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Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-06-2017, 03:26 AM)
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Here's something I thought would be interesting.

I already reviewed all the Pokemon (Gen VII will probably start early next year once I have the chance to digest Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon), so, why not in the meantime, talk about the other big thing that's added each Generation---Moves!

There are over 700 moves in existence, and it seems Ultra Sun and Ultra Moon will add a few more as seen by UB-Burst's "Mind Blown", so I thought I'd go through and take a closer look at them. Not really from a competitive standpoint, but more a flavor point of view---why is the move the Type it is? Why do certain Pokemon learn it? What interesting translation issues arise? There's actually some interesting stuff I've found out just from the initial moves.

So, there's no real "order" to the moves, but I'm using the internal numbering and tackling them in that order---it's grouped by Generation though, so it'll be interesting to see how moves evolved over time. I'll do about three to six or so moves in each post, and I hope you'll find this interesting. Feel free to comment about your experience with using the moves in the main game or competitive battling!

I imagine while there are almost as many moves as there are Pokemon, this shouldn't take nearly as long since each write-up is a paragraph or two.

Pound - Normal [Physical]
40/35PP/100%
The target is physically pounded with a long tail, a foreleg, or the like.

Pound is the first move by Index Number and one of the most basic attacks in the series. When it was first introduced Stadium described it as a "more powerful" alternative to Tackle, but that's no longer true since Gen V when Tackle got a boost to 50, and later in Gen VII down to 40. So, now, Pound and Tackle are basically the same. Both function as a "starter move" to give to early game Pokemon and hatched Pokemon, but otherwise have no function beyond that and are usually the first to be overwritten.

When Pound was introduced in Gen I, it was somewhat of a "cute" move and mainly belonged to "feminine" Pokemon such as Clefairy, Jigglypuff, and Chansey, though Grimer and Drowzee were the oddballs who could also learn it. It's since been picked up by a larger variety of Pokemon since Gen III, including Starter Pokemon such as Treecko and Piplup (though oddly Prinplup has Tackle), though it's still less common than the more prolific Tackle.

In the show, Ash's Treecko used Pound as its main offensive attack and used it throughout his evolutions as well---while in the games Pound is weak, I think it's fair to say that the show has the leeway to factor in the physical elements of the Pokemon using the move. So, regardless of how low Pound's BP is in the games, Sceptile whacking people with its big ass, well, ass-tree would definitely hurt!

Pound is one of Jigglypuff's Special Moves in Smash Brothers, his neutral in Smash 64 and his side in Melee, and is a surprisingly useful move due to allowing Jigglypuff to recover horizontally by quite a bit!

Karate Chop - Fighting [Physical]
50/25PP/100%
The target is attacked with a sharp chop. Critical hits land more easily.

When Karate Chop first debuted in Gen I, it was bizarrely a Normal-type. Now sometimes such oddities can be attributed to a translation error, like perhaps the original name of the move wasn't as specific? Nope, even in Japanese it's Karate Chop. Considering it's named after an actual martial arts technique and not a generic verb, and only Fighting-type Pokemon could learn it, I chalk this up as a programming error on Game Freak's part that wasn't fixed in time for release.

In Generation I, only the Machop and Mankey lines could learn Karate Chop, and due to how critical hits were based on Speed it was more useful in the hands of the much faster Mankey family. It's too bad it wasn't a Fighting-type move, because Gen I was sorely lacking in a solid Fighting-type attack without negative drawbacks. After Generation I, Karate Chop virtually disappeared except for Elekid and Magby learning it through Egg Moves, with no new Pokemon picking it up for the longest time. Finally, with the introduction of Sawk, the Karate Pokemon, it returned in Generation V and in Generation VI Pancham and Hawlucha picked it up. Unfortunately it's not really anything more than a basic Fighting-type attack now that you'll quickly replace, though I have to admit in a mono-Fighting Type run I did recently in Pokemon Y it proved to be my bread-and-butter in the early game.

This was basically the Machop line's signature attack in the show early on, but it gained prominence in XY due to Ash's Hawlucha using it. It's worth noting here that most contact moves have been "censored" since the digital era began, given a glow to make the impact less "violent" I guess. Or to make it more obvious it's an actual move and not a basic action.

Double Slap - Normal [Physical]
15/10PP/85%
The target is slapped repeatedly, back and forth, two to five times in a row.

So...Double Slap can hit up to five times!? We'll see this happen with additional moves, but sometimes the localization's attempt to translate the original name ends up changing how the move is perceived. In Japanese Double Slap is known as "Oufuku Binta", or "Round Trip Slap". Thus, originally, there was no specific number in the name.

Though I'm not positive on this, I believe Oufuku Binta is probably the "official name" of that classic anime gag where usually the female straight-man slaps the male character when they do something dumb---you know, Misty used to do this a lot. Perhaps this is why, like Pound, most of the Pokemon who learn it tend to be on the feminine side. Most people will probably remember this move thanks to Jigglypuff and Clefairy using it in the show, as it was sort of a "signature" move for them early on.

Double Slap is the first multi-hit move introduced, which many players seem to dislike due to their unreliability, though in recent years they've become a bit more popular due to working around certain Abilities and Items thanks to their unique properties. Among them, however, Double Slap is just too weak to serve any real purpose and as a Normal-type move it's doesn't gain any advantages over certain Pokemon.

Comet Punch - Normal [Physical]
18/15PP/85%
The target is hit with a flurry of punches that strike two to five times in a row.

Now here's another odd translation---the original name, "Renzoku Punch", means "Consecutive Punch" which fits since it's a multi-hit move. I'm not sure how they ended up with "Comet Punch", but ironically that name would later be used as the Japanese name of Meteor Mash.

In Generation 1 it could only be used by Hitmonchan and Kangaskhan. I assume the intent behind Kangaskhan learning it was perhaps suggesting the baby helped with the punches, which Game Freak would later incorporate through the Parental Bond Ability, but that's just my theory. Gen II saw Ledyba and Ledian learn it, and nowadays they're usually the ones associated with it. Though they learn the move due to their multiple arms, in a nice little twist Comet Punch works out quite well since Ledian is implied to have a connection to the stars.

Comet Punch remained a Normal-type move despite the name, perhaps because Game Freak wanted Kangaskhan to keep the STAB? Anyway like Double Slap it's really not all that useful, and basically disappeared from movelists after Gen II till Pancham brought it back. Oh, and Buzzswole. The Ultra Beasts learning all these really weak pedestrian moves almost seems like Game Freak furthering the theory that they're just garden variety Pokemon from where they come from.

Oh, and it's one of the few moves with a base power that doesn't end with 0 or 5. That kind of bugs me.

Mega Punch - Normal [Physical]
80/20PP/85%
The target is slugged by a punch thrown with muscle-packed power.

Mega Punch is another Normal-type move with "Punch" in its name, but in this case I may have an explanation. In Japan the move is known as "Megaton Punch", which seems to be a generic name in quite a bit of Japanese media but seems to have been popularized by the Tokusatsu series "Giant Robo". So, rather than specifically a fighter's punch, it's more of a general heroic "punch".

Like Comet Punch only Hitmonchan and Kangaskhan were originally capable of learning it naturally---oh, and Mew---but it was also TM01 in Generation I and virtually every bipedal Pokemon with hands, no matter how small, could learn it. Like quite a few Generation I moves it disappeared from move lists for awhile, besides Geodude and Magby picking it up through breeding, until Gen IV when Regigigas got it as his basic move. Golett and Golurk also learn it in Gen V, which seems to support my idea it was intended as a reference to Giant Robo since Golurk is, well, a Giant Robo.

No longer a TM, Mega Punch made a return as a Move Tutor move in Generation III and once more every bipedal Pokemon with hands could learn it. But, why would you? Let's be honest, in Gen I Mega Punch was a solid move for the time, but by Gen III there were so many better options that such a plain move with low accuracy (Stadium humorously claims the move is "highly accurate") was pointless. Beyond the nostalgia factor, there's really no reason to use Mega Punch.

Pay Day - Normal [Physical]
40/20PP/100%
Numerous coins are hurled at the target to inflict damage. Money is earned after the battle.

You probably know this already, but Pay Day's Japanese name, "Neko ni Koban", or "Coins for a Cat", refers to a Japanese idiom that basically means "don't waste your time/effort on those who don't value it". Koban is an old-school Japanese coin that is seen on Meowth's head, it being based on the Maneki Neko figure which is pictured holding them, and is also the coins that appear when the move is used.

Currently Meowth, and Alolan Meowth, are the only Pokemon who can naturally learn it. Persian used to be able to learn it itself up till Gen III, but this was dropped as of Gen IV. At the same time it was moved up to Meowth learning it at Level 30, post when it normally evolves at Level 28, thus it seems Game Freak wanted it to exist as Meowth's novelty move exclusively.

Purrloin also can learn it through breeding, which fits since it's based on a cat and a thieving one at that. A special Skitty obtained through Pokemon Box also could have it. In Generation II it was possible to breed it on a Hoppip, and I think this was a pun---Hoppip's Japanese name is Hanenekko. "Nekko" being root, but perhaps that explains why it kind of looks like a cat? Generation I had it as a TM, and the list of Pokemon who could learn it was kind of odd. Psyduck? Primeape? Rhydon? I'm not really sure if there was a reason for this or if they just picked a few at random. The only way to get it on Hoppip by the way was using a Time Travel'd Pikachu or Raichu who learned the move via TM in Gen 1.

Pay Day is a gimmick move that gave you money every time you used it based on the user's level x 2 in Gen I and II, later x 5. It was very useful in Generation I, along with Persian itself who could abuse critical hits with its Speed, as being one of the only ways to obtain money during the post-game but since there are now far more easier ways to make money in Pokemon games it's now nothing more than a novelty move.

In the anime, Team Rocket's Meowth famously is unable to learn Pay Day---apparently learning to talk and walk took away its ability to learn moves beyond Fury Swipes.
balladofwindfishes
(10-06-2017, 03:30 AM)
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In the anime, Team Rocket's Meowth famously is unable to learn Pay Day---apparently learning to talk and walk took away its ability to learn moves beyond Fury Swipes.

A fun fact that got me my tag haha

I'm not really sure if there was a reason for this or if they just picked a few at random.

Welcome to Gen I TMs. They all seem pretty arbitrary most of the time. It actually makes some Gen I Pokemon stand out because they can still learn moves like Thunderbolt that their later peers can not (like Starmie).
Mr-Joker
Banned
(10-06-2017, 03:30 AM)

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

Double Slap - Normal [Physical]
15/10PP/85%
The target is slapped repeatedly, back and forth, two to five times in a row.

So...Double Slap can hit up to five times!? We'll see this happen with additional moves, but sometimes the localization's attempt to translate the original name ends up changing how the move is perceived. In Japanese Double Slap is known as "Oufuku Binta", or "Round Trip Slap". Thus, originally, there was no specific number in the name.

Though I'm not positive on this, I believe Oufuku Binta is probably the "official name" of that classic anime gag where usually the female straight-man slaps the male character when they do something dumb---you know, Misty used to do this a lot. Perhaps this is why, like Pound, most of the Pokemon who learn it tend to be on the feminine side. Most people will probably remember this move thanks to Jigglypuff and Clefairy using it in the show, as it was sort of a "signature" move for them early on.

Double Slap is the first multi-hit move introduced, which many players seem to dislike due to their unreliability, though in recent years they've become a bit more popular due to working around certain Abilities and Items thanks to their unique properties. Among them, however, Double Slap is just too weak to serve any real purpose and as a Normal-type move it's doesn't gain any advantages over certain Pokemon.

Ah double slap a move where the AI uses it always hit 5 times every time maybe with a critical hit but when I uses it, it will always be 2....why game why?

Also I taught Pikachu in yellow payday...thought it would be a fun move for him.
Prodigenius10
Member
(10-06-2017, 03:36 AM)
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I never realized that there were so many moves in the games..Wow. if you had asked me to guess I would've probably said 200 or so.

Nice thread, I'll be keeping an eye on it seeing as how I enjoyed the one detailing all the Pokemon. Hopefully in the future you can do one that covers the Gym Leaders across all the games.
Boogiepop
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:01 AM)
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Definitely gonna keep an eye on this thread. One thing that feels like a shame is that you can't really reasonably have the visual element for a lot of these as easily as on the Pokemon to help break up the text a tad, I'd imagine, thanks to recycling of animations and the like (or at least I think so, right? Like, I know plenty of stuff does have at least something a little different to show off, but my brain's kind of blanking on a lot of the more "simple"/less used moves... which probably means this thread will be good for me, I guess, haha!)

Also, man, it'll definitely be amusing to watch the progression here as the generations go on, as I get the feel that they started paying a LOT more attention with what they were doing with moves and at least trying to give the new ones SOME sort of niche as time went on, as opposed to the roughness of plenty of Gen I moves.
Zubz
Banned
(10-06-2017, 07:14 AM)
Huh. I had no clue Hoppip could learn Pay Day! Weird TM's like that are why I'm happy Gen I Mons can now be transferred to Gen VII; I love weird, unexpected move choices.

Metronome's in the same boat.
unknownstranger
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:16 AM)
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I never understood why almost every multi hit move isn't 100% accurate.
Zyrox
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:34 AM)
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Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

I imagine while there are almost as many moves as there are Pokemon, this shouldn't take nearly as long since each write-up is a paragraph or two.

*writes 4-5 paragraphs per move anyway*

Haha, you madman. Loved your previous thread and I'm liking the idea for this as well.
Didn't realize there are actually so many moves. Thought that number would be significantly lower somehow.

And Re: The first few moves. Man, Gen I movelists were weird.
Hero of Legend
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:40 AM)
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Gastro Acid is literally vomit LOL.
WrenchNinja
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:42 AM)
Are you going to do the Z versions for status and other non-attacking moves?
fisheyes
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:45 AM)
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You're an absolute madman birdie

I look forward to your synopsis of every sprite used in the games next.
lupinko
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:47 AM)
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Prior to Sun and Moon there were 721 Pokémon, poor Volcanion.
clay_ghost
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:50 AM)
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Originally Posted by fisheyes

You're an absolute madman birdie

I look forward to your synopsis of every sprite used in the games next.

Every trainer type.

On topic.


I guess this will include the "Shadow" moves from Orre?
papertoonz
Member
(10-06-2017, 07:51 AM)
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you're one crazy person birdie, i'm gonna try and see this to the end
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 08:48 AM)
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I will use this thread as an opportunity to be angry at Gen 1 name translations, especially the ones with English already names.

I think Double Slap is an example.
dc89
Member
(10-06-2017, 08:51 AM)
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God speed OP. Really enjoyed your Pokemon review thread.
TriggerShy
Member
(10-06-2017, 08:53 AM)
Pound



Karate Chop



Double Slap



Comet Punch



Mega Punch



Pay Day

Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 08:54 AM)
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You should also use the one where Machamp's going Perfect Cell on Hawlucha when he's doing Karate Chop :P
WrenchNinja
Member
(10-06-2017, 08:58 AM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy

Comet Punch

Infernape can't learn comet punch in gen 4. That's pretty funny.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 09:01 AM)
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Originally Posted by WrenchNinja

Infernape can't learn comet punch in gen 4. That's pretty funny.

Bulbasaur couldn't learn Whilwind but the anime had it. I think even in-game we got mons that have moves they can't learn.
Mr-Joker
Banned
(10-06-2017, 01:38 PM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy

Comet Punch

Pretty sure that Infernape is using Mach Punch rather than comet punch.
WPS
Member
(10-06-2017, 01:51 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boss Doggie

I will use this thread as an opportunity to be angry at Gen 1 name translations, especially the ones with English already names.

I think Double Slap is an example.

I tend to roll my eyes when people get overly angry about Pokémon name changes from Japanese to English, but I am totally guilty of the same for loads of attack names.

My bugbears are in gen 4 and 5 though, so that will be a while.

Looking forward to the rest of the thread!
balladofwindfishes
(10-06-2017, 01:54 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boss Doggie

I will use this thread as an opportunity to be angry at Gen 1 name translations, especially the ones with English already names.

I think Double Slap is an example.

Just Gen I?

Aerial Ace and Sucker Punch say hi
Exterminieren
Banned
(10-06-2017, 01:56 PM)
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You beautiful maniac.

Subbed.
ash_ag
Member
(10-06-2017, 02:02 PM)
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Interesting idea Birdie. Subscribed.
TeamLeftMatch
Member
(10-06-2017, 02:03 PM)
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This thread seems like an absolute joy. I'm excited to see some of the forgotten or underused moves.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 02:03 PM)
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Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

Just Gen I?

Aerial Ace and Sucker Punch say hi

I already mentioned Aerial Ace. It conveys the same meaning when the original term is more of a samurai cut relying on puns.

Sucker Punch also works because "sucker punching" is more of a metaphor based on a literal backhand.
balladofwindfishes
(10-06-2017, 02:08 PM)
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Originally Posted by Boss Doggie

I already mentioned Aerial Ace. It conveys the same meaning when the original term is more of a samurai cut relying on puns.

Sucker Punch also works because "sucker punching" is more of a metaphor based on a literal backhand.

I think "Sneak Attack" would have worked perfectly for Sucker Punch. They need to be extra careful with names these days, as we're starting to get abilities that boost certain types of attacks based on what they do.

Sucker Punch isn't boosted by Iron Fist, for example, despite the English name implying it's a punch attack.
Mr-Joker
Banned
(10-06-2017, 02:09 PM)
If we are talking about moves having incorrect names then any electric moves that have the word "Thunder" is just straight up wrong as thunder is the sound, they should have lighting, especially the move Thunder.

Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

I think "Sneak Attack" would have worked perfectly for Sucker Punch. They need to be extra careful with names these days, as we're starting to get abilities that boost certain types of attacks based on what they do.

Sucker Punch isn't boosted by Iron Fist, for example, despite the English name implying it's a punch attack.

Agreed, Meteor Mash is boosted by Iron Fist but you wouldn't know that just from the name alone.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 02:13 PM)
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Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

I think "Sneak Attack" would have worked perfectly for Sucker Punch. They need to be extra careful with names these days, as we're starting to get abilities that boost certain types of attacks based on what they do.

Sucker Punch isn't boosted by Iron Fist, for example, despite the English name implying it's a punch attack.

the concept of suckerpunching someone isn't limited to punching though

hell even without the name, you can fault it to the attack graphics

Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

If we are talking about moves having incorrect names then any electric moves that have the word "Thunder" is just straight up wrong as thunder is the sound, they should have lighting, especially the move Thunder.

Agreed, Meteor Mash is boosted by Iron Fist but you wouldn't know that just from the name alone.

Ironically isn't it officially called Comet Punch?
Raiden
prruuwuu
(10-06-2017, 02:14 PM)
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700 moves and all i used was cut all day to win.
balladofwindfishes
(10-06-2017, 02:15 PM)
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Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

If we are talking about moves having incorrect names then any electric moves that have the word "Thunder" is just straight up wrong as thunder is the sound, they should have lighting, especially the move Thunder.

This isn't something Pokemon invented.

Lightning being called a thunderbolt was long before Pokemon.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-06-2017, 02:28 PM)
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In Japan the two are interchangeable, as "kaminari" can refer to both thunder and lightning.

With that said, they should have called it Lightning.
TriggerShy
Member
(10-06-2017, 05:40 PM)

Originally Posted by Mr-Joker

Pretty sure that Infernape is using Mach Punch rather than comet punch.

Whatever, when there are like, 12 different "punch" moves and a bunch of Pokémon that use their fists, it's hard to tell with the anime.

Comet Punch for realsies

Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-06-2017, 10:38 PM)
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The Elemental Punches

The Elemental Punches---Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch---are three very iconic moves introduced in Generation 1, and are still popular today. It's easy to see why considering each of them have a nice balance of power, accuracy, and an added status effect, and being TMs in Gen II and later Move Tutor Moves in every subsequent Generation (bar Gen VII currently...) have led to them becoming a staple for many Pokemon by providing them useful coverage. The majority of Pokemon with usable arms (and a few exceptions) can learn at least one of them through the Move Tutor, with many learning two or even three. One of my favorite Pokemon to battle with, Medicham, is one such Pokemon giving it a ton of versatility. Since they're Move Tutor moves now mainly, this means they see a lot of use in the post-game and competitive scene more than the scenario though.

In Generation I however, they didn't have that same oomph as only four Pokemon could learn them---Hitmonchan could learn all three, while Magmar, Electabuzz, and Jynx picked up their respective Elemental Punch and, thus, could be seen as their "signature move". This led to Jynx sort of being seen as a counterpart to Magmar and Electabuzz, which continued in Gen II with all three getting similar Baby Pokemon, but ended with Gen IV giving the latter evolutions while poor Jynx got nothing. This is probably due to Game Freak wanting to do very little with Jynx given the controversy surrounding it. More Pokemon can learn them naturally nowadays, though they're still somewhat uncommon, and quite a few who do learn them naturally require the use of Heart Scales such as Dragonite.

For the first three Generations, they were Special-moves (for those of you who jumped into the franchise with Diamond and Pearl, in the old days the Physical/Special split was determined by Type) and thus were primarily used as coverage moves by Special Attackers such as Gengar and Alakazam. Come Generation IV, however, and then they became useful for Physical Attackers such as Medicham and Hitmonchan, who could finally put them to good use. As Special already had the equally useful, and slightly more powerful, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, this made sense, though unfortunately some Pokemon such as Alakazam could not learn those moves and relied on the Elemental Punches for such coverage prior to the Physical/Special Split.

Fire Punch - Fire [Physical]
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with a fiery fist. This may also leave the target with a burn.

Fire Punch is the first of the Elemental Punches, and associated with Magmar---though it has since become a natural move of the Electabuzz family perhaps to suggest a relationship between the two. Fire Punch actually isn't learned by too many Fire-type Pokemon naturally, with currently only three Fire-type families gaining it though level up, and two more through breeding. Despite the fact it could be seen as "Fire/Fighting the move", only Blaziken learns it without additional help.

Well, there's not much else to say about Fire Punch---it's a punch that engulfs the target's fist on fire! Though I don't have any proof, I believe it's the Elemental Punch the least used for coverage since there's plenty of other ways to hurt Ice, Steel, and Grass-type Pokemon.

Ice Punch - Ice [Physical]
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with an icy fist.This may also leave the target frozen.

Ice Punch is associated with Jynx, though Elekid can pick it up through breeding making it the only one of the original "Elemental Punchers" who can learn all three. There's not a ton of Ice-type Pokemon, so not surprisingly the list of Ice-type Pokemon who can learn it naturally is rather short. It wasn't till Gen IV that Abomasnow picked it up, and then after that it wasn't till the recent Crabominable.

But, that aside, Ice Punch is perhaps the most useful of the Elemental Punches due to being one of the most effective ways to deal with Dragon-type Pokemon, and the additional bonus of freezing the opponent is always nice especially in Generation I where getting frozen pretty much was an instant loss. Since Ice Punch has 10% chance of freezing the opponent, the same chance as basically everything else bar Tri Attack (lower) and Nature Power when used in the right climate, there's really no better alternative if you want to freeze the opponent in terms of probability. With Fire Punch and Thunder Punch, if you're using them for their additional effects you have better options like Scald and Thunder Wave, but no such option exists with freezing the opponent beyond moves with simply more attack.

Ice Punch to me is the coolest (no pun) Elemental Punch, only because it's cool to visualize ice forming around a fist and then shattering into the opponent. There was a rather cool episode in Diamond and Pearl where Ash had his Buizel learn to utilize it by punching a waterfall at rapid speeds, and I thought that was a cool and somewhat logical way to show how you'd teach a Pokemon such a move. It's also the Elemental Punch I used the most with my Medicham.

Oh, somewhat infamously, the ORAS website advertised Blaziken being able to learn this (and said picture is still the page image on Bulbapedia!) and then offered an apology. Hah! Showing it fighting Flygon of all things almost felt like purposeful trolling on their part.

Thunder Punch
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with an electrified fist. This may also leave the target with paralysis.

And finally there's Thunder Punch, Electabuzz's trademark punch---though, like with Electabuzz and Fire Punch, the Magmar family is now capable of naturally learning it. Remember how few Fire-types learned Fire Punch naturally, and even fewer Ice-types learned Ice Punch? Well, Thunder Punch is even more sparse, with only three Electric families learning it, and that's only thanks to Xurkitree's introduction in Gen VII. Even when adding in breeding, all you get is the Pikachu line.

But Thunder Punch is another good coverage move, this time for Fire-type Pokemon as quite a large amount of them are capable of using it and it's basically their only way in many cases to deal with Water-type Pokemon. Anyone who used Typhlosion in G/S probably taught it Thunder Punch with their TM, and actually every Fire-type Starter can learn it. Well, except Incineroar, but if it returns as a Move Tutor in USUM I can't imagine it getting skipped over since even Delphox can whip it out.

A point I want to make when considering a move such as Thunder Punch is how the anime should handle it---sure, it's an Electric-type attack, but there's clearly a physical punch involved so what should take priority? In one episode of Diamond and Pearl, an Electabuzz attacks a Gliscor with Thunder Punch and hurts it. Game purists might find this offensive, but to me it's perfectly allowable since the anime doesn't have to follow strict game logic for balance. Gliscor is a pretty light Pokemon, so it being punched and then just acting as if it didn't get hurt really wouldn't make much sense, would it? I recall the episode seemed to imply it was the punch more than the electricity hurting it, there wasn't really any sparks on Gliscor's body indicating it took electrical damage, so I was perfectly okay with it. I think such things should be considered first over simply going by the game rules 1:1, because sometimes that's silly.

Scratch - Normal [Physical]
35/40PP/100%
Hard, pointed, sharp claws rake the target to inflict damage.

Scratch is similar to Pound as another "starting move" to give to Pokemon, and basically the same move except for being given to different Pokemon based on "flavor", typically those with sharp claws or based on animals known to scratch. Though you have to use your imagination in some cases, as some Pokemon are drawn in abstract ways and don't necessarily have visible claws, but are implied to. Take the Elemental Monkeys, all three can learn Scratch, yet they have oven mitt hands---but we know they're monkeys who can scratch, so your brain usually fills that in and doesn't question it. Or Diglett, who can learn Scratch despite its hands never been shown as part of its "character".

Scratch is common among Starter Pokemon, with one Starter learning it in every Generation except for Gen V where it's absent---and, excluding Totodile, all of them are the Fire Starters. That's really the only thing interesting about Scratch.

In the show, Meowth has Scratch as its most basic move, and early on in the show used it quite a bit against Jessie and James when annoyed with them, though this has disappeared mostly in later seasons due to it being too violent. I recall the dub also cut out the actual scratching in a few instances, cutting to showing the scars. Every once in awhile I think this pops up again, but Meowth tends to be a bit nicer to his team now (well, except in the dub...) when it comes to abusing them. That's usually Jessie's role now.

Vice Grip - Normal [Physical]
55/30PP/100%
The target is gripped and squeezed from both sides to inflict damage.

Apparently "Vise" is the American-English spelling, while "Vice" is the British-English spelling, though honestly as an American I've only see the latter---which, come to think of it, the first time I saw this word was probably this move. In Japan, this move is named "Hasamu", which can basically be "clamp", "pinch", etc. The move known as Clamp in English happens to be "Kara de Hasamu", "clam/pinch with a shell", so there's a relationship between the two moves that's lost in translation. The two moves don't do anything similar, nor does any Pokemon learn both, so it's probably a coincidence mind you.

Vice Grip is one of those moves I forgot existed for the longest time. It's pretty pointless, and most of the Pokemon who learn it are caught with stronger moves in their arsenal. It used to be learned by only Pokemon with pincers such as Pinsir and Krabby, and its description even mentioned it was only used by Pokemon with pincers, but pincer was dropped from the description in Gen V---right when Klink was introduced who gained the move. A nice little attention to detail, though outside of Klink all the other Pokemon who learn it do have pincers. One odd omission, though it doesn't need it, is Scizor, who has pincers and is even named "Hassamu" in Japan, so, it'd be like the perfect move for it in terms of flavor.

I know I said it's "pointless", but in Sun and Moon I actually appreciated this move since finally an early game Pokemon, Grubbin, can learn it when it's useful and it proves to be a pretty viable attack early on. Grubbin really impressed me to be honest, and I can't believe I was using Vice Grip as my lead attack!
TeamLeftMatch
Member
(10-06-2017, 10:45 PM)
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The elemental punches are probably the best way to get around typing considering how good those moves are. My favourite has to be fire punch just thinking that the Pokemon punches so fast their fist catches on fire from the force.

And lol for a second I thought vice grip was wrap and got confused if there was a name change.
Aaronrules380
Member
(10-06-2017, 10:49 PM)
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Birdie, are you insane? First all the pokemon, now all the moves? Looking forward to this lol
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-06-2017, 10:53 PM)
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Originally Posted by WrenchNinja

Are you going to do the Z versions for status and other non-attacking moves?

I forgot about those.

I'll probably put them in the description, but won't bring it up unless it's something interesting like what Splash and Conversion do.

As for the regular Z-Moves, I'll probably save them for a post at the end since they're mostly the same deal---and by that time USUM will be out and we'll know of any new Z-Moves.

I think I'll cover Shadow Moves after the Gen III moves, since they're technically Gen III moves.
CelestialWolfZX
Member
(10-06-2017, 11:02 PM)
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Those Elemental Punches had their chance to shine best in Gen 2 with those move tutors, It's always fun to slap Typhlosion with Thunder Punch to get over that pesky water weakness. Shame it's not viable for Typhlosion after the Physical/Special Split, but some of those physical pokemon appreciate those punches a lot.

Good luck if you are trying to get them all, it's going to be fun when you get to some of those unique moves on pokemon that no one ever uses so everyone will have no idea what you are talking about (Crush Grip? Barage? What are these moves.) I imagine Kinesis will get a quite good write up. And then there are those controversial moves that will get everyone talking (Stealth Rocks and Scald are my personal grudges).
WPS
Member
(10-06-2017, 11:09 PM)
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Casual reminder that Gastly learns all 3 elemental punches. Wooper gets Ice punch as well.
Dantrist
Member
(10-06-2017, 11:11 PM)
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Haha, and I thought it was done after the Pokémon thread. Nope. All the moves now, amazing.

I look forward to it. Give Octazooka some love. Also I remember being confused by Tri Attack when I was a little kid, because I clearly saw fire, ice and electricity, but it was a normal type move. Made me appreciate Dodrio though.

Edit: oh yeah, as for the punches. I thought it was so badass to give hitmonchan all of them.
Toxi
Banned
(10-06-2017, 11:17 PM)
Subscribed. Birdie is the greatest Pokemon professor.

I love Thunder Punch on Buzzwole. It's a surprisingly effective coverage option.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-06-2017, 11:22 PM)
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Originally Posted by CelestialWolfZX

Those Elemental Punches had their chance to shine best in Gen 2 with those move tutors, It's always fun to slap Typhlosion with Thunder Punch to get over that pesky water weakness. Shame it's not viable for Typhlosion after the Physical/Special Split, but some of those physical pokemon appreciate those punches a lot.

Good luck if you are trying to get them all, it's going to be fun when you get to some of those unique moves on pokemon that no one ever uses so everyone will have no idea what you are talking about (Crush Grip? Barage? What are these moves.) I imagine Kinesis will get a quite good write up. And then there are those controversial moves that will get everyone talking (Stealth Rocks and Scald are my personal grudges).


Unlike the Pokemon, there are a ton of moves which I'm barely familiar with myself so it'll be fun to learn more about them.

Maybe I'll finally learn what "Quash" does.
Ultimadrago
Member
(10-06-2017, 11:37 PM)
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OP, I only ask that you respect Waterfall.
TriggerShy
Member
(10-06-2017, 11:50 PM)
Fire Punch



Ice Punch



Thunder Punch



Scratch



Vice Grip

Neku89
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(10-07-2017, 12:37 AM)
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Man, thinking back at Gen I moves, it's hilarious how Italian translators missed completely the point when translating some of those.

Pound became Libbra, as in "the unit of weight called pound". Counter became Contatore, as in "a thing that counts". Focus Energy became Energy Conc., as in "fuck you why am I even bothering, the move is broken anyway".
Wiped89
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(10-07-2017, 12:47 AM)
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Originally Posted by Neku89

Man, thinking back at Gen I moves, it's hilarious how Italian translators missed completely the point when translating some of those.

Pound became Libbra, as in "the unit of weight called pound". Counter became Contatore, as in "a thing that counts". Focus Energy became Energy Conc., as in "fuck you why am I even bothering, the move is broken anyway".

Oh my god, that's hilarious. That's not missing the point. That's just downright incorrect!
Toxi
Banned
(10-07-2017, 12:50 AM)

Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

Just Gen I?

Aerial Ace and Sucker Punch say hi

Sucker Punch works completely fine. It's a phrase that doesn't necessarily refer to a literal punch.
unknownstranger
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(10-07-2017, 12:59 AM)
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It's stupid how fire punch and thunder punch are still the best widely spread physical moves without recoil for their types. They gave a Pikachu clone the best non-legendary physical electric attack. Fire has more options with Blaze Kick being decently spread, but Sacred Fire is exclusive to Ho-oh and Entei and Heatmor (who's crap) is the only one who gets Fire Lash.
Nocturnowl
Member
(10-07-2017, 12:59 AM)
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This'll be a fun thread.

Vicegrip is one of those moves where half the pokemon using it make me think it should be way stronger, if I'm caught in a Pinsir or Kingler vicegrip, I expect DEATH.
But I guess that's what Guillotine is for.

Elemental punches are what keep Goldenroad mall open for business.

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