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Deku · Sep 14, 2011

No I think they're out of ideas. I agree with Ami.

One of the things that was missing at their conference was special branding or even a specific push for a line of games.

There's just this attitude of 'third parties, bring your PS2 properties over with shaders'
I recently revisted Age of Empires DS and was blown away at how much effort went into it and how, even today, it is still a totally amazing strategy game for a handheld that you can play for a short while or spend hours on in campaign mode.

We have shit for strategy games on the 3DS.

It's apalling.

Tiktaalik · Sep 14, 2011

hatchx said:
With Kid Icarus, Mario, Mario Kart, Luigi's Mansion, Mario Tennis, Fire Emblem, Resident Evil: Revelations, MGS3D (even though superior versions exist), Monster Hunter 3/4, Animal Crossing, Four Sword+ (for free), Kingdom Hearts 3D, FFtherythm, Tekken 3D, Ace Combat, Bravely Default, Smash Bros...

...I simply don't understand these sentiments. This is the best lineup on a Nintendo console ever, in my opinion.

A lot of my cynicism comes from the fact that these simply aren't titles that are unique and designed around the strengths of the platform. A lot of these titles are ports from existing console titles or updated versions of existing DS IPs. I'm not just complaining because there was a lack of brand new IPs. I recognize that even though I'm thoroughly tired of Mario Kart there's some little kid out there just experiencing it for the first time, but nonetheless I wanted to see something that would give me the feeling that the existence of the platform was actually justified and that the game couldn't be done on another platform. I did get a bit of that feeling with Mario Tennis and Super Mario 3D Land, both of which felt like they might take real advantage of the 3DS's 3D abilities, but most of what was shown did not not. You could have told me they were coming out for DS or Wii U and I wouldn't have known the difference.

Nintendo and Sony are facing strong competition from iOS and social games networks and there are real, valid questions about why traditional portable platforms should have what is now considered a premium price point. Hardcore gamers recognize that there's a great potential for unique, full featured portable games and this would certainly justify the price but unfortunately I don't think Nintendo and Sony have showed this fact well.

We continue to see a disturbing amount of games that are simply ports of existing console games and at other times we're seeing games are so lightweight that we know they could be just as easily developed for mobile or social networks. What I would like to see is examples of games that are truly 3DS and PSVita games.

Pachterballs · Sep 14, 2011

BurntPork said:
Lower prices lead to lower budgets and loss of jobs, though. There need to be tiers in pricing. A simple race to the bottom will destroy the industry.

that would be used game sales/gamestop.

I'm happy to pay retail for games. I'm still paying retail for iOS games. Devs get the cut. I paid full price on Sword and Sorcery/Battles Hearts. etc. But its great that there's sales all the time on the appstore.

cheap is good

flyinpiranha · Sep 14, 2011

SmokyDave said:
Civ controls like a dream. Even I won't stick up for CTW though. Loved it on DS, less so on PSP and I'm really not feeling the iPad version.

Mind you, I don't have a problem with onscreen controls.

I haven't seem any of the 'raging-while-flecks-of-spit-fly-out-of-my-mouth' posts coming from Android / iOS peeps, I know that much. Read the comments on that IGN Animal Crossing article if you want a good laugh though, there's some proper rage in there. I blame insecurity + buyers remorse.

There's your problem.

Buyers remorse is true, I wish I would have held onto my DSi XL longer for sure, it's the greatest single portable gaming device ever created.

dark10x · Sep 14, 2011

iOS and all that shit
Maybe "phones on your mobile" is some new thing for America, but I remember playing Snake on an old Nokia when I was a teenager. The graphics have changed, the depth hasn't. I just don't care about this stuff. Especially when half of it is rips of stuff I can play from any number of Flash portals for free. Without buttons its always going to be limited in what it can do, and the seemingly 2 year cut off point for old tech and models prevents me from ever really considering jumping on at any point.

I also cannot see it as a sustainable market with race to the bottom prices and devs desperately seeking attention as iOS has some insane indie cred assigned to it so theyre over-spending and under-earning because 'its just the in-thing'. A fine distraction, but to see bigwig companies pour money into buying up shitware dev houses presuming lightning is definitely going to strike twice is ghastly to watch.

Whoa whoa whoa, you're WAYYYY off base here. Now I prefer actual gaming handhelds to iOS gaming any day, but there are some seriously good games out there that offer infinitely more depth than Snake.

I mean, something like World of Goo is a celebrated indie game on the PC and plays great on iPhone (60 fps).

Espgaluda 2 is a well respected Cave arcade shooter from Japan. 60 fps on iPhone.

Oh, and what about favorites like Final Fantasy Tactics?

final-fantasy-tactics-the-war-of-the-lions-5_480x320.jpg

What about original puzzle games that have even shown up on Steam?

Don't forgot old classics such as Doom.

417210-the-ultimate-doom-iphone-screenshot-die-imp-die-s.jpg

You really liken those to SNAKE? Seriously?

The list goes on, man, there are a LOT of very good games on the system. Original titles, ports, remakes, etc. It's all there. Sure, there are thousands of shitty games to dig through, but by and large, the platform has a surprising amount of great content full of depth.

Tain · Sep 14, 2011

My girlfriend has an iPad2 and a 3DS, so I guess getting the Vita would cover everything.

Come Vita launch day, it's basically a matter of whether I want Shinobido 2 enough or not. And there's that annoying Cave STG that I don't know anything about. I really hope that will wind up as an arcade game as well, letting me skip the typical handheld issues. Logic tells me to wait for a revision with HDMI-out, but we'll see.

StuBurns · Sep 14, 2011

Durante said:
My Galaxy S2 is 8.9 mm thick and tiny in terms of area compared to Vita, yet it has a 1650 mAh battery. I believe it would have been technically possible to do at least 40% better in terms of battery in Vita, but it would also have been significantly more expensive. We are already getting a whole lot of technology for our money.

Sure, but what I mean is, I believe 98% of PSV users would take a fatter systems with better battery for the same price. It's already not going in anyone's pocket as it is.

Sipowicz · Sep 14, 2011

StuBurns said:
Those are the same franchises that won the generation before.

Everytime I read 'they have Mario' or whatever, I wonder how short minded people are. They had Mario when Sony destroyed them two times over.

I have no idea what dictates which platform is going to win, but it is not Mario, or Gran Turismo, or Halo.

They didn't though, that's the thing stu. these were new ip's created for the PS3, which should be commended (fuck knows when nintendo last created one). But the PS3 is an unpopular, unsuccessful console

when i look at the vita library i see multiplatform games that'll be better elsewhere (including a few ports of old games). i see farmed-out, copycat versions of first party PS3 games

the vita is a system for playing worse versions of console games and inferior knockoffs of PS3 games on the bus. i'd bet the market for that is incredibly small

Pachterballs said:
Jul 27 '11 $10.49 -> $2.99
at 3 bucks. Its a fiesta of joy.

why pay 3 bucks? you can punch yourself in the balls for free! hours of fun

shit at 3 bucks is still shit. quality at 30 bucks is still quality. i paid 60p for dead space and nba jam on the iphone and they are some of the shittest purchases i have ever made.

Pachterballs · Sep 14, 2011

btw the best version of Plant vs Zombies.

walking fiend · Sep 14, 2011

Similarly -- but to a lesser extreme -- battery technology is simply really hard to work with. Not because we don't want it, not because there is no money in it, but because it's really hard. Not impossible (like faster than light travel), but hard enough that it's taking time, and moving very slowly. There simply is no solution to this problem, and throwing ever more money at it has significantly decreasing returns.

I am not so sure really, I believe it hasn't been developing much fast because there hasn't been enough investment in it, yet. When I was trying to chose a field for my graduate studies last year (mech engineer here), I was just surprised by how much research is being done into energy storage technologies, both batteries and fuel cells, even though the former is just most research now with car manufacturers mostly having stopped developing them. And the papers aren't that old, which means they haven't been investing in it much until recently.

But since this field is so important, especially as investment in wind and solar sustainable energy which need storage has been multiplied in pas few years, and also focus on emission reduction and electric vehicles, I believe we may see advancements more rapidly. Moreover, fuel cells were invested much until recently, as they expected it to be the next big thing, but not only it didn't happen, but it acted as a break on development of batteries as well.

The list goes on, man, there are a LOT of very good games on the system. Original titles, ports, remakes, etc. It's all there. Sure, there are thousands of shitty games to dig through, but by and large, the platform has a surprising amount of great content full of depth.

1. It doesn't change the fact that they control like shit (playing even World of Goo, and even on Wii is much a more robust experience as the resistance of your finger doesn't get in your way and your fast reactions)
2. They won't make money there. Super Scirbblenaut was the 6th best selling DS title for the 12 month period ending in August just after MK DS, how much should have it sold on iOS to make this much money?

Divvy · Sep 14, 2011

I find iOS and android games to be akin to a bag of chips, fun to snack on, but you still need a full meal later on. It's also too bad that touch screen only means a lot of games control like dogshit still.

Opiate · Sep 14, 2011

Tiktaalik said:
A lot of my cynicism comes from the fact that these simply aren't titles that are unique and designed around the strengths of the platform. A lot of these titles are ports from existing console titles or updated versions of existing DS IPs. I'm not just complaining because there was a lack of brand new IPs. I recognize that even though I'm thoroughly tired of Mario Kart there's some little kid out there just experiencing it for the first time, but nonetheless I wanted to see something that would give me the feeling that the existence of the platform was actually justified and that the game couldn't be done on another platform. I did get a bit of that feeling with Mario Tennis and Super Mario 3D Land, both of which felt like they might take real advantage of the 3DS's 3D abilities, but most of what was shown did not not. You could have told me they were coming out for DS or Wii U and I wouldn't have known the difference.

Nintendo and Sony are facing strong competition from iOS and social games networks and there are real, valid questions about why traditional portable platforms should have what is now considered a premium price point. Hardcore gamers recognize that there's a great potential for unique, full featured portable games and this would certainly justify the price but unfortunately I don't think Nintendo and Sony have showed this fact well.

We continue to see a disturbing amount of games that are simply ports of existing console games and at other times we're seeing games are so lightweight that we know they could be just as easily developed for mobile or social networks. What I would like to see is examples of games that are truly 3DS and PSVita games.

Very strongly agreed. This strikes me as the key problem for both platforms.

Ulairi · Sep 14, 2011

AranhaHunter said:
I will be able to play GTA CW, Dead Space, Need for Speed, Civilization, etc etc etc and whatever new goodies there are on the Appstore and they'll all be cheaper than DQIX a year after release.

GTA CW is terrible on the iPhone, I wouldn't brag about that. Need for Speed is a shallow shitty experience, and Civilization Revolution isn't that hot, I play real Civ on my PC.

Tain · Sep 14, 2011

Oh, and as far as the console warz shit goes, Vita is in the lead for me.

I still haven't found an original iOS game that I can see myself playing for a while. That I feel I actually need. Looking at dark10x's post, for example, I see ports of great games, but since portability does absolutely nothing for me, the iOS original games are what I care about, and they aren't very appealing.

3DS is completely up in the air. Mario could be great (New Super Mario Bros Wii), but it could also be worthless to me (Galaxy). The N64 ports aren't necessities. Fire Emblem is a big deal, I think, but I still have a million Fire Emblem games to play.

There's no doubt that Vita and 3DS will both get some great games, but with an original Cave shooter and Shinobido 2, Vita's currently in the lead. And yet I still want that Cave shooter somewhere with a big screen and sanwa buttons!

Acosta · Sep 14, 2011

As a consumer, I only care for my personal needs, so I don't give a crap about sales potential or who the winner is.

Vita is going to be day one.

3DS (revision) is going to be day one.

iOS is ok for certain games, but it doesn't cover my handheld needs. Pads or bust.

If that means I fall in some kind of handheld gaming ghetto, I don't care. My first console was a Game Gear and I was immensely happy with it.

ntropy · Sep 14, 2011

Pachterballs said:
btw the best version of Plant vs Zombies.

http://wp.appadvice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/IMG_0097.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
that player is a nub.

Tiktaalik · Sep 14, 2011

While watching videos this TGS, ask yourself: Could this also be effectively done as a free to play social game or as a cheap or free to play iOS game?

If Nintendo and Sony were nailing their handheld offerings we'd never be answering "yes" to that question, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

orioto · Sep 14, 2011

StuBurns said:
Sure, but what I mean is, I believe 98% of PSV users would take a fatter systems with better battery for the same price. It's already not going in anyone's pocket as it is.

And that's a problem for the vita, maybe the biggest. It's not in your pocket, but it's not a ps3, neither a tablet, neither a smartphone... What is it and who needs it ? I know i need it cause i'm a geek, but i'm not sure what it is exactly and what place it has in my life!

Trojita · Sep 14, 2011

InsertNameHere said:
I'm a little confused. Before TGS I thought the main opinion was "woo Vita is doing everything right and has plenty of games and a good price point, etc."

Then suddenly not many new games get announced for Vita and apparently a handful of new games get announced for 3DS along with footage of previously announced games. Then the internet goes "Vita is too expensive, has no games! 3DS is doing everything right now."

Is this how fickle the internet can be? I'm not trying to be a fanboy about the situation, even though it looks like I'm favoring the Vita in my post, I'm just going off of what I've seen. To be completely transparent though I was planning on probably getting a Vita sometime and only getting a 3DS if it comes out with a must-play game for me.

Welcome to the internet.

marc^o^ · Sep 14, 2011

3DS japanese lineup for the next 6 months is the best one ever seen on a handheld.
Few new franchises but still, outstanding.

Vita's lineup in the west is fantastic, irresistible, except for the price. I expect Apple to launch iPad 3 in the same timeframe as Vita's launch in Europe, and it will get my money.

I also need to save for iPhone 5, and though I buy LOTS of games on iOS, it's mostly because I love to discover new concepts. It doesn't go beyond this quick fix of curiosity. Nothing on iOS can measure to PES, Zelda and upcoming 3DS/Vita games. Completely complementary. Sony and Nintendo will lose soccer moms, but not gamers. IMO games like Mario Kart or CoD will prove casuals can still buy a dedicated gaming device.

Negativity surrounding 3DS post launch was well deserved, but Nintendo completely got it back on track as far as I'm concerned. Nintendo and japanese 3rd parties are supporting it big time. Western studios, not so much. But I'm more of a japanese gaming lover.

SmokyDave · Sep 14, 2011

Ulairi said:
GTA CW is terrible on the iPhone, I wouldn't brag about that. Need for Speed is a shallow shitty experience, and Civilization Revolution isn't that hot, I play real Civ on my PC.

Racing games on all handhelds suck because they don't have decent triggers or analogue sticks. No vibration for feedback either. The degree of suckage is much higher on a touchscreen though, I'll give you that.

I love that you deflected the obvious flaw in your depth and control arguments by bringing in the PC version of Civ though, that's hilarious.

casabolg · Sep 14, 2011

A bad conference hurt the image of Vita for a bit but new games were announced via Famitsu so it's all good.

monome · Sep 14, 2011

Durante said:
There are a few genres that simply don't work with touchscreen-only controls, and there are a whole lot of others that do work but significantly worse than with buttons. Some are unaffected or even work better. But it's not a general gaming solution.

My Galaxy S2 is 8.9 mm thick and tiny in terms of area compared to Vita, yet it has a 1650 mAh battery. I believe it would have been technically possible to do at least 40% better in terms of battery in Vita, but it would also have been significantly more expensive. We are already getting a whole lot of technology for our money.

don't we love bitching here on GAF?
A larger battery would come in handy for multiplayer games as i tend to play them for longer sessions than my single player sessions.

Multiplayer uncharted portable, hummmm....

StuBurns · Sep 14, 2011

Sipowicz said:
They didn't though, that's the thing stu. these were new ip's created for the PS3, which should be commended (fuck knows when nintendo last created one). But the PS3 is an unpopular, unsuccessful console

This is true, and my fault because my post wasn't clear. All the games that made Sony win for two generations are on the PS3. They haven't caused them to win this time. In fact, Nintendo has none of them, and they won. No MGS, no meaningful FF, no Gran Turismo, no GTA, etc.

I don't think you can look at a system's library to determine it's success because the Wii is the perfect example of having nothing that was an indicator of success beyond 2D Mario, and it won, by a lot. There are many factors in it's victory, but essentially when I look at all the platform winners, the one thing they have in common is they had the best marketing. And as shallow a concept as that is, I do think it's true. If PSV was to be marketed masterfully, and Nintendo fucked up, I think it could win, regardless of it's library.

I'm sure Wii fans will argue that I'm wrong and the Wii library is better than PS360, but it's not. The marketing however, is. Sony fucked up the day they decided a bluray drive was going in their system. That was all it took to delay the console for months, rocket the price, and it did practically nothing for the back of the box marketing. I don't think the PS3 library is at fault for the PS3's failure.

Sipowicz said:
when i look at the vita library i see multiplatform games that'll be better elsewhere (including a few ports of old games). i see farmed-out, copycat versions of first party PS3 games

I see that too, I see a couple of rare gems in there, Sound Shapes, Gravity Rush, etc. And there will be more, Media Molecule's next game is rumoured to be on PSV, I'm sure that will be of exceptional quality. But ultimately I see this problem on both handhelds. I'm playing thru OoT 3D right now, and it's awesome, and it would be massively more awesome on PS360. I'd rather Mario 3D Land be on Wii, along with Bravely Default, and Resident Evil Revelations. All these games are every bit as 'consoly' as the PSV line up to me.

Sipowicz said:
the vita is a system for playing worse versions of console games and inferior knockoffs of PS3 games on the bus. i'd bet the market for that is incredibly small

I agree the market for what you're describing would be small. But I don't agree with the premise, and I think the 3DS is in exactly the same situation. As was the PSP, and it sold 70 million units.

Pie and Beans · Sep 14, 2011

Tiktaalik said:
While watching videos this TGS, ask yourself: Could this also be effectively done as a free to play social game or as a cheap or free to play iOS game?

If Nintendo and Sony were nailing their handheld offerings we'd never be answering "yes" to that question, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

W..what. So you think games like Mario 3d Land, RE:Revelations, Uncharted, Wipeout, Ultimate MvsC3 and the like can all just slot into social games or cheap free to play iOS games? You've gone mad! Mad!!!

Riposte · Sep 14, 2011

How well do Cave's games do on iOs, anyway? The whole genre is pretty misunderstood by critics and no one really talks about them when the ipad comes up(they rather talk about some dumb gimmicky/novelty game). I also have my suspicions that the overall market wants them less than even the "core" market does(maybe creditfeeding through a game for 5 dollars is worth it though).

kinggroin · Sep 14, 2011

dark10x said:
Name some, then, I'm curious.

I can't really name any games that were ported to Android that are 60 fps on iPhone. All of the games that I'm thinking of are only available on iOS.

Stuff like the Cave games (Espgaluda, DoDonPachi, etc), Edge EX, Groove Coaster, Space Invaders Infinity Gene, Assault Squadron, Hook Worlds, World of Goo, Pizza Boy, Canabalt, Truckers Delight, Monster Dash, Bit.Trip.Beat, Bumpy Road, MOS Speedrun, Grim Joggers, Continuity 2, Gesundheit, Jetpack Joyride, etc. I don't think any of those games are available on Android and every one of them runs at 60 fps.

Perhaps the smoothest Android game I've tried yet is Cordy, but even that jumps up and down in framerate even on the fastest Android tablets available.

So, yeah, if you can name a bunch of Android games running at a solid 60 fps, I'd love to hear them.

Ugh...don't know why I'm fucking doing this to myself but...

Angry birds series
Sprinkle
Battleheart
Pinball HD
Canabalt
Monster ate my homework
Reckless racing
Fruit Ninja
Jetcar Stunt Racing
cut the rope
Age of zombies
Tackle HD
A shitload of gameloft games
Snes emulation
Neogaf website
Dialer

Really man, is it that hard to believe that android has a shit ton of games that RUN well? Again, this is a stupid thing to even argue here. The problem isn't performance, its having the right device to GET that performance.

Obviously im being a dick with the last few things, but with an atrix or 3.1 zoom, those games and a bajillion more run flawlessly. Not so much with, say, an Evo.

MisterHero · Sep 14, 2011

Tiktaalik said:
While watching videos this TGS, ask yourself: Could this also be effectively done as a free to play social game or as a cheap or free to play iOS game?

If Nintendo and Sony were nailing their handheld offerings we'd never be answering "yes" to that question, but unfortunately that hasn't been the case.

No, we have a bit of that future experience already.

Nintendo announces NSMBWii.

People complain that it should be a cheap download title because it's a simple 2D platformer.

Sonic 4 Episode 1.

People are still debating more about the delivery method and not the quality of the game itself (which is out of fans' hands almost entirely).

Back to Sonic 4, it seems to me like episodic gaming still hasn't quite taken off.

Knux-Future · Sep 14, 2011

Why can't we just have both?

3DS for the mario and pokemon

Vita for the "core" stuff (lol ports right now but still)

IOS for the fun pick up and play stuff.

They can all can coexist since they each give up different experiences.

If you can't afford them all then just pick which one(s) fit you the best.

I never got the it's one or none mindset.

LProtag · Sep 14, 2011

Also I missed the Mario Tennis 3DS stuff, is it going to be an RPG like the other handheld versions or just the standard game like the console games?

Mr.Squirrel · Sep 14, 2011

Mario 3D Land is all I needed to see. I'll be getting a 3DS eventually (maybe for xmas).

Mario 3D Land
Mario Kart
Paper Mario
Kid Icarus
Fire Emblem
Monster Hunter 4
Zelda 4 Swords
Kingdom Hearts 3D

Nintendo has me very excite!

LiquidMetal14 · Sep 14, 2011

I will take the winners table with all. I would rank them Vita-3DS----------Smartphones for me as far as legit gaming platforms though.

The Vita and app functions really excite me though.

Pachterballs · Sep 14, 2011

any of you iOS haters are free to wander into the IOS gaming thread. Because its pretty much mostly positive feelings in there.

FYI.

and I want a vita.

and I might consider a 3DSrevise - soooo glad walmart didn't have stock when I was in LA. so glad.

MrNyarlathotep · Sep 14, 2011

Deku said:
We have shit for strategy games on the 3DS.

It's apalling.

GHOST RECON as developed by JULIAN GOLLOP

If you're going to pick a genre not represented on the 3DS with any quality titles, it sure as shit isnt strategy.

sajj316 · Sep 14, 2011

I can't play my Sony franchises on a 3DS or iOS. I can't play my Nintendo franchises on Vita or iOS. There is a good chance that these iOS games will be released on Vita as part of the mini(s) collection and potentially on 3DS as 3DSware at competitive prices.

StuBurns · Sep 14, 2011

sajj316 said:
There is a good chance that these iOS games will be released on Vita as part of the mini(s) collection and potentially on 3DS as 3DSware at competitive prices.

No there isn't.

weeskwee · Sep 14, 2011

AranhaHunter said:
This TGS convinced me to get an iOS or android device and I'm not even trying to be funny.

this has got to be a joke. seriously. i have an android phone. gaming SUCKS on it. big time. iOS is great... for puzzle and physics games like Angry Birds. i have an iPhone for work and download games on it every day. shelf life of each game... 2 days tops. amount of them being simple puzzle games - 98%. enjoy that cr@p.

walking fiend · Sep 14, 2011

A lot of my cynicism comes from the fact that these simply aren't titles that are unique and designed around the strengths of the platform.

Most games introduced needs buttons and will take up bucketloads of storage space on Smartphones if DD. They have high production values as well, and are not suitable for $1 app market.

I wanted to see something that would give me the feeling that the existence of the platform was actually justified and that the game couldn't be done on another platform

How many games have been put into smartphones that weren't possible on DS? How many that weren't possible on the first iteration of iPhone? It is not about not being possible on other platforms.

I did get a bit of that feeling with Mario Tennis and Super Mario 3D Land, both of which felt like they might take real advantage of the 3DS's 3D abilities, but most of what was shown did not not. You could have told me they were coming out for DS or Wii U and I wouldn't have known the difference.

Imagine 3D as Color TVs replacing B&W ones, that way it will make much more sense why it will become standard even if it doesn't introduce much games unplayable otherwise; or analog stick instead of directional buttons why it matters even if it makes it easier.

We continue to see a disturbing amount of games that are simply ports of existing console games and at other times we're seeing games are so lightweight that we know they could be just as easily developed for mobile or social networks. What I would like to see is examples of games that are truly 3DS and PSVita games.

1. Games being playable on consoles doesn't mean people won't want to play similar games on the go
3. You are making too much simplification. Pokemon and Monster Hunter, are the two most popular games on DS and PSP. Both are only possible on a portable platform and are complex games not suitable as a mobile or social network game. As another example:

Specifically, Sakurai feels that a portable system makes the game a more "individual" experience in that, compared to a console, it's easier to make players attached to the data that they've built up and collected. The fact that you're carrying the hardware with you makes for a more personal experience.

The difficulty here is that the current Smash Bros. games haven't relied on rewards, collecting money or raising your character's level. There's no element of gaining experience to make your character stronger, Iwata noted.

Adding the notion of experience would pose a dilmena, explained Sakurai, as there are some players who would get into such a game, while others would not like it. Iwata added that placing a focus on experience would also make the game lose its instant play quality.

What Sakurai hopes to do is have the 3DS version of Smash Bros. allow players to build up their character through battle and rewards, then take their custom character to the Wii U version to face off against everyone. He feels it could be nice if they can make the "personal" portable space and the stadium-like "public" console space mesh together.

Iwata summed it the basic idea nicely: players would spend time on the 3DS version, building up their character and collecting stuff, then show off their skills on the Wii U version.

And good luck playing SB using touch.

Deku · Sep 14, 2011

MrNyarlathotep said:
GHOST RECON as developed by JULIAN GOLLOP

If you're going to pick a genre not represented on the 3DS with any quality titles, it sure as shit isnt strategy.

I have Ghost Recon and enjoy it. But that's pretty much it for now with nothing on the horizon.

1-D_FTW · Sep 14, 2011

Deku said:
No I think they're out of ideas. I agree with Ami.

One of the things that was missing at their conference was special branding or even a specific push for a line of games.

There's just this attitude of 'third parties, bring your PS2 properties over with shaders'
I recently revisted Age of Empires DS and was blown away at how much effort went into it and how, even today, it is still a totally amazing strategy game for a handheld that you can play for a short while or spend hours on in campaign mode.

We have shit for strategy games on the 3DS.

It's apalling.

I disagree. I think it's much more cynical than that. They've fine tuned the formulas on the mega-sellers and they continuously recreate them. If they were creating and failing at titles outside of this, it could be a valid criticism. You could say they've lost it and are out of ideas.

You can predict which titles are going to hit new platforms solely on sales figures. And they're not going to deviate much from the formula for a reason: they've distilled what sells to the masses.

Is this an inherently bad thing? No. They're in business to make money. There are new kids born every year who haven't seen the same thing remade 3 different times. It's a valid strategy. Where many old-time Nintendo fans (like myself) feel scorned is that they've completely abandoned the middle tier games that often spawned greatness. The mad genius of Nintendo was often best in these games. And it's been shut down for business.

sajj316 · Sep 14, 2011

StuBurns said:
No there isn't.

I'm not talking about the iOS shovel-ware. Specifically games like the next iteration of Angry Birds (if they can milk it further). Titles like World of Goo, PvZ, Fruit Ninja, etc.

Piggus · Sep 14, 2011

I have an iPhone, iPad 2, and 3DS.

The iOS stuff is really casual most of the time. The only "deep" experience I've had on it so far is Sword and Sworcery (buy it buy it buy it.)

I've hardly touched the 3DS. I have Ridge Racer, Zelda, Ghost Recon and SSFIV. It's a really cool device but wasn't worth the original $250 imo. At the new price it might be worth it when more games are out. I'm extremely disappointed in the hardware other than the 3D screen. Despite all that I decided to stick with it since Super Mario 3D Land looks great as does Mario Kart.

The Vita looks incredible to me. Haven't been this excited for a hardware launch in a LONG time. Tons of great features, DUAL FUCKING ANALOG STICKS, and games that look incredible. I couldn't believe my eyes when I saw Uncharted and LBP. THAT is the kind of experience I want on a handheld. Something that makes my jaw hit the floor and appreciate how far technology has come.

StuBurns · Sep 14, 2011

sajj316 said:
I'm not talking about the iOS shovel-ware. Specifically games like the next iteration of Angry Birds (if they can milk it further). Titles like World of Goo, PvZ, Fruit Ninja, etc.

Oh, then yeah.

My favourite iOS game still isn't on DS or PSP, which sucks.

MrNyarlathotep · Sep 14, 2011

Deku said:
I have Ghost Recon and enjoy it. But that's pretty much it for now with nothing on the horizon.

I thought a new Fire Emblem was just announced?

yurinka · Sep 14, 2011

It's pretty clear that smartphones are stealing the small, casual games market (specially shovelware) to DS / 3DS.

Android continues growing really fast, and already outsells clearly iOS in US, Apple's main market. In 2 years mobile phones will be an Android monopoly. But Android still needs a proper business model and shop, and Sony is supposed to bring it with PS Suite.

Thanks to PS Suite and Minis, Vita will have the main mobile phone games that still don't have.

3DS has the uniqueness of the 3D, that this year will be available in mobile phones.

Both Vita and 3DS have proper hardcore games, great classic gaming IPs, and console like games (more tied to HD gen games in Vita), last gen updated ports (PS2/N64) and BC (PS1/PSP vs DS/Virtual console). Games that never will be available (at least properly) in smartphones.

Vita and 3DS (now thanks to the add on) have proper controls, and the option to market medium and big budget games at decent prices for the devs/publishers (wouldn't be profitable at $0.99).

Digital market is growing fast (go and check specially phone gaming or social gaming numbers) and slowly eating the retail. Both Vita and smartphones have all their games available digitally, including tons of sub $5 games.

This is why I think Vita is the better option, because it focus everything. The only question is social gaming, that will arrive soon to smartphones (so maybe to PS Suite too, and its Facebook integration and it Flash version supported will help to run them without porting).

Deku · Sep 14, 2011

MrNyarlathotep said:
I thought a new Fire Emblem was just announced?

You're right, I forgot about FE

What I really wanted was Advance Wars, and support from 2nd tier devs in the west that bring interesting strategy concepts to the table.

Maybe UBI-san will do another Anno title.

Ulairi · Sep 14, 2011

SmokyDave said:
Racing games on all handhelds suck because they don't have decent triggers or analogue sticks. No vibration for feedback either. The degree of suckage is much higher on a touchscreen though, I'll give you that.

I love that you deflected the obvious flaw in your depth and control arguments by bringing in the PC version of Civ though, that's hilarious.

I picked up Civ Rev for the iPhone because I was excited by it and it's terrible. There hasn't been a good Civilization type game for the iPhone, and I'd gothat far for the DS and PSP as well.

Deku · Sep 14, 2011

Ulairi said:
I picked up Civ Rev for the iPhone because I was excited by it and it's terrible. There hasn't been a good Civilization type game for the iPhone, and I'd gothat far for the DS and PSP as well.

Civ Rev is actually the same game as the DS/X360/PS3 games, the HDtwins just go a polish with better graphics and some DLC, but essentially they play the same.

Game is fairly shallow and is essentially a war-game. AI is largely incompetent and relies on cheating on all difficulty levels to get the most basic things done. The worse part is the world is usually only half settled by the end game.

Still , I have it for my DS and sort of enjoyed it.

Gameloft has the Civ license apparently and the Civ5 Mobile game came out recently, but for Java platforms only. So no Andriod or iOS.

I haven't heard much about it.

sajj316 · Sep 14, 2011

StuBurns said:
Oh, then yeah.

My favourite iOS game still isn't on DS or PSP, which sucks.

What game is your fav?

dark10x · Sep 14, 2011

kinggroin said:
Ugh...don't know why I'm fucking doing this to myself but...

Angry birds series
Sprinkle
Battleheart
Pinball HD
Canabalt
Monster ate my homework
Reckless racing
Fruit Ninja
Jetcar Stunt Racing
cut the rope
Age of zombies
Tackle HD
A shitload of gameloft games
Snes emulation
Neogaf website
Dialer

Really man, is it that hard to believe that android has a shit ton of games that RUN well? Again, this is a stupid thing to even argue here. The problem isn't performance, its having the right device to GET that performance.

Obviously im being a dick with the last few things, but with an atrix or 3.1 zoom, those games and a bajillion more run flawlessly. Not so much with, say, an Evo.

There's a difference between running well and running at a locked 60 fps. Only some of those games actually support 60 fps and they are fairly simple.

You joke about those OS functions, but even on things like a Galaxy Tab 10.1, the UI isn't perfectly smooth.

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