Not gunna lie, been wondering why you haven't popped up lol.
I needed to sit down at a computer to respond to like three different posts at once and got busy yesterday (opposed to responding to normal stuff on my phone). I wouldn't read too much into it. People in these threads know I don't ignore convos. If my next response takes as long, I apologize. But I will respond.
My point is, whether or not he makes miniscule changes, he's still following the same fundamental teachings of the Jedi, and his order wouldn't be varrying too far from those fundamental teachings. Because at the end of the day, every Jedi is a little different. Qui Gon's beliefs are different from Obi Wan's beliefs which differ from Yoda's beliefs which differ from Plo Kloon's beliefs which differ from Anakin's beliefs.
All of these characters are Jedi, and all of them have a slightly different understanding of what it means to be a Jedi, but fundamentally it all stems from the same teachings. Luke is exactly the same, and while a Jedi masters personal feelings and ideals are sometimes passed down to their padawan what they teach them are the fundamentals and they're free to do things from there however they like as long as it doesn't go against these fundamentals.
So what I'm saying is, Luke was never nearly as different from any other Jedi as you imply, and if anything Luke is far more simple and pure hearted than most if not all of the republic Jedi.
If you watch the clone wars then watch the OT there's a very strong contrast in character from Luke to all of the other Jedi, and its because he's pure hearted and fairly simple, as a character that's what he was designed to, be the ultimate do gooder and if you want to put a religious spin on it: He's the ideal church boy.
Again, sure he may do things slightly differently but at the end of the day, he's not that much different than the others and if anything is a lot closer to being a clean cut Jedi than many of those in the republic ever were.
and I know you mean to say that 'Well because he force choked people and didn't kill Vader he's different!" and again he is different, but if anything, not killing Vader is because the character is pure of heart and a force of good whereas force choking and killing wasn't established in the series as something bad when that film was made.
Yeah you're seriously.. seriously understating the significance of Luke's decision to defy Yoda/Obi and not only disobey their advice and wisdom, but do something basically impossible -- defeat Vader and restore Anakin.
That's what separates Luke from Jedi who came before him. He was able to properly harness his emotions and use them to basically do the impossible.
I'm not really sure why you're glazing over it.. your willingness to try and put Luke in the same category as PT Jedi is really bizarre to me when this is clearly not what was established in the OT (regardless of what comes after in the PT, it's already established that he's going against the norm in the OT.. things that you can infer Jedi before did not do). He is he hero that defies the norm to succeed against seemingly insurmountable odds. And we're not just talking about physical tasks.
Like.. that's the POINT of Luke. That he's not just some typical "church boy" Jedi.
I.. dunno. Agree to disagree here. Big time
No, I understand that she knew who he was prior, but its the fact that she's strong enough in the force to be able to know who it was. Now realize that Leia is fairly weak in the force in the grand scheme of things as far as I know, but I do know that Luke is far stronger in the force. So my point is, if Leia, a fairly weak force user can do that why wouldn't Luke, one of the strongest force users be able to take that to an entirely different level.
"Leia was aware of the influence Snoke could have on her son" is vague as hell. We have no idea what that entails because we have no backstory. And I'm not sure where in the canon it says "Leia is a weaker force user than Luke", cuz I'm not aware of that. One of the best things about the OT is that it doesn't make these kind of meaningless comparisons (WHO'S THE MOST POWERFUL OF THEM ALL.. OH MY GOD HIS MIDIS ARE HIGHER THAN YODAS!!) and I think they will continue to stray from them in the future. For all we know Leia is as poweful as Luke.. she just never trained to become a Jedi. Her destiny lies along a different path.
It's just a meaningless conversation to have (force power comparisons) and one of the greatest mistakes of the PT.
It was in retaliation to the argument that Leia couldn't sense people through the force because she couldn't do it in the original trilogy.
She felt the dark side creeping around her. She's force sensitive. I think her sensing this is more a testament to how wise and knowledgeable Snoke is with the force.
Prior to the prequel Retcons, there's nothing to indicate that Obi Wan knew that Luke and Leia were twins. It wouldn't make sense anyway considering that Luke and Leia were never written as twins in A New Hope, that came in the Empire Strikes back. It also was a retcon. So with that in mind, Obi Wan couldn't have known they were twins and thus couldn't have informed Yoda. Yoda would have had to figure it out on his own.
But.. that changed in the PT. As much as a hate the prequels, they filled in a lot of that backstory. Are we supposed to ignore that? It's never explicitly stated in the OT HOW he knows about Leia. I mean the emperor sensed LUKE, but not (in the films) Leia, because Luke was the one who was doing powerful shit in the force. So it's entirely possible, even if you ignore the PT completely (not sure why we would do this) that Yoda knew with separate information about Leia, by name and specifically who she was.
At this point in time, I think its a fair assumption to say that Luke is more powerful than the emperor and Vader. That's usually how these stories go, the hero defeats the great evil and many years later, through continued training he learns that his powers have grown far past his original adversaries. It's a trope. Luke has also been studying the ways of the ancient Jedi and the force, this is established in The Last Jedi. So with that in mind if Palpatine can do it and Yoda can do it, and Luke has surprassed both of them why wouldn't Luke be able to do it? He wouldn't need to know where they are, but he would know that they do exist and in the act of knowing that they do exist he could use the force and locate them. Locating someone as a powerful force user isn't too difficult of a task.
And again, Leia is force sensitive, Luke and Leia share a connection through the force because they're related and are of the same bloodline. If Rey were of that same bloodline, Leia should be able to feel some connection from her simply because of that. But that's not present.
Yoda had been around 900 or so years and trained Jedi for a lot of them. I'm not sure how old the emperor is (or if that's even canon), but I always assumed they were the most experienced force users in the galaxy because of their abilities displayed on screen and established positions/reputations in films. Not like WOW SO MUCH MORE POWERFUL THAN LUKE but judging by contextual/expository clues, it seems like they were placed in another category altogether. Like their wisdom was unmatched. But that's my interpretation. I have no idea what Luke's abilities are like now.
Like, for example, Yoda is clearly in another category than Obi-Wan in the OT. It's established in the films. Yoda taught Ben. Yoda is 900 and has taught Jedi for like ever.
I always assumed Luke would be in a similar position (Ben's position) but with much greater importance, because of his successes in the OT. He was the hero.
That's because at the time, Vader didn't have a son. Anakin Skywalker did, and in A New Hope, Darth Vader and Anakin Skywalker were two different entities, and I don't mean in an idealogical sense. They were quite literally two different people. Obi Wan didn't lie to Luke about his father, and his aunt and his uncle wasn't foreshadowing when he said (paraphrasing) that Luke has too much of his father in him. It was changed in the Empire Strikes back and was a plot twist that no one expected because that's not what was originally planned when A New Hope was made. Anakin was everything Obi Wan said he was and Vader did have no children. It was all retconned in later when the story direction changed in ESB
That all doesn't really matter because Vader STILL hadn't sensed Luke in ESB, where we learn he is Luke's father. He is taken aback by the emperor's news that Anakin has a son (he (Vader) has a son). He had no idea. The emperor sensed this via force visions as a result of the destruction of the death star, and Vader did not.
Unless you really wanna go into "but now in the NEW trilogy things are different. But really that's a rabbit hole I have no intention of venturing into.
It's not just about discovering the identity, its about knowing of the existence. Which was your argument, that it's possible that Luke might not have known of the existence of Rey, to which I disagree. From there, he would have tried to find out her identity or contact her in some way, apparently the force extends to psychic contacting across great distances. Arguably a powerful force user could get into a weak mind from across great distances and see their thoughts and memories as Kylo Ren does to Rey in TFA. From there he could probably figure out her identity, or at least where to look for her in finding someone else. It's not like there isn't super advanced tech that's never been utilized for that specific purpose in star wars. That's like half of all clone wars episodes right there. But a half of that is uncharted territory and theoretical.
Again, Vader had no idea Luke was in existence in ESB. The force has not yet had a major shift, or awakening, so there's no real reason why Luke would simply be able to "sense" that she had been born. We don't yet know how or why Rey had a vision of the island and ocean.. if Luke "sent" it to her or if the force brought it to her. I'm thinking the latter makes much more sense. Through her natural abilities, she was able to see things through the force that others could not.
Again, there has been no compelling reason established yet why Luke would suddenly "sense" her in a time before she had triggered the awakening, or disturbance in the force, causing powerful force users to sense her actions and possibly even her existence.
I've no doubt Luke felt the awakening. Maybe his reaction has to do with knowing there was an awakening and realizing in that moment that she's his fucking daughter. For all we know, her learned of her existence THROUGH the awakening (but didn't know of her identity as his daughter until he saw her in person or sensed her presence) and doesn't want to tell her yet for reasons that may or may not be explained in TLJ.
Which easily explains why she was not trained with Luke (he did not know of her existence until the awakening). Maybe he still doesn't. Maybe he just sensed the awakening and as an inclination that there may be another hero out there, waiting to do what he did in the OT.
Time will tell.
While your powers may be dormant, but the force is not. Using the title in your argument can get messy. Simply because, Kylo Ren has been using the force for years actively, meaning it can't be dormant, and apparently so has Snoke. On top of that, Rey was at least 13 by the time Luke's academy was destroyed, I don't have a quote for this but it was brought up earlier in the thread. So that means for the first 13 years of Rey's life there were other force users. Apparently she's 19 in TFA? which means its been 6 years from the destruction of the academy to the events of TFA/TLJ so the force didn't just awaken in general. It awoke inside her specifically, and even then it's not really that the force awoke inside her, it's that she was able to unlock her powers once she realized they were there and I'd argue that while you always have that potential inside you if you're force sensitive, it takes something to bring that out of you. Kind of like how in X-Men you're born with the mutant gene, but it takes something, often some kind of traumatic event for it to activate. Maybe in star wars, in addition to that it takes coming into contact with a force user.
But even then, we also don't know if Rey has never used the force before, maybe she has unwittingly. Maybe Rey's parents are kind of shit bags and she showed signs of being a force sensitive as a child, and because of that they ditched her because they were afraid of what the empire would do to them because of it.
I think you missed my edit. The Force Awakens doesn't mean "the force wasn't used until now", it just means, IMO, that there was another disturbance or huge event that tore through the force, like when Luke destroyed the death star. Rey caused the force to awaken, but that doesn't mean that it just pertains to HER. Her actions have had a rippling effect across the entire force itself.
She just knocked down the first domino.
