ThoseDeafMutes
Member
But the debate wasn't about whether their actions were justified or not, it was about whether it was the wrong thing to do, or whether it was the wrong thing to do, and also genocide. I don't think you can call that a success.
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The most godawful Star Trek moments (with spoilers and gifs)
- Thread starter Mama Robotnik
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But the debate wasn't about whether their actions were justified or not, it was about whether it was the wrong thing to do, or whether it was the wrong thing to do, and also genocide. I don't think you can call that a success.
Stupid? No. Less interesting? Yes.
Functioning replicators make a crippled Voyager limping home an impossibility. Hole in the ship? No problem. Just replicate some new hull pieces.
Now, if Voyager had had their replicators permanently destroyed like The Equinox did, then it would have been a different story.
Guardian Bob
Member
Also, there was a Voyager episode where they meet dinosaurs from Earth who travel in space now. LOL!
Captain Tuttle
Member
Mama Robotnik, have you outdone yourself?
You've outdone yourself.
You've outdone yourself.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Yeah, Voyager was a fantastic premise with a botched execution. An actual desperate ship running on rations and fleeing from fights would have been amazing.
That episode isn't too terrible. For a voyager episode.
Basically Mama Robotnik just reminded me how Voyager killed the franchise. The awesome premise that was completely squandered, the lack of any character development, the constant reset buttons, the utter neutering of previously complex villains... just a dreadful, completely safe show.
And maybe it would have been at least bearable with some likable characters, but beyond the Doctor and Seven, they were all charisma blackholes. And to top it off, leading them was Janeway, who was an inconsistently-written, self-righteous dick.
We still haven't gotten a proper Trek since the TNG finale (or First Contact if that counts).
And maybe it would have been at least bearable with some likable characters, but beyond the Doctor and Seven, they were all charisma blackholes. And to top it off, leading them was Janeway, who was an inconsistently-written, self-righteous dick.
We still haven't gotten a proper Trek since the TNG finale (or First Contact if that counts).
Battersea Power Station
Member
JoshuaJSlone
Member
The Delta Flyer(s) bugged me, too. Not only do they have the ability to build shuttles out there, apparently this small crew can design and build a better shuttle in their spare time in a few weeks.
It does rub the wrong way that we only see them in the Mirror Universe. Worth noting there are quite a few gay characters in spinoff novels and such. Including Hawk, one of the Enterprise officers from First Contact who didn't survive the movie.
My problem with Janeway's hologram love was that she ran into a holoocharacter she kind of liked, then made modifications to him and deleted his wife.Qasiel said:
On the other hand, I think it is very very very very bad.Jason Raize '75 - '04 said:
They've done bad evolution before, though the other most egregious use of it was in a Voyager episode that is generally considered to be a lot better otherwise so they let it slide. They're in the holodeck and ask it to extrapolate what some creature would look like after millions of years of evolution. That's a pretty tall order!ckohler said:
Obviously not canon and the real reason is just because they wanted something for Geordi to do, but I read a TNG book that tried to speak to this. It basically had Picard shortly before taking command of the Enterprise being impressed by the way junior officer Geordi had slaved away at a shuttlecraft after Picard had made some minor complaints, wanting to snipe him for his own crew, but already having a full enginering roster so sticking him elsewhere for the time being.MC Safety said:
Oh god, just had a crazy thought: What if someone's plan was to leave Data and Geordi sitting in front of the captain while Wesley ended up in charge of engineering?DrForester said:
That was a different episode called "Angel One", which had the matriarchalwas society.
Code of Honor was the one where it was literally space Africans. The director was fired, too, because he deliberately casted all the aliens to be black.
While it's obvious some homophobes in power kept any main characters from being gay, it's a bit of a misnomer to say there's no one gay. Someone already posted:
But they also had bisexual Kira and lesbian Ezri in the mirror universe.
AND the actor behind Garak was told to tone down his homosexual campiness, but in interviews he said he played him to be somewhat bisexual (as an alien can be).
So it was DS9 that managed to slip homosexuals by the censors after all.
The worst Trek is still "Conspiracy," though. An ALIENS ripoff and vomit-inducing horror-movie gore? Completely against any positive message that Trek tried to have. There's bad, and then there's things that actually make you SICK.
Even the worst Voyager is better.
Kirk versus "God" doesn't really belong on the list. That wasn't the godawful part. A strange angry alien posing as a "God" makes much more sense than does a planet at the centre of the galaxy, and them traversing tens of thousands of light years in a few hours/days to get there.
Neoriceisgood
Member
The more I read about star trek, the more I realise the 2-3 things I've seen are the worst of the worst.
I've seen three star trek things in my life:
Thershold.
That one movie with the people who hate technology.
That episode with the Q gods being outsmarted so easily.
And all were absolutely idiotic.
I've seen three star trek things in my life:
Thershold.
That one movie with the people who hate technology.
That episode with the Q gods being outsmarted so easily.
And all were absolutely idiotic.
Henchmen21
Banned
All spots should go to J.J. Trek. Total Abortion of a movie and a disgrace to the name trek and considering that has to go up against Voyager & Enterprise, that's saying alot.
Yes...I always hated that episode. Completely fucking stupid. Even if this Progenitor race had seeded these worlds eons ago, the different evolutionary paths would not have made them look so similar. Besides, we didn't need an explanation for why they did. Just like I don't need an explanation why aliens look human in Dr. Who or any other sci-fi show. This was just anal retentiveness in the extreme.
Just another reason why I think DS9 is shit.
Yes...I always hated that episode. Completely fucking stupid. Even if this Progenitor race had seeded these worlds eons ago, the different evolutionary paths would not have made them look so similar. Besides, we didn't need an explanation for why they did. Just like I don't need an explanation why aliens look human in Dr. Who or any other sci-fi show. This was just anal retentiveness in the extreme.
Just another reason why I think DS9 is shit.
Vulcan was alien and interesting.
Henchmen21
Banned
No he wasn't. He was an emo.
...I was referring to the planet.
Ronald D Moore's commentary on the gay character thing is interesting, in that it makes me think of BSG and how they seemed to run into the same problem. Which makes me think it's a network issue rather than anything on the creative side necessarily. The only exploration of a gay (or bisexual) character in BSG was in the web episodes. In the TV episodes afterward the relationship there was never addressed directly AFAIK (?)
Also, awesome OP. Very enjoyable.
Also, awesome OP. Very enjoyable.
Henchmen21
Banned
Meh. Still not interesting. STIII was more interesting than that. Hell, I felt it was more interesting the short time we see it on screen in STIV than that entire bs movie.
British Monsoon
Member
That final episode of Enterprise was irredeemably awful. They should have just made it into an episode of Quantum Leap, with Archer/Beckett trying to figure out what he needs to do to leap home, lol.
Also, I remember one OS Trek episode, Bread & Circuses, I think, where the crew land on a planet that's distinctly Roman-esque - there are two factions, the Roman-likes and the slaves, who are 'sun worshippers'. Kirk & co. inevitably side with the slaves and help them win their freedom - it's at this point that Kirk discovers that they don't worship the 'sun', but rather a 'son', the son of God, and declares how grand it is that Christianity has spread among the stars (with no obvious or explainable means). It wasn't a bad episode, I just found that to be an unnecessary piece of evangelism.
Also, I remember one OS Trek episode, Bread & Circuses, I think, where the crew land on a planet that's distinctly Roman-esque - there are two factions, the Roman-likes and the slaves, who are 'sun worshippers'. Kirk & co. inevitably side with the slaves and help them win their freedom - it's at this point that Kirk discovers that they don't worship the 'sun', but rather a 'son', the son of God, and declares how grand it is that Christianity has spread among the stars (with no obvious or explainable means). It wasn't a bad episode, I just found that to be an unnecessary piece of evangelism.
I think you're letting the bad cloud the good parts. I won't deny there were unnecessary liberties, but man, you had to have liked seeing the Silver Lady being built for the first time. Or little details like how bizarrely alien the Romulan ship looked.
Clearly humanity has found a cure for homosexuality in the future!
But wait... wasn't there some hot female trill on trill action in ds9?
Ohhhh yeah
I kept watching this gif for a minute mesmerized
jufonuk
not tag worthy
Great OP, have to agree on the Borg going from supreme evil boogey men, in TNG/First Contact to boring easy to defeat dial-an enemy in Voyager.
one just one Borg cube tore the shit outta the whole of star fleet in first contact, skip to Voyager, suddenly the Borg are defanged caricatures of themselves, they might just as well shout "boo"..
"oh noes , teh borgs, runzz" **Blam blam**, borg deaded, no running, chill everyone.
one just one Borg cube tore the shit outta the whole of star fleet in first contact, skip to Voyager, suddenly the Borg are defanged caricatures of themselves, they might just as well shout "boo"..
"oh noes , teh borgs, runzz" **Blam blam**, borg deaded, no running, chill everyone.
Henchmen21
Banned
Nope. Both sucked (let's not even get on the idiocy of building it on earth instead of in space.)
NintendoGal
Member
Slightly off-topic, but I've always thought of the movies as such:
Star Trek: The Pajama Party
Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock
Star Trek 4: The Search for Whales
Star Trek 5: The Search for God
Star Trek 6: The Apology for Star Trek 5
Star Trek: The Pajama Party
Star Trek 2: The Wrath of Khan
Star Trek 3: The Search for Spock
Star Trek 4: The Search for Whales
Star Trek 5: The Search for God
Star Trek 6: The Apology for Star Trek 5
Mama Robotnik
Member
I'm really glad of the positive feedback to the thread, I was a bit worried it was going to come across as an out-of-place rant on a non-Trek forum, so I'm really glad you guys have enjoyed it. I do have some specific responses to some of your replies but I don't have time to go in-depth right now so I'll try to post them later tonight.
Henchmen21
Banned
It saddens me that TNG never got to go out on top. What was there swansong? Nemesis. Imagine if the TOS crew went out with V. TNG should have gotten their TUC equivalent.
One reason why ST couldn't become my favorite scifi show. Humans(federation) were pretty much perfect in it and it always bothered me. DS9 went some lengths to abolish that image but still too perfect for my taste. Given that even TNG showed in few episodes that Federation had dark side (The Pegasus) but overall ST is bit too overly positive and optimistic for my taste.Great OP and great thread
edit. Still great show. OG, TNG and DS9 are all in my top 10 scifi list.
Messypandas
Member
As a non trek fan i always enjoy how articulate and informative your threads are
I really disagree with that stance. The federation are not depicted as faultless at all, there are many instances of Picard completely acting counter to the official way in order to do what he considers to be right. The 'prime directive' is frequently challenged as immorally weighted and shown as bureaucratically charged regardless of it's impact on the races they meet.
The picture I get of the federation is not exclusively a positive one at all.
Excellent thread, nice OP too.
1-6: Fuck yes. 1 and 6 especially. So bad. 7: What the hell are you smoking?
1-6: Fuck yes. 1 and 6 especially. So bad. 7: What the hell are you smoking?
I meant more along the lines of earth and it's sister colonies being utopias. In the frontiers things didn't work out too well for Federation and it's rule book (Maquis were good example of this) but every time the characters spoke about earth or their own problems I just couldn't stand how sappy it always sounded.
staticneuron
Member
I like star trek but never took it that seriously. I never felt that it presented itself that way. Does it make me a bad fan that I think the OP is way too deep about this? I am not sure if this is about love or hate? Maybe love turned into hate.
The Librarian
Banned
Yeah. They should've let Dukat died in "Waltz." :/
SteveWinwood
Member
Great OP and great thread
I want to punch him in the face so bad. If I ever go to a trek convention (which I never will) I will need to be restrained from trying to hit him.
Actually the actor is pretty cool. Wasn't there some podcast where he makes fun of crusher, or did I dream that?
Actually, can we add the Ferengis in general? They were comic relief enemies in their early TNG appearances, but swiftly became a way for the show to have T&A in DS9 while still getting to go "look at these inferior people with their T&A!" Quark was saved by some terrific acting, but he's the only Ferengi in the show history I think is a decent character.
Also, civilian fashion. The fucking fashion.
I really liked the bit in DS9 where Sisko boils it down to "the problem is Earth". Earth actually is the paradise the Federation thinks it is, and since that's where the HQ is, the Federation government is out of touch with the reality of the rest of the galaxy.
Also, civilian fashion. The fucking fashion.
DS9's greatest achievement, bettered only by Sisko's "I can live with it".
Trek debates on Trek forums are rubbish. I generally avoid. What I like about GAF is that even if it is videogames oriented, the community at large seems a lot less general focused. You get 'real people' opinions, or the illusion thereof.
Well that's what I liked about TNG and DS9. It showed that most Federation types were just drinking the kool aid and thinking they were perfect, too. It produced some genuinely brilliant, near-perfect men like Picard, but it also produced a bunch of arrogant douche bags.
I really liked the bit in DS9 where Sisko boils it down to "the problem is Earth". Earth actually is the paradise the Federation thinks it is, and since that's where the HQ is, the Federation government is out of touch with the reality of the rest of the galaxy.
I remember subjecting myself to one episode of voyager where the captain of the ship had thrown a complete strop and refused to leave her room because she couldn't see the stars from the window.
-'Captain we need you!'
'no iam not coming out.'
-'but you are the captain!'
'and you are a doo-doo head.'
-'Captain we need you!'
'no iam not coming out.'
-'but you are the captain!'
'and you are a doo-doo head.'
SpoonyBard
Banned
How about The Omega Glory, where Kirk and crew help the space Americans defeat the commie space Asians?
elrechazado
Banned
I think number one should be the stupid inconsistency and nonsense of the economic system of the galaxy. How does quark's exist when there are free federation replicators for anyone to use? How are there starving bajoran children given the same?
It's said repeatedly throughout TNG onwards that replicated food cannot compare to freshly made food. As for Bajorans, that's another sinister Federation element - they can't actively help them unless Bajor joins the Federation. Because reasons.
Also, I think people do forget that replicators still need raw materials. Food replicators use this protein goo thing.
But Quark replicates food and drinks all the time. Maybe they stay for the ambiance but I have to say I don't get the economics of Trek either. I think there are even some books about the issue
I gotta check them out for more info.The Librarian
Banned
Cause it's cheaper and he wants to save money, and he owns the only holosuites on the station, and he has that dabo wheel.But Quark replicates food and drinks all the time. Maybe they stay for the ambiance but I have to say I don't get the economics of Trek either. I think there are even some books about the issue
EDIT: Plus he stocks booze, and it's a bar, so that's what most people go there for.
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