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pelican
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:29 AM)
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Sweeney is coming across s a paranoid, conspiracy led pantomime character. Borderline ridiculous.

If he is that worried set an example - only release Epic games on SteamOs.
Frumix
Suffering From Success
(07-26-2016, 08:29 AM)
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Originally Posted by unapersson

I don't if they'd do it this way, but they have form for this kind of thing. Going back a long way (DOS ain't done 'til Lotus won't run) or the new Windows 10 warning that pops up if you're using Chrome or Firefox to say they're power inefficient and you should use Edge:

How is this even legal
wapplew
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:29 AM)
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The only way UWA replace win32 in the future, is because UWA will be superior then, not some scummy tactic.
PC gamers are way to smart to let that happen, give us some credit Sweeney.
GrantDaNasty
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aztechnology

My picture was just in good fun. I think he's exaggerating slightly how easy or able Microsoft will be able to implement such a strategy though. They have indeed tried before but when it comes to gaming they will be getting shut down. I believe the industry and gamers would be linux bound before that. Steam for instance is far too entrenched at this point for it to move the needle more than just a bit over the next decade.

Sure, there are plenty of ways they could fuck it up, but the incentive is there, and they have the power since y'know...they run the platform. I'm just bothered by people who are brushing it off completely, especially as evidence has shown they have done similar things in the past (maybe not in the gaming segment, but I'm sure it's in the back of a lot of minds over at Redmond HQ).
Stilton Disco
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:31 AM)
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He is absolutely over egging it, but anyone who dismisses this out of hand clearly has not been paying attention to how Microsoft has always conducted business and treated both its rivals and users.

There will be people at that company in positions of power that will be pushing this agenda, even if how much impact it will have long term is anyone's guess.
benny_a
extra source of jiggaflops
(07-26-2016, 08:31 AM)
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Originally Posted by Inuhanyou

I thought it was common knowledge that MS was trying to lock down the PC ecosystem with Windows 10(and Windows 10 store) and attempting to curtail their competitors content? Was that big or controversial new news?

You thought absolutely wrong going by this thread.
ScientificPizza
Banned
(07-26-2016, 08:33 AM)
Like... WHY would they even want to do that?
TheKeyPit
Banned
(07-26-2016, 08:34 AM)
Yeah, bullocks, and no chance something like this would be legal in Europe.

Where do you come up with shit like this?
CassidyIzABeast
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:35 AM)
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Breh went full tinfoil on us.
MilkyJoe
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:36 AM)
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I've read some crap on the internet, but that is a new level.
gofreak
GAF's Bob Woodward
(07-26-2016, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by Guerrilla

So you seriously think they will botch win32 compatibility and destroy their biggest revenue stream? Or what are they going to do to make steam work worse?

Doesn't Steam rely on API shims and the like for some of its features? E.g. Overlays, or input interception for streaming or whatever. Windows could certainly do things to interfere with that without affecting the vast majority of other win32 apps.

This isn't a comment on the overall plausibility of that happening. Just the technical feasibility.
LordBaztion
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:36 AM)
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Originally Posted by wapplew

The day UWA replace win32, is because UWA will be superior then, not some scummy tactic.
PC gamers is way to smart to let that happen.

yes. I understand that UWA may be inefficient for gaming but it goes beyond gaming, productivity and cloud based apps could benefit greatly from the UWA proposal. Personally I don't se why would MS want to risk game developers moving into another OS for gaming software development when it is already Windows centric. Keeping those game developers using Windows is far more important than want they may earn with a store front.
SappYoda
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:37 AM)
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Windows already dropped DOS compatibility, and win95/98 compatibility, and XP compatibility. Making running them on Windows 10 a pain in the ass. And you think Tim is wrong?
Roshin
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:37 AM)

Originally Posted by Aztechnology

Steam for instance is far too entrenched at this point for it to move the needle more than just a bit over the next decade.

I remember when Steam launched and how people laughed and shook their heads at how crazy Valve were.

In the years that followed people launched their own digital platforms and muttered about how Steam was unfair competition and how it dominated the market.

Let's just say that things change and if one approach doesn't work, well, maybe another one will.
EmiPrime
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:37 AM)
The Steam client is already mediocre on Windows and is straight up garbage on OS X.

Microsoft don't need to lift a finger to make Steam look bad.
MarionCB
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:37 AM)
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Originally Posted by Guerrilla

So you seriously think they will botch win32 compatibility and destroy their biggest revenue stream? Or what are they going to do to make steam work worse?

It won't be like an off-switch, but the strategy works by creating dependency on the new extended platform; part of that is allowing Win 32 to become inadequate and no longer viable.

Perhaps I'm being optimistic because I find the idea so horrid, but I don't think MS will succeed this time, just like with the Xbox DRM. I can certainly see them trying right now however. It is evident.
LuvOfThaGame
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:39 AM)
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He seems to have personal issues with MS. Not very professional.
Mivey
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:39 AM)
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He is just speaking about what MS could set out to do based on their proven track record. How is this even newsworthy?
wapplew
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:41 AM)
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Originally Posted by ScientificPizza

Like... WHY would they even want to do that?

To monetize their OS?
They hand it out for free to boost install base, they don't make money by sell overprice hardware like Apple, they don't make money from software sold on other store, convince people to use their store is how they make money.
Imperfected
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:41 AM)
Okay, but this "make Steam buggy so the Windows Store looks good" plan is predicated on something Windows-related not also being incredibly buggy. So, Microsoft actually getting the Windows environment into tip-top shape would be the first order of business in this master plan.

So, push that projection out from "5 years" to "probably never", if you believe Sweeney in the first place.
Gemüsepizza
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:41 AM)
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This is just getting sad, Jesus Christ. How can anyone honestly believe that the industry, customers and organisations like the EU will just silently watch Microsoft doing stuff like this. Hint: They won't. And Microsoft knows this. This is conspiracy level stuff.
kagamin
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:41 AM)
Trying to attack Steam like this would alienate the single largest PC gaming community, and therefore would be very foolish.
Dash_Riprock
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:42 AM)
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So he thinks MS does this in real life:

hooijdonk17
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:43 AM)
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It all sounds so stupid.. until you remember what they did to Netscape.
tuna_love
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:43 AM)
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Originally Posted by Aceofspades

If MS had to choose to eliminate one company from existence, they will choose Steam over Sony.

Steam is twisting their arm in the PC space. So this news is not surprising at all.

they might want to get rid of apple and google too
WaterAstro
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:44 AM)
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Steam now Steam OS exclusive.
Night Angel
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Gemüsepizza

This is just getting sad, Jesus Christ. How can anyone honestly believe that the industry, customers and organisations like the EU will just silently watch Microsoft doing stuff like this. Hint: They won't. And Microsoft knows this. This is conspiracy level stuff.

I mean, they've done it before. Anyone who isn't at least a little wary hasn't been paying attention.
Freshmaker
I am Korean.
(07-26-2016, 08:46 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mutanthands

That's just PC gaming. You don't need the boogie man rummaging about in your code to have shit break.

I'd rather it run than waste time trying to convince Windows it's not a virus. It was fine before the last update.
AusRoachman
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by EmiPrime

The Steam client is already mediocre on Windows and is straight up garbage on OS X.

Microsoft don't need to lift a finger to make Steam look bad.

This. Valve are doing plenty of things themselves to screw up steam, not to mention other activities like the cs gambling e.t.c

If steam breaks, how would you know if its win10 or just valve being valve ?

If anything Microsoft should just be making there app store better then steam and hope eventually people will start to move over. Still have a long way to go as there store is an absolute mess.
Juanfp
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:47 AM)
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Gaming being an small part of MS, why they will do that when they when all other type of programs will not change to UWP.
MaulerX
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:48 AM)
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He sounds extremely paranoid and delusional. Everyone knows MS isn't perfect etc... etc... but he is coming across as having a serious agenda and is pretty much spreading FUD at this point. Some of this stuff almost sounds like he could probably get sued for.



Originally Posted by AusRoachman


If steam breaks, how would you know if its win10 or just valve being valve ?


That's a good point and another reason why he has to be careful with what he says. It's almost like he could potentially be preemptively setting up MS for blame if indeed Steam goes to shit for fault of their own.
EightBitNate
Banned
(07-26-2016, 08:48 AM)
tuna_love
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Freshmaker

I'd rather it run than waste time trying to convince Windows it's not a virus. It was fine before the last update.

ms must be starting with your machine first
CCIE
Banned
(07-26-2016, 08:50 AM)
Actually, that is exactly how MS works. Those who are too young do not remember
kiguel182
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:52 AM)
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Hilarious that people are calling this a conspiracy theory given MSs history.

Since the moment MS decided to create his App Store their biggest opponent has been Steam so it's no surprising they have a strategy in place to gain market share.

Hell, Gaben has been afraid of this since Windows 8 and that's where Steam OS came from.
Dinky Dino
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:53 AM)
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Well he's not completely off. But he did mention Microsoft might not be competent enough to pull it off. Still, he might have stated this too early. Valve would make a direct statement if they found something was off or not to their liking. Microsoft is on thin ice as it is in the pc space.
//DEVIL//
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:53 AM)
well. it kinda make sense. not sure of how MS will do it. but i am sure they want their store to be #1 and not Steam. so in theory they either purchase steam, if they can't, destroy them. if they can't then somehow join them in the profit.

not sure if the approach tim mentioned is a dead on, but its no secret MS want Valve out
Shin-Ra
Junior Member
(07-26-2016, 08:55 AM)
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Is Phil still good friends with Tim?
Cranster
Banned
(07-26-2016, 08:58 AM)

Originally Posted by kiguel182

Hilarious that people are calling this a conspiracy theory given MSs history.

Since the moment MS decided to create his App Store their biggest opponent has been Steam so it's no surprising they have a strategy in place to gain market share.

Hell, Gaben has been afraid of this since Windows 8 and that's where Steam OS came from.

Yeah, alot has changed since the 1990's. Let alone the damage this would cause with Valve which could lead to no future Valve game's on the Xbox platform and all other legal ramifications.
deadscreensky
Member
(07-26-2016, 08:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by Mivey

He is just speaking about what MS could set out to do based on their proven track record. How is this even newsworthy?

There's a big difference between being wary based on past history (or even just aware of what a huge dominant company can do to an industry, which is smart!) and what Sweeney is saying here. He's directly stating that Microsoft is going to break Steam in the next five years, that it is going to happen and in fact is already happening. He doesn't seem to offer any evidence for this, and while I want to give him the benefit of the doubt this is a major accusation of probably criminal behavior he's aimed at a business competitor. Just throwing that out there without any supporting evidence comes across as paranoid at best.

Coming off his recent, somewhat misleading UWP claims doesn't help.

I want to assume Sweeney is saying things like this as a defensive measure, that by pushing out an unlikely worst-case scenario as the guaranteed future he's trying to ensure it can't happen, and that he knows how paranoid and frankly silly a lot of it actually is. But it still sounds pretty damn silly.
Night Angel
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by Cranster

Yeah, alot has changed since the 1990's.

Yep. Since then we've experienced several other initiatives by MS that aimed at limiting consumer choice and freedom in order to strengthen their hold on key markets. DRM for the Bone being the most recent.

And then you've got the whole GFWL fiasco.
Dinky Dino
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:02 AM)
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Originally Posted by Shin-Ra

Is Phil still good friends with Tim?

Phil is friends with everyone tho even if they talk bad about microsoft.

Hm I'd like to see Phil respond to Sweeny since that's always fun to read.
O Canada Our Home and Native Land
Banned
(07-26-2016, 09:02 AM)

Originally Posted by Cranster

Yeah, alot has changed since the 1990's. Let alone the damage this would cause with Valve which could lead to no future Valve game's on the Xbox platform and all other legal ramifications.

Valve...games?
CrayToes
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:03 AM)
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Looks like Tim isn't the only one who needs a tinfoil hat judging by this thread.
duckroll
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:03 AM)
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On the surface this seems implausible, unlikely, and paranoid. But then you think about it a bit, and... it still seems implausible, unlikely, and paranoid. Then you start reading today's news, and you start to think... which is more outragous? A claim that MS is going to try and tank a competitor's platform by abusing their monopoly power in consumer PCs, or the possibility that Russia is in fact using Wikileaks as a public platform to sabotage the US presidential election via information warfare? What a day.
dxdy
Banned
(07-26-2016, 09:07 AM)

Originally Posted by Tim Sweeney

That's exactly what they did to their previous competitors in other areas.


MaulerX
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by deadscreensky

There's a big difference between being wary based on past history (or even just aware of what a huge dominant company can do to an industry, which is smart!) and what Sweeney is saying here. He's directly stating that Microsoft is going to break Steam in the next five years, that it is going to happen and in fact is already happening. He doesn't seem to offer any evidence for this, and while I want to give him the benefit of the doubt this is a major accusation of probably criminal behavior he's aimed at a business competitor. Just throwing that out there without any supporting evidence comes across as paranoid at best.

Coming off his recent, somewhat misleading UWP claims doesn't help.

I want to assume Sweeney is saying things like this as a defensive measure, that by pushing out an unlikely worst-case scenario as the guaranteed future he's trying to ensure it can't happen, and that he knows how paranoid and frankly silly a lot of it actually is. But it still sounds pretty damn silly.



That's the main issue. He isn't saying he "thinks" this will happen. He's saying it will in fact happen and it is in fact happening already. That's some crazy accusation right there.
TBiddy
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:09 AM)
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Getting Steam to run worse? I don't think even MS are that good.
O Canada Our Home and Native Land
Banned
(07-26-2016, 09:09 AM)
Instead of making only a joke post here is some reading material for some of you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Embrac...and_extinguish
SinCityAssassin
Member
(07-26-2016, 09:10 AM)
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Originally Posted by duckroll

On the surface this seems implausible, unlikely, and paranoid. But then you think about it a bit, and... it still seems implausible, unlikely, and paranoid. Then you start reading today's news, and you start to think... which is more outragous? A claim that MS is going to try and tank a competitor's platform by abusing their monopoly power in consumer PCs, or the possibility that Russia is in fact using Wikileaks as a public platform to sabotage the US presidential election via information warfare? What a day.

So you're telling me it's the Russians that are destabilizing Steam.

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