lolwut
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DICE: Anti Used System 'can be a win and a loss'.
- Thread starter Saty
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lolwut
Why would I want to juggle 200 accounts?
I love how developers want their games to be viewed as art and/or entertainment spectacles ala a Hollywood blockbuster; and then turn around at the point of sale and say "wait wait wait wait, we're going to sell this to you as if it were a piece of productive corporate software."
It truly is a sight to behold.
It truly is a sight to behold.
NullPointer
Member
They make disposable entertainment units by design and then seem shocked and dismayed that we don't cherish them as precious heirlooms to vouchsafe in our collections forever. While they see innovations meant to lead to growth and the subsequent and inevitable backlash by a loud minority I see only a group of companies acting against their own long term interests.
You got that right.
I will NOT juggle 500 accounts and make a new friends list for every game
Have you tried reselling your movie ticket?
I literally would have no problem doing this.
Before or after it's used?
Pureauthor
Member
Well when I realized I had a scheduling conflict about five minutes after I'd bought the ticket the guy at the booth very nicely told me that they'd sell the seat to someone else instead, and if they could do that my old ticket was void and I could get a refund.
That count?
NullPointer
Member
You mean that $6-15 ticket for those 100+ million dollar extravaganzas? No. I haven't.
After.
Have you tried reselling an event ticket after the event have passed?
Wouldn't a DVD / Blu-Ray be a closer analogy?
Nah that would break his point.
Pureauthor
Member
On a theoretical level there is absolutely nothing preventing me from selling a movie ticket after the movie has passed, just as there is nothing preventing me from selling a games disc to be used as a drinks coaster by someone else.
It's just not very likely to happen.
It's just not very likely to happen.
Of course not. But if they are modelling themselves after Hollywood blockbusters, that might be their point too. The anti-used point isn't so strange if you're modelling yourself after an industry that by definition doesn't allow reselling and tries to sell the same product three times. (Cinema, DVD, TV-channels)
No. The major hype for a hollywood blockbuster is for the cinematic release. The DVD release is always a smaller event. I'm not trying to make the comparison based on actual merit though (Where I would agree on the basis that discs = discs), but on a thought process if you're modelling yourself after Hollywood.
Your analogy is flawed, the equivalent of the cinema (going out to pictures) is, and have always been, the arcades.
Might as well go with car analogies it's a lot closer than comparing boxed retail to cinema.
Have you seen the first post I quoted? I'm working on the basis that developers are comparing games to hollywood blockbuster releases. I'm not making an analogy myself.
Echoing other posters' sentiments that this industry desperately needs a crash.
If your business model depends on the removal of basic property rights that have existed since the dawn of civilization (and are indeed one of the major pillars that define "civilization"), then you don't deserve to be in business.
Produce a product. Sell it. You got paid for what you produced, whether the product eventually passes through one pair of hands or a dozen. Simple as that.
If your business model depends on the removal of basic property rights that have existed since the dawn of civilization (and are indeed one of the major pillars that define "civilization"), then you don't deserve to be in business.
Produce a product. Sell it. You got paid for what you produced, whether the product eventually passes through one pair of hands or a dozen. Simple as that.
Funny that you ask.
I was once in a movie that really sucked. After 1/3rd of the movie, I went out with my buddy, asked for a refund and we got all our monies back. Does this count? Would be nice to get that for games as well.
SmokedMeat
Gamer™
So now used games are holding back oirignal new ips lol.
That's properly there next try. Every new controller comes with fingerprint scanners, so that only the registered buyer can play the game, and the new Xbox Kinetic Version with facial recognition will only play the game, if all people in the room pay a license. Even before you buy a game the game companies will ask your internet-provider, if you ever illegal downloaded a game.
Exactly. They release games on a yearly cycle with pre-planned obsolescence, yet we're supposed to keep them forever?
Rhazer Fusion
Member
Lol no......I disagree.
People will just be much, much more selective in what they buy which can be very bad for companies with unproven and new IP's or games, shaky track records or games that aren't highly rated.
Version 3.0
Member
Go to eBay. Used concert tickets do get sold all the time.
Fredrik
Member
There will be a huge backlash to this.
Right now I might buy a $20 7/10 game, used, 3 months after launch, end up loving it, make a LTTP thread and talk about it with friends, which in turn might sell some "new" games because of word of mouth.
With this anti-used system I'll only buy 10/10 games, Zelda/Uncharted/Skyrim/Mario/etc. I won't ever go near a $60 7/10 game. And no more LTTP threads and word of mouth sales.
Good Luck selling your games, devs.
Right now I might buy a $20 7/10 game, used, 3 months after launch, end up loving it, make a LTTP thread and talk about it with friends, which in turn might sell some "new" games because of word of mouth.
With this anti-used system I'll only buy 10/10 games, Zelda/Uncharted/Skyrim/Mario/etc. I won't ever go near a $60 7/10 game. And no more LTTP threads and word of mouth sales.
Good Luck selling your games, devs.
PC (Steam, activations, etc) works the same way that the new consoles are going to work. You own a license, not a game.
The Wii U is in on this as well. There is an NFC reader built into the controller to make it easy. Read Iwata's latest Q&A speaking about how all games on the Wii U will be available via retail disc, their own e-store, and via download codes/cards from retailers. AKA every game has a license that must be activated. This isn't going to work unless all the publishers are in on it. And they are.
Publishers have already made it clear that the console makers are listening.
You must be my soulmate
OldJadedGamer
Banned
I got $50 for an old used Nirvana concert ticket.
Liberty4all
Banned
Yup. I'm one of those guys. And yes they will lose me.
Basically I'll only be able to buy triple A "for sure franchises" stuff next gen if the resale market goes away.
So basically the opposite of what's said in the OP.
No, your son is not a customer of that author/publisher. YOU are the customer since you purchased the product, but your son is not.
Absolutely. I can't remember the last time I actually paid full cash for a game (except for DD, obvz); a trade's almost always been behind it.
While he isn't strictly, no, isn't there a lot of mental mindshare going on there? Like, isn't he likely to become a future paying customer if he's permitted to read his parent's book?
Perhaps, but that's not what is being questioned. DICE does not view people who play their games as customers unless that individual actually purchased the game new. Don't like their viewpoint? Don't buy their games. I doubt it will mean anything to them though.
My brother and one of my friends do this.
Also, this effects people who borrow games to try them out. Unless I've missed something, I don't see how borrowing/renting games is going to work.
Publishers are so shortsighted and just want to get more money but don't think about how much they'll actually lose with something like this.
Liberty4all
Banned
The real problem is that publishers are trying to get money they were never going to get from us anyways.
If the used market dies people will buy LESS games not MORE.
Yeah, but Steam games tend to cost a hell of a lot less than console games.
While I on a personal level think a future without second hand games is a petty anti-consumer step in the wrong direction for the industry, I'm certain they're doing their due dilligence as-we-speak.
Sales data from XBL, PSN and e.g. Steam/Origin is currently providing participating publichers with a pretty good idea on the possibilities of such a path for the next gen related to current retail numbers of new vs. second hand games sales.
The on-line pass has already paved the way for implementing a lock-out on second hand sales, and should be a no brainer for console manufacturers to implement. Would be sweet to get a peek at the business cases being pitched right now and some of the underlying data being used for deciding on the go/no-go.
Sales data from XBL, PSN and e.g. Steam/Origin is currently providing participating publichers with a pretty good idea on the possibilities of such a path for the next gen related to current retail numbers of new vs. second hand games sales.
The on-line pass has already paved the way for implementing a lock-out on second hand sales, and should be a no brainer for console manufacturers to implement. Would be sweet to get a peek at the business cases being pitched right now and some of the underlying data being used for deciding on the go/no-go.
But on PC you (a) can often buy the game much cheaper and (b) if some publisher decides to "revoke" your "licence" after you bought it, you can just crack it and continue playing.
The first part of that is because of the platform in question (Steam) which regularly has sales. I'm not sure if the same types of sales would apply on any of the consoles (somehow I doubt it). The second part of your statement is just piracy.
JimmyRustler
Gold Member
Again... no one is forcing you to play games where game developers are trying to screw you. Sorry, in the age of internet there is no fucking chance for you to stumble into an user exploiting game. There isn't even a chance to stumble into a game you don't like. You can find reviews, demos, videos, everthing of a game so you know exactly what you'll get when you buy it. There is no excuse for lettingyourself "abuse" by a game company.
And since we now cleared that up and we know that everyone knows what he gets when he buys a game, I don't see one single valid argument to not pay the people who give you what you want.
I generally don't understand what the hell is going on here. Although I don't buy a single game used, I don't ever spend more than 100 EUR per month for games - even at the full packed holiday season. And guess what? I still have a huge backlog of games I just can't find the time to play. What the hell are you people doing in order to have to insist that much on used games sales??
papersleeves
Member
Yes, yes.....and?
Everyone knows this. Everyone also knows you pay a lot less for it, at least, on Steam, if you want to wait for the fairly close sales event that's about to happen right next the corner.
I have no problem paying for a "license" when I buy DD games on my PC, as long as the price reflects that it's a fucking license. Steam is good at this, so I don't complain.
If they dare trying this approach for the next generation, then good for them. But if it turns out it was all a fraud (you know what I mean) with more greedy intentions and more anti-consumer bullshits, then let them burn until there is no remnant anymore.
Mithos
Member
If a developer would do that they BETTER give my money back.
And the thing that lead to piracy is fraud from the publisher, taking away something you payed for without giving the money back.
I do, and I keep cracks so I can play my games whenever Steam's offline mode doesn't work like it's supposed to, too.
Why would it be piracy to crack a game you purchased a valid license for? I bet pretty much any judge would rule you had a every right to use the software if you could produce a receipt showing you paid for it.
You are purchasing a license to use said software on PC (and on future consoles). Not the software itself - you do NOT own it. The EULA you accept says just that. If your Steam account is revoked by Valve, for example, you no longer own these licenses that you paid for. Cracking them, at that point, has no gray area and is illegal.
Piracy is the practice of attacking and robbing ships at sea. It would have to be investigated whether cracking a game you bought is against some copyright law, but I doubt that this is the case in my country. Even if it were, I would have no moral qualms doing so. However, on closed platforms you usually don't have the option and are at the mercy of shitty publisher policies such as this.
EULAs are not law so breaking one is not an illegal act, they are not part of established copyrite law. A Eula may be an enforceable document but that is something that would need to be decided in court if you violate the terms of that contract you may be subject to whatever clauses are in that contract, i.e. revocation of you Steam account but that doesn't mean you don't still have a legal license to play the game under copyrite law.
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