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Editorial: The Overlooked Importance of Nintendo
- Thread starter lancubap
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M3d10n said:
See, this chap gets the meaning of the article.
schild said:
Whereas this person doesn't.
I also agree somewhat that Mario has been whored out in recent years for popularity reasons - however like Miyamoto says, the games were popular for the gameplay and not the characters. This has rubbed off on the images of characters like Mario because it's what he represents. A game about Mario is a game that, to the minds of most people, symbolizes fun, like a seal of quality. He is not "cool" or fleshed out, being a mute overweight plumber who has very few expressed emotions, so it's very hard to say that the reason why Mario games are bought on a large level is because he himself is as admired in the same way as, for example, Spongebob Squarepants is. All he does is represent the game he graces and assure that there is fun to be had. Simply put, Mario is fun to those that buy games with him in them.
It's a shame they've exploited that seal of quality for so many sports titles and spinoffs, but Nintendo also seem genuinely interested in reinstating this belief with return-to-form games such as New Super Mario Bros. and Mario Galaxy.
Endow said:
(Speaking about the first Tomb Raider here) Aside from the cynical response of why a Tomb Raider game is popular enough to get male gamers into gaming, the core game mechanics in themselves aren't that complex really. Sure they're not Nintendo level of simplicity, but the controls are kept relatively simple and your objective is pretty obvious. You run, you jump, you shoot. You find a key and unlock a door. I would call Call of Duty 4 and ESPECIALLY Mass Effect worlds ahead of Tomb Raider in complexity.
bigmakstudios
Banned
Azelover said:
:lol
But, in all seriousness, what exactly are you saying? Do you mean to imply that shallow abominations with useless, poorly executed motion controls that do nothing to improve game play, like Wii Sports, will entirely supplant "geeky" games, which actually dare to have a semblance of depth and an intricate graphical presentation? Why would you want that? Surely it brings growth to the industry, but it isn't beneficial for people who like video games.
Using any console game from, I'd say 1995, and prior as example of "But I got into gaming without Nintendo's help" is moot, since back then the vast majority of games were still designed with pre-teens in mind, even the ones attempting to pose as more "serious".
One could argue that in the entire SNES library no game was designed for the same demographic as COD4.
One could argue that in the entire SNES library no game was designed for the same demographic as COD4.
While I understand the comparison, I really dislike to handle Nintendo and Disney equally. For example: The reason I watch mainly Anime isn't because of the mature content. it's because of the very very restricted policy Disney had and still have to a degree. I mean, even Sailor Moon has some transgender stuff, whereas I feel that Disney only vary a few themes.M3d10n said:
Nintendo however has a great variety and diversity in their products, they may be most popular for their Mario and Pokémon stuff, but as a publisher they don't have many restriction except not allowing AO titles.
Neo C. said:
Disney films have dealt with some rather dark and even traumatising subjects - you may laugh at the notion but I have heard a lot of people pointing to Bambi's mother being shot as one such example. Others include more nightmarish scenes such as the Night on Bald Mountain from Fantasia, or a good portion of the Black Cauldron, the only film they released to not acquire a U rating. It's not quite as controversial a subject as transgender but it's a contrast to their usual image.
Pureauthor
Member
SovanJedi said:
Well, I give Disney credit for sometimes creating adaptations that I find more enjoyable than the original (Pinnochio, Aladdin, and Beauty and the Beast.)
Pureauthor said:
When I was young almost every single Disney film I owned was a piprated VHS copy - passable quality but it made everything on the screen incredibly dark in colour. This gave some segments in films like Pinnochio extra intensity as the onscreen happenings were more masked by black shadows and loud noises than they were intended to be. Monstro the whale was especially nightmarish as it was depicted as a pitch black amorphous Leviathan with an evil staring eye. And teeth.
Sometimes it makes me wish the actual films had been as dark as that. I'll make it a habit to turn the brightness down every time I watch them from now on.
Pureauthor
Member
SovanJedi said:
Wow, that actually sounds pretty awesome.
TheGrayGhost
Banned
Well, I don't know about most of you, but I think game-play-oriented experiences (i.e. Nintendo, etc.) are more "complex" than most AAA killer-apps!!! (i.e. Gears of War, CoD4, etc.)
AnimeTheme
Member
Fixed
bigmakstudios said:
I disagree with the article that only Nintendo games get children into the market, but I do agree that the Playstation and Xbox brand are trying, over their attempts to target children, to target that coveted 16-25 demographic.
And they have, and for the last two generations they have succeeded, and made that the biggest part of the industry.
But Nintendo is saying, why don't we continue to target the primarily under 16-year demographic with the Mario games, while expanding the market to include as our JUST AS IMPORTANT GOAL, to target the over-25 demographic with the Wii games. And they have succeeded, and grown the industry to include three strata, of which they only aim at two.
And it works for me, as an older than 25-er, to come home after work, easily and simply turn on the Wii, and play this novel thing with motion controls. It just works. I honestly only play about seven hours of Wii a week, and for those purposes, it's perfect. My wife is already quite excited about Wii Fit and I about Wii Music. Do there need to be more games in the Wii-line? Absolutely. But I think that we will see a whole lot more of them once Nintendo catches up to the demand that they created, to their own surprise.
Now, I'm not saying that older gamers don't enjoy their Playstations and Xboxes, but I imagine that they consider themselves more hardcore gamers. I don't, I'm a casual, and I say it with pride!
Golden Darkness
Member
Kaijima said:
Agreed with this, especially with the bolded.
relaxor said:
I don't think it's just the other two platform brands, but the entire industry outside Nintendo that's pushing an image of darker and edgier for that particular demographic. I mean it seems to me that...
M and T rated games make up the majority of the coverage by gaming news (as in in-depth coverage)
M and T rated games gets access to most of the development resources
Basically there is no drive to seriously promote and produce high quality "family-friendly" games. Is it any wonder people only think only "violent" games exists? Doesn't help if that's the only games the industry is willing to spend multi-million dollars on...
This article misses the point. We're not asking Nintendo to make mature games instead of what they do now, just to make them as well, or at least get some third parties on board.
They consistently miss out on the biggest multiplat franchises in gaming. If they could get these as well, then I wouldn't need a PS3.
They consistently miss out on the biggest multiplat franchises in gaming. If they could get these as well, then I wouldn't need a PS3.
Nobody is calling for Nintendo to stop making the Marios and Zeldas of the world [well, the sane ones at least don't]. At worst, I see people calling for them to expand their gaming line-up that do appeal to older players.
Nintendo has profits out of their asshole, why not, you know, use some of that money to make a broader range of games? Shocking, I know.
Nintendo has profits out of their asshole, why not, you know, use some of that money to make a broader range of games? Shocking, I know.
herod said:
If ps3 had Wii Metroid and MArio Galaxy I would not need a Wii.
Nintendo will not make mature games, as well as Disney is not making mature movies.
As for third parties, they are surely evaluating the Wii, but not really for providing the same games as on the HD market.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
reilo said:
Have you read Iwata's Q&A recently?
reilo said:
You see no expansion, no broad range? To older players especially?
What I think you mean is expansion into the already-cornered by Sony and MS young man demographic. Nintendo tried that, last generation. And it didn't go so well.
Tideas said:
I agree, the PS2 was the industry's precedent for the Wii. But the Wii is leapfrogging over what the PS2 accomplished, saying that the PS3 can continue that legacy, while going for something even bigger.
reilo said:
There's the issue of internal competencies. I don't see Nintendo making one of those mature titles just because they'd be diverting a team that could be making a great Zelda game to doing something that may not be in their skillset.
I don't disagree that they can find a studio or studios somewhere and fund them to produce games but the truth is They have. You don't hear about it because they just don't sell so well or are niche in nature. One of my favorite titles this cycle is Hotel Dusk and it was one of those projects Nintendo finances and no one else could have pulled off.
Interesting article.
I agree with the idea that Nintendo does a wonderful job pulling in users to the world of gaming. If we had all inaccessible or less accessible games, the industry would certainly be seeing less growth.
I disagree with the idea that gamers necessarily crave darker more 'mature' experiences... To be honest, I find the state of 'mature' gaming despicable. I find many Nintendo games analalogous to Pixar films. They're enjoyable to a wide range of audiences, including most intelligent and mature adults, although on the surface they appear to be childish movies. Of the 'darker' and more 'mature' titles around, I find the vast majority analogous to your average summer blockbuster, with wonderful special effects, some profanity, perhaps some nudity, but absolutely shallow and forgettable flicks. There are obviously exceptions to this, but I really find that these 'mature' games seem more targeted to adolescents, men with a bit of an immature side, and not too many women.
In the end, I think there is a place in gaming for both, and there is no reason to think either will die off.
I agree with the idea that Nintendo does a wonderful job pulling in users to the world of gaming. If we had all inaccessible or less accessible games, the industry would certainly be seeing less growth.
I disagree with the idea that gamers necessarily crave darker more 'mature' experiences... To be honest, I find the state of 'mature' gaming despicable. I find many Nintendo games analalogous to Pixar films. They're enjoyable to a wide range of audiences, including most intelligent and mature adults, although on the surface they appear to be childish movies. Of the 'darker' and more 'mature' titles around, I find the vast majority analogous to your average summer blockbuster, with wonderful special effects, some profanity, perhaps some nudity, but absolutely shallow and forgettable flicks. There are obviously exceptions to this, but I really find that these 'mature' games seem more targeted to adolescents, men with a bit of an immature side, and not too many women.
In the end, I think there is a place in gaming for both, and there is no reason to think either will die off.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
Satoru Iwata said:
Just to answer to reilo's question.
Count Dookkake
Member
Pretty good article but it seems to omit the greatest thing Nintendo has done for the industry.
By having immense success with something as non-threatening to normal people as the Wii, they have exposed older generations, moms in particular, to a version of gaming that is not violent or tawdry. This will prevent future Jack Thompsons from gaining traction, since it is harder for the haus fraus to demonize something that they enjoy.
By having immense success with something as non-threatening to normal people as the Wii, they have exposed older generations, moms in particular, to a version of gaming that is not violent or tawdry. This will prevent future Jack Thompsons from gaining traction, since it is harder for the haus fraus to demonize something that they enjoy.
bigmakstudios
Banned
relaxor said:
All I've seen is Nintendo making a few dumbed down, generic games that are far worse than their average titles, doing little if anything to prove the worth of motion sensing aside from facilitating the oversimplification of games, and, in their only internally produced games worth playing, which constitute the majority of Wii's quality games, continuing to reuse the same IPs that have existed for 20 years now.
avatar299 said:
Tomb Raider (the original btw) is far less accessible a game than the likes of Mass Effect. The controls were tank-like and this was one of the first 3d games, with everything that brings to the table. Mind you it wasn't my first game (faar from it) but it was for a lot of people.
Count Dookkake
Member
Stinkles said:
Well, you might need to brush up on the reading comprehension, home-schooled or not, because at no point was I talking about any definition of gaming.
The point is busy-bodies have an easier time demonizing something they have not experienced in a positive way. Many of the same people who try to restrict videogames do not understand the conecpt of genre in videogames ("It's all sex and violence!"), but they understand it in movies, music and books. By letting a HUGE population of older women see that gaming is not the devil's work, you make it that much harder for the Jack Thompsons of the world to rile up the bored moms.
:lolbigmakstudios said:
A shame most companies seem to rely on this mantra as well. Nintendo aren't the only guilty party.
It's a real shame too that Rockstar North haven't touched anything original since they set the world alight with GTA - besides two shitty games, and a series that relies upon violence to gain profit. This is coming from the company that created Lemmings and Unirally, two excellent and respected titles, as well as the awesome and very original Space Station Silicon Valley. No offence to their latest GTA as it is one of the better games I've played in years, but the truth needs to be stated in the sense that it's the same gameplay refined and retuned.
Other companies aren't immune to this disease: Square & Enix, Sega, id Software, Capcom, EA, Namco, Konami, Valve, Blizzard, Epic, etc etc.
As with everything concerned in business the companies are there to make money. Once they hit something that sells, they will pump it out constantly.
PolyGone said:
I think you're missing his point (Although I don't entirely agree with it, either). He isn't saying that games shouldn't aspire to do more, it's that "more complex controls" does not equate to "aspiring to do more."
Take Go, for example, a game that is much more sophisticated and deep than Metal Gear Solid 1, 2 or 3. People have been trying to master it for centuries. And yet, there is really only one "button" necessary to play: put a piece on the board. The end.
So the point isn't that games can or cannot be more, it's that "complex controls" are irrelevant to whether a game is more sophisticated or not. A game can be rich and deep with simple or complex controls.
Hmm... it really isnt an article that tells me something new.
But still, its an interesting read. I dont agree with a few points though. I do agree that if Nintendo would have grown up like some older players have suggested, then that would hurt the industry. I mean, I cant imagine Nintendo making games around big and mature themes. Unless they hired a studio to do it for them. I never got that, that Nintendo needed to grow up. Sure, story wise the N-games are not very magical or grand, but its better then games who try to give the public a story en fail horribly.
I disagree with the opinion that Call of Duty 4 couldnt reach a new public. Yes it can, but it all depends of the person who plays the game. Its not that difficult of an game, has an acceptable learning curve. Mass Effect is a perfect example. The game is targeted towards people who played/playing western rpgs/or in general.
And I dont think of Nintendo games as entry products and pave the way towards more mature content. Sure, Nintendo was my gateway to gaming too. (NES and GB) That just a style you have to dig or not. Because, according to the article Im stuck in my nurturing phase for 16 years. Nah, just kidding. I really think its all about the style and feel of the games and you will have to decide if its your thing or not. In my case, its my thing.
And of course, define mature. I think its a bit meaningless.
But still, its an interesting read. I dont agree with a few points though. I do agree that if Nintendo would have grown up like some older players have suggested, then that would hurt the industry. I mean, I cant imagine Nintendo making games around big and mature themes. Unless they hired a studio to do it for them. I never got that, that Nintendo needed to grow up. Sure, story wise the N-games are not very magical or grand, but its better then games who try to give the public a story en fail horribly.
I disagree with the opinion that Call of Duty 4 couldnt reach a new public. Yes it can, but it all depends of the person who plays the game. Its not that difficult of an game, has an acceptable learning curve. Mass Effect is a perfect example. The game is targeted towards people who played/playing western rpgs/or in general.
And I dont think of Nintendo games as entry products and pave the way towards more mature content. Sure, Nintendo was my gateway to gaming too. (NES and GB) That just a style you have to dig or not. Because, according to the article Im stuck in my nurturing phase for 16 years. Nah, just kidding. I really think its all about the style and feel of the games and you will have to decide if its your thing or not. In my case, its my thing.
And of course, define mature. I think its a bit meaningless.
The point isn't that someone who never gamed cannot play and enjoy COD4, that's entirely possible. The point is that it's very unlikely and the vast majority of people who bought COD4 have played FPS games before. And then there are the kids who shouldn't be playing COD4 due to the rating.Sadist said:
bigmakstudios said:
.
Mithos Yggdrasill
Banned
bigmakstudios said:
And what about Super Mario Galaxy, one of the best (if not the best) game of this generation?
One of its major strentgh is the excellent use of the Wiimote.
Third Parties are making shitty things with the Wii (outside some exceptions), but Nintendo's games are qualitative great until now. (edited: outside Mario Kart Wii).
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