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Medalion
Banned
(02-07-2010, 03:02 AM)
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I always have my GPU fan at maximum, but yeah my game starts to stutter after awhile... this game needs more time to smooth out is edges, literally and metaphorically.
nataku
Member
(02-07-2010, 03:07 AM)
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Well, the 1737MB file that the patcher itself downloaded didn't even work... fatal error: read wrong number of bytes.

Deleted it and it's now downloading a 1734MB file, the same size it downloaded the first time I got the fatal error.
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-07-2010, 03:11 AM)
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Originally Posted by Truant

Same thing happens to me. My GPU fan goes CRAZY.

It stays cool and quiet with Mass Effect 2, STALKER, Crysis, Age of Conan - all vastly better looking games.

That's because you may be either CPU limited in those games, or you're running vsync. Either way, download a utility like GPU-Z to check your GPU usage while playing the games. Star Trek Online will probably be using your GPU much more than those, if this is what you're reporting. STO is very demanding GPU wise. Turn shadows down to Low if you want to significantly lower your usage.

There's nothing a game can do to fry a video card. Games don't have low level access to things like fan speed or clock speeds either, so there's absolutely nothing out of the ordinary going on. Video cards should be designed to accommodate 100% usage. Sadly, most of the cooling solutions are extremely sub-par. That's why I liked to buy a video card with better than stock cooling.

With my MSI GTX 275, I keep my fan at a constant 35%, and my temps max out at roughly 85C. Runs perfectly, runs quiet, no issues in any game whatseoever.



If you're worried about what high usage can do to your video card, download Furmark. Run the stress test. Monitor your temps with GPU-Z or RivaTuner. The fact that your fan runs at 100% doesn't mean your card is running dangerously hot...the default cooling profile for some video cards is very aggressive and keeps temps lower than they need to be. With stress testing, you can figure out what fan speed is low enough to keep your temps at an acceptable level. For me, it means that I can now keep my fan speed at 35%, rather than have the profile automatically bring it up to 60-70%, which is deafening.
Metiphis
Member
(02-07-2010, 03:28 AM)
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Ok just got my new laptop, game has 3 hours to go on downloading from Direct to Drive, and I should be joining you guys shortly. I just have one question, "can I run it" program says my GPU isn't powerful enough for this game. So could someone look at my specs and tell me if I'm ok??

Processor and Graphics
Intel Core i7-720QM Processor
1.6 GHz (2.8 GHz with Turbo Boost Technology), 6MB L3 Cache
Mobile Intel PM55 Express Chipset
NVIDIA GeForce GTS 360M with 1GB GDDR5 discrete graphics
memory, plus up to 1274MB dynamically allocated shared graphics
memory using NVIDIA TurboCache technology.
Total Available Graphics memory 2298MB

Memory
Configured with 4GB DDR3 1066MHz

Any feedback would be appreciated!
Truant
Member
(02-07-2010, 03:28 AM)
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Look, I have an i7, and lets be honest here, the game looks pretty dated. I don't buy the 'It's your computer' arguments for a second.

EDIT: Seems even the developers acknowledged the issue on the forums.
JdFoX187
Banned
(02-07-2010, 03:30 AM)
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I haven't been on in several days. Time to log some hours tonight and tomorrow.
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-07-2010, 03:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Truant

Look, I have an i7, and lets be honest here, the game looks pretty dated. I don't buy the 'It's your computer' arguments for a second.

EDIT: Seems even the developers acknowledged the issue on the forums.

*sigh*

It's not an issue. I'm telling you that there's nothing special in a code that can say "fry video card". If you're getting less than 60fps with vsync and your CPU is not at 100% usage, then your video card is your bottleneck. Under normal circumstances, bottlenecking hardware should be used at 100%. Just because some people's video cards are unable to maintain such usage does not mean the game is at fault.

Complaining about the visuals produced by the engine is a different matter altogether. A game can look dated and still have huge GPU requirements.

edit: I'll run GPU-z while in game, with vsync disabled to show you what stressing the GPU will look like. Keep in mind I'm running at an incredibly low 35% fan speed, which means my temps will max out pretty high.

edit2: also, if we're assuming that there is indeed something out of the ordinary causing these cards to overheat, then it's purely a driver issue.

BTW, here the issue you're referring to:

http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=88393

From previously wiped thread~

Just a reminder that there was bug in the beta that caused videocards to overheat. By using the /maxfps command u can check your framrate limit. Previously it was set to 0.00 which caused your videocard to run at redline. Using a setting of 30-60 could save you from ruining your video card. /maxfps 60

All that means is that since there's no framerate limit, the game will render all it can if you're not running with Vsync. All that means is that the game has the ability to push the GPU to 100%. There's nothing wrong with that.

Here's a reply which I agree with whole-heartedly:

Not to belittle everyone's problems or frustrations, but you are simply incorrect here. A software application cannot cause a video card to overheat. Software cannot make a video card do something that it is not programmed to do. It's likely a driver issue, or unfortunately a flaw in the card itself. I have a GTX 260 as someone else here claims to have and mine smokes this game without breaking a sweat. If software could kill a video card, then all of the graphical stress test programs would have warnings plastered all over them.

It's been stated before but software cannot kill your video card, it can however expose a failure in the hardware, which is all that is happening. Further proof of the video card failure is if it doesn't shut off or crash out of the application due to the heat. All video cards that I'm aware of have built in protection to shut it down when it reaches certain temperatures. If it's not shutting down, definitely sounds like a problem with the card itself.

Like I said, I sympathize, I feel your pain and I don't want to marginalize this issue, but it's not the software's fault. Please stop blaming Cryptic for this.

Truant
Member
(02-07-2010, 03:46 AM)
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I'm aware of that, I'm just saying it's strange that there are several threads about the issue - even when the developers of the game are posting in the thread saying that there is some problems in the renderer. As of now, it looks like the VSYNC option doesn't prevent the engine from rendering more than what your monitor is able to display. The frames are rendered, but only 60 are displayed. Looks like the only workaround is to use the -maxfps command line. It appears this will be worked into a future patch.

Lowered by average temperature by 40%, seems to be working for a lot of other people too. Strange, since I replaced all stock heatsinks and fans with better ones. Never had this problem with any other game before.
nataku
Member
(02-07-2010, 03:47 AM)
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Ran chkdsk and everything says it's fine, but the game just won't even start now. No amount of deleting and re-downloading the file bins.hogg will let me into the game now.
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-07-2010, 04:07 AM)
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Here are my GPU-Z stats after 10 minutes in the game:



I disabled vsync and forced all settings to max to get the most usage. 98% usage, with my fan speed at 35%, and I didn't even reach 70C. No problemo.

Originally Posted by nataku

Ran chkdsk and everything says it's fine, but the game just won't even start now. No amount of deleting and re-downloading the file bins.hogg will let me into the game now.

Maybe Windows drive compression is compressing some files and the game doesn't like it? Try turning that off.

nataku
Member
(02-07-2010, 04:27 AM)
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Nope, that box is unchecked. I never turn on drive compression.

I'll just try uninstalling and reinstalling again, I guess. I've never had this many problems with any PC game before, even those that were supposed to be a buggy mess at launch.
Medalion
Banned
(02-07-2010, 04:30 AM)
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I dunno what's going on with you, despite I am not free of bugs, I am not having nearly as many problems as you seem to be speaking of. This game is far from perfect or polished, but I think there are other factors at play besides a half-baked release and patches.
Guardian Bob
Member
(02-07-2010, 04:49 AM)
Anyone know how to take a screen cap on a macbook pro?
nataku
Member
(02-07-2010, 04:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Medalion

I dunno what's going on with you, despite I am not free of bugs, I am not having nearly as many problems as you seem to be speaking of. This game is far from perfect or polished, but I think there are other factors at play besides a half-baked release and patches.

I'm sure, but as far as I can tell nothing is broken in my system. All my other games run fine, and Windows runs perfect. If Cryptic would bother to have an actual human reply to my emails I might be able to make some progress on what in my system, if anything, isn't compatible with their game.

Anyway. the reinstall did nothing. I did get into the game, but crashed minutes later when I warped into the Earth spaceport region. Same file is the issue, bins.hogg.

I've been meaning to buy Windows 7, so maybe I'll just go do that tomorrow and see what happens. Though I'd rather not install a new OS on my current HDD. It's only 320GB, and I've been needing more space for awhile... I'm not sure if I really want to spend $200 on an OS and new HDD.
Zzoram
Member
(02-07-2010, 04:54 AM)
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My GPU is fine, and it's an ATI Radeon HD4870 512MB with the stock cooler. I have it running at a constant 40% fan speed, slight overclock, and I've been able to play for ~5 straight hours without any sign of overheating. My idle temperature is around 47C and I haven't checked my load in STO compared to other games, but clearly it isn't getting any higher.

I have vsync on, 1680x1050, high/on everything except shadows (ground combat is choppy enough due to lag rubberbanding, the shadows seemed to be making it worse but I'm not sure), and default draw distances.

Old 4800 series drivers locked the fan speed at 10% even at 100% load, so that combined with poor ventillation and a dusty case could be causing some people to overheat. The new drivers allow custom fan speed and default well above 10%. I'm not sure if any of the 8800 series had low fan speeds locked, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of those 8800GT cards had crappy coolers because of the pressure to keep those cards cheap to sell a lot around the release of Crysis.
Zzoram
Member
(02-07-2010, 04:55 AM)
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Originally Posted by nataku

I'm sure, but as far as I can tell nothing is broken in my system. All my other games run fine, and Windows runs perfect. If Cryptic would bother to have an actual human reply to my emails I might be able to make some progress on what in my system, if anything, isn't compatible with their game.

Anyway. the reinstall did nothing. I did get into the game, but crashed minutes later when I warped into the Earth spaceport region. Same file is the issue, bins.hogg.

I've been meaning to buy Windows 7, so maybe I'll just go do that tomorrow and see what happens. Though I'd rather not install a new OS on my current HDD. It's only 320GB, and I've been needing more space for awhile... I'm not sure if I really want to spend $200 on an OS and new HDD.

What is your OS, driver version, and video card? Did you try installing the latest version of DirectX?
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-07-2010, 06:04 AM)
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BTW if you want to know why there are cooling issues with certain video cards, look no further than this article:

http://www.anandtech.com/weblog/showpost.aspx?i=657

As we previously noted in our 5970 review, when overclocked the card was throttling down in two cases. One was when running OCCT/FurMark, members of AMD’s “power virus” list by virtue of the fact that they put a card under a greater load than AMD believes to be realistically possible.

So AMD basically takes a stress testing application like FurMark and ignores it, since it supposedly puts the video card under more stress than it will ever realistically take. That is a pretty stupid position to take. That's just as bad as PSU manufacturers claiming their PSUs will do a certain wattage when that much will outright kill them. Really, the stock cooling supplied for high end cards has been absolutely laughable for many years now. If I had a top of the line card, I'd never use stock cooling. Not to mention the noise that the cooling makes...their 5970 produces over 64dB of noise at stock settings, which is absolutely ludicrous.

Originally Posted by Zzoram

I have vsync on, 1680x1050, high/on everything except shadows (ground combat is choppy enough due to lag rubberbanding, the shadows seemed to be making it worse but I'm not sure), and default draw distances.

Same here. Shadows seem to make the game hitch. I'm guessing it has something to do with how they deal with graphics streaming...it's probably a bandwidth issue.

Originally Posted by Zzoram

Old 4800 series drivers locked the fan speed at 10% even at 100% load, so that combined with poor ventillation and a dusty case could be causing some people to overheat. The new drivers allow custom fan speed and default well above 10%. I'm not sure if any of the 8800 series had low fan speeds locked, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of those 8800GT cards had crappy coolers because of the pressure to keep those cards cheap to sell a lot around the release of Crysis.

They certainly did. With my old 8800GT, I had no fan control, and my temps went up to 95C in games. I sent in a support ticket to XFX and they sent me a new cooler.

I'm definitely not bothering with stock cooling again. The lower temps and more importantly the low noise levels is well worth investing in a better cooling solution. If you don't want to buy one yourself, there are plenty of video card manufacturers that include a better cooling solution (like the Sapphire Vapor-X cards).
nataku
Member
(02-07-2010, 07:53 AM)
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Originally Posted by Zzoram

What is your OS, driver version, and video card? Did you try installing the latest version of DirectX?

Vista 32bit :(
512MB 8800GT with 196.21 and the latest Direct X version installed.

I'll probably just end up getting Windows 7 tomorrow plus a bigger HDD. I've been meaning to get both anyway. I've got $150 in gift cards to use up, which should cover a big chunk of the cost.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
(02-07-2010, 05:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Truant

I'm aware of that, I'm just saying it's strange that there are several threads about the issue - even when the developers of the game are posting in the thread saying that there is some problems in the renderer. As of now, it looks like the VSYNC option doesn't prevent the engine from rendering more than what your monitor is able to display. The frames are rendered, but only 60 are displayed. Looks like the only workaround is to use the -maxfps command line. It appears this will be worked into a future patch.

Lowered by average temperature by 40%, seems to be working for a lot of other people too. Strange, since I replaced all stock heatsinks and fans with better ones. Never had this problem with any other game before.


Very interesting. I'm playing on a 17" Macbook Pro, and yeh, it gets hot playing L4D2 and the like, but nothing makes the fans come on like STO. I'll try limiting the FPS with -maxfps and see if that makes a difference.

Also, joined gafleet the other night as well.

six@nihilistic-monkey
Winterblink
Member
(02-07-2010, 05:16 PM)
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Decided to give this game a try, purchased it on Steam but apparently it's been "pending" for the last 12 hours at least. No idea why, had hoped to play some of this today. And yes I know this is probably a Steam issue rather than a STO one. :p

In the meantime, any recommendations from folks for a soon-to-be new player? :D
Walshicus
(02-07-2010, 05:17 PM)
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Can I get another invite to GAFfleet? ESel@walshicus or E'Sel@walshicus - can't remember if it uses the apostrophe.
Nihilistic Monk
Member
(02-07-2010, 05:32 PM)
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Originally Posted by Winterblink

Decided to give this game a try, purchased it on Steam but apparently it's been "pending" for the last 12 hours at least. No idea why, had hoped to play some of this today. And yes I know this is probably a Steam issue rather than a STO one. :p

In the meantime, any recommendations from folks for a soon-to-be new player? :D

Read up on the skill trees in the forums, decide what skills for the class you wish to play as should be invested in.

Info is still sketchy on what's going to be useful at the endgame, and coming from someone who just added points to anything because he had no idea what's going on, I'm still enjoying the game, but hope they add re-specs soon.

You get larger bonuses putting a few points into everything (i.e. from +1 to +6 etc, instead of from +18 to +18.5), so some people are putting 4 into everything, then 7 in the skills they wish to progress more.

Also, I invested in space stuff first, before any ground skills. Most of the early missions are in space anyway, with very little ground combat until later on.
Zzoram
Member
(02-07-2010, 05:46 PM)
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Even though they said there would be in-game respec for some in-game currency, they haven't implemented it yet or given us any news on it. That's annoying, I already have some points I want to undo.
Zombiesaurus
Junior Member
(02-07-2010, 05:47 PM)
/
Zzoram
Member
(02-07-2010, 05:47 PM)
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Originally Posted by Nihilistic Monk

Read up on the skill trees in the forums, decide what skills for the class you wish to play as should be invested in.

Info is still sketchy on what's going to be useful at the endgame, and coming from someone who just added points to anything because he had no idea what's going on, I'm still enjoying the game, but hope they add re-specs soon.

You get larger bonuses putting a few points into everything (i.e. from +1 to +6 etc, instead of from +18 to +18.5), so some people are putting 4 into everything, then 7 in the skills they wish to progress more.

Also, I invested in space stuff first, before any ground skills. Most of the early missions are in space anyway, with very little ground combat until later on.

I noticed this and started doing it recently. I still put 0 in things I don't think I'll need/use, but I'm trying not to go over 7 for things unless I have to spend more to advance in rank or if I have nothing left to spend them on.
Walshicus
(02-07-2010, 07:00 PM)
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Definitely easier at lower levels compared to the Beta.

Anyone able to invite to fleet as above? :D
Medalion
Banned
(02-07-2010, 07:02 PM)
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I'll try to remember to spread my skill points across everything instead of specializing others.
Zzoram
Member
(02-07-2010, 07:09 PM)
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Originally Posted by Medalion

I'll try to remember to spread my skill points across everything instead of specializing others.

The break points are 4 and 7. The first 4 points will give at least +4 and sometimes +6. From 5 to 7 you get +2.
JWong
Banned
(02-07-2010, 08:13 PM)
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Seriously? The server went down in the midday?

Holy cripes.
Proteus
BOSS
(02-07-2010, 08:17 PM)
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Originally Posted by JWong

Seriously? The server went down in the midday?

Holy cripes.

It says it is up for me. Haven't tried logging in though.
dbed34
Junior Member
(02-07-2010, 09:00 PM)
I'm wondering is anyone else is thinking that this queue system needs to be fixed cause I don't know about paying 15 bucks a month just to stay in a queue in order to play during the weekends.... I find it irritating to say the least..
Walshicus
(02-07-2010, 09:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorWho

It says it is up for me. Haven't tried logging in though.

Up for me too.
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-07-2010, 09:06 PM)
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Originally Posted by dbed34

I'm wondering is anyone else is thinking that this queue system needs to be fixed cause I don't know about paying 15 bucks a month just to stay in a queue in order to play during the weekends.... I find it irritating to say the least..

There will be no queues after the first month. MMOs are always like this in the first month. Be happy you weren't playing Aion at launch.
Proteus
BOSS
(02-07-2010, 09:18 PM)
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Game just crashed out for me. Putting me back in a queue. :(
Walshicus
(02-07-2010, 09:25 PM)
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Originally Posted by DoctorWho

Game just crashed out for me. Putting me back in a queue. :(

Haven't seen a queue yet and I'd had a few restarts tonight...

Also, fleet invite! :D
Medalion
Banned
(02-07-2010, 09:47 PM)
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The only time I've seen a queue was lining up to do a mission on one of the systems wars, but not to actually play the game itself.
Walshicus
(02-07-2010, 11:27 PM)
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I am getting so pissed off with how unstable this game is now. The beta crashed on me twice in a week of heavy usage. The full game is crashing on me nigh every half hour.
borghe
Loves the Greater Toronto Area
(02-08-2010, 12:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sir Fragula

I am getting so pissed off with how unstable this game is now. The beta crashed on me twice in a week of heavy usage. The full game is crashing on me nigh every half hour.

game crashes on me every once in a while... seems to be when my 5770 is under load in ground missions and some sort of effect. Never had it crashed out on me in space and one time in the Celes hidden base it would crash on me during almost every fight. Finally I dropped settings down to lowest possible and it didn't crash. Not pleased with that level of stability, though this is the first time it's crashed on me in maybe a couple of days.
Walshicus
(02-08-2010, 12:30 AM)
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Originally Posted by borghe

game crashes on me every once in a while... seems to be when my 5770 is under load in ground missions and some sort of effect. Never had it crashed out on me in space and one time in the Celes hidden base it would crash on me during almost every fight. Finally I dropped settings down to lowest possible and it didn't crash. Not pleased with that level of stability, though this is the first time it's crashed on me in maybe a couple of days.

I'm on a 4850. Will try that for ground missions.

EDIT: Fixed it! Wasn't sure since it never made my card go beyond 90% usage or usual heat... but managed to get through!
randomlyrossy
Member
(02-08-2010, 12:52 AM)
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Well since my 360 RRODed before I could finish Mass Effect 2 I decided to start up my STO account a little earlier than planned.

Could I get a Gafleet invite please? Randome@randomlyrossy.
borghe
Loves the Greater Toronto Area
(02-08-2010, 01:17 AM)
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Originally Posted by Sir Fragula

I'm on a 4850. Will try that for ground missions.

EDIT: Fixed it! Wasn't sure since it never made my card go beyond 90% usage or usual heat... but managed to get through!

yeah, I don't get it.. I've maxed out this card a number of times in the past few weeks and nothing major.. but STO just crashes under load for some reason.. I'd blame the netcode possibly... I always seem to crash during primetime, but off hours I am in what I assume is basically the exact same type of fights graphically and I don't crash at all.... just a guess but I really don't know.

sucks because with all of the effects turned down it's really not a great looking game. IMHO it's barely a nice looking game with everything turned up. Turned down and it's not even WoW.. like pre-Luclin EQ1 at best. which is even more confusing on the crashes on a card that can handle it at 45fps @1650x1080 under most circumstances and only drops to maybe 25fps during the intense battles... don't get why it's crashing.
Medalion
Banned
(02-08-2010, 01:30 AM)
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I don't know if I wasn't paying attention... but there is a new option at the character select screen I can choose to be a Klingon player now. But I can also choose other races.

So far I made a Klingon character named Emperor Kah'less lol
Walshicus
(02-08-2010, 01:32 AM)
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Originally Posted by borghe

yeah, I don't get it.. I've maxed out this card a number of times in the past few weeks and nothing major.. but STO just crashes under load for some reason.. I'd blame the netcode possibly... I always seem to crash during primetime, but off hours I am in what I assume is basically the exact same type of fights graphically and I don't crash at all.... just a guess but I really don't know.

sucks because with all of the effects turned down it's really not a great looking game. IMHO it's barely a nice looking game with everything turned up. Turned down and it's not even WoW.. like pre-Luclin EQ1 at best. which is even more confusing on the crashes on a card that can handle it at 45fps @1650x1080 under most circumstances and only drops to maybe 25fps during the intense battles... don't get why it's crashing.

Posted on the STO tech forum, in case they weren't aware. Someone commented that it's the dynamic lighting that causes the crash. I'm going to experiment a bit tomorrow, but at least it doesn't mean setting to ugly every ground mission if true!
Druz
Banned
(02-08-2010, 01:43 AM)
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any mention of Eurogamers review? 6/10 - not low enough imo.
Zzoram
Member
(02-08-2010, 01:48 AM)
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Originally Posted by Druz

any mention of Eurogamers review? 6/10 - not low enough imo.

I can't disagree with that score, yet I find myself compelled to keep playing, moreso than I feel compelled to play games I would give an 8/10. Funny how review scores work. There are so many games that everyone will agree should get a high score yet nobody wants to play for long, and there are a few games that everyone will agree should get a low score yet people can't stop playing them.

The problem is that "fun" is pretty much never mentioned in a review, because that isn't what reviews are looking at.
Guardian Bob
Member
(02-08-2010, 02:02 AM)
Yeah, technically its a 6/10 but I still fight with myself to stop playing it.
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-08-2010, 02:06 AM)
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Originally Posted by borghe

sucks because with all of the effects turned down it's really not a great looking game. IMHO it's barely a nice looking game with everything turned up. Turned down and it's not even WoW.. like pre-Luclin EQ1 at best. which is even more confusing on the crashes on a card that can handle it at 45fps @1650x1080 under most circumstances and only drops to maybe 25fps during the intense battles... don't get why it's crashing.

Wow you guys are drama queens. EQ1? Really? This looks far better than EQ2.

This game performs no worse than WoW does with shadows maxed. You ever try going to Grizzly Hills with shadows and distance maxed? My E6600 @ 3.0GHz and GTX 275 couldn't even top 20fps. And hey, lets not mention Dalaran, which never tops 20fps no matter what graphical settings are used.
Zzoram
Member
(02-08-2010, 02:07 AM)
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Originally Posted by Medalion

I don't know if I wasn't paying attention... but there is a new option at the character select screen I can choose to be a Klingon player now. But I can also choose other races.

So far I made a Klingon character named Emperor Kah'less lol

You can only make a Klingon faction character once you have a Federation character at lvl 6.
randomlyrossy
Member
(02-08-2010, 02:10 AM)
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Could someone send me another Fleet invite? I got one when I logged in just now but it disappeared before I could do anything with it.

Randome@randomlyrossy
TheExodu5
Banned
(02-08-2010, 02:42 AM)
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Just created my Klingon.

General Chang, of the warbird Star Trek VI. :lol

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