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Betsy DeVos doesn't know the difference between growth and proficiency

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Trickster

Trickster

Member
I was watching it live and had to mute because it was so uncomfortable to watch Al tear her apart.

Honestly it's such a disgrace that you guys will get someone like her in such an important position in the government...
 
RPGCrazied

RPGCrazied

Member
I also heard she isn't getting a 2nd round of questions, they are just going to shotgun her into office just because she has an R by her name.

Really is pathetic.
 
T

tbm24

Member
I was tuning in to the hearing and the difference in questioning depending on who's asked is shameful. Franken prodded her hard and Dems have been pointing out how ridiculous it is how few questions will ultimately be asked of her.
 
A

Apharmd

Member
So she has no clue on what to do in terms of protecting the interests and well being of her nation.

Perfect. On par with the rest of Trump's cabinets.
 
M

mstevens

Member
mackattk said:
So like..those who don't know... anyone care to explain it in layman's terms?
Click to expand...

Growth measures from where the student started to where they are now. For instance, if a student begins third grading reading 75 words per minute at a 70% accuracy, and ends the year at 115 words per minute at 90% accuracy, that might be considered excellent growth and success for that student.

Proficiency is a measure of success that is consistent among all students. So a student starts the year at 130 words per minute, and ends the year at 120 words per minute, but the goal was 110 then he and his teacher would be marked a success. A student growing from 30 words per minute to 90 would not.


(Just a side note.. Using reading accuracy and fluency as truly meaningful data is it's own debate, but I figured this would be an easy to understand example)
 
E

ezekial45

Banned
norm9 said:
Big deal. I don't either.
Click to expand...

It's a good thing you're not trying to be the Secretary of Education for the United States of America and dictate how the government should push education and practices for students.

She is, however. And it's a huge problem she doesn't.
 
D

Doodis

Member
giphy.gif
 
M

Morts

Member
Is there a summary of her positions, or what effect she's likely to have? My fiance is a teacher, I'm wondering if she'll have a job in two years.
 
P

PHOENIXZERO

Member
Unfortunately she's perfect for the position with the GOP and Trump in charge. A fundie nut with a family of crooks, including her husband and father in law.
 
V

Vixdean

Member
Fuck it, confirm them all. Let these morons try to run the government. As long as we all survive the long term damage of having this cabinet of incompetents ruin the country for 4 years will have on the GOP will be worth it. They won't win another election.
 
F

Ferrio

Banned
Vixdean said:
Fuck it, confirm them all. Let these morons try to run the government. As long as we all survive the long term damage of having this cabinet of incompetents ruin the country for 4 years will have on the GOP will be worth it. They won't win another election.
Click to expand...

I remember saying that during the Bush years, let's not kid ourselves.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
mackattk said:
So like..those who don't know... anyone care to explain it in layman's terms?
Click to expand...

Sure. proficiency measures you against an absolute standard "if you can pass this test, you pass. otherwise you fail". growth measures against where you started from. "If you increase by X amount, you pass".

I think measuring growth is kind of stupid frankly, because if that's the case why even have grades (i.e. K-12) at all? The whole point of a grade is to define the absolute level of the material that is to be taught. What does 4th grade mean if anyone can be in 4th grade, and everyone is being taught something different because they're all at different levels?

Measure proficiency and then (GASP!) fail people if they don't pass. The problem with education today is that you can't fail people.
 
F

Fushin

Member
mackattk said:
So like..those who don't know... anyone care to explain it in layman's terms?
Click to expand...

Proficiency:
All 5th Graders have to meet a certain set of standards, and all 5th Graders are measured to their standards.

Growth:
Student comes into 5th Grade reading on a 1st Grade level and leaves reading on a 3rd Grade level, showing two years worth of growth in one year. This student would fail a 5th Grade proficiency test and be considered a failing student, disregarding the growth they made in the year.
 
D

Dr.Acula

Banned
So this seems to be specific American educational jargon, I googled around and found what I think may be the correct definitions.

http://www.jaxpef.org/news/whats-new-growth-vs-proficiency/

Proficiency is primarily a measure of student performance (i.e., how well are students performing at meeting appropriate performance targets?)

Growth is primarily a measure of school performance (i.e., how is this school doing at moving students forward at or above an appropriate rate each year?)
Click to expand...

I've been out of school for a long time, never attended school in the US, and don't have kids, so I get why I don't know this, but really, my God, what are Al Franken's qualifications to suggest he should know this stuff -but he does. How can someone vie for secretary of education and not be familiar with the working terms?
 
G

Gutek

Member
All of them will get through. They're kissing up to everybody. Those confirmation hearings are sickening.
 
K

Kyrios

Member
That's terrifying. OP's right, it's one of the first things a teacher needs to be aware of. Like introductory college class early.

I don't even want to watch it.
 
C

cpp_is_king

Member
Fushin said:
Proficiency:
All 5th Graders have to meet a certain set of standards, and all 5th Graders are measured to their standards.

Growth:
Student comes into 5th Grade reading on a 1st Grade level and leaves reading on a 3rd Grade level, showing two years worth of growth in one year. This student would fail a 5th Grade proficiency test and be considered a failing student, disregarding the growth they made in the year.
Click to expand...

Uhh, good? Send them back to 3rd grade if they're at a 3rd grade level. That's literally what "grade level" means.
 
F

Foffy

Banned
Vixdean said:
Fuck it, confirm them all. Let these morons try to run the government. As long as we all survive the long term damage of having this cabinet of incompetents ruin the country for 4 years will have on the GOP will be worth it. They won't win another election.
Click to expand...

If people lack the cultural and critical language to decipher the problems in this culture -- and most do -- the GOP can actually literally start World War III as a terrorist organization and still propagandize support.

Remember, this the same culture that loves Ronald Reagan, who pushed the start of neoliberalism and literally all of the internal wars on the public Trump's cabinet is arming for.
 
W

whyamihere

Banned
Honestly, a lot of the Democratic senators are doing an amazing job showing how unqualified these nominees are, even though most of them will be confirmed.
 
M

mackattk

Member
cpp_is_king said:
Sure. proficiency measures you against an absolute standard "if you can pass this test, you pass. otherwise you fail". growth measures against where you started from. "If you increase by X amount, you pass".

I think measuring growth is kind of stupid frankly, because if that's the case why even have grades (i.e. K-12) at all? The whole point of a grade is to define the absolute level of the material that is to be taught. What does 4th grade mean if anyone can be in 4th grade, and everyone is being taught something different because they're all at different levels?
Click to expand...


Sounds like growth to be successful, it would require smaller classes and teachers who truly care. Sounds like a tough proposition with the way k-12 education has been going for the past so many years.
 
Zoe

Zoe

Member
mackattk said:
So like..those who don't know... anyone care to explain it in layman's terms?
Click to expand...

Franken actually explained it pretty simply.

How do you measure the progress of a gifted student who is already rated above proficiency? What do you do about those students who aren't capable of reaching proficiency?

You need to measure their growth.
 
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