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NOE: eShop age restrictions for the greater good (Applies to all of Europe)

What is this, a joke? Not only are they limiting when you can access that content, but to a FOUR HOUR window? Are they mental?

I have to WORK during the night. If I lived in Europe what exactly would they expect me to do? I'll be contacting Nintendo about this.
Yep, what a bloody joke. Nintendo just constantly makes stupid, fucked up decisions.
 

DrM

Redmond's Baby
You sure?

dummy_agerated.jpg

Holy hell, now this is something new for me.

Also, due to my work, i go to bed at 10 pm at latest. So, how will i buy mature stuff on eShop? If they are living in medieval ages, they should atleast widen the window from 10 pm - 7 am.
 

Bitmap Frogs

Mr. Community
Welp, this pretty much guarantees I won't be buying a Wii U.

Holy fucking shit... this is too stupid even for Nintendo.
 

Eusis

Member
Is this Joe Lieberman?

*looks at filename*

Why did you post Joe Lieberman?
He was an early advocate for having some control over violence in games, but I haven't heard much on that front lately, only with San Andreas in 2005. I'm guessing with how the Supreme Court case went and how things fell out over the last two decades there really isn't THAT much reason to be up in arms about it now. Ironically might be more of a problem for some of us, with kids going straight to CoD and blowing off anything else, but I guess that sort of thing always happens.
 

Pikma

Banned
I feel bad for the maintenance workers of Nintendo's HQ in Japan, must be tiring having to tight each and every one of the screws that hold the furniture everyday, having their offices upside-down must cost Nintendo a fortune. I heard they use socks as gloves, and wear their underwear as hats too.
 

NFreak

Member
This is crazy even for Nintendo. I mean come on, there is a parental control system in place. There is no need for this. What the fuck.
 
"just an annoyance"?



Yea, sure. You can't fucking buy what you want to buy. This is a trainwreck, not an annoyance. I'm surprised this thread isn't 10 pages because this is one of the most anti-consumer things I've read recently.

This is a bigger deal for 3rd parties. Consumers still can buy the games, but 3rd parties are limited to a 4 hour sales window. I hope some 3rd party publisher sues Nintendo over this, as it presents a clear manipulation of competition by favoring their own games.

At this point we can only spam Nintendos support, affected 3rd party supports, blogs and media channels... or simply wait for 3rd party support to dry up completely, which should happen after March 2013 anyway.
 

Rubius

Member
Because they are the restriction Nintendo deserves, but not the one we needs right now. So, we'll troll them, because they can take it. Because they not our heroes. They are a silent guardian. A watchful protector. A Dark Wii U for 100$ more.
 

wsippel

Banned
This is a bigger deal for 3rd parties. Consumers still can buy the games, but 3rd parties are limited to a 4 hour sales window. I hope some 3rd party publisher sues Nintendo over this, as it presents a clear manipulation of competition by favoring their own games.
Yeah, that's bullshit. Nobody can or will sue Nintendo over this. And how does this favor their own games? This will affect Nintendo published 18+ games like Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta as well.
 
Yeah, that's bullshit. Nobody can or will sue Nintendo over this. And how does this favor their own games? This will affect Nintendo published 18+ games like Ninja Gaiden or Bayonetta as well.
lol, no it wont, as their 18+ games are merely token games, funded to bolster their portfolio, nothing else. As if they expect those games to sell gangbusters.

Suing is ineffective anyway, 3rd parties should just get the hell out of the eShop and the WiiU alltogether, it's a hostile marketplace with retarded restrictions and very limited reach. The sane thing for them to do is to withhold all of their content unless a fair marketplace is provided. They're not even losing anything, as with the current absolutely braindead policy, they're not going to sell anything either.

At this point, Nintendo really deserves losing all of their market relevance as they are shooting themselves in both legs with a minigun.

This move really belongs in the hall of fame of retarded business practises.
Hopefully 3rd parties will jump ship and ignore this POS online store.
 

King_Moc

Banned
lol, no it wont, as their 18+ games are merely token games, funded to bolster their portfolio, nothing else. As if they expect those games to sell gangbusters.

Suing is ineffective anyway, 3rd parties should just get the hell out of the eShop and the WiiU alltogether, it's a hostile marketplace with retarded restrictions and very limited reach. The sane thing for them to do is to withhold all of their content unless a fair marketplace is provided. They're not even losing anything, as with the current absolutely braindead policy, they're not going to sell anything either.

At this point, Nintendo really deserves losing all of their market relevance as they are shooting themselves in both legs with a minigun.

This move really belongs in the hall of fame of retarded business practises.
Hopefully 3rd parties will jump ship and ignore this POS online store.

As stupid as Nintendo is being here, you really just sound like you hate them regardless.
 

krumble

Member
On a whim I decided I wanted to buy ACIII this morning..
Not on my wiiU according to Nintendo, I can't even buy the game during the day at a weekend....
 

Durante

Member
Do we know this is down to Germany?
Considering that every single other European online game store (on consoles and PC) works in a sane manner I think it would be strange to blame anyone other than Nintendo for this.

Edit: The issue isn't so much what happens in Germany, it's what happens in all the rest of Europe.
 

Autofokus

Member
Just a heads-up, the ubishop.com store does the same for PC-Downloads (at least in germany). Tried to get ACIII (got a voucher with my new video card) and got the "you can only buy this item between 22:00-06:00" message. It's ridiculous, ACIII isn't even a 18-title - it got an 16 rating. Also funny, you need to be 18+ to create a shop-account, makes the restriction even more hilarious.
 

Erethian

Member
It's interesting to contrast a decision like this, with Nintendo's other eShop policies. Like giving developers full control over pricing (including sales), and not charging for updates.

Also I didn't know Germany had adopted more stringent legislation on what can be viewed at what times. Whereas here in Australia we seem to be improving in terms of our handling of mature videogame content.
 
Considering that every single other European online game store (on consoles and PC) works in a sane manner I think it would be strange to blame anyone other than Nintendo for this.

While Nintendo are being stupid it is as result of over reaction to German laws
 

sakipon

Member
Just a heads-up, the ubishop.com store does the same for PC-Downloads (at least in germany). Tried to get ACIII (got a voucher with my new video card) and got the "you can only buy this item between 22:00-06:00" message. It's ridiculous, ACIII isn't even a 18-title - it got an 16 rating. Also funny, you need to be 18+ to create a shop-account, makes the restriction even more hilarious.

So are we sure this is Nintendo's decision and not Ubisoft's?
 
As stupid as Nintendo is being here, you really just sound like you hate them regardless.
Yeah, i hate them so much, I bought all of their home consoles, have a 3DS, an XL, got the ZombiU premium edition, Blops2, Nintendoland and JD4 at launch.

Instead of dismissing my post with the equivalent of the 'why you mad tho?' meme, maybe consider that some of us here don't believe in accepting everything a company does and still enjoy their product. Gasp it's almost as if the world isn't all black and white.

Nintendo deserves all the shit it gets over this and I for one think that they are positioning themselves outside of market trends, and impairing user experience through utter boneheaded stupidity, and limiting 3rd party content to absolute shit conditions.
I don't see why 3rd parties should have to deal with so much incompetence when there are several better outlets to sell their content. And I expect 3rd parties to evluate the value proposition of the WiiU eShop, and either push for fair conditions, or just stop bothering. Given current market developments, I'd rather expect them to simply stop bothering.
As a customer I expect to get my moneys worth, and with the eShop I absolutely feel ripped off. I don't see it as a viable venue for doing shopping, as it is unbalanced and skewed towards certain content, and I don't see it as a viable place for 3rd parties to sell their catalogue. And instead of just throwing my arms in the air, going 'lol nintendo' or 'relax guys, it's not that bad' I at least try to get some discussion going on. And I just happen to have a very negative outlook on this particular matter.

But yeah, keep ignoring my points and continue on making silly remarks over my mod given new name. Truly the hallmark of a great rebuttal.
 

wsippel

Banned
Considering that every single other European online game store (on consoles and PC) works in a sane manner I think it would be strange to blame anyone other than Nintendo for this.
As stated multiple times in this thread, every single other European online game store isn't operated from Germany. And even in Germany, this shouldn't be an issue anymore, but a law that would have made client site parental controls legally sufficient fell through two years ago, so youth protection is still the responsibility of the content provider.
 

Durante

Member
As stated multiple times in this thread, every single other European online game store isn't operated from Germany. And even in Germany, this shouldn't be an issue anymore, but a law that would have made client site parental controls legally sufficient fell through two years ago, so youth protection is still the responsibility of the content provider.
And as replied many times in this thread, then it is entirely Nintendo's fault for operating their online store for all of Europe out of Germany.
 

wsippel

Banned
And as replied many times in this thread, then it is entirely Nintendo's fault for operating their online store for all of Europe out of Germany.
Well, assuming the law had passed two years ago, there would have been no reason to move the online operations elsewhere. A new law is in the works ever since, but it's going a lot slower than expected.

I think they will have to move their whole online operation sooner rather than later anyway, though. Things will get really complicated once a Wii U game is put on the Index otherwise (which I assume is a given for Ninja Gaiden).
 

snap0212

Member
A couple of things should be noted. What’s happening over at Nintendo of Europe (so in Germany) is referred to as self-regulation in combination with something called the Jugendmedienschutz-Staatsvertrag (JMStV).

Germany does not forbid Nintendo to sell 18 rated games during the day.
There are absolutely no laws that would force Nintendo to not sell games during the day, for example. However, since there is the JMStV, there are things Nintendo has to do (by law). §5 of the JMStV basically says that if you’re selling or advertising things that are not meant for minors (usually this means rating 16+ or 18+), you have to make sure that they “usually don’t see them”. Not this is not meant as in “Children must not see that these games are being sold” but - since this law was not built around the internet - is more about questionable advertisements on TV, for example.

How can they do that? There was this 10pm to 3am time frame thrown around. However, that time frame (to show restricted content) between 10pm and 3am doesn’t exist in any kind of recommendation or law, or the JMStV. Two different time frames are mentioned in the JMStV: 10pm to 6am & 11pm to 6am.

There’s a second option for Nintendo, though. They could restrict the access to that content through “technical or other means” that would make access to that content for children/people under 18 “impossible” or “substantially harder”.

So it looks like Nintendo is using a bit of this and a bit of that to make sure they’re on the safe side. What shouldn’t be ignored is that Nintendo has the option to get data from their customers who want to prove that they’re 18 or older. Sony does this by making their PSN cards 18+ rated (I’ve been asked for identification in the past) and Microsoft just doesn’t give a crap at all. The tabaco industry does it via something called the Schufa. They’re usually being asked for your details when you want to get a cell phone contract (to give information about your credit rating) but they can also be contacted to simply show if you’re 18 or not. Nintendo, in Germany, has ways to avoid this hogwash but they don’t for some weird reason. Considering that an account would have to only be approved a single time, I guess that it would be good for them in the long run, though.
 

jimi_dini

Member
it is as result of reaction to stupid German laws

fixed

There was once a German website dedicated to documention of censorship of movies and videogames, which was hosted from within Germany. It was called schnittberichte.de. This site got shut down because of German youth protection laws in 2002. A replacement site was created called schnittberichte.com and it's hosted outside of Germany now, so that German laws don't apply anymore.

I guess the actual problem is that Nintendo is hosting from within Germany.
 

LuchaShaq

Banned
The for the children attitude is gross. God forbid an adult works a night shift to provide for their kids but wants to download an M rated game to relax on their time off?

At this point Nintendo should just hire a tech company to overhaul their OS/online network from top to bottom and then just focus on making hardware margins and evergreen software.
 

PaulLFC

Member
This is insane. If they have to have the restriction in Germany to comply with the law, fair enough. But a) why do PSN/XBL not have this restriction? and b) that is no reason to force the policy on other countries where that law does not apply.
 
This is insane. If they have to have the restriction in Germany to comply with the law, fair enough. But a) why do PSN/XBL not have this restriction? and b) that is no reason to force the policy on other countries where that law does not apply.

Pan/xbla are not run out of Germany
 

jimi_dini

Member
This is insane. If they have to have the restriction in Germany to comply with the law, fair enough. But a) why do PSN/XBL not have this restriction?

At least on PSN Germany, there are no game demos or videos or anything of such games at all. After the PSN outage Sony gave out free games. And in case of the PSN Germany Infamous + Dead Nation were removed because of those laws.

b) that is no reason to force the policy on other countries where that law does not apply.

If you host from within Germany, German laws apply for everything.
Even if you host from outside of Germany but are a German citizen, you may get into trouble. That's why the one responsible for Schnittberichte.com/Movie-Censorship.com is from Austria.

So the actual problem is:
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Support/Contact/Contact-621598.html

This website is operated by
Nintendo of Europe GmbH
Nintendo Center
D-63760 Grossostheim
Germany

fucking Nintendo EU based in
fucking Germany
 
Wait, all of Europe? If Germany has shitty censorship laws then Nintendo better move their headquarters somewhere else. This combined with having purchases tied to your physical console means that my money will stay put in my wallet.
 

CrunchinJelly

formerly cjelly
At least on PSN Germany, there are no game demos or videos or anything of such games at all. After the PSN outage Sony gave out free games. And in case of the PSN Germany Infamous + Dead Nation were removed because of those laws.



If you host from within Germany, German laws apply for everything.
Even if you host from outside of Germany but are a German citizen, you may get into trouble. That's why the one responsible for Schnittberichte.com/Movie-Censorship.com is from Austria.

So the actual problem is:
http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Support/Contact/Contact-621598.html

This website is operated by
Nintendo of Europe GmbH
Nintendo Center
D-63760 Grossostheim
Germany

fucking Nintendo EU based in
fucking Germany
I don't buy this excuse, though. They have regional offices all over Europe they could use. It's not like the servers are in Germany. Last I checked a few days ago it seemed all the auth servers were actually in the US and run by NOA, while content was coming from Akamai in Switzerland, but this may differ.
 

wsippel

Banned
This is insane. If they have to have the restriction in Germany to comply with the law, fair enough. But a) why do PSN/XBL not have this restriction? and b) that is no reason to force the policy on other countries where that law does not apply.
In Germany, I can sell Bratwurst and beer to customers from the UAE, even if it's illegal there. On the other hand, I can't sell dope over the Internet even if I only ship to customers in the Netherlands. Because German law applies. It's completely irrelevant where the customer lives.

And as I just wrote, that's probably going to be a huge headache once a game gets put on the Index. No eShop listing at all and no Miiverse community for those games, possibly.
 
This should really be something we can turn off in the parental controls or something.. but we can't

if they were going to insist on this I'd have appreciated clearer info on the eshop about the block, and appreciated a window that opens at 9 or 10 o clock rather than 11!

I bought ZombiU via retail this week because I couldn't be bothered sussing out why I couldn't access it via the eshop.

I'm not angry about it, but its silly, and I've done myself out of digital promotion points.
 

jimi_dini

Member
I don't buy this excuse, though. They have regional offices all over Europe they could use. It's not like the servers are in Germany. Last I checked a few days ago it seemed all the auth servers were actually in the US and run by NOA, while content was coming from Akamai in Switzerland, but this may differ.

Like I already said: nintendo.co.uk is operated by Nintendo Germany. Which means German laws apply. It doesn't matter at all, if the actual servers are in US, UK or Afghanistan. It doesn't even matter, if the website content is in English or Japanese. They would have to change this to get rid of those laws.

They can't just make a country selection and based on that change how the site or servers behave. German courts would say that it's really easy for a child to change the country and by doing so wouldn't be "protected" anymore. It's totally retarded, but that's the way it is.
 

wsippel

Banned
I don't buy this excuse, though. They have regional offices all over Europe they could use. It's not like the servers are in Germany. Last I checked a few days ago it seemed all the auth servers were actually in the US and run by NOA, while content was coming from Akamai in Switzerland, but this may differ.
Where the servers are is (almost) completely irrelevant. What's important is this:

I. Nintendo Network Agreement

This is a binding agreement between you, an individual, and Nintendo of Europe GmbH, Nintendo Center, 63760 Grossostheim, Germany.

[...]

1.14 Governing Law

This Agreement and any claims under this Agreement shall be governed by the laws of Germany, to the exclusion of the UN Sales Convention on Contracts for the International Sale of Goods and without reference to conflict of laws principles.
http://ms.nintendo-europe.com/terms/wiiu/index.html
 

M3d10n

Member
Like I already said: nintendo.co.uk is operated by Nintendo Germany. Which means German laws apply. It doesn't matter at all, if the actual servers are in US, UK or Afghanistan. It doesn't even matter, if the website content is in English or Japanese. They would have to change this to get rid of those laws.

They can't just make a country selection and based on that change how the site or servers behave. German courts would say that it's really easy for a child to change the country and by doing so wouldn't be "protected" anymore. It's totally retarded, but that's the way it is.

Would IP geotracking be a viable alternative, so the restrictions are only applied to German IPs? It's very hard to get around.

Also, did anyone try to get around this by changing the system clock?
 

wsippel

Banned
Would IP geotracking be a viable alternative, so the restrictions are only applied to German IPs? It's very hard to get around.
Heavily doubt that would fly if challenged. Only thing that would really work long term would be to establish a "Nintendo Network Europe LLC" in the UK or something and transfer all online operations. Pretty sure NoE will have to do just that sooner rather than later.
 
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