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Austin Wintory facing $50k fine over Banner Saga work due to union contract dispute

T

thesaucetastic

Unconfirmed Member
Austin Wintory, the composer behind such games as Journey and The Banner Saga, has just released a video about the situation some members of the game music industry are in.

Several years ago Ray Hair, the President of the American Federation of Musicians put together a Videogame Agreement working committee to develop a new game agreement.
The new Videogame Agreement was approved by the AFM's International Executive Board and went into effect December 2012. This new contract was done without allowing any composers, musicians or any of the 90,000 members of the union given an opportunity to vote on it.

"The new administration, was deeply committed to fixing the videogame mess," explained committee member and Recording Musicians Association (RMA) President Marc Sazer at the time. He also predicted, incorrectly, that "the new agreement should induce employers to sit down and negotiate with the AFM."

Nothing could be further from the reality of what happened.

The end result was an agreement that was universally rejected by every single video game developer and publisher, and has gone completely unused since the day it was created.

For almost two years now, under this contract, no union member has been allowed to work on a new video game soundtrack as a result.
Click to expand...

Highly recommend listening to the whole thing, or at least reading the description, which is a partial transcript of the video.

Lock if old.


edit: Can a mod fix my title. Should be "for doing his job", not "from".


edit2: Another article about it

homeworkfilms said:
A variety article about the video and surrounding issues and debates.

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/videogame-composer-blasts-musicians-union-for-rule-violation-charges-amid-contract-strife-1201216439/

The quote that caught my attention was...
"Composer and frequent AFM critic Michael W. Barry, who founded and moderates the 3,000-member “Hollywood Film, Television and Interactive Scoring Community” Facebook page and who has scored the popular “League of Legends” game, confirms that no publisher has used the most recent game contract since the AFM drafted it in December 2012.

“The terms are nowhere near what the industry wants,” Barry says, noting that game companies insist on owning all of the intellectual property, including music, that goes into their games. The previous AFM game contract, dating from 2007, was “very producer-friendly,” he said, and a handful of games “grandfathered” under that contract continue to be scored in L.A."
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


edit3: The contract in question, for those who were curious about what it says.


edit4: The man speaks for himself

AWintory said:
The violation I'm charged with is breaking the Bylaws, which cite that I can not "perform services (whether as composer, arranger, copyist, proofreader, instrumentalist, leader, contractor, cutter, editor or in any other capacity) for the purpose of producing, editing or dubbing recorded music except where expressly authorized and covered by a contract with the AFM or when expressly authorized by the AFM."

I recorded THE BANNER SAGA, out of necessity, without union contract. And they are trying to make an example out of me because of it. I'm not the first they've tried this with.
Click to expand...
 
T

thesaucetastic

Unconfirmed Member
I think the real shitty thing about this is that none of the members of the union got to vote on this contract. The administration just went over everyone's head. And now they won't do anything about it, even though it's costing people their livelihoods.
 
Flying Toaster

Flying Toaster

Member
thesaucetastic said:
I think the real shitty thing about this is that none of the members of the union got to vote on this contract. The administration just went over everyone's head. And now they won't do anything about it, even though it's costing people their livelihoods.
Click to expand...

Why would they do anything about it. Of course there was not a vote, the administration of this organization thinks only they can make serious decisions.
 
F

fedexpeon

Banned
Well, union is a very scary thing.
He should have known from all the historical conflicts in America.
They can destroy you if you don't agree to join them.
They will harass you, your co-workers will look down on you, your workplace can't help you because the union will not allow them to.
You will finally fear the union, and join them as a member for "protection".
 
U

Unknown Soldier

Member
fedexpeon said:
Well, union is a very scary thing.
He should have known from all the historical conflicts in America.
They can destroy you if you don't agree to join them.
They will harass you, your co-workers will look down on you, your workplace can't help you because the union will not allow them to.
You will finally fear the union, and join them as a member for "protection".
Click to expand...

Montgomery Burns, is that you?
 
T

thesaucetastic

Unconfirmed Member
massoluk said:
Cliff notes for us that can't watch video at work?
Click to expand...
More or less, the administration of his union tried to negotiate a contract with publishers and developers, but none of the union members got to vote on the terms of this contract. The contract was pretty much unanimously rejected by pubs and devs. Since then, the musicians and composers of this association have been forced to work without union sanction because the administration has failed to signed any video game companies to work with them in almost two years.

Wintory is facing the fine because he was working without the union's permission, essentially.
 
H

homeworkfilms

Member
A variety article about the video and surrounding issues and debates.

http://variety.com/2014/biz/news/videogame-composer-blasts-musicians-union-for-rule-violation-charges-amid-contract-strife-1201216439/

The quote that caught my attention was...

"Composer and frequent AFM critic Michael W. Barry, who founded and moderates the 3,000-member “Hollywood Film, Television and Interactive Scoring Community” Facebook page and who has scored the popular “League of Legends” game, confirms that no publisher has used the most recent game contract since the AFM drafted it in December 2012.

“The terms are nowhere near what the industry wants,” Barry says, noting that game companies insist on owning all of the intellectual property, including music, that goes into their games. The previous AFM game contract, dating from 2007, was “very producer-friendly,” he said, and a handful of games “grandfathered” under that contract continue to be scored in L.A."
Click to expand...
 
T

Tetranet

Member
thesaucetastic said:
More or less, the administration of his union tried to negotiate a contract with publishers and developers, but none of the union members got to vote on the terms of this contract. The contract was pretty much unanimously rejected by pubs and devs. Since then, the musicians and composers of this association have been forced to work without union sanction because the administration has failed to signed any video game companies to work with them in almost two years.

Wintory is facing the fine because he was working without the union's permission, essentially.
Click to expand...

I don't know much about Unions in the US but the whole topic just screams gangsters to me.
 
R

Ronok

Member
How is it that, when a union is turning its back on a whole industry, those who work in that industry don't just start their own improved union? What am I missing here?
 
S

Shmuely Bully

Member
I'd hate to see game composers get fewer protections for their work (well, aside from length of copyright, that can DIAF), but this is really not how you go about doing it. Members should have been allowed a say and companies should have been involved.

If you don't have any companies on board you either need to work with them to get them on board or exert outside pressure for them to hop on. Just ignoring companies' interests and not working to get them on board doesn't work.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
Ronok said:
How is it that, when a union is turning its back on a whole industry, those who work in that industry don't just start their own improved union? What am I missing here?
Click to expand...

The talent pool becomes limited. You can't just hop in and out of a union that dictates who you can work for.
 
M

Mega-dino

Neo Member
That's downright outrageous.

Did the AFM ever explained why videogame music and composer should be treated this way ? Because I fail to see how you could defend this....
 
Garcia

Garcia

Member
What an astronomical amount of bullshit. Outrageous that this is even happening; thank you for threading this as I had no idea that this situation was even taking place.

As a composer myself (not living in the US) this is really concerning. Unbelievable that such practices are being pushed forward by dinosaurs who don't understand the future of music.
 
T

thesaucetastic

Unconfirmed Member
Garcia said:
What an astronomical amount of bullshit. Outrageous that this is even happening; thank you for threading this as I had no idea that this situation was even taking place.
Click to expand...
No problem. I just hope this doesn't get buried by E3 (which it probably will).

But anyway, like Wintory said, the best way to get this union to do something is by bringing attention to their inaction. If we share this enough so that media outlets pick it up, they'll have to respond.
 
D

DeaviL

Banned
Does someone know these terms?
He got a fine, but what "rules" did he "break" to get the fine?

Just looking for some clarity.
 
Z

Zizbuka

Banned
Oersted said:
Erm... you have no clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Erm, unless I read it wrong, the union head(s) implemented a law that affects the union members. So, in this case it looks like the union screwed up big time.

What happens if he ignores the fine? Besides the obvious, him being blackballed and such, can they force him to pay?
 
D

DeaviL

Banned
IdreamofHIME said:
Unions are so fucking stupid, Gary Oldman being in a Union stopped him from working on the Star Wars prequels.
Click to expand...

Unions work in every other country in the world, they are made to protect employee's.
The unions in America sound so different from anything i know.
 
K

kirblar

Member
DeaviL said:
Unions work in every other country in the world, they are made to protect employee's.
The unions in America sound so different from anything i know.
Click to expand...
Unions are very much a double-edged sword. They have good points and bad points.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
DeaviL said:
Does someone know these terms?
He got a fine, but what "rules" did he "break" to get the fine?

Just looking for some clarity.
Click to expand...

The union can restrict who the members can work for. His work on Journey wasn't allowed by the union because there's no agreement between the union and the publisher.
 
BiGBoSSMk23

BiGBoSSMk23

A company being excited for their new game is a huge slap in the face to all the fans that liked their old games.
fedexpeon said:
Well, union is a very scary thing.
He should have known from all the historical conflicts in America.
They can destroy you if you don't agree to join them.
They will harass you, your co-workers will look down on you, your workplace can't help you because the union will not allow them to.
You will finally fear the union, and join them as a member for "protection".
Click to expand...

Sounds like a passive mafia.

This is so sad. What an awful way to complicate things. This man was nominated for a Grammy!
 
B

besada

Banned
So, if Wintory feels the The American Federation of Musicians didn't represent him, why did he remain a member?
 
D

DeaviL

Banned
Zoe said:
The union can restrict who the members can work for. His work on Journey wasn't allowed by the union because there's no agreement between the union and the publisher.
Click to expand...

Does anyone know if unions in Europe can do this?
 
S

Shmuely Bully

Member
DeaviL said:
Does someone know these terms?
He got a fine, but what "rules" did he "break" to get the fine?

Just looking for some clarity.
Click to expand...

If you as a member of a union work in a way that contradicts the agreement/contract you've opted to become part of as a member of that union you can be fined. It's a good thing because it discourages people from crossing the picket lines, but it sounds like the AFM really screwed the pooch in writing up the new agreement.
 
F

Falk

that puzzling face
besada said:
So, if Wintory feels the The American Federation of Musicians didn't represent him, why did he remain a member?
Click to expand...

A lot of composers do work both inside and outside the realm of VGM. Austin Wintory works on film as well.
 
T

tokkun

Member
DeaviL said:
Does someone know these terms?
He got a fine, but what "rules" did he "break" to get the fine?

Just looking for some clarity.
Click to expand...

He belongs to the musicians union. The rules of being in the union are that he can only work on productions that use union employees.

The current union contract makes using union members more expensive than non-union. He went to Texas and recorded a soundtrack using non-union members because it was less expensive. As part of the recording, he acted as a conductor (he says only for a small part of the process), which is a job that falls under the union he is a member of. The union is fining him for working in a non-union production while being a member of the union.

If you want to criticize him, you could say that if he doesn't want to employ union members, then he should quit the union himself, rather than attempting to get the benefits of being in the union without making the sacrifices.
 
D

DeaviL

Banned
Shmuely Bully said:
If you as a member of a union work in a way that contradicts the agreement/contract you've opted to become part of as a member of that union you can be fined. It's a good thing because it discourages people from crossing the picket lines, but it sounds like the AFM really screwed the pooch in writing up the new agreement.
Click to expand...

Sounds more like keeping workers in check then protecting them.

Thanks for all the info btw.
 
Angry Fork

Angry Fork

Member
IdreamofHIME said:
Unions are so fucking stupid, Gary Oldman being in a Union stopped him from working on the Star Wars prequels.
Click to expand...

Unions are stupid to people who are not a member of the working class, or are but want to eventually become a master/exploiter of them. Unions and socialists are responsible for every major workplace benefit, protection and regulation you currently enjoy. And a resurgence of them are needed now more than ever.
 
M

Mesoian

Member
tokkun said:
He belongs to the musicians union. The rules of being in the union are that he can only work on productions that use union employees.

The current union contract makes using union members more expensive than non-union. He went to Texas and recorded a soundtrack using non-union members because it was less expensive. As part of the recording, he acted as a conductor (he says only for a small part of the process), which is a job that falls under the union he is a member of. The union is fining him for working in a non-union production while being a member of the union.

If you want to criticize him, you could say that if he doesn't want to employ union members, then he should quit the union himself, rather than attempting to get the benefits of being in the union without making the sacrifices.
Click to expand...

I guess so.

But he also signed my phone when I met him at Comic-Con last year, so he get my backing.

Will buy the LP of journey and Banner Saga AGAIN to support Austin Wintory, because he is doing revolutionary shit for video games. The End.
 
L

Lafiel

と呼ぶがよい
Flying Toaster said:
I am waiting for Union defense force GAF to show up and tell us why this is ok.
Click to expand...
Union bureaucracy shenanigans and corruption suck. But unions have historically and currently have offered more benefits than negatives, esp for anyone who works for a living.. which is pretty much every single member here at GAF, so yeah you have no idea what you are talking about.;p
 
Flying Toaster

Flying Toaster

Member
Jak140 said:
Some people are bad therefore all people are bad. Dat logic.
Click to expand...

Yet somehow this is ok because clearly he is in a union that is fighting for his rights by fining him for working on projects that he works on.

Oersted said:
More information available?





Erm... you have no clue what you are talking about.
Click to expand...

Yes, of course that is it. I have no clue what I am talking about. That must be it.
 
Flying Toaster

Flying Toaster

Member
Lafiel said:
Union bureaucracy shenanigans and corruption suck. But unions have historically and currently have offered more benefits than negatives, esp for anyone who works for a living.. which is pretty much every single member here at GAF, so yeah you have no idea what you are talking about.;p
Click to expand...

I work for a living, I am not in a union. The place I happen to work for is not out to screw me over or make me do things that are clearly out of line or against my rights. Because I am not part of a union I must really not understand where you are coming from and must be ignorant and even god forbid stupid.
 
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