tied to his other books.

Insomnia being my fav king book got even deeper after I read the dark tower.

Edit: Isn't there a IT reference in Insomnia?
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
Derry provides plenty of food for it in an area where people are less likely to take notice, and straight up ignore it when combined with its own abilities. Its physical form limits it substantially though. Plus it was there before Derry and just kinda stuck around

asagami_ said:
In the new movie?
Yes: in the lake and before the first time Bill encounters to PennyGeorge.
Click to expand...

And
the Lego turtle
 
P

Phased

Member
As has been mentioned a few times, King was extremely into Coke at the time which is why a lot of this stuff is pretty far out there, don't think too hard about it.

His best work is from his drug days, but a lot of it is pretty nuts.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
As to why it's were it is, eating kids: IIRC from the book, It ripped through the fabric that separates our universe from Its, crashed on Earth some undetermined time ago, and Derry was built atop where it landed. It's heavily implied the original Derry settlers woke It up and It killed them all (all 90+ settlers vanished at once).

It eats kids because it likes the taste of fear, It says it "salts the meat" in the book. Given It's shape-shifting and reality altering abilities, It preys on children as they are most easily frightened and thus tastier. And less likely to fight back.

Among It's weaknesses is getting bound into the form it chooses to take to attack the kids, making It vulnerable. Something It doesn't seem to realize until the Losers Club fuck it up.
 
M

MC Safety

Member
SheSaidNo said:
Yeah in the movie, the group of kids kinda just stood in a circle with some sticks and beat him up. I felt kinda embarrassed for him tbh.
Click to expand...

The movie condenses a lot and changes scenes to make them more palatable for an audience that hasn't read the book.

The correct answer is it's possible to read too much into a book. It is a great story, but it was an extended drug trip and not all of it can be easily described or explained. In the book, It is a supernatural force, but for all its power it simply can't beat the bond between seven friends.
 
I

Isak_Borg

Member
MC Safety said:
The movie condenses a lot and changes scenes to make them more palatable for an audience that hasn't read the book.

The correct answer is it's possible to read too much into a book. It is a great story, but it was an extended drug trip and not all of it can be easily described or explained. In the book, It is a supernatural force, but for all its power it simply can't beat the bond between seven friends.
Click to expand...

Well, if you go with the mythology they basically formed a KA TET which is powered by KA and pretty much means it was pre-ordained that IT would lose.
 
M

Matsukaze

Member
GhaleonEB said:
Among It's weaknesses is getting bound into the form it chooses to take to attack the kids, making It vulnerable. Something It doesn't seem to realize until the Losers Club fuck it up.
Click to expand...
Yup yup. One of the things the book stresses is that It is bound by the laws of whatever reality it currently inhabits, however unnatural its existence may be to human sensibilities.
 
P

Parmadillo Marshmallow

Member
The bigger problem I have is that of the Turtle. The Turtle was never explained as "not really a turtle but that's the closest our puny human minds can grasp" in the way that IT was. The Turtle was a turtle. Turtles evolved on Earth (an insignificant speck in the current Universe) after millions of years. How the fuck would a turtle be the source of the Universe? The only thing I can think of has already been said by the great Rick James. I don't think King really thought these through that carefully, to be honest.
 
Haunted

Haunted

Member
Kard8p3 said:
Only because the actual god of everything is working through them tho.
Click to expand...
Wait, It is about the Christian god fighting against an Eldritch demon?

I thought it was about a scary clown killing kids.

No joke, I've been actually completely unaware of this angle for all these years, always thought pennywise was just a serial killer who liked to dress up as a clown.
 
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