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Halo 5: Guardians |OT5| Is HaloGAF irrelevant now?

Here you go.

She references the Didact's speech in Halo 4's epilogue. The stuff about the mantle of responsibility.
It isn't completely verbatim as she replaces a few words (for example "Forerunners" with "Created"), but close enough.

it would be interesting if the "Mantle" was more than just an ideology and some material, mind-altering thing in some capacity, hence the shared dialogue. With all the jedAI mind tricks and quantum fuckery present in the Forerunner Trilogy it's not that far-fetched. Considering narratively it's been a "poisoned chalice" to nearly everyone that followed it fervently, maybe Halo 6 will involve having to kill the Mantle itself, in some capacity.

EDIT: killing the Mantle and Cortana and Chief becoming buddies again is really interesting to me now that I think about it
 
halo 6 is going to be nothing but warden fights

FWNx8Jv.gif

Forgot all about this gif

Also, the Mantle is Yu Yeven confirmed
 
Edit: loooool ^



Here you go.

She references the Didact's speech in Halo 4's epilogue. The stuff about the mantle of responsibility.
It isn't completely verbatim as she replaces a few words (for example "Forerunners" with "Created"), but close enough.

interesting. i really enjoyed that cinematic where he is released from that sphere prison and all of his armor start to move around him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3cIFNDy2zDM

man i love MC's visor. ..after watching that makes me wanna watch all of the h4 cutscenes lol.
 

Trup1aya

Member
it would be interesting if the "Mantle" was more than just an ideology and some material, mind-altering thing in some capacity, hence the shared dialogue. With all the jedAI mind tricks and quantum fuckery present in the Forerunner Trilogy it's not that far-fetched. Considering narratively it's been a "poisoned chalice" to nearly everyone that followed it fervently, maybe Halo 6 will involve having to kill the Mantle itself, in some capacity.

Well it could be that her speech being similar to the Didacts is a result of her accessing and updating the record he stored there.

So while the mantle itself is just an idea, ones interpretation of that idea can be skewed by the Domains record of it.
 
To me it looks like 343 wants to delete everything Bungie made and making something new for them self.

The sad truth is you can't. Halo was great. And with every effort to change you end up fucking it up more. In the end we end up with a game more shallow than what it is now.

I just hope MS will take some action before its to late.

If MS have done nothing by now, i dont see why they would at this point. I still believe that they need more 'core' halo people back on halo. Like what they did for Gears and coalition. The people in charge now dont seem to get it.
 
halo wars 2 -
so with the ring, they disabled the detonation mechanism in it right? so it's just a ring, no longer a weapon now? did i miss something from the cutscenes lol
 
Just 2 more days for the Halo World Championship 2017 Mexico city qualifiers :D, I'm very excited yesterday Tashi went to my stream and said that he and Kiki are going to be on the event, awesome I can't wait to meet them both

 

Fuchsdh

Member
halo wars 2 -
so with the ring, they disabled the detonation mechanism in it right? so it's just a ring, no longer a weapon now? did i miss something from the cutscenes lol

They disabled the firing mechanism, yes, but it doesn't sound like they did anything on the scale of Chief disabling its pulse generators or similar. I imagine it'd be fairly trivial to reactivate it if someone knew what they were doing.

EDIT: Wait, is this Ghost in the Shell forge contest thing new? Kinda' weird promotion, but whatevs.
 
They disabled the firing mechanism, yes, but it doesn't sound like they did anything on the scale of Chief disabling its pulse generators or similar. I imagine it'd be fairly trivial to reactivate it if someone knew what they were doing.

EDIT: Wait, is this Ghost in the Shell forge contest thing new? Kinda' weird promotion, but whatevs.

Ah okay thnx.

On ur edit. I just seen that on my xbox app. Excited to see what ppl make.
 

-Ryn

Banned
yeah i only enjoyed the watcher/knight dynamic too. but that even changed from 4 to 5.

everything else is rubbish. even their boss 7Warden was rubbish. the didact doesnt count because he was a qte lol... smh
The weapons are nice other than that, yeah..
I think they gonna be the main enemy in Halo 6 :/
The Prometheans are actually a metaphor for the Halo franchise.

So meta.

No, they should use 6 as an opportunity to kill Chief & Cortana and move on.

It'll help the rest of us move on too.
At this point I feel like I wouldn't complain if they never brought up the Chief, Cortana, or any of the original cast again. I'd rather that than see them bastardized even further because of 343's... vision.

Not that I'm bitter :p I think 343 are perfectly capable of developing a fun game. I'm just not so sure they can make a good Halo series. It doesn't even seem like they want to sometimes.

Of course I'll continue to buy the games because I'm a sucker for space janitors

halo 6 is going to be nothing but warden fights

FWNx8Jv.gif
lmao
 

jem0208

Member
I liked fighting Prometheans in 5.

The soldiers zipping around teleporting really forced you to be quick on your feet and make use of the movement abilities and terrain.

The new knights are massively improved. I find them really satisfying to take down because of how they reward precision shooting.

The crawlers are still meh. Gameplay wise I really don't see that much difference between them and grunts, they're both just an annoyance. Crawlers just scamper around a bit faster. Grunts have the benefit of being quite funny though.


In general I found Promethean encounters to be a bit more chaotic than covenant ones but I quite liked that. It's less pre planning and more on your feet reactions which I found to be a nice dynamic shift compared to the covenant.

The lack of good hit reactions is still shit though.
 
The Prometheans are actually a metaphor for the Halo franchise.

So meta.


At this point I feel like I wouldn't complain if they never brought up the Chief, Cortana, or any of the original cast again. I'd rather that than see them bastardized even further because of 343's... vision.

Not that I'm bitter :p I think 343 are perfectly capable of developing a fun game. I'm just not so sure they can make a good Halo series. It doesn't even seem like they want to sometimes.

Of course I'll continue to buy the games because I'm a sucker for space janitors


lmao

To be fair, they have definitely shown that they are more than capable of producing quality Halo... aspects? It's just that the product as a whole tends to not quite get there because some parts are lacking, such as the storytelling in H5 or most of the MP suite in Halo 4, disregarding BTB and the version in the MCC.

I think that Halo 5's base gameplay is an incredible evolution and definitely a step in the right direction.

Also, let's not forget Bungie's fair share of missteps (Halo 3's BR, bloom, Armor Lock, ...).

I liked fighting Prometheans in 5.

The soldiers zipping around teleporting really forced you to be quick on your feet and make use of the movement abilities and terrain.

The new knights are massively improved. I find them really satisfying to take down because of how they reward precision shooting.

The crawlers are still meh. Gameplay wise I really don't see that much difference between them and grunts, they're both just an annoyance. Crawlers just scamper around a bit faster. Grunts have the benefit of being quite funny though.


In general I found Promethean encounters to be a bit more chaotic than covenant ones but I quite liked that. It's less pre planning and more on your feet reactions which I found to be a nice dynamic shift compared to the covenant.

The lack of good hit reactions is still shit though.

This.

The Knights are vastly improved, agreed. The teleportation employed by the Soldiers is better as well as you can actually still see where they are headed. But, yeah, they don't react to shots at all. I'm still not sure where their weak spot is - except for their head, obviously, once it "opens up".
 
Prometheans are just so fucking one note. It isn't chaos, it's disorganization. Chaos was elites, grunts, and jackals mixed together. Chaos was a brute going bezerk when you ran out of ammo. Prometheans are shoot shoot teleport repeat.
 

jem0208

Member
Prometheans are just so fucking one note. It isn't chaos, it's disorganization. Chaos was elites, grunts, and jackals mixed together. Chaos was a brute going bezerk when you ran out of ammo. Prometheans are shoot shoot teleport repeat.
You can make reductionist arguments like that for everything.

Elites are just shoot shoot, roll repeat.

Grunts are just shoot shoot, plasma nade repeat.

Jackals are just shoot shoot, sit behind shield repeat.

Etc.
 
Prometheans are just so fucking one note. It isn't chaos, it's disorganization. Chaos was elites, grunts, and jackals mixed together. Chaos was a brute going bezerk when you ran out of ammo. Prometheans are shoot shoot teleport repeat.

Eh... disagree. There's a procedure to Promethean fights, but it's more involved than that. You start out suppressing the soldiers, deal with the crawler advance, dodge the attention of the Knights, deal with soldiers being in entirely different places, there's a rhythm. Soldiers have godawful hit feedback (Knights less so, but could still be better), and in terms of variety they're woefully lacking (only one vehicle smh) but other than that I rather like 'em.

How do people feel about this? Promethean units are still around, but they're remix'd into what's effectively a new Created faction that also features stuff like the Goblin and probably other new wacky stuff from Cortana & co. Larger variety of units, more flexibility in encounter design.
 

Trup1aya

Member
Promethean enemies are all trash.

Knights are now less trash than in H4, but they are still trashy.

Mid-fight Teleportation is not fun to fight against. It's random BS. I see no value in randomly resetting the positioning that a player fought for simply because the dev couldn't think of a more engaging way for them to defend themselves.

It also sucks that the most efficient way to deal with Promethean enemies is to use their weaponry against them- because those weapons are also trash.

Also, the way they randomly warp onto the battlefield is lame. Narratively, why don't they just keep warping in until you are overwhelmed? Why didn't they just send 12 wardens to easily take out Blue Team? With the Covenant dropships it feels like it's about wartime logistics and strategy. With Prometheans it feels like it's just random 'game logic'.

Uhh I hate it.
 

Karl2177

Member
No more will I enter Warzone, not even for the company, until vehicle changes are made. Whoever thought, "Man the Banshee cost needs to be lowered" probably paid their way into 343i like they were the Betsy DeVos of game designers.
 

jem0208

Member
Promethean enemies are all trash.

Knights are now less trash than in H4, but they are still trashy.

Mid-fight Teleportation is not fun to fight against. It's random BS. I see no value in randomly resetting the positioning that a player fought for simply because the dev couldn't think of a more engaging way for them to defend themselves.

It also sucks that the most efficient way to deal with Promethean enemies is to use their weaponry against them- because those weapons are also trash.

Also, the way they randomly warp onto the battlefield is lame. Narratively, why don't they just keep warping in until you are overwhelmed? Why didn't they just send 12 wardens to easily take out Blue Team? With the Covenant dropships it feels like it's about wartime logistics and strategy. With Prometheans it feels like it's just random 'game logic'.

Uhh I hate it.

The soldier's teleporting is no more random than an elite jumping/rolling. Both are just as easy to track as the other and they can travel a fairly similar distance.
 
You can make reductionist arguments like that for everything.

Elites are just shoot shoot, roll repeat.

Grunts are just shoot shoot, plasma nade repeat.

Jackals are just shoot shoot, sit behind shield repeat.

Etc.

After fighting soldiers over and over in Warzone, I can say with a high degree of certainty they are shitty enemies that are not fun to fight, for a number of reasons.

They are smaller and harder to hit than Elites, but somehow seem to possess more health. It's difficult to tell how weak they are, and when they are one-hit it's less obvious.

But worst of all, they teleport- and no, it is not at all the same as Elites dodging (do they even roll in infantry encounters?). Elites have to obey the laws of physics, while soldiers can much more quickly move anywhere within a given area and are invincible while they do so. Soldiers can even string teleports, putting them out of reasonable automatic range and/or forcing you to stop shooting while you find them. Their escapes don't feel clever, they feel like cheap RNG resets to an encounter that often you were about to win.

Oh look! EVIDENCE

Plus in the context of Warzone, the weapons that are good against them (namely Boltshots and Suppressors) are not very good against anything else. This makes them even more frustrating to fight since you are rarely equipped to deal with them unless you want to effectively handicap yourself.

The soldier's teleporting is no more random than an elite jumping/rolling. Both are just as easy to track as the other and they can travel a fairly similar distance.

How can you be so wrong?
 

jem0208

Member
I don't know what it is about Warzone but all the AI enemies suck. Fighting AI is Warzone is boring as fuck, I'm talking purely about the campaign.

- I fail to see why being harder to hit is a bad thing, be better at shooting.
- I'm pretty sure they don't possess more health, might depend on the type of soldier/elite being compared. That said the crap hit reactions will certainly make it feel like you're doing less damage and so make them feel stronger.
- It's bloody obvious when they're one shot, their heads glow bright red! I agree about not being able to tell how weak they are though, that issue kinda ties into the poor hit reactions.
- I can see why that clip is a bit shit. That said in the campaign you're usually engaging a bunch of enemies at once, one on one's with a single soldier are rare. That means when one soldier teleports away you can just refocus on a different target. I've never had to spend time chasing a single soldier who teleported away in the campaign.

Also at least soldiers' shields don't recharge so if you pop their armour and they teleport away they'll still be one shot when you engage them again later. An elite diving behind a rock and getting their shields back is far more frustrating than having to chase for a second. I've never found it frustrating to fight them.


On the random aspect of the teleporting, I've never had an issue with tracking soldiers and I've played through the campaign 4 or 5 times now. It's clearly indicated when they're teleporting and the glowing ball of light and sparks helps substantially.
 

Trup1aya

Member
The soldier's teleporting is no more random than an elite jumping/rolling. Both are just as easy to track as the other and they can travel a fairly similar distance.

So wrong.

Edit : beaten

Also at least soldiers' shields don't recharge so if you pop their armour and they teleport away they'll still be one shot when you engage them again later. An elite diving behind a rock and getting their shields back is far more frustrating than having to chase for a second. I've never found it frustrating to fight them.


On the random aspect of the teleporting, I've never had an issue with tracking soldiers and I've played through the campaign 4 or 5 times now. It's clearly indicated when they're teleporting and the glowing ball of light and sparks helps substantially.

Wow. Nothing about fighting a Soldier is better than fighting elites. The shield mechanic IS HALO.

It's a game of tactics (elites) vs a game of attrition (soldiers). The joy of fighting elites is cutting off their options for recharging their shield. If they do recover it's because YOU failed. Not because of poor behavior design.

Regarding tracking Soldiers it's not "hard" it's annoying and cheap. You get the drop on an enemy, and he become invincible while freely moving to a vantage point. It's even more annoying when you are fighting multiple soldiers, as they can just instantaneously go from being disadvantaged to having a flank on you- and they didn't earn it.

Thank the gods soldiers don't have a rechargeable shield. That would make their terrible design even worse.
 
I don't know what it is about Warzone but all the AI enemies suck. Fighting AI is Warzone is boring as fuck, I'm talking purely about the campaign.

- I fail to see why being harder to hit is a bad thing, be better at shooting.
- It's bloody obvious when they're one shot, their heads glow bright red! I agree about not being able to tell how weak they are though, that issue kinda ties into the poor hit reactions.
- I can see why that clip is a bit shit. That said in the campaign you're usually engaging a bunch of enemies at once, one on one's with a single soldier are rare. That means when one soldier teleports away you can just refocus on a different target.

Also at least soldiers' shields don't recharge so if you pop their armour and they teleport away they'll still be one shot when you engage them again later. An elite diving behind a rock and getting their shields back is far more frustrating than having to chase for a second.

They are not just harder to hit, they are impossible to hit when teleporting.

The lack of hit feedback combined with their quickness, leanness, and health just stacks up to make them seem oddly imbalanced. In WZ, Promethean bases always take longer to clear out than Covenant ones because of Soldiers. If they were just as small and quick but had less health they'd probably feel much more reasonable. Like, if it took four headshots in a row to kill them they would be fine.

Their one shot status isn't that hard, but it's a helluva lot more subtle than what happens with elites, which pop then fizzle over their entire bodies. EDIT: Basically, outside of teleporting, they aren't broken so much as poorly implemented. They have the things they should, but they don't work well.

And I mean, come one, that should give you an indicator of how awesome their encounter design is when you literally stop trying to engage them and do something else for a while.

Elites are more interesting because you can't always just dump bullets into them and have things work out eventually, often you need to actually focus and think tactically about how to approach them. The game punishes you for not thinking the encounter through.
 
Shout out to Eugn and Trup1aya for providing the receipts, I was at work.

In conclusion: Prometheans suck, and Halo 6 will likely double down even further on them...
 

Karl2177

Member
Or look at it this way. Good PvE encounters are all predicated on a strategy that the player creates and then executes. Player satisfaction comes from successfully executing the strategy and overcoming any changes that had to come with it. At the same time the dynamic aspects of the encounter have to be recognizable to player so they can adjust accordingly. If they aren't recognizable(ex: where the Soldier is teleporting to) then there's more chances that the player will feel cheated. I'll bring up one of Ghaleon's old Reach Firefight clips. Throughout the video, he's assessing and reassessing the battlefield and changing his plan as he goes. With Halo 5 Soldiers and Halo 4 Knights, there's a chance that the Promethean would simply teleport on top of him and melee him immediately. That's about as recognizable as the Legendary Reach Campaign Wraiths that would shoot backwards at the player. Another video I'll bring up is from Halo 3's Anatomy of a Game. At 3:22 in the video, Jaime Griesemer says, "The state we want to keep you in is this constant state of challenge where if you're not succeeding, but [you know] next time if you just did a little bit better you could." When the enemies act unpredictably, it's nigh impossible for the player to adjust. There's a LOT in Halo 4's campaign, Halo 4's Spartan Ops, and Halo 5's campaign that doesn't matter about how well the player does, but moreso on what random action the Prometheans take.

If you enjoyed Halo 5's campaign, then great. But there's a LOT of people that didn't. Changing the way Prometheans act and behave, specifically the teleport, would probably resonate well with most of those people that didn't like it and I doubt many of those that did enjoy it wouldn't stop enjoying it with the changes.
 
Confirmed TIP for The Company:

I can't recall who brought this up recently but you can sit on top of an enemy base and pick off Marines. They don't take long to respawn and you can get about 4 at a time easily. Just got 24 Marine kills in one match with ease, but don't expect to win obviously lol.

EDIT: I should note this applies to the large bases. For the small bases you'll need to change it up since you'll be contesting it if you're standing on top.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Someone asked if you can bring back a general Halo Community / HaloGAF thread rather than one focused on Halo 5. I chatted with the team about it - please go right ahead. If you'd like to stick to this one, I can rename it.

As background, HaloGAF back in the day was one of the most complained about communities on the forum, but that's not the case with the Halo threads these days. Don't bring back bad habits from those days, and all is well. Let me know if you'd like a title change or if there's anything I can do to help out.
 
Someone asked if you can bring back a general Halo Community / HaloGAF thread rather than one focused on Halo 5. I chatted with the team about it - please go right ahead. If you'd like to stick to this one, I can rename it.

As background, HaloGAF back in the day was one of the most complained about communities on the forum, but that's not the case with the Halo threads these days. Don't bring back bad habits from those days, and all is well. Let me know if you'd like a title change or if there's anything I can do to help out.

Appreciate it good sir! HaloGAF is relevant once more.
 

Madness

Member
Someone asked if you can bring back a general Halo Community / HaloGAF thread rather than one focused on Halo 5. I chatted with the team about it - please go right ahead. If you'd like to stick to this one, I can rename it.

As background, HaloGAF back in the day was one of the most complained about communities on the forum, but that's not the case with the Halo threads these days. Don't bring back bad habits from those days, and all is well. Let me know if you'd like a title change or if there's anything I can do to help out.

Chris-Hemsworth-Smile-Gif.gif


Halo |OT25| - Still haven't unlocked Achilles
 

Trup1aya

Member
I think Prometheans can actually be fun, but their design just needs some fundamental changes.

Their weapons are not fun to contend with.
The homing projectiles have got to go. The needier is fine because needles are slow and easy to dodge. But the corner-bending property's of the surpressor and the bolt shot leave so much to be desired. Not only do they lack originality but they essentially make everyone on the battlefield an aim bot.

The H4 bolt shot was actually a good weapon, tarnished by annoying enemy behavior in the campaign and by the idiocy of 1HK starting weapons in MP.
The suppressor would be cool if it lost the homing properties, but had a much larger clip. That way it could be used as a support weapon, surpressing enemies behind cover.

soldiers shouldn't be analogous to spartans
I feel like Soliders were a bad attempt to extend the EliteSpartan dynamic to the new faction. That explains health and survival behaviors 343 programmed them with. But as HP only, enemies, they don't fit.

Make them more akin to Jackals/Marines. Like Jackal Shields, they should have a clear color coding system to relay to the player their remaining health, and they really shouldn't have much HP. Offset the reduced health by increasing situational awareness and/or numbers.

Also make their hit reactions more satisfying

Teleport should be nothing more than a dodge animation, not a mode of transportation.

If a promethean does teleport, the player should be able to predict where they will materialize and pre-emptively attack, just as you can with Covenant enemies who dodge.

They also shouldn't be invincible while teleporting. Perhaps hitting them while they are teleport would do more damage, or insta-kill.

even tank enemies should have satisfyingly exploitable weaknesses

This goes for H2-5 Hunters as much as it does Knights. Bullet Sponges are much more fun, if skilled play/resourcefulness allows you to circumvent those sponge properties altogether. The Knight weak spots make for a better engagement, but it leads to rather one demensional strats for taking them out. CE Hunters were cool, because with the right footwork, and the right weapon you make short work of them. It was a dynamic that encouraged getting up close and personal and handsomely rewarded the risk. Now, we are encouraged to keep a healthy distance and deal a bunch of damage over time.

fuck crawlers

Seriously, fuck those guys. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't using H5 bolt shots and surpressors. But i dunno.
 
Someone asked if you can bring back a general Halo Community / HaloGAF thread rather than one focused on Halo 5. I chatted with the team about it - please go right ahead. If you'd like to stick to this one, I can rename it.

As background, HaloGAF back in the day was one of the most complained about communities on the forum, but that's not the case with the Halo threads these days. Don't bring back bad habits from those days, and all is well. Let me know if you'd like a title change or if there's anything I can do to help out.

That makes more sense since we talk about both Halo 5 and Wars 2 in here.
 

-Ryn

Banned
#weback

To be fair, they have definitely shown that they are more than capable of producing quality Halo... aspects? It's just that the product as a whole tends to not quite get there because some parts are lacking, such as the storytelling in H5 or most of the MP suite in Halo 4, disregarding BTB and the version in the MCC.

I think that Halo 5's base gameplay is an incredible evolution and definitely a step in the right direction.

Also, let's not forget Bungie's fair share of missteps (Halo 3's BR, bloom, Armor Lock, ...).
You've pretty well nailed it on the head.

In regards to Bungie vs 343, while I do agree they've had their own fumbles, they've always managed to deliver a cohesive experience that drew me in. I always felt like I was playing a Halo game and I was invested in what was happening on both the story side as well as the multiplayer side (both of which I of course had some criticisms for). Ever since 343 has taken the helm however, I've not felt like I've played a proper Halo. They have some nice ideas for the gameplay for sure, and I'd actually say that Halo 5 is the best iteration of Halo's arena gameplay to date. My issue is that everything outside of that is them attempting to change things into something of their own or having to backtrack things they've changed. Whether it be the aesthetic, lore, or even just basic features for the game at launch. 343 talks about a passion for Halo (and I'm sure they do love playing the games) yet has tried to change so much and I find that far more telling.

I honestly think they'd be much better off making their own game instead of having to mix their own ideas of what they want a game to be with a previously established and beloved franchise.

We're gonna need an OT name...
HaloGAF |OT| Shitlords Never Die
 
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