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Edge: "Nintendo Direct - promises, promises"
- Thread starter Zia
- Start date
Visualante2
Member
Did you ever listen to old Retronauts?I think Chris has become bitter and jaded over the years.
leatherhat
Member
I care very little for yoshi and wind waker, but FExSMT and monoliths soft new project (as well as bayonetta 2) are definitely hardware buying games for me
AndrewDean84xX
Banned
Yup. The article and some posts here only clarify that gamers are never happy.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Maybe people didn't want Nintendo's long term vision to be "same old shit"
mugurumakensei
Member
SMT x FE, Yoshi U, and X are "same old shit"?
JavelinRobin
Banned
This argument gets weaker and weaker the longer the currently established mega IPs (outside Nintendo) live. Just because Mario/Samus/Link is in a game doesn't mean it's a carbon copy if the past 25 years.
GiantBreadbug
Member
It would have to be shit in the first place for your statement to be valid.
Oh my God
You mean like how Sony & MS bring out multple sequels to their own franchises?
Juniors are funny. Interested in completly derailing and not even have watched what we are talking about.
The smartest thing Nintendo has ever done the last couple of years is doing Iwata Asks and Nintendo Direct. They could never please Western journalists in any reasonable way.
I would argue MS and Sony would equally benefit doing this too honestly. Take the key away from the gatekeepers.
I would argue MS and Sony would equally benefit doing this too honestly. Take the key away from the gatekeepers.
Green Yoshi
Member
If Super Mario Universe and Mario Kart U will be released this holiday season, WiiU will sell very good.
I don't get this. Every single publisher has its stable of franchises they keep releasing sequels of, because they sell a lot of copies. That allows them to launch new IPs. Heck Microsoft hasn't released anything "new" in years (they will have new things coming with their new console of course). There's nothing bad about it as long as the games are good.
This is true for some. But at the same time the teams behind the next 3D Mario, Zelda, Mario Kart etc, can't develop two games at a time. You either get the solid new entries to their trusty old IP's or put the masters on new projects which is risky...
And many people want a new 3D Mario, Zelda and Mario Kart :b
Always-honest
Banned
Well, i have to agree hat it all seemed a bit desperate, but i couldn't be happier with all these announcements.
I even think he dropped a little bomb on his employees. I'm afraid it will be hellish busy times for the people working on those titles...
Most things shown were either very rough (zelda WW HD, Xenoblade 2) or there wasn't even anything to see at all (SSB-U, fire Emblem, etc). Very unlike Nintendo to spill that many beans at once. 3D Mario and Mario Kart playable a E3... Well, i still doubt it to be honest.
But Edge clearly sounds a bit biased here. It was better than last E3's combined.
I even think he dropped a little bomb on his employees. I'm afraid it will be hellish busy times for the people working on those titles...
Most things shown were either very rough (zelda WW HD, Xenoblade 2) or there wasn't even anything to see at all (SSB-U, fire Emblem, etc). Very unlike Nintendo to spill that many beans at once. 3D Mario and Mario Kart playable a E3... Well, i still doubt it to be honest.
But Edge clearly sounds a bit biased here. It was better than last E3's combined.
Price cuts i can understand..
But announcing games is desperate now?
As I understand EAD Tokyo now has two teams
Either you don't, or you actually think the games that were announced yesterday are never going to come out. Either way, it's ridiculous.
Right? I'm so sick of X and The Wonderful 101 every year. And a new Yoshi game? The last one was only 15 years ago. That's like Call of Duty levels of flooding the market. And if I get one more Shin Megami Tensei and Fire Emblem crossover I'm just going to explode.
Not to mention no hint about what 3rd party offerings will be revealed (though it will obviously be considerably less than the new Sony and Microsoft systems) and what Retro is up to.
I am hoping for at least one good big 3rd party title in addition to Retro's title being revealed at E3 as well. Maybe it won't be enough to combat the Sony and Microsoft new system megatons but it will keep Nintendo relevant.
SpeedySwaf
Member
Yeah, I have trouble with the "same old" stuff myself. You know that a lot of people who say this will be the same ones buying the next CoD.
To put it in perspective, between 2006 and 2012, we've had two console LoZ games: Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.
In that same period of time, we've had:
2006: COD3
2007: COD4
2008: COD:WaW
2009: Modern Warfare 2
2010: COD:BO
2011: Modern Warefare 3
2012: COD:BO2
Over three times the number of CoD games in that same period, but it's LoZ that's getting old. I don't think people realize that a lot of Nintendo's biggest games aren't once-a-year franchises.
To put it in perspective, between 2006 and 2012, we've had two console LoZ games: Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword.
In that same period of time, we've had:
2006: COD3
2007: COD4
2008: COD:WaW
2009: Modern Warfare 2
2010: COD:BO
2011: Modern Warefare 3
2012: COD:BO2
Over three times the number of CoD games in that same period, but it's LoZ that's getting old. I don't think people realize that a lot of Nintendo's biggest games aren't once-a-year franchises.
Captain Smoker
Member
Juniors sure are brave these days...
As well, I'm one of the people who honestly doesn't understand this argument. With only a few exceptions (Mario Party in 6th gen for example) Nintendo is quite restrained with sequels, rarely releasing more than one or two mainline entries on a platform. As well, the most recent Nintendo Direct surely is the worst example of your so called 'same old shit', there are new IPs (Wonderful 101), a sequel to a game that wasn't on a Nintendo platform (Bayonetta 2), a crossover featuring a series that hasn't been on Nintendo home consoles for many years (SMT x FE), even Pikmin has only two previous entries in the series and they were both on the GC.
Sales have indicated some cod fatigue I think.
However Zelda is a nearly thirty year old franchise that hasn't really changed a whole lot since the 3D era. Not knocking it but I can see people being fatigued over it. Just like Mario Kart or a number of Nintendo franchises.
SpeedySwaf
Member
This. The only exception as of late is Pokemon, which has new titles, remakes and spin offs every year, but other than that you're lucky to see more than one console title in a franchise every console generation.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Microsoft don't define a console by themselves. Nintendo are the only company who are going to release games of note for Wii U, so the emphasis is on them to release exciting new titles rather than just release videos saying "Yes we are working on the titles you know we're working on"
The bulk of the "big" announcements is "yes, Mario Kart is coming". "Yes, a new Wii Party game is coming". "Yes, a new 3D Mario is coming". "Yes, a new Zelda is coming". It's very difficult to get excited about the concept of a sequel we all knew was coming. I'm sure when Mario is shown, it'll look good and I'll be excited for it. But just saying "it is coming" is completely meaningless.
I agree that´s the reason I stopped visiting sites run by "gaming journalists" years ago. If I want to know different opinions on the internet or to discuss I just visit a forum.
Captain Smoker
Member
Zelda is the franchise that changed the most.
Ocarina of Time: First 3D Zelda.
Majora's Mask: 3-day-play-system + mask-system + new world
Wind Waker: Suddenly, you're in a big sea, sailing on a boat + totally new artstyle
Twilight Princess: Ocarina of Time + wolf gameplay + twilight world
Skyward Sword: New artstyle + WiiMotion+Gameplay + Flying + New World
Name a single series that old (or new) that had that much changes.
Of course, there are elemental things like dungeons, triforce, etc., but that's the essence of Zelda. And they wan't to change this too.
I think for someone like me I'm old enough to be at a point where im like "oh so you're big budget first party titles this gen are another Mario, Zelda, smash brothers, mario kart, a side scroller featuring a nintendo character etc. just like you did on the wii, and the GameCube, and the n64 and the Super Nintendo...they just haven't really stepped out of their comfort zone, well, ever really, and eventually I have personally gotten to the point, some years back, where I looked elsewhere and every time I gaze back at Nintendo I'm like "oh, I see, its the same thing with some new mechanics and paint."
Of course since the N64 I always buy one late into the gen and marathon the games that really blew fans away. But after that I put it away and don't ever revisit.
Could have fooled me.
Kacho
Gold Member
I agree with what you say about the Legend of Zelda and Mario Kart. They really need to shake things up with both franchises on the Wii U.
Thankfully, Eiji Aonuma said there will be a new design philosophy for the next Legend of Zelda title. I'm really looking forward to see what changes they are going to make.
Mario Kart though...man. I don't think I can buy another one. My interest in that series has fallen hard. Nintendo will have to make some pretty drastic changes to the overall formula to get me excited again.
Schnozberry
Member
I can't blame people for not getting the same charge out of new Zelda and Mario releases as they were in the past. Mario especially appears in so many side concepts that you don't even realize that almost all of the mainline games have been fantastic. They definitely abuse the character more than I would if I were in charge of Nintendo, but I think it's a bit disingenuous for people to claim that other companies with franchises that reach similar levels of recognition don't do many of the same things.
Unless something truly novel appears to set the new games apart, they do get repetitive and uninspired. That isn't to say they aren't polished, but without new ground broken it just doesn't feel worth the price of admission. I thought Mario Galaxy was a great change of pace. Mario Galaxy 2 was light on new ideas, but still very good. I hope they have some new concepts that leverage the gamepad and make it immediately apparent that the next game is worth a release day purchase. As far as Zelda goes, it seemed to me that Aonuma was sincere in his efforts to reform some of the major sticking points people have with the game. Maybe they swing and miss, who knows, but I am encouraged by the willingness to at least break from some of the more repetitive gameplay concepts of the series.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
The problem is for Nintendo genre = character. If they just made a Zelda style game that isn't based on the Zelda world, it'd be a lot more interesting. But they're so obsessed with clinging to IPs to sell a game rather than the other way around.
I've played all of them and it still feels like Zelda. Different paint and a few new mechanical wrenches or changes with each iteration. Like I said, it's cool some people are still blown away by them and love them. Me personally, I haven't been able to finish one since ocarina of time. That's just personal experience.
Zelda, the world, the characters, most of the gameplay choices and changes over the years and the underlying staples just don't interest me anymore after almost thirty years. Same with most Nintendo characters. I've seen many for 30 years and I'm over it. I understand that many growing up haven't so their still fresh, but eventually after eating the same few chicken dishes for twenty years(Nintendo) you want to branch out and try some new dishes(other companies and IPs)
I'm to the point in my life where gaming time is limited and I want fresh and new ideas and games. I don't want to rehash the same franchises for another thirty years and that's why I've mostly abandoned Nintendo. That's because with PC, Sony and to a lesser extent Microsoft, each generation has brought a slew of new franchises and experiences from both 1st, 2nd and third party developers. But if those companies started rehashing their same franchises every generation for almost thirty years I'd most certainly get tired of hearing about them and playing them as well.
For instance I loved dark souls, crackdown, god of war, elder scrolls, fallout, xenoblade and many others, but release two a generation for thirty years and half way through I'm probably going to just say to myself I've had enough. Enough of the setting, characters, underlying gameplay(even if things are changed up a bit and re-kiltered). Heck I'm already pretty tired of halo, gears of war(didnt bother with 3), cod, GTA amongst many.
Schnozberry
Member
There is a lot that can be done with the Zelda IP to make it more interesting. Making it non-linear and more multiplayer friendly (I'm thinking gamepad asymmetry and not MMO style multiplayer) will go a long way to make the game feel a little more fresh. HD will go a long ways as well, by creating game worlds that feel much more alive. I don't think Nintendo creating another fantasy rpg will do much for them. Monolith seems to be doing a pretty bang up job of that already.
That's because they're Zelda.
Which is my point. Eventually you just say to yourself " I've had my fill of these characters, settings and gameplay style and I'm ready for something different."
And then you play something different. Zelda's not the only game. If you want to play something that isn't Zelda, play something that isn't Zelda. That doesn't mean Zelda has to become not-Zelda.
evilromero
Member
No guarantee of that. New Mario Wii U didn't spur excitement for the system like many, not me, thought it would. Why would a 3D Mario?
Until we have proper saturation in the genre Zelda represents, I am more than content on Zelda team creating more Zelda games.
I think at the end of the day, if you're looking at that ND event objectively, most of it felt like "yeah sorry about that, but stuff is coming, alright?"
This is especially disturbing coming from the undisputed leader from last gen, who decided to come up with their mini-E3 kind of events. So ye, people are going to watch them very closely, and reasonably be quite critical. Same thing happened with Sony and the PS3.
This is especially disturbing coming from the undisputed leader from last gen, who decided to come up with their mini-E3 kind of events. So ye, people are going to watch them very closely, and reasonably be quite critical. Same thing happened with Sony and the PS3.
Barkley's Justice
Member
pages and pages of hurt feelings
H_Prestige
Banned
3D mario and mario kart will sell systems. Not enough to make a big impact, but they will sell systems as they are proven franchises with strong following. But MK U will sell no where near as much as MK wii since it won't have the expanded casual audience this time and will fall in line with previous MK games. The growth MK Wii achieved had nothing to do with the characters on the box, it was because the wii sports/fit crowd wanted the "driving app" for their new wii toy. Nintendo could have made it Wii Kart with Mii characters instead and it would have still sold over 20 million.
NSMB was never a system selling franchise. And that's before you consider the franchise fatigue NSMB U is facing, and the fact that each NSMB game requires a different system to play. I kept saying that before launch, that it wouldn't do much to move hardware but everyone was too stuck on the 25 million+ sales numbers to think clearly.
NSMB was definitely a system seller. The first one.
Flakster99
Member
If anyone truly believes that Nintendo is releasing "the same shit", and "often", do you think Sony and Microsoft would act differently? You bet your ass Microsoft and Sony would LOVE to have the selling power and brand recognition of Mario, Zelda, etc. on their respective consoles and if you think otherwise you're on crack.
As to the quality of Mario, Zelda, etc, and what each of us takes away from their games, to each their own. I hope Nintendo doesn't listen to their fanbase (self included) and continue pushing their agenda at their pace.
As to the quality of Mario, Zelda, etc, and what each of us takes away from their games, to each their own. I hope Nintendo doesn't listen to their fanbase (self included) and continue pushing their agenda at their pace.