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Alien: Covenant |SPOILER THREAD| With more Christian subtext than BvS

Z3M0G

Member
I watched over 30 interviews with ridley scott. He is such an asshole in those interviews and the interviewers have no balls asking about the plot holes. Ridley says, after Prometheus they checked the social media and they all missed the xenomorphs and so he gave them xenomorphs...

So it was just fan-service and was never part of his grand plot anyways... :/

We are just wasting our time and spinning our gears for nothing... David's Eggs were likely never in the original script. They were just added in to make fans happy. Sadly, sticking with "Paradise Lost" and keeping it just about David and the new alien types would have made for a much less messy movie... but people would have RAGED if this did not somehow start to tie into the original Alien... and since that was never the original plan anyways, they are likely not going to pull that off in any meaningful way at all.

WHAT. A. FUCKING. MESS.

I actually wish the Xeno's were left out now... fuck. "Paradise Lost" was going to be a very different movie, at least the final act. But I also suspect that people would have been all "WTF!"

Were there early screen tests and major reshoots? I wonder if "Paradise Lost" once existed on its own, and they wrote in the Xeno and shot all that stuff at a later date and changed the title to "Alien:..."
 

Vic_Viper

Member
first post on neogaf yeah.

Welcome!

Just saw this last night and man I was dissapointed lol. Unlike most, I was a huge fan of Prometheus. As a stand alone film Prometheus was great, but the added Alien ties at the end were going to be hard to live up too. Covenant definitely wasnt the answer I was looking for. So many of the great ideas set up in Prometheus were just scrapped and tossed out in Covenant. Especially the death of Shaw.

If Covenant was supposed to be the Rogue One of the Alien franchise then it was an utter failure. It wasnt scary and it didnt do anything new. There is obviously another film that takes place after this one, but man I hope they work really hard on the skrip/story before rushing to shoot it.

Dont get me wrong I still enjoyed the ride and it was nowhere near as bad as the Star Wars Prequels.

Best Character in the film by far was James Franco! His performance was Oscar worthy!
 

jmdajr

Member
To be honest, Ridley should just stop listening to the fans. I liked Prometheus cause it was different. Now we have to deal with the hyrbrid stuff where he tries to please fans and connect it all.

Anyhow. I was pretty disappointment. I have been totally PRO Prometheus since Day 1 and loved the movie. This detour sucks.

My sense of wonder is dead.
 

Z3M0G

Member
Best Character in the film by far was James Franco! His performance was Oscar worthy!

Without prior knowledge that he was in the film, would anyone have recognized him in the tube? I didn't realize it was him at all... then we see the video and I was like "WAAAT"
 

Vic_Viper

Member
Without prior knowledge that he was in the film, would anyone have recognized him in the tube? I didn't realize it was him at all... then we see the video and I was like "WAAAT"

I know right! What a selfless role with some of the best acting in the entire movie. His character arc was near perfection.
 
I keep hearing that but how do we know that's true? That black goo would probably mutate any living lifeform into producing some variation of an "morph".

7691786250_9a8f27a6ed_b.jpg


All is see is a morph like creature like all the rest. What leads you to believe its the Deacon variation?

Yes, the mural and the stuff in David's lair seem to indicate that the pathogen had a tendency to mutate life into forms resembling the mural, supported by the appearances of the Deacon and the Neomorph without David's intervention.

It seems that David refined that process into a specific desired result, the Xenomorph. He created a certain breed, but the basic outline was already established. He perfected it.
 

Z3M0G

Member
Hahaha, I love how Angry Joe points out here that the "Protomorphs" result with just breathing in or, heck, coming into skin contact with the black goo / dust... while the Xenomorph process still involves an Egg > birthing a face hugger > latching into a host and ingesting / impregnating it. Making the facehugger/Xenomorph MUCH less threatening / effective ... and a major step backwards.

https://youtu.be/tmI2z1vZeCM?t=766
 
Hahaha, I love how Angry Joe points out here that the "Protomorphs" result with just breathing in or, heck, coming into skin contact with the black goo / dust... while the Xenomorph process still involves an Egg > birthing a face hugger > latching into a host and ingesting / impregnating it. Making the facehugger/Xenomorph MUCH less threatening / effective ... and a major step backwards.

https://youtu.be/tmI2z1vZeCM?t=766

lol, holy fuck....this is so true. Makes no sense.

And also I think the hammerpede from Prometheus was way more threatening too. That sucker was able to regenerate and super agile
 

Markoman

Member
Here's how everything could've been a liitle more cohesive and interesting for both movies:
Pls correct me if I'm wrong. In Prometheus David at one point was the central figure who drove the plot forward.
It seems he was the only one capable of
a) working with the Engineers tech -> telling the crew about the Engineers' mission
b) establishing communication with the Engineer -> Engineer goes into rage mode

Dum, dum, dum...imagine if they did a flashback-scene in Covenant that reveals that David lied to both the crew and the Engineer including the audience. Somethin along the lines:
Hello Mr. Engineer. Man, you're an ugly mofo. See these guys? They have constructed me and we're here to kick your ass and steal your black goo. But you know what? I hate them to the bone. Interested in a little collaboration? Rip my head off for "yes"
 
Whew- as someone who really disliked Prometheus, this was a lot of fun. Doesn't fit my canon of Alien stuff but goddamn was it at least extremely enjoyable and perversely violent. Oh man. Just, finally, something worth owning from the franchise since Aliens- hard R rated creature violence with a mad scientist at the helm.

Solid movie I'll gladly buy and rewatch. David went from fucking zero to hero with this for real. Those pencil sketches! Wow.

Totally Alien: The Lost World edition and I loved it after being disappointed in each AvP, Predators, Alien 3 on, Promotheus on every level not practical, etc.

Flawed movie? Sure. Worst in the series? Not by a long shot.
Agreed wholeheartedly.

Oh please the Star Wars prequels are much better than this so far :p
As if. Prometheus sure, but this film alone manages to be more entertaining than the majority of that entire trilogy. Nah. Nyet.
 

Jackpot

Banned
The way the religious Captain died is identical to Blackadder's cunning plan to kill McAngus by asking him to inspect the barrel of a cannon.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
For all of Prometheus' flaws, I'll admit I was curious with anticipation about the potential for Shaw and David to investigate the Engineer's homeworld and what would come of that in the next movie. For her to die off screen and completely throw away that storyline in favor of what seems like shoehorned Aliens...I find it underwhelming.
 
I'd say Alien 1,2,3, and as much as I hate to say it even Resurrection all have a crew that makes mistakes but they also have members who are competent.

Tennessee was that guy in Covenant. But he was the only one. Daniels comes close but her failure to identify David despite getting up close and personal to him disqualifies her in my eyes.
I'd argue the, "Take the ship carrying three thousand people into an unsafe area because I'm upset but know full well i can't really do anything" wasn't as smart as the movie wanted him to be.
 
Seriously. Maybe I missed something, but that seemed like a pointless move.
The people saying the characters in this movie were less stupid than Prometheus are kind of driving me crazy. Alien: Covenant's cast basically did every dumb thing wrong they could do to drive the plot and die. It was infuriating.
 
Alien: Covenant's cast basically did every dumb thing wrong they could do to drive the plot and die. It was infuriating.
Ridley's operating in that Scream 4 mode and you're missing the bigger picture! The fact that both spliff and sex deaths happen in the same movie is a clue... That and the mad scientist abomination machine motif in his necropolis demon lair wooing unsuspecting travelers for a meal.

Thinking on this more I'm definitely going for a second viewing- but I'm a huge Fassbender fan.
 

Rentahamster

Rodent Whores
The people saying the characters in this movie were less stupid than Prometheus are kind of driving me crazy. Alien: Covenant's cast basically did every dumb thing wrong they could do to drive the plot and die. It was infuriating.

"It's safe. I assure you."

"WELL ALLRIGHTY THEN, IF YOU SAY SO"

lmfao...
 

Sub_Level

wants to fuck an Asian grill.
"It's safe. I assure you."

"WELL ALLRIGHTY THEN, IF YOU SAY SO"

lmfao...

They could've made it so David just attacked him after he shot the neomorph, and forced him to be facehugged. Or even a scene of David triggering an egg to open, letting the facehugger go hunt on its own.

Multiple ways to write it. But we got the same old stick head in egg scene -_-
 
Ridley's operating in that Scream 4 mode and you're missing the bigger picture! The fact that both spliff and sex deaths happen in the same movie is a clue... That and the mad scientist abomination machine motif in his necropolis demon lair wooing unsuspecting travelers for a meal.

Thinking on this more I'm definitely going for a second viewing- but I'm a huge Fassbender fan.
That kind of horror isn't what I want in my Alien flick though, and given that this and Prometheus are trying to play with big ideas about humanity and creation, it just doesn't fit the tone.
 

shintoki

sparkle this bitch
They could've made it so David just attacked him after he shot the neomorph, and forced him to be facehugged. Or even a scene of David triggering an egg to open, letting the facehugger go hunt on its own.

Multiple ways to write it. But we got the same old stick head in egg scene -_-

Same old? You expected Ridley to actually have the villain say stick your head in the egg and holy shit... he is sticking his fucking head in the egg.
 
I enjoyed Prometheus a lot, so I'm in part bitter that all of the ideas there were killed in a very literal way to make room for mad scientist David.
Ah. I can imagine so. I thought it was absolutely spectacular to imply that Shaw was one of his initial tests, after turning on her, but yet would still build a memorial for her, but categorically drew her vivisected corpse.... Yeah. An incredible story at the expense of a great actress and role.

In terms of Alien lore though this is all divergent stuff in my mind... Too many years of Dark Horse comics have honed my appreciation to only the first two films.

I'll watch this ten more times before rewatching Predator 2 ever again.
 
Ah. I can imagine so. I thought it was absolutely spectacular to imply that Shaw was one of his initial tests, after turning on her, but yet would still build a memorial for her, but categorically drew her vivisected corpse.... Yeah. An incredible story at the expense of a great actress and role.

In terms of Alien lore though this is all divergent stuff in my mind... Too many years of Dark Horse comics have honed my appreciation to only the first two films.

I think she saw what he did, tried to get away, crashed the ship and died in that crash.
 
Ah. I can imagine so. I thought it was absolutely spectacular to imply that Shaw was one of his initial tests, after turning on her, but yet would still build a memorial for her, but categorically drew her vivisected corpse.... Yeah. An incredible story at the expense of a great actress and role.

In terms of Alien lore though this is all divergent stuff in my mind... Too many years of Dark Horse comics have honed my appreciation to only the first two films.

I'll watch this ten more times before rewatching Predator 2 ever again.
I'd say that was another problem with this--too much Dark Horse comics. And don't get me wrong, Fire and Stone was a lot of fun (though flawed), but it was comic book stuff. I want more in the actual films.

Predator 2 is great though. DUnno what you're on about there.
 

Ronin Ray

Member
I hated this movie so much and hate what Scott is doing to this franchise. If you want to make your strange Android religious movie then keep the xenos out like in Prometheus. I hate that they completely messed up the Xenomorphs. Like they were created in 10 years by an Android in a cave basically. No queen at all nope David made the eggs. The scary thing about Xenomorphs isn't them killing it's them taking you and storing you for an egg later. They're all about survival and spreading but this movie takes all of that out and the two xenos in the movie are just killers.
 

Astral Dog

Member
So this movie has many problems but the worst is that its a bit boring.
The good things however are fun:
evil David vs good Android
The Engineers getting killed
The white xenos
Walter <3
Some of the creepy scenery like the lab
 

border

Member
So at the end of the movie, why does David help the crew kill the xenomorph? Their lives are in his hands, and he could have just easily locked them in a room with the monster and continued about his nefarious experiments. His actions only make sense in the context of the writers trying to pull a ridiculous twist that everyone saw coming anyway.

It's frustrating that Shaw went through hell to make it out of Prometheus, only to suffer some lame offscreen death. And now the remaining crew of Covenant are inevitably going to be killed in between this film and the next.
 

Elitist1945

Member
So at the end of the movie, why does David help the crew kill the xenomorph? Their lives are in his hands, and he could have just easily locked them in a room with the monster and continued about his nefarious experiments. His actions only make sense in the context of the writers trying to pull a ridiculous twist that everyone saw coming anyway.

It's frustrating that Shaw went through hell to make it out of Prometheus, only to suffer some lame offscreen death. And now the remaining crew of Covenant are inevitably going to be killed in between this film and the next.

I assumed he wants to use them to test or something.
 

Toxi

Banned
I can't wait for the next movie where it's revealed David genetically engineered Ripley to be the ultimate counterpart to the aliens
 
Still love how for all of David's talk about the Xenomorph being "perfect" it has been canonically defeated by:

-Space Truckers

- Space Marines

- Space Convicts

-Space Smugglers

And if you also take AvP as canon, they've also been bested by:

-Earth Explorers

-Earth Idiots
 

border

Member
And if you also take AvP as canon, they've also been bested by:

-Earth Explorers

-Earth Idiots

At this point it's unclear if Scott even considers Aliens to be canon. I doubt he's really taking AvP into consideration at all. Though if David discovers a time machine and uses it to plant xenomorph eggs on Earth in early 21st century, that would be quite a development :)
 

Cormano

Member
So from what i can read, Ridley Scott just George Lucas'd Alien?

Good thing i watched Beauty and The Beast Yesterday just in the nick of time that my theater is going to drop it

Seems like it, and he does at least the 3rd one will be alright.
 
So at the end of the movie, why does David help the crew kill the xenomorph? Their lives are in his hands, and he could have just easily locked them in a room with the monster and continued about his nefarious experiments. His actions only make sense in the context of the writers trying to pull a ridiculous twist that everyone saw coming anyway.

It's frustrating that Shaw went through hell to make it out of Prometheus, only to suffer some lame offscreen death. And now the remaining crew of Covenant are inevitably going to be killed in between this film and the next.

He's watching his beastie work(which isn't the xenomorph yet) and seeing how it does. It's why he has that disappointed look on his face when they defeat it. If he intervened then what's the point of trying to create this "perfect organism"?

His actions completely make sense and is in keeping with David's character. He never actually kills anybody himself except for Shaw and Holloway from Prometheus. At the end of Covenant David is still trying to get to that final stage of the xeno we see in the '79 Alien.

I also think it's kind of poetic that Shaw went out with a whimper rather than a bang. I agree with Ridley that we didn't need to actually see David kill her, it's enough just to know he did. She was just a means to an end and one could assume he used her to create his first facehugger eggs thus making her the first queen.

I think it's kind of cool that since she couldn't have children in Prometheus, David probably thought he was giving her a gift in a ironic and twisted kind of way. He finally gave Shaw her wish of being able to give life and meet her maker...him.
 

Kart94

Banned
Seems like it, and he does at least the 3rd one will be alright.

Hopefully it doesn't end up with David somehow managing to create Ellen Ripley or some stupid shit. I am not in the mood to learn that an android with daddy issues created the Xenomorphs.

So would you guys say it is better or worse than Life?
 
Hopefully it doesn't end up with David somehow managing to create Ellen Ripley or some stupid shit. I am not in the mood to learn that an android with daddy issues created the Xenomorphs.

I think it's going to end with David giving birth to the final Xenomorph we see in the '79 Alien. Now whether he sacrifices himself or it's an accident, that's the question. The best way for this trilogy to end is for David(God) having to die in order for the true Devil(the Xeno with bio-mechanical parts or the "perfect organism") to be created.

I also feel that David will end up being the Space Jockey we see in the '79 Alien film. That is if Ridley gets a chance to finish this story, and looking at the box office, I'm not so sure he will, which would be a shame.
 

border

Member
I also think it's kind of poetic that Shaw went out with a whimper rather than a bang. I agree with Ridley that we didn't need to actually see David kill her, it's enough just to know he did. She was just a means to an end and one could assume he used her to create his first facehugger eggs thus making her the first queen.

I think it's kind of cool that since she couldn't have children in Prometheus, David probably thought he was giving her a gift in a ironic and twisted kind of way. He finally gave Shaw her wish of being able to give life and meet her maker...him.

I think this is a very great and interesting point! Shaw's death is at least interesting in that fashion. At the same time, the series has now developed a pattern of killing off principal characters in between sequels. So when the next movie comes out, why should I be at all emotionally invested in the survival of a main character? Even if (s)he makes it through the entire movie, there's still a good chance (s)he will just die due to some random happenstance after the credits roll.

It's not like I absolutely loved Shaw and wanted to see her story continued. Her slipshod death just represents them throwing the promise of Prometheus 2 out the window in favor of a by-the-numbers Alien romp. I was interested to see her explore the galaxy with David, and discover just what was going on with the Engineers. Instead we're basically told that that plot thread is irrelevant and not worth pursuing.
 
At this point it's unclear if Scott even considers Aliens to be canon. I doubt he's really taking AvP into consideration at all. Though if David discovers a time machine and uses it to plant xenomorph eggs on Earth in early 21st century, that would be quite a development :)

What Ridley does or does not consider canon anymore is irrelevant considering that 1.) Covenant's box office means a third film is this shit trilogy is no longer a sure thing 2.) even if he gets to make a third, considering how often the man changes his mind/is forced to change his mind by execs (Alien: Engineers and Prometheus: Paradise?) he'll probably retcon away all or most of this film by the third one, and 3.) the moment Scott kicks the bucket/steps down you know Fox is gonna plow ahead with the franchise remake/reboot/distant sequel/SOMETHING that lets the series start fresh and unshackle itself from the insane whimsy of this man.
 
I think this is a very great and interesting point! Shaw's death is at least interesting in that fashion. At the same time, the series has now developed a pattern of killing off principal characters in between sequels. So when the next movie comes out, why should I be at all emotionally invested in the survival of a main character? Even if (s)he makes it through the entire movie, there's still a good chance (s)he will just die due to some random happenstance after the credits roll.

It's not like I absolutely loved Shaw and wanted to see her story continued. Her slipshod death just represents them throwing the promise of Prometheus 2 out the window in favor of a by-the-numbers Alien romp. I was interested to see her explore the galaxy with David, and discover just what was going on with the Engineers. Instead we're basically told that that plot thread is irrelevant and not worth pursuing.

You answered you're own question, you shouldn't care. That's not the point of these movies. This isn't anything like the original Alien series which focused on a heroine. This series is exactly the opposite, focusing on the villain and relishing it. That's the bait-and-switch Scott pulls in Covenant, making you think the story is about the "heroes" and it's totally not. He also retro-actively made Prometheus about David as well by killing Shaw off the way he did.

Also, the first scene in Covenant basically states what the prime motivation is behind Ridley's vision for these films...David. That's why I don't understand the people who say it's an Alien retread. If anything he's using those tropes to trick the audience. Maybe that's why people are pissed but I love it and love the sadistic glee Covenant has in making the villain the "hero" by the end. You really aren't supposed to give a fuck about the humans in these movies. Maybe that's why Ridley makes them so stupid.
 

dofry

That's "Dr." dofry to you.
So, what a film. Or actually two films mashed into one. One about Alien and one about something totally different. Commence the rant.

Who wrote this? I love Ridley Scott to death but he should not be the one telling how Alien movies should be written. He is a good film maker if the has a good script but my gooooood can he think of too many bloated ideas for a movie if given the chance. Or, maybe it was the fault of the other writers. *why not both girl.gif*

They should not have asked "Where do the aliens come from?" No one wants to know. Keeping the mystery is better than trying to expose it.

Someone here said it really well, "erosion of mystery"

The gods plot line "you made us, we made the thing that kills you" was not a good metaphor for aliens. It was a good story for another movie entirely. For alien it does not work because that would not be the point of the movies. Treading in horror or suspense is what it should be about, buuuut as we all know a lot about the aliens, it's difficult to make that kind of suspense again. So, they went the wrong route and tried to explain it all. That's why the previous film was called Prometheus to distance itself a bit, but, they still tried the same thing here with more aliens.

Where was the suspense? The first scene with the locked woman had some panic in it but somehow failing in everything due to that panic and blowing yourself up in the process just made me cringe. They tried to convey how a person would act but come on. Treading back and forth from the door and radio. Locking the door for plot to have a gruesome scene, then unlocking so that we can let the chibi-alien out.

What was that sloppy cut reaching for the knife with Walter and David? They did not even try to hide that twist that they had. Showed it plain and simple. "oh, he's David! don't put me in hypersleep" whoop-de-fucking-do Sherlock.

Why did Scott put a short haired Ripley into the movie? To make the audience relate to her as Ripley and assume she's going to survive?

After the Walter-knife-David switcheroo the movie lost a lot of its steam, because you knew the ending and thus stopped rooting for the characters. No matter what, they are going to have that ending where David is in charge of 2000 colonists. It was underlined all too heavily throughout the movie. If there are colonists, bad shit is going to happen to them in this movie. But that suspense was wasted at the last part with that sloppy cut.

They were not scared of the alien at all in the spaceship. Just fairly relaxed and straightforwardly killed it. What on earth was that? Before that not being shit scared of a beast and just hanging from a flying platform trying to kill it with an assault rifle. Too much badass. Less is more. Be scared a bit. Everyone acts so cool except the panicking captains wife in the beginning.

Do you remember the names of the characters besides Tennessee, David and Walter? I don't.

Why was the shower scene ruined already in the trailer. No suspense waiting for that scene when it popped up? It's my fault I saw the trailer but, still. Leave something for the audience to guess.

There were too many not so subtle references to Alien and Aliens. Does every spaceship need the ducks with the waterglasses scene? Nitpicking, I know. But come on! Don't underline nudge nudge wink wink. Let the audiences find the subtleties.

There was just simply too much of everything in this movie. Colonizing planets, human embryos, black goo, ear worms, facehuggers, alien eggs, tiny aliens from the back, old chest aliens, guns, androids going crazy, engineers killed, that simply put, there was no time to build that suspense that I would have wanted. I did not have time to feel scared.

Still, better than Star Wars episodes 1-3.
 

Horse Detective

Why the long case?
What is the FUCKING point of regressing a species from being able to infect someone through spores, to requiring an egg and carrier, producing a seemingly stupider animal?

I mean, for the love of god, David nearly communicated with the earlier neomorph. The Xeno is not only more complex to produce, but less intelligent. WHY!?

I feel like an idiot, am I missing something?
 
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