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Gaf, In your opinion is The Last Crusade better than Raiders of the Lost Ark?
- Thread starter fluffydelusions
- Start date
brianmcdoogle
Member
Fuck no. If someone wants to say they enjoy the Saturday morning romp featuring a character by the name of "Indiana Jones" as the better movie, then go ahead and say The Last Crusade is the best "Indiana Jones" movie. But, the best raiders movie, the best is Raiders. And it's not even close.
There are two categories with Indiana Jones. There is "what is the best movie with Indiana Jones" and "What is the best Raiders movie", and both of those belong to, of course, Raiders. Then, there's "what is the other enjoyable Indiana Jones movie" and that's Last Crusade.
What do you want? An actual good movie or a jokey movie featuring a supposed "character" you like?
There are two categories with Indiana Jones. There is "what is the best movie with Indiana Jones" and "What is the best Raiders movie", and both of those belong to, of course, Raiders. Then, there's "what is the other enjoyable Indiana Jones movie" and that's Last Crusade.
What do you want? An actual good movie or a jokey movie featuring a supposed "character" you like?
Caddywompus
Member
Yes, I've always liked it more.
Raiders has more iconic scenes like the face melting and blowing away the swordsman but Crusade has more memorable scenes, the Nazi Zeppelin scene ending with a autograph from Hitler, the fight on the tank treads, traps like the penitent man, choosing poorly, carpenter's grail, all on top of a great father son dynamic between Ford and Connery.
Raiders has more iconic scenes like the face melting and blowing away the swordsman but Crusade has more memorable scenes, the Nazi Zeppelin scene ending with a autograph from Hitler, the fight on the tank treads, traps like the penitent man, choosing poorly, carpenter's grail, all on top of a great father son dynamic between Ford and Connery.
Raiders has a rawness that, for whatever reason, Lucas and Spielberg never returned to with Indy. i have fond memories of Temple and Crusade but watch them back to back with Raiders, they don't even compare in the slightest
Crusade had the makings of a more "epic" Raiders but the execution was just too off
Crusade had the makings of a more "epic" Raiders but the execution was just too off
This opinion is so wrong that my first thought was that you were talking about the Doom movie with the Rock and Karl Urban because, while still not correct, that would have been less wrong than the statement you were actually making so my brain parsed it as that instead.
Like many good sequels, Crusade is probably more entertaining, and a more rounded film than Raiders, but only because it gets to shortcut a bunch of the character development by using the established character we already know and riffing off that.
Raiders is the better stand-alone film.
On a serious note... Has anyone watched Raiders of the Lost Ark recently? Last week I showed it to some guys that had never seen it before on an 84" screen with surround sound.
One of them fell asleep about halfway. The other one just kept saying, "Oh, I know that scene!" over and over again.
I guess no one can take away the fact Raiders of the Lost Ark is a landmark movie that inspired countless others as well as video games. I mean, the fact that one of them acknowledged all the scenes from the movie speaks volumes about its cinematic and cultural legacy.
But nostalgia aside, has it held up? I think that's debatable, and perhaps The Last Crusade holds up better these days simply by virtue of being a more recent movie.
Because you have one friend who was sleepy/has bad taste?
Waldo Lydecker
Member
Yes. I watched them both recently and enjoyed Crusade much, much more. More humour, more variations of locations, better music. Also nothing beats Sean Connery, Venice and a Nazi castle.
Neff
Member
Good lord no.
- Terrible villain
- Weak MacGuffin (doesn't really do much)
- Nonsensical plot (Hitler wants to procure the Grail but doesn't actually want to use or keep it)
- Character betrayal (Sallah and Brody are reduced to comic relief idiots)
- Indy's entire persona is established in ten minutes worth of flashback
There's some good bits for sure, the cast is great and Spielberg is always on form, but The Last Crusade is the weakest of the Indiana Jones movies by far.
Agreed.
- Terrible villain
- Weak MacGuffin (doesn't really do much)
- Nonsensical plot (Hitler wants to procure the Grail but doesn't actually want to use or keep it)
- Character betrayal (Sallah and Brody are reduced to comic relief idiots)
- Indy's entire persona is established in ten minutes worth of flashback
There's some good bits for sure, the cast is great and Spielberg is always on form, but The Last Crusade is the weakest of the Indiana Jones movies by far.
Agreed.
That fight on the tank tho.
-shadow-
Member
I enjoy it more, but it's undoubtedly the lesser movie. There's a reason why I haven't re-watched Raiders again since I've seen it on the big screen a couple of years ago, while I have seen Crusade multiple times at home since. I just don't want to watch that film in a setting that's less than absolutely fucking perfect!
dickroach
Member
Bjoern the Smexy
Member
Yes, but not by much.
It helped that I actually played the point & click game of Last Crusade before I ever watched Raiders of the Lost Ark.
It helped that I actually played the point & click game of Last Crusade before I ever watched Raiders of the Lost Ark.
Temple of Doom is complete trash tho.
Airola
Member
DiipuSurotu
Banned
Last Crusade is the "Terminator 2 3D: Battle Across Time" of the Indiana Jones franchise -- it's great like its two predecessors, but it's pretty much a comedy, a parody, a theme park ride.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
crimsondynamics
Member
No, that's not the point.
The point is, I recall the movie as being all sorts of amazing; as I said, it's a landmark movie. However, like many things we have appreciated in the past, nostalgia plays a part in our perception.
Honestly, when I saw it last week, while I recognize the movie for what it is, it doesn't hold up as well nowadays as it did when I first saw it. It's like GoldenEye for the N64: When it came out it blew my mind, but not so much anymore.
As an aside, when was the last time you saw the movie, and has your perception of it changed from the first time you saw it?
biggersmaller
Banned
I just watched all three of these with my 6 year old. To me, yes. Overall better action, humor*, opening scene, overall plot - and the Connery/Ford chemistry is beyond fantastic.
Although Raiders has the best and most iconic joke.
Although Raiders has the best and most iconic joke.
George Oscar Bluth II
Banned
Hell no.
BassForever
Member
This is the correct answer
A Serious Man
Member
No, not even close.
The opening sequence where every quirk Indy has is explained in 10 minutes is the worst scene in the entire franchise.
The opening sequence where every quirk Indy has is explained in 10 minutes is the worst scene in the entire franchise.
Discotheque
Banned
that's some mighty exaggeration, but yeah apart from the awesome casting of River Phoenix I'm not a big fan of that scene.
its easily the worst of the trilogy for me, even if I enjoy a lot about it.
There's a fourth movie with a lot of garbage if you haven't seen it. It's called "Kingdom of the Crystal Skull". IMO it's really not good.
It's more fun than Raiders and it's a damn good movie while being funny, but Raiders had that sense of mystery and danger that might give it the edge objectvely.
Personally I prefer Crusade though - I love the European setting, it was complemented by a superb adventure game and I went to a midnight launch with my brother in our small German town which normally doesn't have such viewings. So it comes with a lot of fun personal memories I cherish in addition to being a great movie.
Personally I prefer Crusade though - I love the European setting, it was complemented by a superb adventure game and I went to a midnight launch with my brother in our small German town which normally doesn't have such viewings. So it comes with a lot of fun personal memories I cherish in addition to being a great movie.
DiipuSurotu
Banned
I didn't like that Sean Connery was the competent guy and Indy was basically the sidekick in his own movie. Crystal Skull is obviously the worst of the tetralogy but even it made sure that Indy was the main character rather than making Shia the hero.
Fancy Clown
Member
Hell no. It's not better than Doom either. It's still pretty great though, it's got a solid emotional core and it's the zippiest of the Jones movies as bounces from one locatation and set piece to the next.
But I much prefer the lurid and stylized pulp perfection and characterization of the prior films.
But I much prefer the lurid and stylized pulp perfection and characterization of the prior films.
Yes and it's also the only consistently good movie in the series that kept me interested the whole way through. I've only seen Raiders once though and I should probably watch it again, but I found it kind of slow to start.
I actually agree with this order.
I actually agree with this order.
old manatee
Banned
Raiders is my favorite because it's the only one with a decent romantic subplot, which is nearly non-negotiable for me when it comes to this kind of movie.