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Hearthstone |OT9| Our raid wiped in Icecrown Citadel

Hycran

Banned
Just read Iksar's post, seems a bit naff, but whatever, they will see how it goes but i expect changes before next month is over.

Also, if anyone has street fighter x tekken and could do me a favour with one of the trophies (the replay download thing on playstation) please send a pm, would greatly appreciate it.
 
Too many people picking the obvious winners (Ukraine) means they will lose spectacularly as quickly as possible.

I mean I picked Kolento during the Spring Championships and I got 4 packs so there's that too. Before that, I always just got 1 pack. So hoping Kolento can break through for me again lol.
 

fertygo

Member
Yeah I doubt they do anything this fast, but before october or early its seems safe to assume there will be change if things stick.
 
Just won a match because my opponent used Army of the Dead in Resurrect Priest. He hadn't played an actual minion outside of Barnes, so it was a reasonable play.

He destroyed all of his resurrect cards.

Thank you, Lich King! What a great card.
 

wiibomb

Member
Just won a match because my opponent used Army of the Dead in Resurrect Priest. He hadn't played an actual minion outside of Barnes, so it was a reasonable play.

He destroyed all of his resurrect cards.

Thank you, Lich King! What a great card.

I messed up similarly on my raza priest. played army of the dead, got 2 synergy lowdrops (one of them was glimmeroot, don't remember the other), burned eternal servitude and other spells, conceded because I was against a control warrior.

terrible play. I know.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
neat, thanks. Any gaf opinions on it?

If you're new it is very helpful. It does a good job at teaching you how to draft. There's probably only two or three cards per draft pro would go against it, and never by that much.

If you're a veteran, it's mostly useful for it listing out the synergies for you, so you don't have to look through every one of your cards every time there's a potential synergy. I also usually use the raw tier list rating for tie breakers when I can't decide, that they list in the discription text with the synergies. I think my biggest complaint is I think it overly devalues 3+ of the same good cards in your deck. ADWCTA and merps are way smarter about arena than me and personally program each card for how many is too much, but I don't know if it's right from personal experience.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Speaking of ADWCTA and merps, ADWCTA seems to think Druid is new arena number one, because of both the great KotFT cards and the good synergy pool. Merps calls it tier one but won't commit to best class overall.

So don't expect to escape Druid in arena.
 

Dahbomb

Member
Ok time to have a serious discussion about class cards.


Druids:

Innervate is far and away the #1 Druid card. It might even in fact be the #1 basic class card in the game.

It's Innervate > Swipe and then everything else. Swipe is used in just about every Druid deck except the most aggressive, board centric decks. Wild Growth isn't used in any aggressive Druid deck so that card is actually balanced (very strong but balanced).

If any Druid card should ever be changed its Innervate. The only defenders of Innervate are those who clutch to the ye old "class identity" excuse but as far as I can tell, tempo plays aren't Druid's identity it's ramp. Wild Growth is a very different card from Innervate yet they are both piled in the same category erroneously.


Warrior:

War Axe isn't as strong as Innervate. War Axe in the past has been cut down to 1 of. That new Dead Man deck for example usually only runs one War Axe. The card is insanely strong too but in particular metas it's not that strong.

There is no other Warrior card that is on that level. It used to be Execute because some how even aggressive decks sometimes used Execute because it was too efficient but now that is nerfed.


Mage:

Fireball is definitely Mage's best card and is usually used as a two of in every kind of deck that isn't Reno Mage. Only time I have seen people cut a copy of Fireball is in extremely greedy, grinder, control heavy Mages.

I could see a good case for them nerfing Fireball to 5 damage. It would still be a usable, strong card in that case but of course the class would be a lot worse because it hurts their overall range when it comes to combos.

I think Frostbolt is kinda too strong too but it's fine I think.

Polymorph is in no way that strong and I don't know why people lump it in with Fireball and Frostbolt. Very few Mages use two in a deck, some even cut it out entirely. Freeze Mage doesn't use any Polylmorph. The card is just right, no need to change it or anything.


Paladin:

Truesilver GG is among the strongest Paladin card and lately I have seen people use Divine Blade over it to get a weapon out faster. Truesilver is definitely high on the power level but it's fine for the most part.

Tirion is definitely very strong and Blizzard has brought up the card before. It was brought up in reference to CotW and Blizzard kinda implied that they were both of similar power level. Well CotW got nerfed and Tirion remains one of the strongest cards in the game. I will let Tirion slide because it is a Legendary as long as they don't keep printing bogus cards like Stonehill Defender that allows Paladin to have multiple Tirions.


Rogue:

Preparation has definitely been a design limiting card just like Innervate. Like I really think Preparation is an insane card but at least it fits the Rogue play style and is still a good two tiers below Innervate in terms of power level (that should tell you what I think of Innervate). I don't think they should change it and certainly not all Rogue decks use two Preps (minion centric Rogue decks don't use it but it's hard to make minion centric Rogue decks in general).

People point to cards like Backstab, Eviscerate and Van Cleef but nah those cards are fine. They are just solid, strong cards and Back Stab is an essential combo activator for Rogue, they actually really need a card like that.


Shaman:

People bring up Polymorph but Hex is a much stronger card. And even then Hex usually is cut down to just one, sometimes not even one if it's an aggressive deck (have people already forgotten Aggro Shaman? LOL!). Other than that no Shaman card is too strong anymore.


Hunter:

Highmane is almost Legendary status in how strong it is. That said Highmane isn't used in Face Hunter decks so it's not an auto include.

And neither is Houndmaster so stop even bringing up that card. Hunters would love it if they never have to run Houndmaster because they hate having to play a naked Houndmaster on turn 4.

In fact, the Hunter card that might actually eclipse both Highmane and Houndmaster is Animal Companion. Just about every Hunter deck runs Animal Companion, whether they are slow or fast. And the RNG aspect of Animal Companion is also infuriating. I think they should just nerf Huffer to 1 HP or something.


Priest:

Power Word Shield is definitely over powered and every Priest that isn't Reno Priest runs two of. That said Power Word Shield isn't big impact and doesn't win the game by itself. No other Priest card is noteworthy and that includes the Shadow Pains/Deaths. The issue is that Priest rarely has had chance to play aggressive decks, they would cut those cards in a heart beat if they could make a face deck as those are control cards and that's generally what Priest plays. Priest is still free to 4 attack minions despite having efficient removals.


Warlock:

Legitimately weak cards that are balanced around the hero power. They already nerfed or removed most of their strong cards anyway.



So yeah, there aren't even that many strong basic class cards to talk about. When looking at the list, Innervate far and away exceeds all other classic cards, at least from the current crop that remains.
 

Pooya

Member
If they want to rotate a shaman card some day it has to be flametongue. As long it exists, there will be some form of aggro shaman in the game. It's far too good.
 

Dahbomb

Member
If they want to rotate a shaman card some day it has to be flametongue. As long it exists, there will be some form of aggro shaman in the game. It's far too good.
It's not too good and it's fine that a class can have a card that enables an aggressive archetype. Flametongue is garbage without a board present. If you are winning on board then Flametongue will just allow you to win more but if you are losing then Flametongue isn't going to win back the board.

Think about it, Flametongue is 0/3 with no board. With one minion on board it gives 2/3 stats with the 2 being an initiative effect like Direwolf. Having it on one minion is balanced, not even that obscene. Having it on two minions is when it's actually strong but you can't always guarantee to have 2 minions on board, same for Dire Wolf Alpha or Defender of Argus.
 
Well, we don't want aggro to disappear, right?

Also, I got to rank 1 tonight. Super intense matches all the way up. My Jade Druid deck is pretty different from most, but I think I figured out an optimized Wild version before most have.

Highlight of the evening was a Resurrect Priest who summoned 4 Obsidian Statues and 3 Lich Kings starting from turn 4, and I still won. I actually think he could have won, but he started summoning TLK instead of more statues, and I thought that wasn't a great idea in the matchup.

Re: amazing class cards.

Divine Blade isn't about getting a weapon out faster. It's because with the addition of the new 1/1 DS taunt there are now enough DS minions in a midrange Paladin deck to justify the buff it gives. Re: Tirion - I don't even know how they would move it. Would another Paladin legendary take its place in Classic? It would be weird for Paladin to be short a legendary. I think Divine Favor is the only Paladin card that I absolutely loathe. In general the class is pretty fair.

Don't nerf Huffer. :p He's fine.

I think you forgot Mana Wyrm. It might not be auto-include, but it's part of why War Axe determines games. No War Axe means a Mana Wyrm might run you over. Less so these days because they aren't giving Mages many tempo cards.
 
there'll never be a lack of tools to flood the board/ Flametongue is fine but it's the closest shaman got to being busted.

Divine Blade already replaced Truesilver for the most part prior to the relese of FT for the very same reason FWA determines games, the 4 healths are irrelevant when you get to clear the likes of a mana wyrm or warleader
 

kirblar

Member
The issues w/ Jade Druid are reminiscent of when you had GWU Sphinx's Revelation decks featuring Thragtusk in MTG that could permanently recycle their graveyard w/ Elixir of Immortality. You just ramp into value into value and make it so you just win by attrition. Here's an example: http://magicgameplan.com/blog/bant-control-4-sphinxs-revelation-rtr-standard/

Elixir was secretly the problem card because it meant the deck didn't have to have to invest in a "real" win condition.

Cards like Jade Idol and Elixir of Immortality just aren't healthy if they're actually good and I dislike the Archbishop/Dead Man's Hand getting added for the same reason.
 
I look at Jade Idol like an OTK card. A lot of other classes, if they can cycle through their entire deck, have a way to kill you in one turn, and you have no way to stop it unless you happen to play a card like Dirty Rat in your deck. Quest Mage, Deathknight Paladin, Deathknight Anduin, Mill Rogue, Malygos Anything, and OTK Fatigue Warrior are examples of this. But Druid gets its reward in a very "Druid" kind of way - massive minions you have been ramping up all game.

Unless you think Blizzard needs to delete all of these combo decks, I don't see how you can hate on Jade Idol. There are no drawn-out control matches anymore. Every deck has a win condition, and everyone is racing to get it into his or her hand. The entire idea of just "playing for value" is ancient. There's SO MUCH value going around right now that exhausting your opponent's resources only happens when the deck only has a few cards left in it...and often not even then.

That's why I think Jade Idol got a hate card - it's the key part in the Jade Druid combo, just like Ice Block and Sorcerer's Apprentice.
 

Pooya

Member
Swipe mention by iksar isn't odd actually. Druid isn't supposed to have good aoe like rogue but swipe is better than anything rogue has.

Druid also has another spell that rarely ever saw play because of swipe, Starfall. Swipe is a basic card, Starfall is a collectible card and for 5 mana, it usually does less damage and it doesn't even hit face. Relatively speaking, swipe is too good even among druid cards.

But I feel if they change swipe druid will be too weak to aggro decks. Innervate is a much better card to change
 

Papercuts

fired zero bullets in the orphanage.
lol turn 1

ecrbtDy.png
 

Dahbomb

Member
Jade Idol is a 1 mana, 1 card win condition...

That has the flexibility of being used as a 1 mana overstatted minion in the mid game or used to buff up your other minions starting from turn 1. That effect of Jade Idol is immune to Skulking Geist as you are far likely to use Jade Idol before they get to use their Skulking Geist.

Compare Jade Idol to Grimstreet Outfitter which is a 2 mana 1/1 that buffs your hand. If you play Jade Idol on turn 1 as a 1/1, it reads "Give all your Jades in hand and in deck +1/+1". I don't know man, that sounds pretty powerful to me.

And then it can thicken your deck meaning you don't have to worry about playing too much draw in your deck. In reality, the combination of UT + Jade Idol is what is really devastating, Druids can go ham on draw and ramp because Jade Idol acts like the perfect buffer.

There's no realm in which the card was over OK to make to begin with.


The addition of Skulking Geist has not prevented Jade Druid from being the best deck and that was the whole point of making that card. This is a clear example of Blizzard's balancing philosophy failing completely.
 
Part of the reason a card like Swipe sees a lot of play is that Blizzard just doesn't print any competing cards. If you want AoE, you run Swipe or...Swipe. That's it. The only other option is Starfall, which is bad. I don't think there's anything else...right?

Swipe isn't too good. If Blizzard printed some alternatives, they might see play in different kinds of decks alongside Swipe. It's basically like Preparation. When was the last time Blizzard gave Rogues a tempo card like Preparation?...Classic?

Jade Idol is a 1 mana, 1 card win condition...

That has the flexibility of being used as a 1 mana overstatted minion in the mid game or used to buff up your other minions starting from turn 1. That effect of Jade Idol is immune to Skulking Geist as you are far likely to use Jade Idol before they get to use their Skulking Geist.

Compare Jade Idol to Grimstreet Outfitter which is a 2 mana 1/1 that buffs your hand. If you play Jade Idol on turn 1 as a 1/1, it reads "Give all your Jades in hand and in deck +1/+1". I don't know man, that sounds pretty powerful to me.

And then it can thicken your deck meaning you don't have to worry about playing too much draw in your deck. In reality, the combination of UT + Jade Idol is what is really devastating, Druids can go ham on draw and ramp because Jade Idol acts like the perfect buffer.

There's no realm in which the card was over OK to make to begin with.


The addition of Skulking Geist has not prevented Jade Druid from being the best deck and that was the whole point of making that card. This is a clear example of Blizzard's balancing philosophy failing completely.
I'm not saying Jade Idol isn't good. I'm saying that Jade Druid is comparable to other combo decks in other classes.
 

Dahbomb

Member
They aren't going to nerf Jade cards because they will just let them rotate out. Same for Patches, the ship has long been sailed.

lol turn 1

ecrbtDy.png
I love this play.

It's the perfect storm of the most bull shit cards in the game, Patches, Innervate and Vicious Fledgling.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Ok time to have a serious discussion about class cards.

Innervate, Van Cleef, Waraxe, Hex, Tirion, and Highmane are the biggest class cards I'd hall of fame for being generically too good, in that order, especially the first three. All of those cards see a lot of instant wins in any type of deck, where most of the other great classic class cards are either not game winning on their own, or generally don't work in every type of deck.

I'd prefer class identity be mostly upheld through the spirit of the design of the new cards than the overpoweredness of their old cards.

I'd also HoF Ice Block and Gadgetzan Auctioneer for how good they are in a certain specific archetype that will otherwise almost never go away, but that's a different type of problem.
 

scarlet

Member
They really need to patch discover mechanic on mobile, I've been stuck on same screen for a while. Curious glimmerroot, shadow vision could break your game
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
he didn't mention any jade card, I don't think they're ever touching those.

Then they are either looking at Quest Rogue levels of power creep, which is bad for the game, or Jade being an extremely significant part of the meta for the next year and a half, just like it has been since release, which is also bad for the game.

It can sometimes have the counters to make it not tier one, but it will always be a huge counter to a huge number of potential deck archetypes to make it weigh heavily on the meta.

They are insane to not nerf or hall of fame Aya Blackpaw at the very least.
 

fertygo

Member
Then they are either looking at Quest Rogue levels of power creep, which is bad for the game, or Jade being an extremely significant part of the meta for the next year and a half, just like it has been since release, which is also bad for the game.

It can sometimes have the counters to make it not tier one, but it will always be a huge counter to a huge number of potential deck archetypes to make it weigh heavily on the meta.

They are insane to not nerf or hall of fame Aya Blackpaw at the very least.

the next hall of fame moment is rotation date

you're the one that insane thinking Aya would've moved
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
What?

Totem golem and trogg were move to wild when the rotation happened.

I guess I forgot. They just said it was overpowered but told the fanbase to deal with it until rotation in their Yogg nerf patch notes.

Also, I guess MSoG was considered last year, being in the weird spot of having the least amount of time in rotation.

So I guess I was wrong about everything. Sorry.
 

Anilones

Member
Has there been any use of Rotface? I unpacked a golden one. I've been very happy with my legendaries this far with the following:

Malfurion the Pestilent
Thrall, Deathseer
Bloodreaver Gul'dan
Prince Keleseth (2 Mana)
Lich King

Rotface (Golden)

Shadowkeeper Anduin (crafted)

So I don't think that I really need to craft any more (I may start collecting gold for the December packs already) but may keep hold of it for when I need a new legendary.
 
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thepotatoman

Unconfirmed Member
Has there been any use of Rotface? I unpacked a golden one. I've been very happy with my legendaries this far with the following:

Malfurion the Pestilent
Thrall, Deathseer
Bloodreaver Gul'dan
Prince Keleseth (2 Mana)
Lich King

Rotface (Golden)

Shadowkeeper Anduin (crafted)

So I don't think that I really need to craft any more (I may start collecting gold for the December packs already) but may keep hold of it for when I need a new legendary.

On a micro level, I like Rotface a lot. It seems like it's noticeably better than Confessor Paletress. You can quite easily set up 3 procs on the turn you play it, or just play it into situations where you know they won't have 6 damage for one hit, like against most druids.

On a macro level, Warrior is in a tough place outside of Pirates, and Rotface is not easily finding a spot in any non-pirate decks that do exist, but I might at least for the first tournament to see if anything comes out of it.
 

Anilones

Member
On a micro level, I like Rotface a lot. It seems like it's noticeably better than Confessor Paletress. You can quite easily set up 3 procs on the turn you play it, or just play it into situations where you know they won't have 6 damage for one hit, like against most druids.

On a macro level, Warrior is in a tough place outside of Pirates, and Rotface is not easily finding a spot in any non-pirate decks that do exist, but I might at least for the first tournament to see if anything comes out of it.

Thanks for the reply. I think I'll keep hold of him unless I need to exchange him seeing as he'll be around for the next 18 months.
 

FeD.nL

Member
It still blows my mind everytime an opponent plays UI that this was given to a class where a 7 mana 5/5 that draws 2 cards was considered too powerful.
 

danowat

Banned
Hit rank 15 this morning in ranked, this is a very big deal for me!

Mirror entitying the Lich king ends the game really quickly!
 

Q8D3vil

Member
I wonder if geist gained 1/1 for every card destroyed would have made him a reliable card. Right now his stats feels like shit for his effects.
 

PAULINK

I microwave steaks.
i'm pretty sure i'm the only one I've ever seen play quest warlock on ladder, then again i can't get past rank 19 lmao
 
i'm pretty sure i'm the only one I've ever seen play quest warlock on ladder, then again i can't get past rank 19 lmao

I tried Qarlock a few times, as I opened all the cards needed over the last few expansions but found it rarely works. When you get the quest off you are already far too far behind, and those extra stats each turn rarely do enough.

The variant using Deathwing to discard all the needed cards in one turn works a tad better, as it is usually a surprise for the opponent, and you can build from there.
 

G.ZZZ

Member
Just give me back unnerfed blade flurry and UTH in wild, hunter and Rogue are non-existent there FeelsBadMan. I mean, i'm still having tons of fun with malyrogue but all of rogue is basically a complete dog to aggro, whereas other classes have some way to stop aggro and to gain life to stabilize.

Like:

-pally has pyro equality as an hard board clear + tons of lifegain, plus super strong early sticky minions like minibot and defender
- druid has 1/5 taunts for 2 and ramp into bigger taunts + tons of lifegain again
- wl has lifegain and tons of aoe/removal
- priest has good lifegain but only average AoE, with auchenai-circle being probably the best one, although they now have potion that is arguably AoE and the new 1 damage lifesteal AoE.
- warrior has billions of whirlwinds, the best cheap weapon and tons of armor gain as well as good taunts, nothing to see here
- mage has decent early removal and slowish AoE (aside from potion at 3), but excellent stalling tools and nova-doomsayer. Their lifegain isn't the best, but they have scientist+ice block + reno which is backbreaking vs aggro.

Hunter and rogue theoretically should counter aggresive decks by gaining early tempo but hunter has no way to actually win the board early sadly, and rogue can "win" the board but tend to run out of steam easily. Both have no lifegain available to stabilize if they manage to contest early game.
 

Pooya

Member
Iksar pretty much said last year that rogue is supposed to lose to aggro forever by design and that's ok in their mind. I don't like it but look at the cards they're printing, 2 mana give a weapon lifesteal, Doomrang! complete joke of a card. Yeah, it's not changing ever. Somehow a class can't have taunt minions, the very basic thing in the game. Every single class in the game has taunts except rogue. They add taunts to priest of all things but not in rogue.

I miss those times when we had cards in the game that everyone showed respect to. If there is a flurry I lose on the spot, maybe make some trades instead of jamming everything in the face. If there is a molten I better not attack with everything this turn. All of that finesse is gone from the game, replaced by increasingly dumber and dumber cards. We don't have many left any more. It's just brawl I think.

With druids and quest mage existing now, people have completely gone nuts, everything goes face everywhere. Murloc paladin I played against was insane. He had the nuts curve but he didn't even trade a single time, I could punish him with a dozen of cards, I was priest, but nothing he just went face face face and my hand was bad, drew no spell whatsoever. It's just a terrible terrible player, rolled high on megasaur (I hate this card), got a lucky win. His plays were completely awful and didn't make any sense. Free trade on north shire, nope leave it up, must get 3 damage face!

Hilariously bad plays by jade druid players, people say the deck is simple but damn are people trash at this game, even at legend. Worst part they still win because they play bullshit cards.
 
Iksar pretty much said last year that rogue is supposed to lose to aggro forever by design and that's ok in their mind. I don't like it but look at the cards they're printing, 2 mana give a weapon lifesteal, Doomrang! complete joke of a card. Yeah, it's not changing ever. Somehow a class can't have taunt minions, the very basic thing in the game. Every single class in the game has taunts except rogue. They add taunts to priest of all things but not in rogue.

I miss those times when we had cards in the game that everyone showed respect to. If there is a flurry I lose on the spot, maybe make some trades instead of jamming everything in the face. If there is a molten I better not attack with everything this turn. All of that finesse is gone from the game, replaced by increasingly dumber and dumber cards. We don't have many left any more. It's just brawl I think.

With druids and quest mage existing now, people have completely gone nuts, everything goes face everywhere. Murloc paladin I played against was insane. He had the nuts curve but he didn't even trade a single time, I could punish him with a dozen of cards, I was priest, but nothing he just went face face face and my hand was bad, drew no spell whatsoever. It's just a terrible terrible player, rolled high on megasaur (I hate this card), got a lucky win. His plays were completely awful and didn't make any sense. Free trade on north shire, nope leave it up, must get 3 damage face!

Hilariously bad plays by jade druid players, people say the deck is simple but damn are people trash at this game, even at legend. Worst part they still win because they play bullshit cards.
I played a Pirate Warrior who drew the nut, and I had to play Fandral bare just to contest the board.

He still went face, hahahahaha. Nourish, Wrath, Jade Idol, Innervate, Raven Idol, Scales.

Yeah, he didn't win that one.
 

Ikkarus

Member
I played a Pirate Warrior who drew the nut, and I had to play Fandral bare just to contest the board.

He still went face, hahahahaha. Nourish, Wrath, Jade Idol, Innervate, Raven Idol, Scales.

Yeah, he didn't win that one.
The saddest thing is the opponent will not have learned from this lesson and will proceed to hit the next opponents face again in their next game.
 

danowat

Banned
Godamn, finally hit Rank 15!!

With midrange/DK Hunter of all things in the end!

Huh, I did the same today, I just put it down to the fact the meta must be a mess at the moment, because I've only ever come close once before, in god knows how many years of playing.

I just one win away from 14, but I am sure it'll all come crashing down soon, I am due a massive losing streak!
 

Anilones

Member
It took me a well over a week to get to Rank 15 this month and only about a day to Rank 10 (losing only one match on the way). Keep pushing, you may surprise yourselves.
 

Bunga

Member
It took me a well over a week to get to Rank 15 this month and only about a day to Rank 10 (losing only one match on the way). Keep pushing, you may surprise yourselves.

I'll keep going for sure, just glad I've hit the Rank 15 bracket. I normally hit Rank 15 relatively easily and hover around 12-13 for the rest of the season but this month I've had serious difficulty getting to 15.

I am getting crushed by DK Priest/Warlock.
 
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