And miss an opportunity to sell the same game twice? You sweet summer child.
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Final Fantasy VII Remake shifts to internal dev under Mobius project leader
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
And miss an opportunity to sell the same game twice? You sweet summer child.
Dude there's no way they release 3 episodes and charge 60 bucks for every episode.
Am I crazy for thinking that?
UnemployedVillain
Member
I bet they'll be $40-50 each. They'll come up with some nonsense about how this is more content than a standard episodic series to justify it
If they are 20+ hours long each and have a couple years between each release? Then they will definitely be $60.
Etrian Oddity
Member
You are absolutely crazy if you think they won't charge $60 per episode for a game whose development will probably take the rest of this decade and cost a ton
How is it people still trust SquareEnix in delivering their own IPs nowadays ? FF7 remake is going to be a 7/10 game at best irregardless on when it's coming out . CC2 , episodic , these are the few obvious keywords that it isn't going to end up well when it's first announced .
They'll be 100$ each (with DLC pass) if they still only do 3 episodes.
I have the bitingly cynical opinion that CC2's version would have been 3 episodes likely further split into vignettes , no open world segments , etc just to stick with a solid release schedule but now ? I have no idea what's going to happen.
I really thought I wanted this more than anything when it was announced 2 years ago but the release of Starcraft remastered and announcement of age of empires remastered has changed things. I just want a new coat of paint drawn on top of the original game with nothing else really changed short of re-rendered cutscenes , a paltry amount of voice work and a fresh no nonsense translation.
Alas, we're going to get a conversion mod of FFXV and we'll have to buy it 3 or 4 times.
Blackleg-sanji1
Banned
Somebody will make a ffvii mod in the pc version of Xv before this comes out
Paracelsus
Member
No, because they know their tools and their limits. The shift to HD development in 2007 decimated homeconsole japanese developers, the only one that delivered on a consistent basis no matter what was Capcom, the others were either slow and good, slow and bad or outright embarrassing. Square falls in the last category.
Can you name any other company that had to remake a flagship mmo from scratch, took five years for a corridor jrpg, recycled a mutilated spin-off into a mothership entry because they had nothing else ready and took 13 years (KH3 is late 2018) for a flagship sequel even after the shift to a mainstream easy to use engine?
I can't.
Orthogonal
Member
Wonder what quality concerns Square had to pull it all in house. Everything released to the public previously was very well received by the fans.
You're kidding youself if you think this won't be full price.
Duke Nukem Forever was an even worse FFXV situation before FFXV and KH3 wasn't announced until 2013. The other KH games might not have numbered titles but they are most just as important and quite good so it's ridiculous to act like the series has been dormant for 13 years.
It is also worth noticing that KH was (is?) Square best-selling game in North America with 3.5m copies (more than FFVII), and that the sequel also sold really, really well.
This game has been in development since 2014 and we have barely seen anything from it. It's not coming out this generation and I would be surprised it if comes out next generation. I really wish they wouldn't have been so ambitious and just gave us a HD version of the original with additional story elements and a few additional dungeons.
Teletraan1
Banned
I just wanted a simple remake. Every single thing they have ever said about this game just made it seem like something that was going to take way too much time to actually do. The thing that sucks about PS1 era games was usually the graphics. Early 3D does not hold up well at all. Fix up the graphics and tweak the battle system and story a bit and we would have had this game by the end of the generation and all in one piece.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
FFVIIvsXVI
Final Fantasy XVI: Evangelium Ominus/VII+IX
Not only that but DQXI is confirmed for worldwide release next year.
I know there's other factors at play. KHIII had to change engines from Luminous to Unreal after it turned out Luminous is an awful engine (even after Tabata took over, it still took 2-3 years for XV to come out because the engine was just that bad).
But Nomura clearly can't handle projects of this magnitude.
This would work if Final Fantasy VII were a less popular game to begin with; Square Enix is not new to faithful remakes with updated graphics (Final Fantasy III and IV, the recent Secret of Mana). But Final Fantasy VII is the best-selling jRPG ever (behind Pokémon), and Square best-selling game ever. It has a huge, huge legacy. Therefore, the remake must be something special and unique at the same time. Square Enix bet a lot on this remake given how popular the original game is (it also sold 1m+ units on Steam as well).
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
FF16 is already being made by the FF14 people and will almost surely come out before FF7R.
Maybe FF7R could be FF17 or FF18 though (depending on if this game releases before Tabata's game).
ArkhamFantasy
Member
If UE4 was notably better than Luminous dont you think BD2 would have switched to it years ago? Not only did they stick with it, they've upgraded it for PC and next gen consoles.
It's kind of curious how these never ending release cycle always come from SE. The FF series had troubled development starting with XII and it never stopped and reached ludicrous level with XV which is still getting patched with content. Now VIIR is going to share the same fate. KH3 doesn't seem to be coming out anytime soon either. How can shareholders approve of this?
I hope this means FFXVI will a more fantasy setting!
When are you expecting it to release? I really thought CyberConnect2 was going to release part one by the end of this year. I feel it will end up being broken up into 2 games as I don't think they want to create too many SKUs.
I'm guessing Spring 2020 at the earliest, with the announcement of the PS5.
Square is still turning a profit regardless of poor management.
AlexFlame116
Member
HerroRygar
Member
Speculation, or are you pointing to a known rumor?
I just can't believe some people defend Nomura. This is the third major AAA title in a row to which he has done this, what excuses are left at this point?
Evil Monkey DTT
Banned
I really want to blame their engines but 7 is supposed to be unreal. I think the biggest factor is they announce games 6 years before they start working on them.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
Duckroll and others pointed out that the FF14 leads have been hiring a ton of people with single player experience over the last year and it's generally assumed that they're making FF16 based on these hirings.
Where did you get the info that the team behind FFXIV is handling FFXVI?
I would really like it to become true.
Edit: So just assumptions.
This is undoubtedly the most anticipated game they currently have in development yet they seem to treat it like something they don't want to work on? This company, man.
Dunno why I'm even upset about it cause I don't think their current staff is capable of recapturing the charm and character of the original anyway. I have little doubt at this point that in the future when I have pangs off nostalgia to play 7 again, I'll be much more inclined to hook up my old PlayStation to a CRT and have another run through than play whatever this ends up being. Call me cynical but I just haven't seen anything that gives me even a hint of hope that this will be good yet.
Dunno why I'm even upset about it cause I don't think their current staff is capable of recapturing the charm and character of the original anyway. I have little doubt at this point that in the future when I have pangs off nostalgia to play 7 again, I'll be much more inclined to hook up my old PlayStation to a CRT and have another run through than play whatever this ends up being. Call me cynical but I just haven't seen anything that gives me even a hint of hope that this will be good yet.
TGO
Hype Train conductor. Works harder than it steams.
To an extent I agree but look at Capcom now.
ArkhamFantasy
Member
Multiple factors.
Keep in mind every mainline final fantasy game is basically a new ip. New worlds, new battle systems, brand new everything. New IPs commonly take 4-6 years to make even if your tools and platforms are ideal, most of them get cancelled.
Now imagine the transition to hd, engine troubles, the cell, multiplatform development, and changes to directors, it adds up.
Shareholders put up with it because despite all those problems, the games are still profitable amd SE is making more money than they ever have.
These days, Square Enix makes over $750 million a year in high margin (profit) mobile revenue, and are well on track to making over a billlion a year there, so their flagship console games have actually become a side business for them. Shareholders won't complain as long as they keep delivering there.
Well, the OP makes it sound like BD1 gave up much of their staff to BD2 (FFXV) and BD5 (FFXIV) over the years, and they're very unlikely to get it back, so they will first have to hire 100-150+ people and then make the game for 2-3 years, so 2020+ is probably a realistic estimate.
I guess late 2019 isn't totally impossible, but I certainly wouldn't hold my breath.
That's great news actually. Are they doing it on UE4?
NoctisVsStar
Member
That's the case and people assume cause they see a trailer with combat snippets think the game is actually being worked on. I just laugh cause even after all this time some don't know how Square operates. Hell, SE released FFXV and KH3 trailers at E3 just to drive up console sales.
Dragon1893
Member
I doubt I'll live to see the last episode.
Nice to see that Square-Enix didn't make us wait long for our new
"x is vaporware and never coming out and I am not even going to think about this game existing until I have it in my hands."
We now have another game in which to compare our life events vs how long it took to be announced/come out.
Lol. What a joke company lately with their big titles.
"x is vaporware and never coming out and I am not even going to think about this game existing until I have it in my hands."
We now have another game in which to compare our life events vs how long it took to be announced/come out.
Lol. What a joke company lately with their big titles.
Where did you get the info that the team behind FFXIV is handling FFXVI?
I would really like it to become true.
Edit: So just assumptions.
BD5 (the FFXIV/FFXII/TLR team) has been hiring since at least last year for a big unannounced game:
http://www.jp.square-enix.com/recruit/career/group/5bd/
Some of the leads have mysteriously been taken off FFXIV since Heavensward two years ago:
Several of the major team leads on FFXIV stepped down after Heavensward, including the director of The Last Remnant and the FFXII lead planner.
Are not people already saying that?
Pancake Mix
Copied someone else's pancake recipe
I hate that term, it just confuses people. Thankfully, the game was never going to be episodic as we understand the term.
It's probably still going to be multiple games the size of Final Fantasy XIII like Kitase told us.
I have no idea what really goes in within Square enix' walls outside of the heavily storied FFXIV disaster but based on that (as well as that wonderful FF7 post portem at polygon) , interviews with dev teams and trailers /etc over the last 10 years I can perhaps accurately speculate on why Square is such a disaster since the PS3 launched.
2001 - This was the year of "The Spirits Within" , a bigtime film investment largely spearheaded by Hironobu Sakaguchi coming off the glow offered thanks to a string of huge successes - FF7 and FF8. Square spent 3 times as much money building their movie studio in Hawaii as it cost to make any of their games and then they spent even more money making TSW which as we all know tanked hard at the box office. It didn't bankrupt them but all the profits they made off their entire PS1 library were gone. As well, FFX suffers a months long delay in Japan which also hampers it's US release where it is snuck out just a week prior to Christmas.
2002 - Sakaguchi takes the blame for TSW (and steps down from the company)and the movie studio is pretty much shuttered and sold off. So the company is without a proper pilot after many years of success and the downfall begins. With little cash on hand to expand Square merges with Enix.
2003-2004 - FFXI ends up becoming very profitable , FFX-2 is a success , Dragon Quest 8 makes it out the door and Kingdom hearts is proving a successful new brand. FFXII is announced and delayed. KH2 is announced and delayed.
2005 - PS3 alpha devkits show up and like many japanese developers , early tech tests push well past what the real hardware can actually do. Infamous FF7 demo shown at E3 inspires the FFXIII team to push forward with the new hardware , targeting what I can only guess is a 2007 release date. Dragon Quest 8 attempts to relaunch the brand internationally, it fails to meet sales expectations. FF12 is further delayed and it's lead director quits after suffering a nervous breakdown (probably from overwork). Kingdom hearts 2 finally launches about a year behind schedule.
2006-2009 - FFXIII engine is proving to be too ambitious for the actual PS3 hardware by a substantial factor , lack of proper direction and guidance from above is leading to a very slow pipeline of unusable assets being created for both it and the now well into development FFXIV. FFXII finally releases and a few months later also gets an international release... possibly 18 months behind schedule. Versus XIII is also revealed to the world. Despite all this , FFXIII does just barely creep out in Japan at the end of 2009. In an attempt to keep up with the demands of the gaming public , Square purchases Eidos in order to have an established western development arm attempt to keep them afloat in light of all the problems in their traditional asian business side.
2010 - FFXIII comes out in March , is revealed to be a shiny 30 hour long corridor with a half baked cast of marketable characters and a overly lore heavy backstory. It manages to sell well in spite of this. FFXIV launches to disastrous results just a few months later, adjusting the entire companies direction substantially going forward.
2011-2013 - Restructuring years at square enix , you didn't really hear about it but think back on just how many games came out during this period that were basically outsourced , direct sequels, remasters , etc. Nothing major outside of A realm reborn came out during this entire period. Versus XIII is shitcanned because the god awful engine powering FFXIII can't handle it at higher than 10 fps and the game design is a mess having spent so long in the oven that it's a bloated boring trilogy of Zippers and belts that probably wouldn't sell well (in light of the massively depreciated sales from XIII-2 and LR where they got beaten by a low budget 3DS FF Homage in sales). PS4 devkits arrive and it's decided that enough of the Versus XIII disaster is salvageable that they can release the game in 2014 on the console. Also infamously during this period, the biggest most expensive Eidos title - Tomb Raider , see's release and sells a whopping 4 million copies in a couple months but it's seen as a sales disaster because Square needed the game to prop up 3 years worth of under-preforming titles to keep shareholders happy. A Realm reborn also launches and it's really good ! in a continued effort to please their fanbase and give them what they actually want, Kingdom hearts 3 is also greenlit. The announcement to everyone coincides with the very early start of the games development. What we all saw at E3 for both Versus XIII/XV as well as KH3 were not real games at all. Just the same internal trailers required to get shareholder approval.
2014 - a few months of development in and it's proving that getting Luminous up and running on a PS4 will take at least 4 times as long as intended and the 2014 release date for FFXV becomes a pipe dream so the game is promptly delayed to 2015. Problems with the engine then cascade down to KH3 and it's development is switched the Unreal 4.0 with the hope being that it can be finished by 2016 with a more complete engine. Internally, Cyber Connect 2 has been commissioned to build a prototype/proof of concept for a FF7 remake project.
2015 - Episode Duscae is released after it becomes apparent that Luminous still won't be completed fast enough to even hit that entire year for release. As well, with all the money on the line , it's creation is deemed required to make sure the core game of FFXV is actually good. Luminous is finally finished later this year. So a 12 month crunch is initiated to complete FFXV for release In September of 2016. This is the only window of actual full development the game ever gets. In the meantime , KH3 is running massively behind schedule because switching the Unreal 4.0 wasn't the easy route to victory that was expected. FFXV's delay and A realm reborns continued success buy them some time though and a new release of 2017 was probably in the plans at that point. In order to spur more fans into upgrading to PS4's , FF7R is announced this year and even shown off. These are all lies though as CC2 was only ever brought in to build a prototype of the bombing run to demonstrate some concepts and determine how long it would take to build assets. Dragon quest XI is announced , intended for release on 3DS/PS4 in time for the series 30th anniversary.
2016 - FFXV finally makes its way out the door , half baked and buggy but otherwise a fun game with a terrible story. It meets sales expectations. Dragon Quest XI is delayed a few months. Work is completed on Cyber Connect 2s FF7R concept and by April , it's decided to end their working relationship and take the game internally but all 3 main teams are busy - FFXIV, KH3 and FFXV. An expansion is approved for 2017 to build FF7R properly in house.
2017 - KH3 by this point has undoubtedly received the same ultimatum from above that Tabata got in 2016 - "this game MUST release in 2018 no matter it's completion state". FFXV gets closer to being an actual finished game with each patch and update throughout the year. Final supplemental material is approved to be patched in through 2018 to make the game as finished as possible for work stops. Dragon Quest XI launches in Japan with a western release planned for 2018. From the start of April 1st through to march 31st 2018 a hiring frenzy begins to staff up a brand new team helmed by squares mobile division specifically to complete FF7R. Internally the first episode of this project is being aimed at a 2019 release to still launch on the current hardware generation. Based on everything I've just listed a delay to that goal in inevitable.
2018 to 2021 - Kingdom hearts 3 will finally launch , DQXI will come out world wide , FF7Repisode 1 will make it out the door and we'll see an announcement of FFXVI , it will aim for a 2020 release but probably get delayed to 2022. Eidos' Marvel games will make it out the door and probably fail to meet sales goals. In other words the square enix clock will keep ticking. The only constant is that FFXIV ARR will remain highly profitable and keep the company in the black.
I mean, this company has burned it's bridges , rebuilt them with better materials and then burned them again so I have little faith in them to deliver a big game on time with high quality ever again.
2001 - This was the year of "The Spirits Within" , a bigtime film investment largely spearheaded by Hironobu Sakaguchi coming off the glow offered thanks to a string of huge successes - FF7 and FF8. Square spent 3 times as much money building their movie studio in Hawaii as it cost to make any of their games and then they spent even more money making TSW which as we all know tanked hard at the box office. It didn't bankrupt them but all the profits they made off their entire PS1 library were gone. As well, FFX suffers a months long delay in Japan which also hampers it's US release where it is snuck out just a week prior to Christmas.
2002 - Sakaguchi takes the blame for TSW (and steps down from the company)and the movie studio is pretty much shuttered and sold off. So the company is without a proper pilot after many years of success and the downfall begins. With little cash on hand to expand Square merges with Enix.
2003-2004 - FFXI ends up becoming very profitable , FFX-2 is a success , Dragon Quest 8 makes it out the door and Kingdom hearts is proving a successful new brand. FFXII is announced and delayed. KH2 is announced and delayed.
2005 - PS3 alpha devkits show up and like many japanese developers , early tech tests push well past what the real hardware can actually do. Infamous FF7 demo shown at E3 inspires the FFXIII team to push forward with the new hardware , targeting what I can only guess is a 2007 release date. Dragon Quest 8 attempts to relaunch the brand internationally, it fails to meet sales expectations. FF12 is further delayed and it's lead director quits after suffering a nervous breakdown (probably from overwork). Kingdom hearts 2 finally launches about a year behind schedule.
2006-2009 - FFXIII engine is proving to be too ambitious for the actual PS3 hardware by a substantial factor , lack of proper direction and guidance from above is leading to a very slow pipeline of unusable assets being created for both it and the now well into development FFXIV. FFXII finally releases and a few months later also gets an international release... possibly 18 months behind schedule. Versus XIII is also revealed to the world. Despite all this , FFXIII does just barely creep out in Japan at the end of 2009. In an attempt to keep up with the demands of the gaming public , Square purchases Eidos in order to have an established western development arm attempt to keep them afloat in light of all the problems in their traditional asian business side.
2010 - FFXIII comes out in March , is revealed to be a shiny 30 hour long corridor with a half baked cast of marketable characters and a overly lore heavy backstory. It manages to sell well in spite of this. FFXIV launches to disastrous results just a few months later, adjusting the entire companies direction substantially going forward.
2011-2013 - Restructuring years at square enix , you didn't really hear about it but think back on just how many games came out during this period that were basically outsourced , direct sequels, remasters , etc. Nothing major outside of A realm reborn came out during this entire period. Versus XIII is shitcanned because the god awful engine powering FFXIII can't handle it at higher than 10 fps and the game design is a mess having spent so long in the oven that it's a bloated boring trilogy of Zippers and belts that probably wouldn't sell well (in light of the massively depreciated sales from XIII-2 and LR where they got beaten by a low budget 3DS FF Homage in sales). PS4 devkits arrive and it's decided that enough of the Versus XIII disaster is salvageable that they can release the game in 2014 on the console. Also infamously during this period, the biggest most expensive Eidos title - Tomb Raider , see's release and sells a whopping 4 million copies in a couple months but it's seen as a sales disaster because Square needed the game to prop up 3 years worth of under-preforming titles to keep shareholders happy. A Realm reborn also launches and it's really good ! in a continued effort to please their fanbase and give them what they actually want, Kingdom hearts 3 is also greenlit. The announcement to everyone coincides with the very early start of the games development. What we all saw at E3 for both Versus XIII/XV as well as KH3 were not real games at all. Just the same internal trailers required to get shareholder approval.
2014 - a few months of development in and it's proving that getting Luminous up and running on a PS4 will take at least 4 times as long as intended and the 2014 release date for FFXV becomes a pipe dream so the game is promptly delayed to 2015. Problems with the engine then cascade down to KH3 and it's development is switched the Unreal 4.0 with the hope being that it can be finished by 2016 with a more complete engine. Internally, Cyber Connect 2 has been commissioned to build a prototype/proof of concept for a FF7 remake project.
2015 - Episode Duscae is released after it becomes apparent that Luminous still won't be completed fast enough to even hit that entire year for release. As well, with all the money on the line , it's creation is deemed required to make sure the core game of FFXV is actually good. Luminous is finally finished later this year. So a 12 month crunch is initiated to complete FFXV for release In September of 2016. This is the only window of actual full development the game ever gets. In the meantime , KH3 is running massively behind schedule because switching the Unreal 4.0 wasn't the easy route to victory that was expected. FFXV's delay and A realm reborns continued success buy them some time though and a new release of 2017 was probably in the plans at that point. In order to spur more fans into upgrading to PS4's , FF7R is announced this year and even shown off. These are all lies though as CC2 was only ever brought in to build a prototype of the bombing run to demonstrate some concepts and determine how long it would take to build assets. Dragon quest XI is announced , intended for release on 3DS/PS4 in time for the series 30th anniversary.
2016 - FFXV finally makes its way out the door , half baked and buggy but otherwise a fun game with a terrible story. It meets sales expectations. Dragon Quest XI is delayed a few months. Work is completed on Cyber Connect 2s FF7R concept and by April , it's decided to end their working relationship and take the game internally but all 3 main teams are busy - FFXIV, KH3 and FFXV. An expansion is approved for 2017 to build FF7R properly in house.
2017 - KH3 by this point has undoubtedly received the same ultimatum from above that Tabata got in 2016 - "this game MUST release in 2018 no matter it's completion state". FFXV gets closer to being an actual finished game with each patch and update throughout the year. Final supplemental material is approved to be patched in through 2018 to make the game as finished as possible for work stops. Dragon Quest XI launches in Japan with a western release planned for 2018. From the start of April 1st through to march 31st 2018 a hiring frenzy begins to staff up a brand new team helmed by squares mobile division specifically to complete FF7R. Internally the first episode of this project is being aimed at a 2019 release to still launch on the current hardware generation. Based on everything I've just listed a delay to that goal in inevitable.
2018 to 2021 - Kingdom hearts 3 will finally launch , DQXI will come out world wide , FF7Repisode 1 will make it out the door and we'll see an announcement of FFXVI , it will aim for a 2020 release but probably get delayed to 2022. Eidos' Marvel games will make it out the door and probably fail to meet sales goals. In other words the square enix clock will keep ticking. The only constant is that FFXIV ARR will remain highly profitable and keep the company in the black.
I mean, this company has burned it's bridges , rebuilt them with better materials and then burned them again so I have little faith in them to deliver a big game on time with high quality ever again.