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Writing-GAF: Writing, Publishing, Selling |OT|

UCBooties

Member
Do you ever feel like you need help with a plot point in your book, but don't want to ask for help because it might lead to issues later? Like someone wanting money for their idea that helped you. I need some help with something I think is shit. Normally, I would just tough it out until I could figure something out, but I've already been working on this one book for too long.

I know you've moved on to the specifics but I wanted to chime in on this specific question.

I've never had a problem asking friends, fellow writers, family, or chatty strangers to weigh in on something I'm not happy with as long the discussion is broad enough. I also have a circle of fairly involved beta readers who are usually pretty happy to suggest changes including alternate wording and specific plot points that may or may not be used in the editing process. Everything is tracked through comment logging and there's really no room for anyone to claim credit for anything.

HOWEVER, I also run Roleplaying games in my meta-setting and one thing that is made abundantly clear to every player is that while their activities my intersect with larger plot lines, none of their characters will EVER appear in any published work. It's just not worth the headache of someone potentially trying to claim credit for creation of a character.
 

zulux21

Member
you know... at some point I am either making excuses or a higher being hates me.

I had two planned periods to write for a significant amount of time in the last few weeks.

the first one I got ill and spent a good chunk of the day throwing up and thus decided it was better to sleep than write.

the other one I hurt my back at work, and decided it was likely better to rest my back by laying down on the couch rather then hunched over on my computer writing >.<: my back still isn't fully healed (it was just last saturday) and I do a lot of lifting at work :/


so in less depressing thoughts....

I am watching an anime series call Hyouka.
in it they make a mystery story and cite Knox's 10 commandments 9 propositions and 20 rules
I found the 10 commandments
The criminal must be someone mentioned in the early part of the story, but must not be anyone whose thoughts the reader has been allowed to follow.
All supernatural or preternatural agencies are ruled out as a matter of course.
Not more than one secret room or passage is allowable.
No hitherto undiscovered poisons may be used, nor any appliance which will need a long scientific explanation at the end.
No Chinaman must figure in the story.
No accident must ever help the detective, nor must he ever have an unaccountable intuition which proves to be right.
The detective must not himself commit the crime.
The detective must not light on any clues which are not instantly produced for the inspection of the reader.
The stupid friend of the detective, the Watson, must not conceal any thoughts which pass through his mind; his intelligence must be slightly, but very slightly, below that of the average reader.
Twin brothers, and doubles generally, must not appear unless we have been duly prepared for them.
https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/tips-masters/ronald-knox-10-commandments-of-detective-fiction
though I also understand that they are outdated by today's standards...

what are the other things?

I am sure there are other tools better used for writing mystery, especially since the mystery I am planning on doing is fully supernatural, but I am kind of curious lol.
 

UCBooties

Member
I am watching an anime series call Hyouka.
in it they make a mystery story and cite Knox's 10 commandments 9 propositions and 20 rules
I found the 10 commandments

https://www.writingclasses.com/toolbox/tips-masters/ronald-knox-10-commandments-of-detective-fiction
though I also understand that they are outdated by today's standards...

what are the other things?

I am sure there are other tools better used for writing mystery, especially since the mystery I am planning on doing is fully supernatural, but I am kind of curious lol.

Sorry things have been rough for you.

I disagree with the point about "the Watson" being slightly stupider than the average reader. Reading Doyle rather than relying on adaptations it is clear that Watson is perfectly intelligent in his own right, he is simply more conventional in his reasoning and assumptions than Sherlock Holmes. This extends to other characters as well of course. Inspector Lestrade is often portrayed as bumbling and unobservant, but in the stories he is in, Holmes regards him as a driven and capable policeman who is simply too rigid in his deductions. Neither character is actually stupid.

I think you do your readers a disservice by dumbing down the viewpoint character.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Is goodreads still a good writing community, get critiques/read critiques, etc.?

I only used it once for a short story and I got two readers from it, though one of them was a proffesional editor mostly doing networking. I think she used herself as a sort of free demo for me. She got back to me about a month later than the other guy, but her comments were a lot more helpful. Most people on Goodreads seem to be doing/looking for novel stuff, so if that's your jam, I'd say give it a go.
 

Soulfire

Member
My streak continues! Day 69 (lol) Almost didn't write today, tons of errands, Splatfest, and a surprise visit from my husbands sister (ugh) all stood in the way, but I forced out 111 words and now I'm off to bed. Maybe I'll catch up tomorrow, probably not since I plan on canning salsa. We'll see what happens. Still planning on taking my first day off on Friday, I have my sons 6 month checkup and Splatoon all in one day. I think taking that one day off will be alright, it won't ruin my momentum.
 
My streak continues! Day 69 (lol) Almost didn't write today, tons of errands, Splatfest, and a surprise visit from my husbands sister (ugh) all stood in the way, but I forced out 111 words and now I'm off to bed. Maybe I'll catch up tomorrow, probably not since I plan on canning salsa. We'll see what happens. Still planning on taking my first day off on Friday, I have my sons 6 month checkup and Splatoon all in one day. I think taking that one day off will be alright, it won't ruin my momentum.

Booyah!
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Woot, finally got a little bit of success. A short story of mine was recently published at Flash Fiction Magazine As a bit of an aside, it was a challenge story that had mixed response, so I'm kind of shocked this one got published, but hey, sometimes you can't tell what people will like.
 

MilkBeard

Member
Woot, finally got a little bit of success. A short story of mine was recently published at Flash Fiction Magazine As a bit of an aside, it was a challenge story that had mixed response, so I'm kind of shocked this one got published, but hey, sometimes you can't tell what people will like.

Congratulations! I remember that story, actually. I thought it was nice. I don't remember if I voted for it or not, but it doesn't really matter at this point.

I am personally not surprised that a journal accepted a story of yours that had a mixed reception in the challenges. The reason being, those reading the story are doing so for very different reasons, and the perspective will change the perception of the story. Someone in a journal will be reading the story looking for a particular element that speaks to them, that also fits the style they want to show, as opposed to another writer simply reading out of obligation and looking to place a vote.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
Woot, finally got a little bit of success. A short story of mine was recently published at Flash Fiction Magazine As a bit of an aside, it was a challenge story that had mixed response, so I'm kind of shocked this one got published, but hey, sometimes you can't tell what people will like.
Congrats!!

I have learned to take feedback with a grain of salt over the years. If you really believe in the story, send it out and hopefully it will find a home.

Story's great by the way.
 
It's been so damn hard for me to write ever since I went to a 4 year school. I can't write shit in the house anymore. I might open up Celtx at the most or bring the notebook out and look at the paper, but actually writing pages, nah. I really don't feel like walking out in the hot sun with no money in my pocket and likely be the only black person wherever I choose to sit and some places be acting funny with me sitting in their business.

I feel like I should've never gone off to the 4-year college because that's when I pretty much stopped writing. I did write for a little bit when I had a screenwriting course, but that after that was over I went back to stop writing again. I've never had to struggle with writing before. I used to kill this shit when I was in middle and high school.
 
It's been so damn hard for me to write ever since I went to a 4 year school. I can't write shit in the house anymore. I might open up Celtx at the most or bring the notebook out and look at the paper, but actually writing pages, nah. I really don't feel like walking out in the hot sun with no money in my pocket and likely be the only black person wherever I choose to sit and some places be acting funny with me sitting in their business.

I feel like I should've never gone off to the 4-year college because that's when I pretty much stopped writing. I did write for a little bit when I had a screenwriting course, but that after that was over I went back to stop writing again. I've never had to struggle with writing before. I used to kill this shit when I was in middle and high school.

Don't worry about what they think. Focus on your writing. I went into a Barnes & Noble the other day with my Chromebook, sat at a table and wrote for 40 minutes. One guy came over to ask if I wanted anything and I politely declined. Boom.

Just do it.
 
Don't worry about what they think. Focus on your writing. I went into a Barnes & Noble the other day with my Chromebook, sat at a table and wrote for 40 minutes. One guy came over to ask if I wanted anything and I politely declined. Boom.

Just do it.

One guy had told me this isn't a library you have to buy something or leave. I bought from them all the time before, but that didn't matter. Last time I went in there I got a cake and sat for a while and then he told me I got to buy something else or leave because their busy. Another told me to come over here and said you come in here all the time and don't buy anything. That's not true though, it was just twice and those two times it was because I went in there to see if one of the waitresses was in who wanted me to draw her dog.


I did end up leaving today for a little bit. I couldn't take it anymore. Went to a wing bar, then left and sat outside a Sheetz. I didn't write much, but at least I wrote something and made a decision for the plot of my comic. Still need to figure out what I want to do for the ending of my book.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
One guy had told me this isn't a library you have to buy something or leave. I bought from them all the time before, but that didn't matter. Last time I went in there I got a cake and sat for a while and then he told me I got to buy something else or leave because their busy. Another told me to come over here and said you come in here all the time and don't buy anything. That's not true though, it was just twice and those two times it was because I went in there to see if one of the waitresses was in who wanted me to draw her dog.

Woooooow what assholes! But speaking of library, why not a library? Is there any public city run spaces near you?

Where do the homeless people go? Follow the homeless people!
 

Lois_Lane

Member
Is goodreads still a good writing community, get critiques/read critiques, etc.?

Yeah, pretty much. It will take awhile and you should absolutely not limit your search to goodreads. Go to the relevant writing subreddits, go to absolute writer, and ladieswho critique(even if you aren't a lady), and be prepared for the search to last 2-3 months.

I started searching in May and it wasn't till July that I got the 3 critiquers I'm using for my two current novels. Between my initial search and my final three, I had several writers either ghost or drop out due to real world problems. If this happens to you don't let the experience discourage you.

There's a critiquer for everyone out there.
 
Woooooow what assholes! But speaking of library, why not a library? Is there any public city run spaces near you?

Where do the homeless people go? Follow the homeless people!

It's another hour or something from there walking. I try not to walk there if I can and it's too cold for me in there this time of year and I end up with a headache.
 
It's another hour or something from there walking. I try not to walk there if I can and it's too cold for me in there this time of year and I end up with a headache.

What about a park or something? Assuming the weather is nice. Or is there perhaps a mall or something with a food court area you could sit in? Just trying to throw out ideas for you, it'd suck for you or anyone to stop writing because of unfriendly business establishments. There has to be somewhere you can go.
 

Karu

Member
It's kinda bittersweet. Finally finished my Master degree recently, which now gives me time again to write - which I do and very much enjoy; but I also know that the next step will be getting a job and... well, student's life no more. Oh well.

Still, making some little progress every day, plastered my walls with little notes and such to always keep the writing on my mind, even if I may be doing other things. Really come to like this approach.
 
What about a park or something? Assuming the weather is nice. Or is there perhaps a mall or something with a food court area you could sit in? Just trying to throw out ideas for you, it'd suck for you or anyone to stop writing because of unfriendly business establishments. There has to be somewhere you can go.

I could find a spot outside I guess and wait til I go home if I need to to type something up. I do remember being told to leave at a park near me before. Security said there's a private party going on. I didn't even enter the building where it was I was just looking around. I don't live in the city so no mall is within my distance.

The people in Off Topic have helped me a bit. I was wondering if I need to do extensive research for my character's powers and evil plot. I do feel bad like I'm deceiving them. Maybe I should tell them what my true intentions are?
 
How should I handle a query letter and plot summary for a book with four main characters? For the letter I figure I'll focus on one and maybe shout the others out in a sentence each, but the plot summary will be...harder. Especially if I have to keep one of them to a page.

Though to be honest, I'm still not convinced the book is publishable. I waffle back and forth on the writing quality more than a politician trying to appease everyone. However, I'll be stuck in a car tomorrow for like seven hours with nothing better to do. Figure I can bring a notebook and write these out.
 

SolVanderlyn

Thanos acquires the fully powered Infinity Gauntlet in The Avengers: Infinity War, but loses when all the superheroes team up together to stop him.
The ebb and flow of writing is so weird. Yesterday I casually wrote 14 pages like it was nothing, today I'm struggling to bring myself to even sit down and write.
Thiiiiiis, oh man

I have so many scenes from scenes after the one I'm stuck on in my head, ready to go. Like, internal development is mostly done. But I'm struggling getting from point A to point B, even though C, E, F have solid concepts. Yes, D is missing too. My creative process is a mess.

One benefit of writer's block is that ideas for later on in the story have more time to gestate.
 

UCBooties

Member
I'm not doing anything with my novels at the moment because the rewrite process on book 1 has made it pretty clear that the end needs to change and that is going to mean losing most of the work for book 2 and all the planning for book 3.

Instead I've been writing short stories and submitting to magazines, anthologies, anything with an open submission I can get something out for. I don't know if anything will come of these stories but it does feel good to be writing again. I was starting to feel like I was just never going to get back into it.
 
I'm not doing anything with my novels at the moment because the rewrite process on book 1 has made it pretty clear that the end needs to change and that is going to mean losing most of the work for book 2 and all the planning for book 3.

Instead I've been writing short stories and submitting to magazines, anthologies, anything with an open submission I can get something out for. I don't know if anything will come of these stories but it does feel good to be writing again. I was starting to feel like I was just never going to get back into it.

Have you already written books 2 and 3?
 
Book 2 is 60% complete. I think I can salvage a third of it. Fortunately that's the best third...
For future consideration, make sure to edit your first book before even writing a sequel.

For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.



Yeah sure. I've been reading a lot of friends stuff lately. Send me a pm with it and give me a scale of 1-5 how brutal you want me to be.

For some people they do. I might be shit at getting one done in time, but J.K. Rowling was hitting them like they were nothing at one point. I think someone else on here was hitting Erotica books like they were nothing too.
 

UCBooties

Member
For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.

I can't speak for anyone else but my reasons are probably as follows:

1. I enjoy reading novels more than any other type of story, and I want to write the type of stories that I would like to read.

2. I like world-building and plotting a lot, and a novel gives me the opportunity to fully invest in a setting and tinker with it and see what works and what doesn't. It challenges me to extrapolate details into a meaningful and coherent vision of a society and think about what that would really mean for the characters in said society.

3. It affords me the oppurtunity to set things up and then have the pay off much later, which makes me feel smart as a writer and rewards the attentive reader. It also lets me spend more time with characters I like and develop them more than I might be able to in a shorter work.

4. I started writing in earnest because of National Novel Writing Month and at the end of it I had a complete and decent quality first draft. It was a surprise to myself that I was able to pull it off and now I'm invested in the work and want to make it the best possible version of itself.

5. In genre fiction it's hard to shake the feeling that publishing a novel is a sign of legitimacy. Of making it, in a sense. Of course, the world of publishing has been completely upended in the last decade so who knows what's really "legitimate" anymore. Note that this is my personal feeling and not intended as a knock against anyone that self-publishes or uses Patreon, micro-press, or a hundred other methods. Those models take work and hustle and smarts and luck and I have nothing but respect for the people who do it successfully. But for me, personally, I don't think I will feel that I have succeeded as an "author" until I have gotten a novel published.

For future consideration, make sure to edit your first book before even writing a sequel.

This is certainly good advice. But the fact of the matter is that I went through beta-reading, completed two rounds of re-writes, and thought it was good enough to justify beginning work on the next book. I didn't want to stagnate or fixate on just one project. Unfortunately, the querying process has made it evident that there are problems with the ending that I overlooked so now it's got to be reworked again. I do think there's a balance to be struck between rushing into a sequel and continuously tinkering with a first book.
 

Mr-Joker

Banned
Despite having writer's block at times I love to write as well!

Same, I am always busy working on my Novels in my head and always jotting down notes and revisions.

And I freaking love it as it make me so excited of my novel slowly evolving and shifting.

For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.

Because I love coming up with stories and idea and my brain will just keep churning out ideas, to the point that it clogs up my brain.

Writing is the only medium that lets my idea flow and I will not give up even if it's hard and I have to wrestle between my laziness and self doubt about my ability of a writer.

I WILL get a novel finished and published.
 
I mean books are probably the most common form of written narrative people were familiar with growing up. I know when I was in school they didn't give us movie or TV scripts to read. Short stories were shared sometimes, but the main focus was on books. Stuff like Accelerated Reader encouraged you to read books more than anything. The mainstream market is similar. In the media I can't think of when a poetry collection was getting a ton of attention or any short stories. Film generally focuses on the directors and actors out of anybody, so for creative writing of course peeps would think of novels first and everything else second.
 

BorkBork

The Legend of BorkBork: BorkBorkity Borking
For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.

I have no desire to write a novel, but my interest lies in nonfiction and the essay form, which is less about building and more about filtering and rumination.

But I also love dabbling in short fiction and am constantly blown away at how much one can do with language and voice and ideas to build something beautiful and compact. Barthelme, Coover, Calvino - all masters in weirdness and brilliance.

As an aside, I've been listening to a new podcast - LeVar Burton Reads. Think an adult's version of Reading Rainbow, where he handpicks one of his favourite short stories each week to read. It's amazing and highly recommended.
 
For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.
My damn characters won't let their plots stay confined to anything less than 200 pages :[

Seriously. I've tried to do some novellas and they just grow. And grow. And grow.

I'm at a point where I just hope my ideas/worlds/characters can fit into ONE book because I so do not want to do a series. One is hard enough :p
 
So while on a business trip I pulled out a pad and pen and tried a query letter for Toyland. Wondering what y'all think.

BP6 is the sixth pawn in the black army. He's a chess piece. The problem is, he fucking hates chess. He'd rather spend his time at Darbie's strip club, snorting sugar and trying to kill himself, because if if there's one thing BP6 hates more than chess, it's being a pawn.

But in Toyland, you are what you are. You follow the rules on your box.

That is, until BP6 stumbles upon a secret G.I. John weapon--a real one that doesn't shoot plastic bullets but spits fire.

Now he's free. Now the rules don't matter. He's got all of Toyland to explore and damn the consequences!

Of course, it doesn't take long for every soldier, robot, monster, and stuffed animal in Toyland to want BP6 dead. He who owns the weapon owns the world.

Toyland is a dark comedy/action adventure mashup, a Toy Story meets Grand Theft Auto. It measures 66,000 words.
 

FlowersisBritish

fleurs n'est pas britannique
Is B6 a literal pawn? Because if so, Id put "Literally." after that right before he fucking hates chess. I dont think you get across the idea they are toys outside of the name Toyland.
 

zulux21

Member
sigh... I should be writing.
instead I am sitting around seeing what other artists said about chester bennington listening to some LP songs holding back tears.

I know it's just another excuse like the last two times I was planning on seriously writing but he was my favorite singer on my favorite band and it's just so hard to focus.

I should channel this sadness into my writing I suppose especially since I have some depressing stuff coming up. maybe I can force something out >.<;
 

Sibylus

Banned
For real question: Why does everyone want to write novels? They are soooooo much time and work.



Yeah sure. I've been reading a lot of friends stuff lately. Send me a pm with it and give me a scale of 1-5 how brutal you want me to be.

Philosophical: I love reading and writing in the form.
Practical: I'm too long-winded for anything else.
 
sigh... I should be writing.
instead I am sitting around seeing what other artists said about chester bennington listening to some LP songs holding back tears.

I know it's just another excuse like the last two times I was planning on seriously writing but he was my favorite singer on my favorite band and it's just so hard to focus.

I should channel this sadness into my writing I suppose especially since I have some depressing stuff coming up. maybe I can force something out >.<;
I was supposed to be productive yesterday and got fuckall done because of Chester's death.

You can call it an excuse if you want, but at least acknowledge that it's a good one.

Fuck I'm still so sad :( Listening to Hybrid Theory right now and procrastinating getting ready for work.
 

Fuu

Formerly Alaluef (not Aladuf)
Had to stop writing yesterday because of Chester too. I had just managed to finish a chapter with a happy ending when I saw the news.
 

Soulfire

Member
Today is my vacation day, whoohoo! I made it, didn't think I would. I only wrote 58,379 words, but I wrote every day for 74 days. My lowest day was 111 words, highest day was 1431. I'm still not back up to the old productivity levels, but that wasn't the goal of the streak. I didn't finish the book I'm currently working on, but it turns out next week my daughter is going to be with my in-laws so maybe I'll be able to write more and finish it up, we'll see. I'm at that stage where everything I'm writing it crap and I just want it to be over.
 

zulux21

Member
I was supposed to be productive yesterday and got fuckall done because of Chester's death.

You can call it an excuse if you want, but at least acknowledge that it's a good one.

Fuck I'm still so sad :( Listening to Hybrid Theory right now and procrastinating getting ready for work.

heh I am not saying it's a bad excuse. I am more getting annoyed that between work and social things/planning a vacation my periods of time to sit down to write are getting decently far apart and right now crap keeps happening on those days, whether I am sick (vomiting and light heated), hurt (pulled my back at work) or someone who has inspired me through music has died :/

I did manage to get a little bit done last night. just not much. I am going to try to get a bit more done today but I doubt it is going to go well since a number of places are still responding to chester's death. The disturbed statement was really sad.I mean it's not like I am on any sort of deadline, but my progress so far is pitiful. I don't think I have even hit 30k words yet this year :/
 
heh I am not saying it's a bad excuse. I am more getting annoyed that between work and social things/planning a vacation my periods of time to sit down to write are getting decently far apart and right now crap keeps happening on those days, whether I am sick (vomiting and light heated), hurt (pulled my back at work) or someone who has inspired me through music has died :/
Sorry if I came off as kind of snippy with that last post. Didn't mean that. Been a rough week.

I know what you mean about crap getting in the way. Work has been a motherfucker this week. I'm so far behind my schedule and it's just driving me batshit.
 

zulux21

Member
Sorry if I came off as kind of snippy with that last post. Didn't mean that. Been a rough week.

I know what you mean about crap getting in the way. Work has been a motherfucker this week. I'm so far behind my schedule and it's just driving me batshit.

oh you didn't, sorry if it felt like I took it that way. wasn't frustrated at you.

I mean it also doesn't help that my editor (my wife) despite all my delays hasn't read any of my new stuff which is an issue as the current stuff i am working on shapes a number of future events and I need to make sure that some of the foreshadowing lines I put in there make sense in the scene and not just to me because I know why i worded things that way >.<:
 
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