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N4Us
Member
(10-09-2017, 02:53 AM)
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Horn Attack is one of the trademarks of R/Y speedruns. One of the best moves you can get early on in the game.
unknownstranger
Member
(10-09-2017, 02:56 AM)
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They added an exact clone of Vine Whip in gen 7 because it didn't really fit with Rowlet. They could have done something at least a little different and gave it priority or made it special, but no it's the exact same.
Toxi
Banned
(10-09-2017, 02:59 AM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy

Sand Attack

Mr-Joker
Banned
(10-09-2017, 02:59 AM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy

Whoa whoa whoa...Charizard can learn Blaze Kick?!

*Goes look it up.*

Ahhhh you tricked me Origin, he can't learn it.
balladofwindfishes
(10-09-2017, 03:01 AM)
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I believe that's Mega Kick, which Charizard can learn in RB.
TheSadRanger
Member
(10-09-2017, 03:28 AM)
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Razor Leaf



Solar Beam



Substitute

Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-09-2017, 04:06 AM)
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In PMD Fury Attack is pretty useful.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-09-2017, 06:13 PM)
Watch Da Birdie's Avatar
Horn Drill - Normal [Physical]
5PP/30%
The user stabs the target with a horn that rotates like a drill. The target faints instantly if this attack hits.

Another one-hit K.O. move, Horn Drill has evolved mechanically over time the same way Guillotine has. Like with Vice Grip and Guillotine, using Horn Attack and Horn Drill in tandem with one another during a Pokemon Contest results in a combo---as I said with the former moves, that's really a combo attack that'd be interesting to see added into the main battle system.

So, as you can guess, Horn Drill is learned exclusively by Pokemon with a horn, or in the case of Excadrill a drill. In Generation I it was a TM, though only a couple of extra Pokemon who couldn't learn it naturally already benefited from this such as Ponyta, Seel, Tauros, Dragonite, and Lapras. Some Pokemon who learned it via TM, like Ponyta and Seel, later obtained it as an Egg Move in future Generations, but some such as Tauros and Dragonite lost the ability to learn it after it was dropped as a TM, and only recently with the advent of the Virtual Console release of RBY is it possible to have ones who know this move in current games. I'm not sure if any strategies have opened up with them gaining access to this move, as like Guillotine among the OHKO moves there doesn't seem to be any decent strategies to pull off with it.

In the show, I don't think Horn Drill ever actually "killed" anyone till Clay's Excadrill used it in Black and White---and it only worked on Snivy. It didn't kill Ash's Roggenrola, but in this case this was due to the show establishing it knew Sturdy. Oh, and it actually induced evolution as well! Yeah, Black and White loved to have Ash's Pokemon evolve during Gym Battles for an easy win.

Tackle - Normal [Physical]
40/35PP/100%
A physical attack in which the user charges and slams into the target with its whole body.

Tackle needs no introduction. It's generally considered the most basic of all Pokemon moves, and a huge amount of Pokemon can learn it typically as their very first move. There are a few exceptions though where Pokemon learn it a bit later, but they're ones such as Magikarp, Feebas, and Burmy which are sort of positioned as "weak" and thus them not learning such a basic move for a few levels is a way for this to be highlighted.

Tackle has been learned by at least one Starter in every Generation---as I mentioned in my Pound entry Prinplup weirdly gets this while Piplup does not---with Generation V giving it to all three Starters. I guess this may be due to the fact this was the first Generation where you actually fought both rival Starters and they wanted to give them a standardized basic move, and along with this they also buffed Tackle from its original 35BP and 95% accuracy to 50BP and 100% accuracy. I guess Game Freak felt this was "too strong" as with Sun and Moon they went back and lowered it to 40BP, though the 100% accuracy stuck. Though it's worth noting that with Sun and Moon your Starter already has a STAB move right out of the gate making Tackle less important, so that may explain the decrease in attack power.

Tackle is also ubiquitous in the show, and the writers make liberal use of it with it being a more basic, variable attack whose power seems to adjust based on the size and strength of the Pokemon using it, as well as how "fired up" their Trainer is. It can be just as potent as any other move, which I kind of think works since it's not exactly a specialized action. A lot of Pokemon can use Tackle in the show who cannot learn it in the games, but once more I don't have an issue with that since it's such a basic action that you can easily picture any Pokemon using.

Body Slam - Normal [Physical]
85/15PP/100%
The user drops onto the target with its full body weight. This may also leave the target with paralysis.

Tackle's big brother, Body Slam was an extremely potent move upon its introduction with the same power and accuracy back then as it has now, which in Generation I made it pretty much one of the best moves you could have, both in-game and in multiplayer. It also has the chance to paralyze the opponent, though oddly enough Normal-type Pokemon were immune to this effect originally. Other than taking that weird exception away Body Slam has remained unchanged, and a solid move, though now it also does double damage and ensures a hit against Pokemon that have used Minimize.

Not a lot of Pokemon could naturally learn this move in Generation I, though Snorlax could and it was easily the most powerful user of the move---and with the added STAB, this pretty much became Snorlax's bread-and-butter. It was a TM08 though, and one that a ton of Pokemon could learn making it quite valuable and one you'd probably want to use on your main attacker. You got it as early as the S.S. Anne, but due to the fact the ship left after completing it it was possible that you could permanently lose out on this TM for good if you didn't know about the trick to keep Anne docked. It returned as a Move Tutor in the remakes, once more giving a large variety of Pokemon access to a useful move though it was pushed all the way up to the Sevii Islands post-game. Nowadays it isn't as widely available, but a decent amount of Pokemon learn it either as a natural move or through breeding.

Wrap - Normal [Physical]
15/20PP/90%
A long body, vines, or the like are used to wrap and squeeze the target for four to five turns.

Electrode, Diglett, Nidoran, Mankey...oh, wait, wrong "rap". And yes, that's pretty much all I remember.

Wrap is another partial trapping move that functions like Bind, except when it was introduced in Generation I it had a slightly higher accuracy and was learned by some more deadlier and common Pokemon, the biggest offender being Tentacool and Tentacruel, so it became a bit more notorious. Surprisingly its biggest use was in the competitive scene where it was downright destructive on Dragonite, and due to their being a lack of solid Dragon-type moves was pretty much its best attack. Agility + Wrap was a deadly combo at the time. Nowadays, like Bind, Wrap isn't really anything special and easy to ignore. The two moves are basically the same though Wrap still wins out with slightly better accuracy.

Wrap and Bind are virtually identically mechanically, though only one Pokemon---Heatmor---can currently have both. Game Freak secretly loves Heatmor as we've established earlier in this thread. Wrap though seems to be exclusive to Pokemon with tentacles, or serpentine bodies, while Bind can be used by bulkier Pokemon who simply use brute force to constrict the opponent. The most iconic Gen I user, Dragonite, probably only has it since it evolves from serpentine Pokemon but I guess it could use its tail, or perhaps those weird feelers on its head? Oh, the moves are so similar that one episode of the dub had a Steelix use Wrap, when the original had it use Bind.

Gif. dude, post the one of Clemont getting wrapped by an Arbok and loving it, will you?

Take Down - Normal [Physical]
90/20PP/85%
A reckless, full-body charge attack for slamming into the target. This also damages the user a little.

As mentioned before Jump Kick had a weird "glitch" in Generation I where the recoil damage was a meager 1 HP, so thus Take Down is our first real recoil move with legitimate risk involved---you'll take 25% of the damage inflicted to the opponent. And that's if you even hit them, as the accuracy is only 85%. Thus, as you can easily see, Body Slam was easily the superior move despite 5 less power for negating both of those risks.

But, of course, being Generation I you didn't always have that choice. Some Pokemon learned Take Down, others learned Body Slam, and there was only 1 TM available for each---if you gave one Pokemon Body Slam, the other would likely have to settle for Take Down. With proper planning you could of course make it so you caught a Pokemon who learned Body Slam thus opening up the TM to be used on another, but most kids playing at the time didn't really plan ahead and probably slapped Body Slam on the first Pokemon they could. Thus, Take Down it was. As much as I appreciate the QoL changes when it comes to moves, replaying Red and Blue recently reminded me of how in the old days you really had to think carefully about which moves you gave your Pokemon to get the optimal experience.

Unlike Body Slam, Take Down did not become a move tutor move in the remakes. Its distribution as a natural and Egg Move is a bit higher than Body Slam, with quite a long list of Pokemon learning it. It could use an increase in accuracy since it already has a risk involved with the recoil however.
balladofwindfishes
(10-09-2017, 06:23 PM)
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The user stabs the target with a horn that rotates like a drill.

This always bothered me, since the only Pokemon in Gen I with a spinnable horn was Rhydon. It made me wonder if Nidoking's or Rapidash's horns could spin and it was just well concealed. Now a days, I guess maybe the entire Pokemon's body was supposed to spin while doing it?
TriggerShy
Member
(10-09-2017, 07:44 PM)
Horn Drill





Tackle



Body Slam





Wrap





Take Down





The Shadow Knight
Member
(10-09-2017, 09:03 PM)
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If I recall correctly the reason Body Slam can't paralyze normal types in gen 1 is because it was impossible for a move of any type to inflict status effect on a pokemon of the same type.
This quirk was well known for types like Fire and Electric but that it also applies to Normal was only discovered relatively recently by gen 1/2 pokemon hacker Crystal_.

People had been playing with the wrong mechanics for many, many years on simulators.
Nocturnowl
Member
(10-09-2017, 09:15 PM)
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Fury attack is the fearow special, I associate it heavily with the Gen 1 brown birds...except Pidgey of course who had no such fury.

Tackle, the move that you didn't want your starter to have in the early outings due to the slight inaccuracy compared to the others like scratch and pound.
Then became the move you DID want the starter to have when GF buffed that move.

I always imagined rolling kick as Hitmonlee doing a forward roll with an outstretched foot at the end, roundhouse makes so much more sense.

Body Slam is a top move.
clemenx
Banned
(10-09-2017, 09:17 PM)
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Lolol nice final gif, TriggerShy.

Fuck Beldum
Salvadora
Member
(10-09-2017, 09:26 PM)
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Watch Da Birdie (and TriggerShy) well done making a thread documenting every Pokemon move nearly as entertaining as the one about the Pokemon themselves.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-09-2017, 09:32 PM)
Watch Da Birdie's Avatar
Oh, shit I forgot something important about Horn Drill---that rumor that there was a small chance in Smash Brothers Goldeen could use it against you for an instant K.O.!

Originally Posted by Boss Doggie

In PMD Fury Attack is pretty useful.

All those multi-hit moves were pretty OP in that game. I remember Bullet Seed on my Turtwig in Explorers wrecked shit.

Originally Posted by balladofwindfishes

This always bothered me, since the only Pokemon in Gen I with a spinnable horn was Rhydon. It made me wonder if Nidoking's or Rapidash's horns could spin and it was just well concealed. Now a days, I guess maybe the entire Pokemon's body was supposed to spin while doing it?

At least in the show, Goldeen and Seaking were shown to be able to rotate theirs too, which works because their horns are clearly separate from their heads. The other ones, yeah, not so much.

I also forgot to note that bizarrely the Tyrantum line can learn Horn Drill, despite not having a notable appendage that makes sense with it.

Originally Posted by The Shadow Knight

If I recall correctly the reason Body Slam can't paralyze normal types in gen 1 is because it was impossible for a move of any type to inflict status effect on a pokemon of the same type.
This quirk was well known for types like Fire and Electric but that it also applies to Normal was only discovered relatively recently by gen 1/2 pokemon hacker Crystal_.

People had been playing with the wrong mechanics for many, many years on simulators.

I knew that about stuff like Thunder Wave not working on Electric-types, but the idea of a Normal Pokemon just...shrugging off? a body slam's paralysis capabilities is odd.

Originally Posted by clemenx

Lolol nice final gif, TriggerShy.

Fuck Beldum

That Beldum in Diamond and Pearl was absolutely vicious to catch. I remember spending thirty minutes trying with a Drifloon to avoid the recoil, though eventually it ends up using Struggle and dies anyway.
The Shadow Knight
Member
(10-09-2017, 09:36 PM)
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Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie



I knew that about stuff like Thunder Wave not working on Electric-types, but the idea of a Normal Pokemon just...shrugging off? a body slam's paralysis capabilities is odd.

In gen 1 the bit of code responsible for this effect didn't care what type it was looking at. Lick cannot paralyze Ghosts either.
It only considers the typing of the move being used and the target and doesn't care about what type of status it is inflicting at all.

EDIT: This was discovered in 2014... Huh, that long ago already.
God Dayumm
Banned
(10-09-2017, 09:47 PM)
Which was the hilariously annoying spam move in Pokemon Statdium, Wrap or Fire Spin? or both
balladofwindfishes
(10-09-2017, 10:13 PM)
balladofwindfishes's Avatar

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

At least in the show, Goldeen and Seaking were shown to be able to rotate theirs too, which works because their horns are clearly separate from their heads. The other ones, yeah, not so much.

I also forgot to note that bizarrely the Tyrantum line can learn Horn Drill, despite not having a notable appendage that makes sense with it.

As a kid, I thought Horn Drill on Nidoking caused him unbelievable pain every time he used it, because I imagined his horn dislodging from his head skin and spinning.

I'm not sure if that's better than the mental image of Nidoking slamming into something horn first and then rapidly spinning in the air.

Originally Posted by God Dayumm

Which was the hilariously annoying spam move in Pokemon Statdium, Wrap or Fire Spin? or both

Fire Spin had a cool animation in Stadium. It was the same as Flamethrower, but the animation played from the start (versus Flamethrower, which only played during the "action" part of the animation) and slightly faster, so the flames seem to go all over (since every Pokemon in Stadium had overly dramatic animations)

Man, Stadium Animations were cool. Stadium is still my head canon for how moves look and how Gen I and II Pokemon animate.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-10-2017, 12:30 AM)
Watch Da Birdie's Avatar
Even Aerodactly spinning around like a madman?
balladofwindfishes
(10-10-2017, 01:48 AM)
balladofwindfishes's Avatar
Especially Aerodactyl spinning around like a madman

The cries from those games are also the canon cries in my head. The ones in the real games are just abstract representations of what they're supposed to sound like.
Nocturnowl
Member
(10-10-2017, 01:59 AM)
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Originally Posted by God Dayumm

Which was the hilariously annoying spam move in Pokemon Statdium, Wrap or Fire Spin? or both

Both, along with bind.
I still remember the actual last time I played that game, I went into gym leader castle and my Primeape got repeatedly wrapped into near death, missed the only attack he was allowed and then got wrapped again.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-10-2017, 04:32 AM)
Watch Da Birdie's Avatar
Thrash - Normal [Physical]
120/10PP/100%
The user rampages and attacks for two to three turns. The user then becomes confused.

Thrash with its 90BP in Generation I and perfect accuracy could've been a great move, but it comes with a major drawback---once you use it, your Pokemon is forced to continue to use it for a few turns and is unable to switch out. Furthermore, after using it, you end up confused. To be honest against a single Pokemon it has merit, you could probably knock them out causing the battle to end and avoiding the confusion, but in a full battle it's a bit too risky. And needless to say, it's quite easy for a human opponent to set up on you by switching to a Ghost-type to avoid the attack completely, or a Rock or Steel-type to tank it.

It's been updated a bit overtime, its power risen to 120BP and reducing the average time stuck in it from 3-4 turns to 2-3 turns, so overall an improvement. There of course are now plenty of moves which are a bit more viable without the risk of getting stuck with one Pokemon and up getting confused, so these didn't really help it in the overall scheme of things. It might be fun to use it in the main game though. For the first few generations getting frozen and other instances where the user would be unable to attack merely paused the move, and it'd resume after the status effect was gone. In Generation V, now such effects end the move, so it'd probably be possible to form a strategy where you have a Pokemon use Thrash, then have a partner use a move to end it before the confusion sets in, but that's more trouble than its worth. Furthermore if it's the turn where the confusion would have occurred, which is something you can't know for sure, then the Pokemon still ends up confused.

Even though it really isn't a popular move, quite a lot of Pokemon can have it. Most of them are Pokemon who are more violent in nature, or based on animals you'd expect to use such tactics, but there are some oddities here and there which you have to think over a bit. Cubone probably learns this because it's acting out over having lost its mother. Jynx learns this not because it's angry, but probably with the intent that it's dancing wildly---though only in Generation I. And Piloswine learns it because it can't see shit. There's one Pokemon with an interesting niche with this move, and that's Spinda. Outside of Smeargle + a Sketch Thrash, Spinda is the only Own Tempo Pokemon who can use this attack without worrying about the confusion. It's still trapped till it finishes the attack, mind you, and Spinda sucks so this niche is extremely small and pointless.

In the show, this move has only been used by the Mankey line despite so many Pokemon knowing it in the games.

Double Edge - Normal [Physical]
120/15PP/100%
A reckless, life-risking tackle. This also damages the user quite a lot.

The Japanese name of this attack is far cooler, "Life Risking Tackle". As a kid I didn't really get what idiom Double Edge was referencing, so it just sounded kind of weird and not like the powerful move it actually was. And at the time, it was pretty powerful, with 100BP plus perfect accuracy---it pretty much was superior to Take Down in every way, though of course the larger damage meant that you'd take more recoil in exchange. It's been buffed over the years jumping to 120BP, though at the same time its recoil damage was raised from 1/4th the damage caused to 1/3rd amping up the risk. Of course with the Rock Head Ability some Pokemon can make good use of this move, as every Rock Head Pokemon but Tyrantrum can learn it.

The Pokemon who learn this move, and there are a lot of them, don't see to really follow any pattern. Generation I gave it to Snorlax, Jigglypuff, and Chansey, which I guess because they have high HP was meant to offset the recoil? Not that Chansey and Jigglypuff would be doing much damage to get recoiled though, but I guess Wigglytuff with STAB and a decent Attack could kind of pull it off? It's since been given overtime to many more imposing Pokemon, though an odd number of cute Pokemon learn it which don't seem like they'd be ones to risk their lives. Stuff like Sunflora and Numel.

Here's something interesting, it was a TM in Generation I and later a Move Tutor in Generation III, and the list of Gen I Pokemon who can't learn it is interesting---every Pokemon capable of learning TMs can have it EXCEPT Gastly, Haunter (Gengar can, though), Grimer, Muk, Koffing, Weezing, Voltorb, and Electrode. Is this supposed to imply they have "no life" to risk? A little bit of perhaps unintentional lore I found amusing. Looking at some future Pokemon who learned it, I noticed a lack of many other inorganic and possibly "artificial" Pokemon, bar some exceptions like Porygon.

Tail Whip - Normal [Status]
30PP/100%
The user wags its tail cutely, making opposing Pokémon less wary and lowering their Defense stat.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Tail Whip, the user's Attack stat rises one stage.

Sometimes as we've seen the localization makes moves a bit less violent sounding in order to appease moral guardians. At other times it seems they wanted to make the game's more marketable to the 90's boy market they were mainly trying to appeal to so gave them "attitude", as is the case with Tail Whip. It sounds like a physically violent attack, but as later in-game descriptions made clear it's simply the Pokemon adorably wagging their tail to make the opponent lower their guard. The original Japanese name, "Tail Wag", made this far more obvious.

As you can imagine, Tail Whip is learned by many cute Pokemon with notable tails---though because Pokemon don't lose moves upon evolution, sometimes this falls apart. Take Blastoise who can have Tail Whip, despite being physically imposing and having a far stubbier tail than Squirtle and Wartortle. The weirdest example in the opposite direction is the fact that Rhyhorn has no visible tail, but gets Tail Whip, and then despite the fact Rhydon does have a notable tail it's so not a cute Pokemon you could see wagging it around like a cute animal. Not as many Pokemon learn this move as I thought, it's popular but not as hugely widespread like you would think.

From my understanding, generally moves that only lower an opponent's stat aren't considered useful in the competitive scene---you want this to be a secondary effect of a damaging move. While you waste a turn lowering the opponent's Defense they can pull off a ton of different options to render that moot, or they can simply switch out to negate the debuff. Most in-game players probably don't bother with this either beyond using it in some of the initial Starter battles to get an edge over the opponent, but it's one of those moves the CPU sure likes to use to waste your time.

Poison Sting - Poison [Physical]
15/35PP/100%
The user stabs the target with a poisonous stinger. This may also poison the target.

One of the most basic Poison-type moves in the game, Poison Sting does meager damage but is more valuable for its ability to cause the poison status effect. Among the attacks that can cause such an effect in Generation I it's the least reliable with only a 20% chance (now 30%), and it's one of those moves where the CPU always seems to get lucky with it. In battle poisoning in Generation I wasn't too bad, because it was only 1/16th your HP back then instead of 1/8th, but outside of battle it could be a nightmare as your Pokemon slowly died. It took quite a while to reach healing points back then, and you didn't have a ton of inventory space to always be stocked up with Antidotes. Your Pokemon was probably fucked, and if you were in the middle of a long dungeon with no easy way out this could easily be the killing blow for you. Needless to say, this has been the death of many Pokemon in a Nuzlocke.

But, Game Freak nerfed poisoning over the years. Well, as a status effect, it's still fairly potent and useful, but as a hazard during the main game outside of battle Generation IV saw it remove the ability to faint your Pokemon outside of battle when they reached 1 HP, healing them instead, and now they don't take any poison damage when walking around whatsoever. You know, being poisoned wasn't necessarily "fun", but it was pretty thrilling walking around as the screen flashed wondering if your Pokemon would make it long enough to get through the dungeon.

So, when it comes to the Poison-type, there's pretty much two groups of them---those based on natural poison, and those based on man-made poison. Both have existed since the beginning of Pokemon, and while they don't have any solid differences in terms of mechanics it does effect little bits of lore and such here and there. Poison Sting is an example of the former, a natural poison, and thus all the Poison-type Pokemon who can learn it are those based on animals and plants. There's a couple of non-Poison Pokemon who learn it, but they make sense---Gligar is known for being poisonous despite its Type, Wurmple can evolve possibly into a Poison-type Pokemon, and Vespiquen and Joltik are based on bugs who are often associated with venom. And then there's Sandshrew and Sandslash. Huh? Well, they're based on the pangolin, which isn't necessarily poisonous though some can emit a noxious gas. But Pokemon sometimes borrow from multiple animals, and there are some shrews who are poisonous, and the echidna is known to coat its spines in poison, so that's probably the idea.

Twineedle - Bug [Physical]
25/20PP/100%
The user stabs the target with a poisonous stinger. This may also poison the target.

Twineedle was pretty much the best Bug-type move in Generation I. That's not saying much. Furthermore it was exclusive to the rather unimpressive Beedrill, and this resulted in Psychic-types running rampant as this was the only counter basically whatsoever. Maybe if some stronger Pokemon learned it 50BP (since it hits twice) and a 20% chance to poison would've been useful, but it was stuck on Beedrill all the way till Generation V when Escavalier got it. By the time other Pokemon got it, there were far better options available.

It's been seven Generations, and Twineedle is still the only non-Poison move with the inherent ability to poison the foe. Fling, Nature Power, and Psycho Shift can as well under certain circumstances, but it's kind of weird we haven't seen more of this. A Fire-type move that can poison the foe by making them choke on smoke? Originally only the second hit had a chance of poison, but now both hits have an equal chance. Because it was the only move that could poison Pokemon that wasn't Poison-type, this led to a perhaps unintentional consequence where it was the only method of poisoning Steel-type Pokemon in Generation II. Now that can only be achieved through the use of Corrosion, with Twin Needle no longer having that niche. Maybe it should've kept it?
CazTGG
Member
(10-10-2017, 06:48 AM)
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Gen I is full of such baffling decisions, perhaps none as infamous as the implementation of Bug-type moves and Pokémon. Weak moves like Leech Life, poor type combinations that made many weak to the type they're supposed to counter (Beedrill) and abysmal stats that make them almost non-viable in the main game, let alone competitively.
Toxi
Banned
(10-10-2017, 06:52 AM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy

AAAAHHHHHHHDJDTLWJDOF
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(10-10-2017, 07:13 AM)
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As a kid I loved the Beldum line, so when I got Emerald for my birthday I caught a Beldum on my Sapphire cart and traded it over to start my Emerald game with. I was so excited...

until I discovered Beldum knows Take Down, and only Take Down, until it evolves at level 20
unknownstranger
Member
(10-10-2017, 07:39 AM)
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Pure stat lowering moves are only really used competitively on Pokemon that can trap (IE Shadow Tag and Arena Trap) to kill specific targets. Dugtrio sometimes carry Screech to kill Chansey because it's too bulky with Eviolite and can either kill with Seismic Toss or stall out with Toxic. Gothielle can use Charm to stall against physical targets enough to either boost with Calm Mind or just kill them right away (her sets with Charm usually come with Rest to survive better).
archreaper93
Member
(10-10-2017, 07:42 AM)

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

Pound - Normal [Physical]
40/35PP/100%
The target is physically pounded with a long tail, a foreleg, or the like.

Pound is the first move by Index Number and one of the most basic attacks in the series. When it was first introduced Stadium described it as a "more powerful" alternative to Tackle, but that's no longer true since Gen V when Tackle got a boost to 50, and later in Gen VII down to 40. So, now, Pound and Tackle are basically the same. Both function as a "starter move" to give to early game Pokemon and hatched Pokemon, but otherwise have no function beyond that and are usually the first to be overwritten.

When Pound was introduced in Gen I, it was somewhat of a "cute" move and mainly belonged to "feminine" Pokemon such as Clefairy, Jigglypuff, and Chansey, though Grimer and Drowzee were the oddballs who could also learn it. It's since been picked up by a larger variety of Pokemon since Gen III, including Starter Pokemon such as Treecko and Piplup (though oddly Prinplup has Tackle), though it's still less common than the more prolific Tackle.

In the show, Ash's Treecko used Pound as its main offensive attack and used it throughout his evolutions as well---while in the games Pound is weak, I think it's fair to say that the show has the leeway to factor in the physical elements of the Pokemon using the move. So, regardless of how low Pound's BP is in the games, Sceptile whacking people with its big ass, well, ass-tree would definitely hurt!

Pound is one of Jigglypuff's Special Moves in Smash Brothers, his neutral in Smash 64 and his side in Melee, and is a surprisingly useful move due to allowing Jigglypuff to recover horizontally by quite a bit!

Pretty sure it also does a lot of shield damage, like Marth's Shield Breaker.
Flying Fish
Junior Member
(10-10-2017, 07:45 AM)

Originally Posted by TriggerShy


This is a tragic situation in which the poor trainer did not have a Master Ball. Remember kids, always keep a master ball handy!
TriggerShy
Member
(10-10-2017, 08:04 AM)
Thrash



Double-Edge



Tail Whip





Poison Sting





Twineedle

archreaper93
Member
(10-10-2017, 08:10 AM)

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

The Elemental Punches

The Elemental Punches---Fire Punch, Ice Punch, and Thunder Punch---are three very iconic moves introduced in Generation 1, and are still popular today. It's easy to see why considering each of them have a nice balance of power, accuracy, and an added status effect, and being TMs in Gen II and later Move Tutor Moves in every subsequent Generation (bar Gen VII currently...) have led to them becoming a staple for many Pokemon by providing them useful coverage. The majority of Pokemon with usable arms (and a few exceptions) can learn at least one of them through the Move Tutor, with many learning two or even three. One of my favorite Pokemon to battle with, Medicham, is one such Pokemon giving it a ton of versatility. Since they're Move Tutor moves now mainly, this means they see a lot of use in the post-game and competitive scene more than the scenario though.

In Generation I however, they didn't have that same oomph as only four Pokemon could learn them---Hitmonchan could learn all three, while Magmar, Electabuzz, and Jynx picked up their respective Elemental Punch and, thus, could be seen as their "signature move". This led to Jynx sort of being seen as a counterpart to Magmar and Electabuzz, which continued in Gen II with all three getting similar Baby Pokemon, but ended with Gen IV giving the latter evolutions while poor Jynx got nothing. This is probably due to Game Freak wanting to do very little with Jynx given the controversy surrounding it. More Pokemon can learn them naturally nowadays, though they're still somewhat uncommon, and quite a few who do learn them naturally require the use of Heart Scales such as Dragonite.

For the first three Generations, they were Special-moves (for those of you who jumped into the franchise with Diamond and Pearl, in the old days the Physical/Special split was determined by Type) and thus were primarily used as coverage moves by Special Attackers such as Gengar and Alakazam. Come Generation IV, however, and then they became useful for Physical Attackers such as Medicham and Hitmonchan, who could finally put them to good use. As Special already had the equally useful, and slightly more powerful, Flamethrower, Ice Beam, and Thunderbolt, this made sense, though unfortunately some Pokemon such as Alakazam could not learn those moves and relied on the Elemental Punches for such coverage prior to the Physical/Special Split.

Fire Punch - Fire [Physical]
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with a fiery fist. This may also leave the target with a burn.

Fire Punch is the first of the Elemental Punches, and associated with Magmar---though it has since become a natural move of the Electabuzz family perhaps to suggest a relationship between the two. Fire Punch actually isn't learned by too many Fire-type Pokemon naturally, with currently only three Fire-type families gaining it though level up, and two more through breeding. Despite the fact it could be seen as "Fire/Fighting the move", only Blaziken learns it without additional help.

Well, there's not much else to say about Fire Punch---it's a punch that engulfs the target's fist on fire! Though I don't have any proof, I believe it's the Elemental Punch the least used for coverage since there's plenty of other ways to hurt Ice, Steel, and Grass-type Pokemon.

Ice Punch - Ice [Physical]
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with an icy fist.This may also leave the target frozen.

Ice Punch is associated with Jynx, though Elekid can pick it up through breeding making it the only one of the original "Elemental Punchers" who can learn all three. There's not a ton of Ice-type Pokemon, so not surprisingly the list of Ice-type Pokemon who can learn it naturally is rather short. It wasn't till Gen IV that Abomasnow picked it up, and then after that it wasn't till the recent Crabominable.

But, that aside, Ice Punch is perhaps the most useful of the Elemental Punches due to being one of the most effective ways to deal with Dragon-type Pokemon, and the additional bonus of freezing the opponent is always nice especially in Generation I where getting frozen pretty much was an instant loss. Since Ice Punch has 10% chance of freezing the opponent, the same chance as basically everything else bar Tri Attack (lower) and Nature Power when used in the right climate, there's really no better alternative if you want to freeze the opponent in terms of probability. With Fire Punch and Thunder Punch, if you're using them for their additional effects you have better options like Scald and Thunder Wave, but no such option exists with freezing the opponent beyond moves with simply more attack.

Ice Punch to me is the coolest (no pun) Elemental Punch, only because it's cool to visualize ice forming around a fist and then shattering into the opponent. There was a rather cool episode in Diamond and Pearl where Ash had his Buizel learn to utilize it by punching a waterfall at rapid speeds, and I thought that was a cool and somewhat logical way to show how you'd teach a Pokemon such a move. It's also the Elemental Punch I used the most with my Medicham.

Oh, somewhat infamously, the ORAS website advertised Blaziken being able to learn this (and said picture is still the page image on Bulbapedia!) and then offered an apology. Hah! Showing it fighting Flygon of all things almost felt like purposeful trolling on their part.

Thunder Punch
75/15PP/100%
The target is punched with an electrified fist. This may also leave the target with paralysis.

And finally there's Thunder Punch, Electabuzz's trademark punch---though, like with Electabuzz and Fire Punch, the Magmar family is now capable of naturally learning it. Remember how few Fire-types learned Fire Punch naturally, and even fewer Ice-types learned Ice Punch? Well, Thunder Punch is even more sparse, with only three Electric families learning it, and that's only thanks to Xurkitree's introduction in Gen VII. Even when adding in breeding, all you get is the Pikachu line.

But Thunder Punch is another good coverage move, this time for Fire-type Pokemon as quite a large amount of them are capable of using it and it's basically their only way in many cases to deal with Water-type Pokemon. Anyone who used Typhlosion in G/S probably taught it Thunder Punch with their TM, and actually every Fire-type Starter can learn it. Well, except Incineroar, but if it returns as a Move Tutor in USUM I can't imagine it getting skipped over since even Delphox can whip it out.

A point I want to make when considering a move such as Thunder Punch is how the anime should handle it---sure, it's an Electric-type attack, but there's clearly a physical punch involved so what should take priority? In one episode of Diamond and Pearl, an Electabuzz attacks a Gliscor with Thunder Punch and hurts it. Game purists might find this offensive, but to me it's perfectly allowable since the anime doesn't have to follow strict game logic for balance. Gliscor is a pretty light Pokemon, so it being punched and then just acting as if it didn't get hurt really wouldn't make much sense, would it? I recall the episode seemed to imply it was the punch more than the electricity hurting it, there wasn't really any sparks on Gliscor's body indicating it took electrical damage, so I was perfectly okay with it. I think such things should be considered first over simply going by the game rules 1:1, because sometimes that's silly.

Huh, really? I thought their 75 bp was considered too low in the metagame to be good (unless the Pokemon has Iron Fist, which makes them pretty decent), and stuff like Flare Blitz/Wild Charge/Volt Tackle/Icicle Crash were considered much better.

Originally Posted by NipplesAndToes23

In what games motherfucker? I've played quite a bit and you ain't getting a drag that early or running into dragons early. That shit seems even weaker than ember and thundershock.

Originally Posted by Dark Orchid

Same power with a "status" chance, but less PP. Only Dratini and Horsea get it early on, but that just seems more of a problem with there being so few Dragon types than anything else. Also yeah, wish they would place those two earlier for once, G/S is the only time you can get Dratini early.

Yeah, I noticed that you never ran into any Dragon types early game, probably because GameFreak recognized how good they were.

I remember finding them pretty early in X and Y though, since the Fairy type meant they weren't as overpowered.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-10-2017, 05:24 PM)
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The Elemental Punches are "superior" to those moves because the latter are pretty sparse---for some the Elemental Punches are the best they've got.

Wild Charge is the most common, with about 50 or so non-Electric Pokemon who can learn it, but many of them are quadrupedal and thus lack the Elemental Punches.
Flare Blitz is only learned by two non-Fire Pokemon, Solrock and Solgaleo.
No non Ice-type Pokemon currently learns Icicle Crash.

So, for many Physical Pokemon, the Elemental Punches are the best bet. Take my Medicham for instance---it has no Ice-type moves other than Ice Punch, so no other way to deal with Dragon-type Pokemon. Likewise when it comes to Flying-type Pokemon its best coverage other than that and Thunder Punch would be Rock Slide, which has 5~ less accuracy and only causes a flinch rather than a more useful status effect.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
(10-10-2017, 05:56 PM)
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Also Birdie I'll cop to being impatient but when do you feel you'll want to tackle the Alola reviews?
DrArchon
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(10-10-2017, 06:02 PM)
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Originally Posted by CazTGG

Gen I is full of such baffling decisions, perhaps none as infamous as the implementation of Bug-type moves and Pokémon. Weak moves like Leech Life, poor type combinations that made many weak to the type they're supposed to counter (Beedrill) and abysmal stats that make them almost non-viable in the main game, let alone competitively.

I'm convinced Bug types were purposefully shafted in gen 1 for the RPG aspects of the game, completely to the detriment of the monster raising aspects. They wanted to have jobber enemies at the start of the game that were never any good, and basically made Bug type the jobber type.
Garjon
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(10-10-2017, 06:30 PM)
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As a kid, I too didn't know what Double Edge referred to so I thought it meant 'one hit for you, one for me', which funnily enough is what the phrase hints at

On another note, it is incredible how many garbage moves there are that you are expected to use for the majority of the game. Wing Attack on Pidgeot, Acid for Gloom etc. Movesets were so sparse back then and I reckon this is why they are so much harder than the newer games - if you wanted to use your favourites, you were basically putting the game on a much higher difficulty.
balladofwindfishes
(10-10-2017, 06:35 PM)
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Poison Sting is the most annoying thing ever
Garjon
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(10-10-2017, 06:38 PM)
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Originally Posted by DrArchon

I'm convinced Bug types were purposefully shafted in gen 1 for the RPG aspects of the game, completely to the detriment of the monster raising aspects. They wanted to have jobber enemies at the start of the game that were never any good, and basically made Bug type the jobber type.

I'd agree but there are several strong bug types found later on, like Pinsir, Scyther and Venomoth. They just didn't bother to give them any good STAB attacks and this basically continued (aside from good moves bizzarely being made into signature moves for certain Pokemon) right up to Gen 4. Hell, even Grass had to make do with Razor Leaf in Gen 1 and almost all of Gen 2.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-10-2017, 09:19 PM)
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Speaking of Bug-type moves with odd distribution...

Pin Missile - Bug [Physical]
25/20PP/95%
Sharp spikes are shot at the target in rapid succession. They hit two to five times in a row.

Technically as a multi-hit move and with chance to inflict 14BP up to five times this could be considered the "strongest" Bug-type move in Generation I, though with only 85% accuracy in addition to the general mechanics involved with such moves you'd more likely do around 42BP on average. So, yeah, not exactly the most reliable move when going after Psychic-type Pokemon. Its distribution in Generation I was only given to a single Bug-type Pokemon, Beedrill, and...Jolteon. Jolteon could've done something with this move had it been a little stronger and more reliable, as it was on-par with Mewtwo in Speed, but sadly it wasn't worth it. Without the STAB Jolteon couldn't do much with it when combined with its below average Attack, and using Pin Missile would more or less waste a turn as the Psychic-type Pokemon in question pummeled you with, well, Psychic.

Except for Pineco as an Egg Move, Pin Missile wasn't learned by another Bug-type Pokemon till Skorupi got it in Generation IV, as did Spinarak finally and then Heracross a while later. Throughout its history it's been mainly associated with non-Bug Type Pokemon though, usually ones with needles or spikes such as Qwilfish, Cacnea, and Chespin. Chespin learning it boosted its profile, and Game Freak in Generation VI gave it a decent boost in both BP and accuracy since I guess they considered it too weak for a Starter Pokemon. It's still not an amazing attack, but I'm glad they buffed it if only a little.

Leer - Normal [Status]
30PP/100%
The user gives opposing Pokémon an intimidating leer that lowers the Defense stat.

If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Leer, the user's Attack stat rises one stage.

Tail Whip and Leer are more or less identical, but in terms of flavor they're polar opposites---Tail Whip is all about lowering the opponent's guard by looking cute, whereas Glare is all about intimidating them. Although, like the Ability Intimidate, you think this would lower their Attack as opposed to Defense since they'd likely put up their guard more so when scared, but, eh, don't think about it too much. There are many, many Pokemon who learn Leer and most of them are a bit more "ferocious" than those who learn Tail Whip, though many of them are still cute enough and tailed-enough to have learned Tail Whip if Game Freak decided upon that. I guess they kind of just flipped a coin for some of them. Like Tail Whip, you'll probably only use this in the initial Starter battle to gain an edge while the CPU will continue to use this to waste your time throughout the game.

As Bulbapedia points out, the Japanese name of this attack could be translated into "Glare", which was used by the localization for a completely different attack---Glare. The Japanese name of that move is a bit more specific as we'll see.

Bite - Dark [Physical]
60/25/100%
The target is bitten with viciously sharp fangs. This may also make the target flinch.

This attack was a Normal-type move in Generation I, but was updated into a Dark-type move (and had its chance of inflicting flinch raised from 10% to 30%) come Generation II. The move is kind of a "dirty technique" the Dark-type is known for, but not necessarily beyond the pale---plenty of more or less "nice" Pokemon learn it, so I imagine the switch to Dark-type was more out of balance than flavor. It gave many Pokemon a counter to the Psychic-type, though this didn't necessarily work as planned. For one, Dark-type moves were always Special-based till Generation IV, and as most Psychic Pokemon had high Special Defense this reduced Bite's effectiveness somewhat than if it had stayed a Physical-based attack. And from a lore standpoint, well, the fact that simply biting someone was now considered "special" the same way shooting a thunderbolt at them or blowing up their mind with psychic powers irked me as a kid. I really like the Generation IV Physical/Special split for that reason a lone, and it ended up helping Bite out.

Honestly Bite's a pretty great move still in the main game, due to having decent power, the chance of flinch, perfect accuracy, and many Pokemon learning it fairly early on---it seems every adventure I had at least one Pokemon carrying this move at one point or another and it's a great lead-in move for your first slot Pokemon to have. There weren't a lot of straight up power Dark-type moves early on, and only recently have they seen more of those type of attacks added, so Bite's carved out a nice and simply in-game niche for itself over the years. I don't imagine it really disappearing from in-game movesets anytime soon.

The show seems to go back and forth with this attack, sometimes they'll get really violent with it (why Pokemon Origins?) and actually have the Pokemon clamp down, other times they'll have the fangs glow and cut away. Sun and Moon's perhaps got the most interesting effect whenever Ash's Rockruff uses it, these strange glowing fangs appearing around its head like a halo almost and chomping down. But at the same time, there have been a few instances we've seen Rockruff actually bite down with its teeth and straight-up hurt Ash, but in these instances it's less the attack and more simply Rockruff acting out. Once more, I think the glowy effects may partially be censorship but also a way to make it more clear the Pokemon is using a specific technique and not simply a mundane, natural action it's capable of.

Growl - Normal [Status]
40PP/100%
The user growls in an endearing way, making opposing Pokémon less wary. This lowers their Attack stat.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Growl, the user's Defense stat raises one stage.

Like Tail Whip, here's another example of the localization possibly making the game more "90s boy friendly". The original name of this attack is basically "Cry", and later descriptions clarify that it's an endearingly cute cry, not the Pokemon angrily growling at the foe. Despite this, it seems a lot of the expanded media do have it used a bit more offensively, and it's interesting to note that Gen I's animation was a friendly musical note, while now it's far harsher noise lines, so it's as if the localization kind of changed how everyone pictured it including the Japanese.

Growl is our first "Sound" move, which has basically become Pokemon's most notable unofficial Type. Sound-based moves, a few which are coming up right after this suggesting this grouping may have been planned as early as Generation I, are moves that involve the use of sound. Generation III first introduced the idea of the category through the Ability Soundproof (and the scrapped Ability Cacophony which may have done the same thing) which blocked Sound-based moves, and as of Generation VI they now have the inherent Ability to hit through Substitute. Unfortunately there's no in-game way to know what move is a Sound-type move other than going by the name, but as Generation VII introduced a new move and a new Ability that effects them I imagine we'll see that soon enough. The jury's still out as to whether or not a "Sound-type" will actually occur, though it seems less and less likely the longer we go on in my opinion.

Roar - Normal [Status]
20PP
The target is scared off, and a different Pokémon is dragged out. In the wild, this ends a battle against a single Pokémon.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Roar, the user's Defense stat raises one stage.

Similar to Whirlwind, Roar is more or less the same except widely available due to the fact it's been a TM since Generation II---before that, though, it was only learned by Vulpix and Growlithe. Roar is more often used than Whirlwind due to its availability however if you had to choose between the two, which would you pick? The answer is Whirlwind. And there's one reason for this, as Sound-based move Roar does not work on Pokemon with Soundproof. In reality, this is not a huge deal---there's not a ton of Pokemon who are optimal with Soundproof, but part of Pokemon is all about setting the odds in your favor before the battle begins. If you can push the odds in your favor even a little, why not do it and be prepared for the oft-chance that you will end up against a Soundproof Pokemon?

But everyone knows about Roar due to the Legendary Beasts, who would love to use this in Generation II as soon as you think you had them trapped with Mean Look. In Fire Red and Leaf Green, if you see a Legendary Beast use this once they appear in the post-game you're screwed. There's a glitch in those games that causes them to disappear permanently. Ouch. Of course if you're playing in Generation III, you probably already picked all of them up from Pokemon Colosseum so no big deal. And as of Heart Gold and Soul Silver you have more options available when it comes to catching them easily, so Roar is less annoying. But, for those of you who grew up with Generation II, you probably never forgot the first time a Legendary Beast used this against you.
Toxi
Banned
(10-10-2017, 09:23 PM)
Leer is one of the weirder translations. When you hear "Leer", you generally think of something like perverted ogling.
TriggerShy
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(10-10-2017, 11:32 PM)
Pin Missile





Leer







Bite





Growl



Roar

Boogiepop
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(10-11-2017, 01:44 AM)
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Ah, I do recall trying to use pin-missile on my Jolteon in Gen I as the "best" choice for actually using the bug weakness of psychic types and... yeah, that just was not worth it, at all.

And yeah, at least to me, those Gen II changes on Bite raised its significance to me massively and is easily the most memorable move change into the franchise. Went from being a move I hardly remembered to a cool staple with that for me.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-11-2017, 05:41 AM)
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Bite is one of the best early moves in the game right up there with Razor Leaf. Seriously, flinching and Dark type?

Also doesn't Scary Face in Johto also use eye lasers?

And yeah Pin Missile in XY became MACROSS MISSILES

Originally Posted by Toxi

Leer is one of the weirder translations. When you hear "Leer", you generally think of something like perverted ogling.

I thought it meant some sort of snarkish smile but I still don't get how it reduces defense.
Toxi
Banned
(10-11-2017, 05:43 AM)

Originally Posted by Boss Doggie

I thought it meant some sort of snarkish smile but I still don't get how it reduces defense.

It puts the opponent off guard because they're freaked out by your creepy leering.
clemenx
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(10-11-2017, 05:44 AM)
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Yeah. Leer makes way more sense than Growl or Tail Whip.
Boss Doggie
all my loli wolf companions are so moe
(10-11-2017, 05:45 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

It puts the opponent off guard because they're freaked out by your creepy leering.

wouldn't it mean your enemy would raise their defense because they see your creepy face
megarockexe
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(10-11-2017, 06:12 AM)
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Originally Posted by Toxi

Leer is one of the weirder translations. When you hear "Leer", you generally think of something like perverted ogling.

I think this was one of the first times I heard "leer" in context.
webrunner
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(10-11-2017, 03:40 PM)
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Drampa used Fly
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
(10-11-2017, 07:53 PM)
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^^^
oh shit, you know I can actually see that being the case---I think that movie was popular in Japan?

Anyway, today we cover some sound moves, then we drop some acid.

Sing - Normal [Status]
15PP/55%
A soothing lullaby is sung in a calming voice that puts the target into a deep slumber.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Sing, the user's Speed stat raises one stage.

Sing is the first move that can cause the opponent to fall asleep, and it's another status effect that's been somewhat nerfed over the years. First of all, originally it could last up to seven turns (though Stadium balanced it a bit and made it three turns max) which could really ruin your day, and when your Pokemon woke up they were unable to act till the next turn. It's very possible you could find yourself stuck in an infinite sleep loop. Later Generations made it possible for the Pokemon to attack as soon as it woke up, and currently Sleep will only last a max of three turns. In some Generations switching out would actually reset the counter, so you could find yourself waiting even longer, but as of Generation VI that's no longer the case. Generation V was one such Generation where switching would reset the counter, and thus forcefully switching out an opponent's sleeping Pokemon could prove to be a useful strategy.

In the competitive scene, sleep can be a very useful status effect though perhaps with some caveats. Needless to say sending your foe to sleep can be absolutely devastating to their strategy as that Pokemon basically becomes useless unless they're carrying Sleep Talk, but you never know how long said Pokemon will remain asleep and thus there is some random element to it. Other status effects, such as paralysis, burn, and poison, are more of a "one-and-done" deal, as you've effectively lowered the opponent's Speed/Attack/HP, but there's no such long-term benefits with sleep. There's also quite a few sleep counters now, such as Abilities that negate it, and Sing as a Sound-based move has an extra hurdle to clear since it's blocked by Soundproof, as well as having rather low accuracy though if it hits sleep is 100% guaranteed. Most serious competitions have invoked a "sleep clause" where only one Pokemon per team can be inflicted with sleep at a time, excluding self-inflicted sleep via Rest, which I imagine "balances" out the possibility of just sending the entire opposing team to sleep and going to town.

I feel like Sing should've been called "Lullaby" (it's Sing in Japan too) to make the sleep element clearer, but most Pokemon fans know exactly what this move does thanks to Jigglypuff using it in the anime and in Super Smash Bros. to send folks to sleep. I think "Jigglypuff's Lullaby" was based on the original tune Sing played in RBY, but not an exact match? But that's become the trademark Sing sound for many. I was actually trying to see if there was a "Sing Throughout the Generations" video on Youtube showing what it sounded like in each game but no luck, nor has Bulbapedia got all the sounds up either. So I really don't know off the top of my head what it sounds like now. By the way, that Jigglypuff? After being absent from the show since early Hoenn it's made a reappearance in Sun and Moon, and there are rumors it may end up captured by Lillie thus finally becoming a "main character".

Anyway, Jigglypuff is the main user of this in popular media, but many other cute Pokemon can learn it such as Clefairy, Skitty, and recent Water Starter Popplio. Though it ultimately wouldn't matter due to being a Status move, I'm kind of surprised it didn't become a Fairy-type move since it's associated with Pokemon of that Type or in the Fairy Egg Group. Kricketune kind of breaks the mold as while not ugly, its "Sing" is less cute and I guess, uh, nightmarish DEEEDLE-DEEDLE-DEE-WOOO-WOOO. Also it's possible to get this move on Mega Glalie, though this involves obtaining a purified Snorunt with it in Pokemon XD and trading it up through three Generations. Is it worth it? Probably not, but seeing a demonic, bearded entity singing has to be good for a laugh.

Supersonic - Normal [Status]
20PP/55%
The user generates odd sound waves from its body that confuse the target.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Supersonic, the user's Speed rises one stage.

I guess it's time to talk about confusion? You know we had Thrash which caused it as a side-effect, but as Supersonic is the first move that directly causes it it's time for a proper introduction. Though confusion is usually considered a major status effect alongside sleep, poison, and such, it's actually in a different category as a "volatile" condition, one that lacks an icon and can be stacked. As volatile suggests, the status effect isn't permanent and will disappear when the Pokemon is switched out, or when the battle ends. That being said confusion is quite annoying as you'll either have to waste a turn switching out or take a chance and attack, which until Generation VII, was a 50% (now 60%) chance of the attack succeeding---or you hurting yourself and wasting a turn. Confusion lasts 1-4 turns, however only turns you select a move and pull it off count towards lowering it so you can't merely sleep it off with Rest, and if you're fully paralyzed that effectively wastes a turn recovering from it.

You might not know this, but the damage inflicted by confusion is actually based on the Pokemon's Attack, and the damage done is if said Pokemon was hit by a Typeless, non-critical 40BP Physical move. So, Physical-based Pokemon actually have a disadvantage when confused, and for Special-based Pokemon purposefully making one's Attack IV as low as possible is a viable anti-confusion precaution. Confusion wasn't used all that often in the competitive scene from what I gathered, being based on random chance, except when it came to Swagger. I'll talk more about Swagger when we get to that move, however.

Supersonic is one of the more "popular" confusion-inducing moves, but not for the player---oh no, the CPU loves to use this move to mess with you, and the fact that the Zubat, Tentacool, and Wingull lines carry it is a cruel-joke on the part of Game Freak. Except them to use this move all the time against you. Sure, you can run, but all three of them are also fairly fast Pokemon so that won't always work and you'll waste a turn regardless. Anyway Supersonic is basically "echolocation", and thus learned by bat-based Pokemon and those who utilize sound, though some users are kind of odd. I guess seagulls do make sound, but why does Wingull get it specifically? Do jellyfish/squid creatures use it explaining while Tentacool gets it? I really do think Game Freak in some cases just picked the most annoying Pokemon they could find to give it to. Oddly enough despite it being a move you'd associate with bat-based Pokemon, Woobat doesn't learn it naturally, only as an Egg Move. Not sure why this is since it is said to use echolocation like the other bats, but I guess debuting in a Zubat-free region Game Freak finally wanted to give us a break?

Sonic Boom - Normal [Special]
20PP/90%
The target is hit with a destructive shock wave that always inflicts 20 HP damage.

A move which has been ruined by memes, you'll either have the Guile Theme playing in your head or think of that horrid abomination of a Sonic game...I'm of course talking about Sonic CD, in which "Sonic Boom" was the theme song.

Sonic Boom is the first "fixed damage" move, always taking away 20HP from the opponent regardless of Type, Special Defense, or any other factors---besides its imperfect accuracy, this is one of the most predictable moves you can use. In Generation I it could even hurt Ghost-type Pokemon, though that's no longer the case. Early game, this move is fairly powerful when Pokemon don't have a lot of HP but as the journey goes on you'll be using it less and less as your other moves will prove to be more effective, though it can still find a use when it comes to catching Pokemon as a way to deal chip damage without accidentally fainting them. It's banned however in "Little Cup" competitions, including in-game ones such as Pokemon Stadium and Battle Revolution, because 20HP can be absolutely deadly when you're up against Level 1-5 Pokemon and not very fair.

Though a sonic boom is the result of something moving faster than the speed of sound, it's not a Sound-based move. But I guess this makes sense since it's not the sound that does the damage necessarily, it's the shockwave. In Generation I it was learned by the two "mechanical" Pokemon Magnemite and Voltorb, the latter which ended up being the fastest Pokemon once it evolved into Electrode and thus the most likely to cause a sonic boom, and since has been learned by a few other Pokemon, such as Yanma whose wings are said to emit powerful shockwaves and Buizel, who can use its tails to launch shockwaves much like Guile can. Once more the fact it's not a Sound-based move is highlighted by the fact prominent Sound-based Pokemon such Exploud and Chimecho cannot learn it. The two Pokemon who learn it via breeding, Spinarak and Munna, are kind of oddballs here though.

Disable
20PP/100%
For four turns, this move prevents the target from using the move it last used.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Disable, all of the user's lowered stats are reset.

The Japanese name of this attack is "Kanashibari", which is the Japanese term used to refer to sleep paralysis. If you've spent any time in GAF's "Creepy Story" threads, you know quite a few people suffer from this condition which leads to one waking up more or less conscious, but with the inability to move---traditionally attributed to a ghost or demon sitting on one's chest---and often hallucinations follow. I used to horribly suffer these as did my mom, waking up in the middle of the night screaming in terror. I've since learned the best method to get around them is to focus on one body part when you feel it coming on, and it's been a few years since I've had a serious night terror issue. But, needless to say, the generic localized name of the move removes that neat little element.

I always associated this move with Drowzee since I remember it using it the most in Red and Blue, which is quite fitting since as a Pokemon based on a creature that's said to steal dreams it could be seen as the best user of "Sleep Paralysis", the type of creature who in superstition would cause such a phenomenon. Likewise Darkrai learns it being the Nightmare Pokemon and all, and many of the other natural users are somewhat creepy Pokemon or those with occult powers. Through breeding you get some weird examples however, like Seel and Horsea, but others make sense if you think it through---Kecleon isn't creepy, but it could stand on your chest invisibly without your knowledge. Likewise as a Pokemon prominent at night Venonat could easily spread some paralyzing powder. Anyway, from a lore standpoint, this is a pretty fun move to imagine the reasoning behind each Pokemon using it.

Disable has the fairly unique property of temporarily disabling a Pokemon from using one of its moves---originally in Generation I this was random, but now it's the last move they used. Though you can switch out to get around it, this move has interesting properties if used in tandem with a trapping move or Ability as it's possible you could take away the opponent's only way of countering you. But also you're wasting a valuable move slot with Disable, so in practice I don't think folks actually make use of it since simply having another coverage move is probably more preferable in the long run. Furthermore, the opponent would have to use said move first before you could Disable it, and if it's the counter to the Pokemon with Disable you might die before you even get to activate your strategy.

How long Disable lasts has jumped around through the Generations, but has currently settled down at 4 turns, a turn subtracted whenever you attempt an attack. Its accuracy has also greatly risen over the years, from 55% to 100%. Generation I was perhaps its high-point however, as the limited moves at the time meant it could be fairly destructive, and it was another move the CPU seemed to enjoy using to mess with you. Losing out on a move randomly could very well leave you without a single useful attack, especially early on.

Acid - Poison [Special]
40/30PP/100%
The opposing Pokémon are attacked with a spray of harsh acid. This may also lower their Sp. Def stat.

Acid was the second strongest Poison-type attack in Generation I, and the only "attack" that didn't poison the foe. Instead it had a 1/3 chance of lowering their Defense instead, likely representing how various acids can eat through certain substances in real life. Including various metals, though Steel-type Pokemon are immune to this---I think it'd be interesting if this move didn't hurt Steel-type Pokemon, but still lowered their Defense. After all, its Japanese name is "Corrosive Liquid", and eventually we got an Ability called "Corrosion" that allowed Steel-type to be poisoned.

This ultimately wouldn't have mattered through as Steel-type Pokemon are mainly Physically defensive, and Acid as of Generation IV now has a 10% chance of lowering Special Defense. This was due to Acid becoming a Special move, thus using it to lower a Pokemon's Defense would've been somewhat counterproductive. Personally I think from a lore standpoint Defense made far more sense, eating away at the Pokemon's "shell" whereas Special Defense is usually a more abstract from of protection, and they could've kept Acid as a Physical move. We have plenty of moves which easily could be Physical or Special and are tossed in one category or the other, so I wish Game Freak would've thought this over and looked at how this move is utilized and how Acid would physically effect a Pokemon by eating away at them.

Anyway though one may associate acid with man-made pollution and such, this is another Poison-type attack which is associated with "natural poison", more or less meant to represent digestive acid I imagine. While it was limited to Poison-type Pokemon in Generation I, the Grass/Poison Pokemon sort of being the trademark bearers, non-Poison Pokemon have since learned it but those you could imagine having some sort of powerful stomach acid. Interestingly despite the "Corrosive Liquid" = "Corrosion" aspect I pointed out earlier, the Salandit line who have Corrosion cannot learn Acid through any means.
Dantrist
Member
(10-11-2017, 08:11 PM)
Dantrist's Avatar

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

Disable
20PP/100%
For four turns, this move prevents the target from using the move it last used.
If powered up by a Normalium Z into Z-Disable, all of the user's lowered stats are reset.

The Japanese name of this attack is "Kanashibari", which is the Japanese term used to refer to sleep paralysis. If you've spent any time in GAF's "Creepy Story" threads, you know quite a few people suffer from this condition which leads to one waking up more or less conscious, but with the inability to move---traditionally attributed to a ghost or demon sitting on one's chest---and often hallucinations follow. I used to horribly suffer these as did my mom, waking up in the middle of the night screaming in terror. I've since learned the best method to get around them is to focus on one body part when you feel it coming on, and it's been a few years since I've had a serious night terror issue. But, needless to say, the generic localized name of the move removes that neat little element.

I always associated this move with Drowzee since I remember it using it the most in Red and Blue, which is quite fitting since as a Pokemon based on a creature that's said to steal dreams it could be seen as the best user of "Sleep Paralysis", the type of creature who in superstition would cause such a phenomenon. Likewise Darkrai learns it being the Nightmare Pokemon and all, and many of the other natural users are somewhat creepy Pokemon or those with occult powers. Through breeding you get some weird examples however, like Seel and Horsea, but others make sense if you think it through---Kecleon isn't creepy, but it could stand on your chest invisibly without your knowledge. Likewise as a Pokemon prominent at night Venonat could easily spread some paralyzing powder. Anyway, from a lore standpoint, this is a pretty fun move to imagine the reasoning behind each Pokemon using it.

I didn't know this, but I find it interesting because this might be the reason that you could still use the disabled move by using Sleep Talk as a workaround.
TriggerShy
Member
(10-11-2017, 09:13 PM)
Sing







Supersonic







Sonic Boom









Disable







Acid



Ally of Justice
Member
(10-11-2017, 09:15 PM)
Ally of Justice's Avatar

Originally Posted by Watch Da Birdie

Leer - Normal [Status]

As a kid that barely understood English and whose native language is Spanish, Leer was a funny but weird thing to see.
You see, in Spanish, "Leer" means "to read", and with the weird and not-so-clear animations of the first gen (I think this was a laser-beam thing), I never understood why the action of reading would lower the opponent's defense.

"Perhaps my pokemon reading lowers the opponent's guard by making them think my pokemon is not interested in the fight?"

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