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4Tran · Apr 21, 2017

Akuun said:
There is political intrigue in the series, but I think it's rarely central to the story the way it often is in GoT. The political intrigue in WoT is something that runs alongside the main story in WoT, while it's the main meat in GoT. There are many instances in WoT where you could ignore the political stuff entirely and just enjoy the action.

I don't think that the political intrigue in the Wheel of Time is any less important than in a Song of Ice and Fire. The difference is that it's mostly less in your face in the former than it is in the latter. What I'm talking about is how all of the different factions vie against one another, how you can't be sure of a lot of characters' loyalties, and all of the betrayals that take place.

hythloday said:
I could have just read the first book and would have been perfectly happy. It had a nice story, I liked the characters, it kept me interested, and then it ended. I read the rest of the series and loved it, but if you're looking to just get your feet wet, there's no harm in stopping early. If I had one moment from Book 1 I wanted to see on TV, it would be

Moiraine's "weep for Manetheren" speech from the Two Rivers after the first Trolloc attacks. Put a good actress on that and I'd get choked up.

I'm not as much of a fan of the first book, but that part was pretty great. The one scene I'd want to see is in book 7 -

Swovan Night; when Mat finally figures out who Birgitte is.

Mighty Chin · Apr 22, 2017

Hari Seldon said:
Some (fantasy) casting ideas over at Tor. The article does point out that the first season especially is going to be whitewashed to all hell if you follow the descriptions in the books.

Some minor WoT spoilers in here.

http://www.tor.com/2017/04/20/casting-ideas-for-the-new-wheel-of-time-tv-series/

The casting for Lan is fucking perfect tho.

I don't like that casting for LAN at all. LAN needs to be much much bigger. The casting seems a bit old for my likes but I can see the issues with casting these roles. Iiked Mats choice though.

Dreamwriter · Apr 22, 2017

Khoryos said:
Are we just pretending the daily spankings don't happen?

You mean the super special case where they tried to break a particular character through physical and mental torture? That's not remotely BDSM.

Khoryos · Apr 22, 2017

Dreamwriter said:
You mean the super special case where they tried to break a particular character through physical and mental torture? That's not remotely BDSM.

What you call "physical and mental torture" I call "spanking and humiliation".

havokex · Apr 22, 2017

I wonder how many braid tugs we'll be getting per episode................ and chin raising

hey_monkey · Apr 22, 2017

Khoryos said:
What you call "physical and mental torture" I call "spanking and humiliation".

I mean, it's not BDSM. We throw that around a lot and we shouldn't; words mean things. But it is definitely sexualized for the reader, and occasionally for the characters, too - there's a hell of a lot of spanking. It's also THE way to break women in the book, whether enacted by men or other women, and that's pretty infantilizing and shitty, looking back.

NiiloPielinen · Apr 24, 2017

Dreamwriter said:
You mean the super special case where they tried to break a particular character through physical and mental torture? That's not remotely BDSM.

That wasn't special case, it was happening much more than just a one case.

Some guy actually counted how many time words naked and switch appear in the books:
http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/76679-the-rise-and-fall-of-nudity-in-the-wot/

The Eye of the World - 2 " naked", 3 "switch"
The Great Hunt - 9 " naked", 9 "switch"
The Dragon Reborn - 8 " naked", 8 "switch"
The Shadow Rising - 17 " naked", 9 "switch"
The Fires of Heaven - 33 " naked", 16 "switch"
Lord of Chaos - 10 " naked", 8 "switch"
A Crown of Swords - 13 " naked", 12 "switch"
The Path of Daggers - 6 " naked", 13 "switch"
Winter's Heart - 9 " naked", 13 "switch"
The Crossroads of Twilight - 6 " naked", 14 "switch"
Knife of Dreams - 3 " naked", 17 "switch"
The Gathering Storm - 4 " naked", 14 "switch"
Towers of Midnight - 10 " naked", 0 "switch"

massoluk · Apr 24, 2017

havokex said:
I wonder how many braid tugs we'll be getting per episode................ and chin raising

With arms beneath their breasts

Patryn · Apr 24, 2017

hey_monkey said:
I mean, it's not BDSM. We throw that around a lot and we shouldn't; words mean things. But it is definitely sexualized for the reader, and occasionally for the characters, too - there's a hell of a lot of spanking. It's also THE way to break women in the book, whether enacted by men or other women, and that's pretty infantilizing and shitty, looking back.

If we're talking BDSM, the whole "collaring" thing introduced in Book 2 always kind of weirded me out.

massoluk · Apr 24, 2017

Khoryos said:
Are we just pretending the daily spankings don't happen?

NiiloPielinen said:
I certainly seem to remember a shit ton of spanking and switching, especially when they were trying to break Egwene.

I thought that was done with about same amount of subtlety as the early wonder woman stories by her creator.

AxeMan said:
Didn't Faile and her cohort all have to walk around naked as well when captured?

Patryn said:
If we're talking BDSM, the whole "collaring" thing introduced in Book 2 always kind of weirded me out.

Have I been unintentionally reading Fifty Shades of Aiel?

hey_monkey · Apr 24, 2017

massoluk said:
With arms beneath their breasts

Okay, but listen, I'm gonna defend this one. Crossing your arms over your breasts looks defensive. Under is a stronger pose.

All the other tics are dumb though.

NekoFever · Apr 24, 2017

Patryn said:
If we're talking BDSM, the whole "collaring" thing introduced in Book 2 always kind of weirded me out.

I've only read the first two books, but after getting through The Great Hunt and later hearing that there's borderline BDSM stuff in the series, that book made a lot of sense.

Spikematic · Apr 24, 2017

Read very detailed summaries of the first 3 books over the weekend. I remember having a great time reading them like 8-10 years ago. Just 6 more summaries to go and then I can start book 10 properly!

NiiloPielinen · Apr 24, 2017

Patryn said:
If we're talking BDSM, the whole "collaring" thing introduced in Book 2 always kind of weirded me out.

Oh yes, a literal leash on someone who is unable to do anything her master doesn't want. Nope, no subtext here at all.

e_i · Apr 24, 2017

Can't wait to hear the phrase "Wool-headed idiot" said a million times over.

NandoGip · Apr 25, 2017

massoluk said:
Have I been unintentionally reading Fifty Shades of Aiel?

When you put it that way it sounds like if you blend GoT, Harry Potter, and 50 Shades together to make the WoT show it would probably be a huge hit

Wowfunhappy · Apr 25, 2017

Spikematic said:
Read very detailed summaries of the first 3 books over the weekend. I remember having a great time reading them like 8-10 years ago. Just 6 more summaries to go and then I can start book 10 properly!

You might want to just keep reading the summaries through book 10 as well...

massoluk said:
With arms beneath their breasts

This one annoys me so freaking much, if only because it's just really bad writing on a super basic level. Say: "She crossed her arms." Obviously, she has breasts, so if she's crossing her arms, where else would they freaking be?

Unless the intention is to remind us that she has breasts. Just in case we, like, forgot or something, I guess.

hey_monkey said:
Okay, but listen, I'm gonna defend this one. Crossing your arms over your breasts looks defensive. Under is a stronger pose.

If you have boobs, why on earth would you cross your arms over them. That's a completely unnatural and uncomfortable pose.

Akuun · Apr 25, 2017

4Tran said:
I don't think that the political intrigue in the Wheel of Time is any less important than in a Song of Ice and Fire. The difference is that it's mostly less in your face in the former than it is in the latter. What I'm talking about is how all of the different factions vie against one another, how you can't be sure of a lot of characters' loyalties, and all of the betrayals that take place.

Oh, it's definitely important in the sense that it is often political stuff that results in big actions or decisions that move the plot forward. But what I mean is that the political stuff is not my main source of enjoyment when reading the series. IMO, and this might be just me, WoT's strength is not in its ability to make unexpected and clever plot twists like GoT does, but rather from seeing something coming from a fairly long way away (oftentimes prophesied), but then watching it play out in a very flashy and satisfying way. I read WoT not because I want to see what cunning plans someone has in mind, but because I want to see cool flashy shit happening.

I read Wheel of Time for its action, not its intrigue. On the other hand, I read GoT for its intrigue, not its action.

Have I been unintentionally reading Fifty Shades of Aiel?

While in retrospect there is a lot of nudity and spanking in WoT, the series always avoids getting explicit, so it's not as bad as this thread makes it sound. It's not like GoT where there are explicit sex scenes or detailed descriptions of nudity. There are sex scenes, but the depictions are more like "couple starts passionately kissing > fade to black > scene after the deed is done". Nothing explicit.

4Tran · Apr 25, 2017

Wowfunhappy said:
This one annoys me so freaking much, if only because it's just really bad writing on a super basic level. Say: "She crossed her arms." Obviously, she has breasts, so if she's crossing her arms, where else would they freaking be?

Unless the intention is to remind us that she has breasts. Just in case we, like, forgot or something, I guess.

I don't think that there's anything wrong with adding a few words to help visualize an action.

Akuun said:
Oh, it's definitely important in the sense that it is often political stuff that results in big actions or decisions that move the plot forward. But what I mean is that the political stuff is not my main source of enjoyment when reading the series. IMO, and this might be just me, WoT's strength is not in its ability to make unexpected and clever plot twists like GoT does, but rather from seeing something coming from a fairly long way away (oftentimes prophesied), but then watching it play out in a very flashy and satisfying way. I read WoT not because I want to see what cunning plans someone has in mind, but because I want to see cool flashy shit happening.

I read Wheel of Time for its action, not its intrigue. On the other hand, I read GoT for its intrigue, not its action.

I think that it can also be fair to say the very opposite about the two series. For example, one of a Dance of Dragons' weakest points was the political intrigue in Meereen while one of the most enjoyable parts of the Wheel of Time was all of Verin's machinations. People read books for different things, and I don't think that this personal taste is a good reason to say that one series is characterized by intrigue while the other is not. It's a lot more fair to say that political intrigue plays a role in both stories and that it's a bit more prevalent in a Song of Ice and Fire.

Akuun · Apr 25, 2017

4Tran said:
I think that it can also be fair to say the very opposite about the two series. For example, one of a Dance of Dragons' weakest points was the political intrigue in Meereen while one of the most enjoyable parts of the Wheel of Time was all of Verin's machinations. People read books for different things, and I don't think that this personal taste is a good reason to say that one series is characterized by intrigue while the other is not. It's a lot more fair to say that political intrigue plays a role in both stories and that it's a bit more prevalent in a Song of Ice and Fire.

Yup, fair enough.

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